Well I'm quitting until they do a hotfix for GWF and so are my friends. I'd rather play another game than hit like a wet noodle and use 40 potions per dungeon with a class that is somehow, so ****ing bad.
I am often the person with highest DPS on my GWF in T2 dungeons. The class scales well with gear but does not shine until the 40s.
I am often the person with highest DPS on my GWF in T2 dungeons. The class scales well with gear but does not shine until the 40s.
Saying it doesn't shine until 40s is the mother of all understatements
It is literally twice as bad as other classes until then. You kill stuff twice as slow (or more), you are basically carried in instances and chug pots at a double rate.
I played dozens of mmo's over the last 10 years and honestly can't remember a class being this out of tune from start to finish.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited May 2013
In tier 2 GWF often are top damage by the end of the dungeon due to the extreme amount of adds.. but until then its awkward
What I dont like is the match making system, there
This is a huge part of the problem. Random Dungeonfinder + difficult leveling dungeon = disaster.
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athrogatheMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
I hope to God this does not get nerfed. For me, this was one of the first fights I truly enjoyed since early EQ2 days.
This is add management, this is communication, this is why we are in a dungeon in the first place, to work together.
Seriously, I went into clock tower:
Noone said Hi, noone said anything. It was just 20-40 mins of buttons mashing, no challenge, no nothing. I just felt sad afterwards. I hope the encounters get harder in the way that you need to work together and focus on adds and other stuff during a fight.
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athrogatheMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
I hope to God this does not get nerfed. For me, this was one of the first fights I truly enjoyed since early EQ2 days.
This is add management, this is communication, this is why we are in a dungeon in the first place, to work together.
Seriously, I went into clock tower:
Noone said Hi, noone said anything. It was just 20-40 mins of buttons mashing, no challenge, no nothing. I just felt sad afterwards. I hope the encounters get harder in the way that you need to work together and focus on adds and other stuff during a fight.
This does not work with random people you'll never meet again. It works with cohesive, pre-made groups, and it CAN work with randoms, but more often than not randoms do not care and will not work with you.
Thats not my point, disregarding your asinine advice, the problem is its boring, the same fight over and over again and it takes to long, alright not enough dps, so we should kick all GWF out of parties in favor of more tanks. Makes sense.
Or get better, that is also some sound advice, wiped at 20% because there was 15 elites including one that couldnt be crowd controlled + the boss, but get better is the tip of the day.
These dungeons need more thought, the encounter should be about the BOSS not how many freaking adds he can spawn at 25/50/75/90% intervals of his life. If the boss needs more adds to be hard, the boss itself is not hard, throwing infinite amount of bodies at the 5 man player party is the challenge.
And since every boss so far does this, it means every boss is exactly the same.
I agree with you entirely, I love the game but am getting sick and tired of all the adds on bosses (it's not always just bosses either). And, for me, the main problem is that I play solo, accompanied only by my companion. I'm not so bothered when it is skirmishes or something where you are in a group (although being a cleric I always get all the aggro) but this game is supposed to be playable solo + companion for ordinary gameplay, yet the bosses seem to be designed for groups. It's beginning to put me off now that I am 30+ and I am losing interest. One tougher boss would be better than a hundreds of monsters all bashing at me at once. Pots and heals, even best aggressive spells, all on timers that are far too slow and there's no way a solo char can get on top of the mob.
Maybe, if, when you died, you could come back into the fight with the life or state of play where you left it, then it might be slightly better, but beginning again from scratch means that it usually ends the same way and only sheer luck gets you through in the end after far too many tries - and by then your pots are low anyway!
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nemesis788450Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
i found that while -starting with the dragon, the wolf lady is even worse- the last bosses in dungeon become quiet difficult...what you in general need is a good "rythm" in the group of keeping adds and main seperate, keepipng everything busy, running around all the time and hit guerilla style... we managed to kill the dragon with a 4 man team... the wolf lady was harder, wiped with the first group like 4 times...second group - we found the rythm and killed her on the second try....
It's only after the boss fight that comes the exciting loot.
Disagree 100%. I usually find that I've struggled alone to finally get the boss down, finish off the mobs, then go to get my reward, which by that time, is usually not as good as something I already have. Luckily, I don't do it for the reward loot.
Well I'm quitting until they do a hotfix for GWF and so are my friends. I'd rather play another game than hit like a wet noodle and use 40 potions per dungeon with a class that is somehow, so ****ing bad.
That is one hard-hitting wet noodle, IMO. The potions thing is your cleric's fault, I'm guessing. Count the number of pots he uses on that fight.
I think the boss encounter so far (lvl 40) are great. You actually have to have a tactic before you run in and zerg them down. GJ devs!
What I dont like is the match making system, there
That's the point, LoTD isn't a lvl 40 dungeon, it's a lvl 30 dungeon. It's quite the wall of one as well. The scaling seems a bit off. You go from dungeon to skirmish without much of an issue, then you hit this one.
About half way through, my partner and I were commenting how the many many packs of adds. I said, I'm getting tired of imps (i'm the cleric).
Then we get to the dragon. About 3 wipes later, we gave up. It's just worth the time and pots to beat our head against this fight.
It's a visually cool fight, just not friendly to Pugs. And it shouldn't be this hard at 30. Maybe 60, but not at 30. It's overtuned.
And we were both 34.
Imo, this trend of increasing boss health and having waves of adds isn't that fun. In fact, looking at STorming the Keep skirmish, it's pretty boring having to chip away at health for 10 min. It's concerning to know that's what boss fights will become. A patience game.
The pirate captain boss in the skirmish definitely has too much health. Hes not hard, he just takes forever. Hes practically a tutorial boss for how easy he is to fight, but hes more like a training dummy in terms of HP.
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
See people like this can't be reason with, but I will try my best.
You are wrong, you should feel bad, and stop posting what you don't understand.
At the level of this dungeon, GWF are trash still, I don't know about higher after that because I just laughed and rerolled a Guardian.
Second off, What is my style? I'm just stating facts about why his group wiped, and you get so upset about it.
What I wanted from this game, was a Rich RPG mmo, that has the lore and one of the greatest rpg settings of all time. I wanted tons of RP options, and story driving content. I don't to just easily roll through a dungeon, but at the same time. I don't want a class. GWF, to hold back a group because the devs don't know how to balance a AOE warrior.
In a DND game, the journey to get to higher levels is apart of the lure of DnD your char sitting in a Tarven telling tells about his last adventure while waiting for the story to start rolling. It was that fun.
GWF is bad design and bad for groups at 30ish and that is Mid ****ing game tier.
1) Give it damage reduction. ****, your abilities don't do as much damage as you expect. Gonna take you longer.
6) Give the boss an enrage timer. DPS made of idiot sauce? Hit the boss or the boss will simply destroy your face and it's GG. This could also tie into the idea of a buff/item/area of effect thing that gives you extra damage on the boss.
I agree with you, but I feel like nitpicking these 2 points.
Doing less damage is functionally identical to just adding more health, you do X% of the boss' HP per hit. At face value they're both equally lame, unless you have a way to remove the damage reduction or amplify your damage to counter them. (a good example from WoW would be the one boss that is heavily armored until you drag him into lava to superheat and soften his armor)
Also, I hate enrage timers with a passion, and consider them one of the worst things to ever happen to MMOs. Group sizes are shrinking in MMOs (mainly raids) and enrage timers don't really allow for epic finales to fights where 80% of the group is dead and the last remaining few drag the fight out for longer than normal to achieve victory. Enrage timers place too much importance on DPS, (and thereby to an extent, gear) while I would rather have the emphasis be on good tactics. I guess you could say my core problem with them is they don't allow you to recover from a fight gone wrong.
I agree with you, but I feel like nitpicking these 2 points.
Doing less damage is functionally identical to just adding more health, you do X% of the boss' HP per hit. At face value they're both equally lame, unless you have a way to remove the damage reduction or amplify your damage to counter them. (a good example from WoW would be the one boss that is heavily armored until you drag him into lava to superheat and soften his armor)
Also, I hate enrage timers with a passion, and consider them one of the worst things to ever happen to MMOs. Group sizes are shrinking in MMOs (mainly raids) and enrage timers don't really allow for epic finales to fights where 80% of the group is dead and the last remaining few drag the fight out for longer than normal to achieve victory. Enrage timers place too much importance on DPS, (and thereby to an extent, gear) while I would rather have the emphasis be on good tactics. I guess you could say my core problem with them is they don't allow you to recover from a fight gone wrong.
The only point I was making is that there are multiple ways to make a fight more "interesting" that don't involve massive boss health + ridiculous adds.
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saviorgunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited May 2013
Out of the 3 pug Mad Dragons I ran, 2 of them completed the first try. On the other one, after we failed on the first try, 2 people said "this is BS, can't be done" and left.
99% of this game is so easy it's tedious and monotonous. Don't nerf the fun stuff.
Out of the 3 pug Mad Dragons I ran, 2 of them completed the first try. On the other one, after we failed on the first try, 2 people said "this is BS, can't be done" and left.
99% of this game is so easy it's tedious and monotonous. Don't nerf the fun stuff.
My group tried repeatedly and simply couldn't get past the last boss. It didn't help that we didn't have a Guardian in the group, but like I said in a previous post, even having a control wizard and GWF spamming AOE on the adds trying to kill me, they couldn't get those adds off me. I just died repeatedly until I couldn't be ressed. It's put me off of random pugs for the time being. I just don't want to go through that experience again.
That's the point, LoTD isn't a lvl 40 dungeon, it's a lvl 30 dungeon. It's quite the wall of one as well. The scaling seems a bit off. You go from dungeon to skirmish without much of an issue, then you hit this one.
About half way through, my partner and I were commenting how the many many packs of adds. I said, I'm getting tired of imps (i'm the cleric).
Then we get to the dragon. About 3 wipes later, we gave up. It's just worth the time and pots to beat our head against this fight.
It's a visually cool fight, just not friendly to Pugs. And it shouldn't be this hard at 30. Maybe 60, but not at 30. It's overtuned.
And we were both 34.
Imo, this trend of increasing boss health and having waves of adds isn't that fun. In fact, looking at STorming the Keep skirmish, it's pretty boring having to chip away at health for 10 min. It's concerning to know that's what boss fights will become. A patience game.
True.
The mad dragon, after the other is like hitting a stone wall after walking throught simple water. At some low level dungeons it was funt when a boss spawned adds(trash ones only, or maybe one or two stronger) First slow boss is the Blackdagger captains, in skirmish and if I recall good there is one also at a dungeon as last boss. Just boring, and one boss like this ok, but either no blinking, or if it blinking then give him less hp, since it is a tr copy. In mad dragon: 1st: Imps, alwasy chasing my tr, a lot of them and do way too much damage, 2nd: in then whole dungeon, 3/4 of add are teleporting al the time, even with tr it is annoying very much, and i dont want to be a tank here^^, 3rd: my Deft strike put in front of mad dragon, into he's aoe line,always, and it isnt funny, sine this ability specifi, tha always teleport tr to the back of whatever he targets. Im not gonna whine the constan tail and wings caused stun thoght, that is the less problematic. 4th: mad dragon spawns, not just regular elites, summoner, who spawn endless imp and stuff. A dungeon or ista should not like this all the time, that boss just flood you with adds. I played SWTOR and it have brilliant instas, running with 4 ppl, and 8 or 16 ppl raid. Real spawning bosses, who have more that 3-5 max mobs, who respawn once ore more, only in rainds, max lvl events, and even there, not all of the bosess do that. I really recommend amyone who likes challeging team tactiics to try out some of it, or watch a vid from them. 5th: Do not tell me that mad dragon arent overpowered, since it should be done without probles at lvlv 34+ since it is from 31 and drops 34 lvl stuff. 40th lvl players shoudnt be doing it. What it s drop that soo cool? Also a last example, the follovnig dungeon, available at lvl35 and have lvl 38 adds and loot, we killed the last boss with 2 ppl down most of the fight, me tr lvl 35 and other two were arent higher tha lvl38-39. Now that was long and epic, for that reason we did have the full geoup, but with the right tactic it was doable, and only whith that too because it have only two slow moivng elite add, and some 3 or 4 maybe, other which is just normal.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
i found that while -starting with the dragon, the wolf lady is even worse- the last bosses in dungeon become quiet difficult...what you in general need is a good "rythm" in the group of keeping adds and main seperate, keepipng everything busy, running around all the time and hit guerilla style... we managed to kill the dragon with a 4 man team... the wolf lady was harder, wiped with the first group like 4 times...second group - we found the rythm and killed her on the second try....
you dont need rhythm.
you need solid aoe so that the cleric can stop to cast once in a while. this means a well played gwf. gwf are non existent at 60.
LOL! We're in a beta!!! You're "testing" these dungeons right now!
IMHO, I find it kinda cool that dungeons aren't just a faceroll! I've been 3-maning 5-man dungeons with my 2 friends since last weekend, and it's quite a challenge! We're all on Skype coordinating one another. When our healer gets aggro, he tells us, one of us runs over and starts aggroing the mobs, we play as a team and we don't get bored doing it!
Hopefully the devs don't nerf stuff too much! Because if you don't want a challenge, and all you wanna do is faceroll your keyboard and win epics, then maybe you should go play World of Warcraft. :P
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tarizdum1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The dungeons might be just fine for hardcore veteran raiders that play with people they have known for ages. But it is killing the pug groups. Most of them dont get to finish and that leads to people not signing up anymore.
People like you ruin every good game. You don't want to have to work to find a good strategy to overcome challenges, you want instant gratification.
If you can't beat something change your strategy, don't try to ruin it for the people who actually want to have fun.
Is that what makes content challenging, me sitting here and mindlessly clicking on a mob for 15 to 20minutes?
This must be your first MMO then! I haven't played a single one that doesn't follow this brain-dead mechanic. The only thing I have seen so far of Neverwinter that really shines for me is the Foundry, which is astounding. Everything else so far is okay, but nothing outstanding.
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kenpMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
There is just so much bad in this thread I don't know where to start.
First off..The person who is bragging about GWF at higher levels. Well that is Higher levels not now. Because of the nerf they are trash tier at low levels.
He was really close at being downed. If you would have not had a GWF you could have done it. However, I'm starting to think the op was the GWF. That is the reason why you could not down them. You was holding them back.
This is not a DND type game. It is not based on story, This is a wow light clone. It is bring the class not the player..and if you did not have weaker dps you could have done it.
Be it right or wrong does not matter. I'm just trying to help you, if you are a GWF stay out of dungeons until 40+ please. Thank you for not wasting peoples time.
I am a GWF. I was in a pug party the first and only time I ran Lair of the Mad Dragon. We wiped the first time because only 1 person knew the fight. 2nd time, we decided to burn the adds as soon as they popped and have GF tank the boss. We killed the dragon on 2nd attempt.
I placed 2nd in DPS behind the Trickster Rogue in party.
In fact, every single dungeon I've been in, I've beaten (except Grey Wolf Den~ that boss is too OP with his adds), and I've placed 2nd in DPS or higher.
Don't bash on GWFs just because of their damage nerf. If you come across a player that knows how to play their GWF, that's a non-issue.
People like you ruin every good game. You don't want to have to work to find a good strategy to overcome challenges, you want instant gratification.
If you can't beat something change your strategy, don't try to ruin it for the people who actually want to have fun.
Mad Dragon lvl of difficulty for a lvl 30 character ( who may have lvl 25ish gear ) is above everything else. I reached it with 3 groups ( aprox 10 tries in total ) all unsuccessful. You have to put so much dps on neverending adds that you have no dps for the actual boss.
And the little "whelps" that in a "normal game" supose to be nothing more than annoying mobs .. **** the healers / mages if they aggro more than 2.
I have nothing against max level ultra hardcore difficuly .. but for a lvl 30 normal instance this is just wrong.
The OP is right. Do they like test content with apropriate geared characters or what?
Control the adds, the Guardians at that level can tank and can do on par damage with a GWF. The class is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, at that level and prob still be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at higher levels.
With adds being controlled, and near the same damage done. You can easily do it. SO if you had a GWF it is his fault for not being able to down it.
l2p
If the best advice you can give is kick GWF's from group than it is quite clear that both the dungeons and class are horribly broken.
You can keep posting more asinine advice but there is no defending this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
This dungeon is amazing!
N.B I have run it successfully 2/2 times, once with 1 guild mate + 3 randoms and once with 3 guildmates and 1 random.
CWs make it easier... It doesn't require a massive amount of coordination, but it does require ALL the dps to focus the adds, rather than that one guy who says 'But I was killing the boss' getting away with it.
Kill the adds ASAP and it's simple.
For people saying it's overtuned for level 30s... it's a level 34 dungeon that you CAN enter at level 30.
If you're not a particularly skilled player, and you're also underlevelled... yes, it will be tough.
Comments
I am often the person with highest DPS on my GWF in T2 dungeons. The class scales well with gear but does not shine until the 40s.
Saying it doesn't shine until 40s is the mother of all understatements
It is literally twice as bad as other classes until then. You kill stuff twice as slow (or more), you are basically carried in instances and chug pots at a double rate.
I played dozens of mmo's over the last 10 years and honestly can't remember a class being this out of tune from start to finish.
What I dont like is the match making system, there
This is a huge part of the problem. Random Dungeonfinder + difficult leveling dungeon = disaster.
This is add management, this is communication, this is why we are in a dungeon in the first place, to work together.
Seriously, I went into clock tower:
Noone said Hi, noone said anything. It was just 20-40 mins of buttons mashing, no challenge, no nothing. I just felt sad afterwards. I hope the encounters get harder in the way that you need to work together and focus on adds and other stuff during a fight.
+1. Even more so, I have no clue when I'm too high a level for a dungeon and therefore cannot que anymore.
This does not work with random people you'll never meet again. It works with cohesive, pre-made groups, and it CAN work with randoms, but more often than not randoms do not care and will not work with you.
Or get better, that is also some sound advice, wiped at 20% because there was 15 elites including one that couldnt be crowd controlled + the boss, but get better is the tip of the day.
These dungeons need more thought, the encounter should be about the BOSS not how many freaking adds he can spawn at 25/50/75/90% intervals of his life. If the boss needs more adds to be hard, the boss itself is not hard, throwing infinite amount of bodies at the 5 man player party is the challenge.
And since every boss so far does this, it means every boss is exactly the same.
I agree with you entirely, I love the game but am getting sick and tired of all the adds on bosses (it's not always just bosses either). And, for me, the main problem is that I play solo, accompanied only by my companion. I'm not so bothered when it is skirmishes or something where you are in a group (although being a cleric I always get all the aggro) but this game is supposed to be playable solo + companion for ordinary gameplay, yet the bosses seem to be designed for groups. It's beginning to put me off now that I am 30+ and I am losing interest. One tougher boss would be better than a hundreds of monsters all bashing at me at once. Pots and heals, even best aggressive spells, all on timers that are far too slow and there's no way a solo char can get on top of the mob.
Maybe, if, when you died, you could come back into the fight with the life or state of play where you left it, then it might be slightly better, but beginning again from scratch means that it usually ends the same way and only sheer luck gets you through in the end after far too many tries - and by then your pots are low anyway!
That is one hard-hitting wet noodle, IMO. The potions thing is your cleric's fault, I'm guessing. Count the number of pots he uses on that fight.
About half way through, my partner and I were commenting how the many many packs of adds. I said, I'm getting tired of imps (i'm the cleric).
Then we get to the dragon. About 3 wipes later, we gave up. It's just worth the time and pots to beat our head against this fight.
It's a visually cool fight, just not friendly to Pugs. And it shouldn't be this hard at 30. Maybe 60, but not at 30. It's overtuned.
And we were both 34.
Imo, this trend of increasing boss health and having waves of adds isn't that fun. In fact, looking at STorming the Keep skirmish, it's pretty boring having to chip away at health for 10 min. It's concerning to know that's what boss fights will become. A patience game.
Maybe you've never played a mmorpg before.
I agree with you, but I feel like nitpicking these 2 points.
Doing less damage is functionally identical to just adding more health, you do X% of the boss' HP per hit. At face value they're both equally lame, unless you have a way to remove the damage reduction or amplify your damage to counter them. (a good example from WoW would be the one boss that is heavily armored until you drag him into lava to superheat and soften his armor)
Also, I hate enrage timers with a passion, and consider them one of the worst things to ever happen to MMOs. Group sizes are shrinking in MMOs (mainly raids) and enrage timers don't really allow for epic finales to fights where 80% of the group is dead and the last remaining few drag the fight out for longer than normal to achieve victory. Enrage timers place too much importance on DPS, (and thereby to an extent, gear) while I would rather have the emphasis be on good tactics. I guess you could say my core problem with them is they don't allow you to recover from a fight gone wrong.
The only point I was making is that there are multiple ways to make a fight more "interesting" that don't involve massive boss health + ridiculous adds.
Click the word that in this post. Then tell me we don't hit at all or that we need 342389429 potions. I think I use maybe 2?
99% of this game is so easy it's tedious and monotonous. Don't nerf the fun stuff.
My group tried repeatedly and simply couldn't get past the last boss. It didn't help that we didn't have a Guardian in the group, but like I said in a previous post, even having a control wizard and GWF spamming AOE on the adds trying to kill me, they couldn't get those adds off me. I just died repeatedly until I couldn't be ressed. It's put me off of random pugs for the time being. I just don't want to go through that experience again.
True.
The mad dragon, after the other is like hitting a stone wall after walking throught simple water. At some low level dungeons it was funt when a boss spawned adds(trash ones only, or maybe one or two stronger) First slow boss is the Blackdagger captains, in skirmish and if I recall good there is one also at a dungeon as last boss. Just boring, and one boss like this ok, but either no blinking, or if it blinking then give him less hp, since it is a tr copy. In mad dragon: 1st: Imps, alwasy chasing my tr, a lot of them and do way too much damage, 2nd: in then whole dungeon, 3/4 of add are teleporting al the time, even with tr it is annoying very much, and i dont want to be a tank here^^, 3rd: my Deft strike put in front of mad dragon, into he's aoe line,always, and it isnt funny, sine this ability specifi, tha always teleport tr to the back of whatever he targets. Im not gonna whine the constan tail and wings caused stun thoght, that is the less problematic. 4th: mad dragon spawns, not just regular elites, summoner, who spawn endless imp and stuff. A dungeon or ista should not like this all the time, that boss just flood you with adds. I played SWTOR and it have brilliant instas, running with 4 ppl, and 8 or 16 ppl raid. Real spawning bosses, who have more that 3-5 max mobs, who respawn once ore more, only in rainds, max lvl events, and even there, not all of the bosess do that. I really recommend amyone who likes challeging team tactiics to try out some of it, or watch a vid from them. 5th: Do not tell me that mad dragon arent overpowered, since it should be done without probles at lvlv 34+ since it is from 31 and drops 34 lvl stuff. 40th lvl players shoudnt be doing it. What it s drop that soo cool? Also a last example, the follovnig dungeon, available at lvl35 and have lvl 38 adds and loot, we killed the last boss with 2 ppl down most of the fight, me tr lvl 35 and other two were arent higher tha lvl38-39. Now that was long and epic, for that reason we did have the full geoup, but with the right tactic it was doable, and only whith that too because it have only two slow moivng elite add, and some 3 or 4 maybe, other which is just normal.
you dont need rhythm.
you need solid aoe so that the cleric can stop to cast once in a while. this means a well played gwf. gwf are non existent at 60.
IMHO, I find it kinda cool that dungeons aren't just a faceroll! I've been 3-maning 5-man dungeons with my 2 friends since last weekend, and it's quite a challenge! We're all on Skype coordinating one another. When our healer gets aggro, he tells us, one of us runs over and starts aggroing the mobs, we play as a team and we don't get bored doing it!
Hopefully the devs don't nerf stuff too much! Because if you don't want a challenge, and all you wanna do is faceroll your keyboard and win epics, then maybe you should go play World of Warcraft. :P
If you can't beat something change your strategy, don't try to ruin it for the people who actually want to have fun.
I placed 2nd in DPS behind the Trickster Rogue in party.
In fact, every single dungeon I've been in, I've beaten (except Grey Wolf Den~ that boss is too OP with his adds), and I've placed 2nd in DPS or higher.
Don't bash on GWFs just because of their damage nerf. If you come across a player that knows how to play their GWF, that's a non-issue.
Mad Dragon lvl of difficulty for a lvl 30 character ( who may have lvl 25ish gear ) is above everything else. I reached it with 3 groups ( aprox 10 tries in total ) all unsuccessful. You have to put so much dps on neverending adds that you have no dps for the actual boss.
And the little "whelps" that in a "normal game" supose to be nothing more than annoying mobs .. **** the healers / mages if they aggro more than 2.
I have nothing against max level ultra hardcore difficuly .. but for a lvl 30 normal instance this is just wrong.
The OP is right. Do they like test content with apropriate geared characters or what?
If the best advice you can give is kick GWF's from group than it is quite clear that both the dungeons and class are horribly broken.
You can keep posting more asinine advice but there is no defending this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
N.B I have run it successfully 2/2 times, once with 1 guild mate + 3 randoms and once with 3 guildmates and 1 random.
CWs make it easier... It doesn't require a massive amount of coordination, but it does require ALL the dps to focus the adds, rather than that one guy who says 'But I was killing the boss' getting away with it.
Kill the adds ASAP and it's simple.
For people saying it's overtuned for level 30s... it's a level 34 dungeon that you CAN enter at level 30.
If you're not a particularly skilled player, and you're also underlevelled... yes, it will be tough.