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Leveling GWF Is Painful
spacejew
Member Posts: 1,044 Bounty Hunter
Is it normal to spend yourself out of being able to play the game as a GWF? I mean, literally every coin I earn is immediately transformed into potions, but I've managed to spend myself out of progressing due to this issue. This is including potions from drops and leveling.
There's just no way to avoid damage completely like the TR, and the damage is subpar. I get that it might be different at higher level in instances where your attacks have the potential to hit thirty guys at the same time, but right now at level 15 I can't imagine slogging through another twenty levels of this painful, slow leveling where I'm constantly losing tons of health with no way to avoid it. The 50% damage reduction from the tab skill helps, but it gives a damage decrease while using it? I mean really? On a class that does middling damage unless they're surrounded taking huge amounts of damage?
I can only imagine how quickly a healer will snap aggro off a GWF in an instance fight. I dare say it will be impossible to keep me alive in later dungeons.
Seems to me that my TR is able to kill a group of open world baddies faster one at a time than my GWF can as a group. Is this intended, or am I doomed to a slow solo grind of being broke to reach end game dungeons that TR are capable of tanking?
It's obvious what the developers intended the classes for, it just seems like GWF is a niche that doesn't need filling with mechanics that work against it.
The way I see things:
Tank = Hold aggro on main boss
Healer = Heal everyone and kite all the add's while DPSing
Rogue = Burn the boss, burn the add's, avoid death
Mage = Control add's as they group on on the cleric
GWF = Burn add's that the mage gathers
Seems really straight forward on paper, but in reality it just seems like GWF is seriously lacking in it's ability to destroy the add's. Some of the things are counter-intuitive, like the tab skill reducing your damage but increasing attack rate, or the fact that hitting multiple targets reduces your damage. These things should increase the damage done by the GWF. Maybe the speed increase on your attacks make up for the reduced damage. Maybe the innate ability to get a damage buff if you hit more than three targets helps too. It just doesn't seem to.
Then again, I played a berserker in Tera which probably clouds my judgement. The funny thing is that the GWF mirrors the Tera berserker in a lot of ways. It's slow, has heavy armor that mitigates slightly more damage, and requires thought about where you use your abilities. It's just that the downsides are the same but the upsides are nonexistent. It's slow and clunky but the damage is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Who brings a class along that does nothing until the boss fight? Not a lot of groups, it would seem.
Maybe I'm just playing it wrong. Maybe I'm intended to herd up entire maps of bad guys and have one huge fight in the open world instead of going group to group. It's just frustrating to end up running back to a campfire after every fight because I'm too poor to buy more potions.
TL;DR
While the GWF might be effective far later in it's leveling than the TR while still being a subpar damage dealer most of that time, it's also a lot less fun to face tank in a dodge game.
I know, I know. I should L2P and the GWF is amazing at level 60 with great gear. I should totally be happy to endure one of the least fun classes for sixty levels to get there too. After all, this is a game. I should be grateful. There are no better alternatives to Neverwinter. It's also totally reasonable to have only one of the classes require a team. It's all good because they'll fix it later and this is just a beta. I get max damage on random dungeon queue teams so the class is fine. (Did I cover most of the bases with this paragraph?)
WTB $100 dollar 'makes GWF not suck' item from the cash shop.
EDIT:
Honestly I just had to rant to get this out of my system. I'm going to delete the GWF, roll anything else then ignore it in favor of the TR. A class that has high single target damage, high AoE damage, interupts, stuns, teleports, invulnerability for short periods, and stupid high mobility. I honestly can't think of a single thing the Rogue class lacks to make it infinitely soloable while still being a beast in instance dungeons.
I'm just kind of irritated because I loved the Berserker in Tera, which was a big slow damage dealer that actually did damage to make up for it's horrible mobility and lack of CC. You get nothing in return for being a painfully slow leveling class, except for an out of combat sprint that should have been included on every character. GWF should have an actual dodge on top of sprint. It's just...they ripped off so much from Tera and did all of it so badly. Guess I'll go back to it in a week or so, since it's actually a good game. Apparently Cryptic thinks it was too, since they ripped off so much and still managed to get it wrong.
There's just no way to avoid damage completely like the TR, and the damage is subpar. I get that it might be different at higher level in instances where your attacks have the potential to hit thirty guys at the same time, but right now at level 15 I can't imagine slogging through another twenty levels of this painful, slow leveling where I'm constantly losing tons of health with no way to avoid it. The 50% damage reduction from the tab skill helps, but it gives a damage decrease while using it? I mean really? On a class that does middling damage unless they're surrounded taking huge amounts of damage?
I can only imagine how quickly a healer will snap aggro off a GWF in an instance fight. I dare say it will be impossible to keep me alive in later dungeons.
Seems to me that my TR is able to kill a group of open world baddies faster one at a time than my GWF can as a group. Is this intended, or am I doomed to a slow solo grind of being broke to reach end game dungeons that TR are capable of tanking?
It's obvious what the developers intended the classes for, it just seems like GWF is a niche that doesn't need filling with mechanics that work against it.
The way I see things:
Tank = Hold aggro on main boss
Healer = Heal everyone and kite all the add's while DPSing
Rogue = Burn the boss, burn the add's, avoid death
Mage = Control add's as they group on on the cleric
GWF = Burn add's that the mage gathers
Seems really straight forward on paper, but in reality it just seems like GWF is seriously lacking in it's ability to destroy the add's. Some of the things are counter-intuitive, like the tab skill reducing your damage but increasing attack rate, or the fact that hitting multiple targets reduces your damage. These things should increase the damage done by the GWF. Maybe the speed increase on your attacks make up for the reduced damage. Maybe the innate ability to get a damage buff if you hit more than three targets helps too. It just doesn't seem to.
Then again, I played a berserker in Tera which probably clouds my judgement. The funny thing is that the GWF mirrors the Tera berserker in a lot of ways. It's slow, has heavy armor that mitigates slightly more damage, and requires thought about where you use your abilities. It's just that the downsides are the same but the upsides are nonexistent. It's slow and clunky but the damage is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Who brings a class along that does nothing until the boss fight? Not a lot of groups, it would seem.
Maybe I'm just playing it wrong. Maybe I'm intended to herd up entire maps of bad guys and have one huge fight in the open world instead of going group to group. It's just frustrating to end up running back to a campfire after every fight because I'm too poor to buy more potions.
TL;DR
While the GWF might be effective far later in it's leveling than the TR while still being a subpar damage dealer most of that time, it's also a lot less fun to face tank in a dodge game.
I know, I know. I should L2P and the GWF is amazing at level 60 with great gear. I should totally be happy to endure one of the least fun classes for sixty levels to get there too. After all, this is a game. I should be grateful. There are no better alternatives to Neverwinter. It's also totally reasonable to have only one of the classes require a team. It's all good because they'll fix it later and this is just a beta. I get max damage on random dungeon queue teams so the class is fine. (Did I cover most of the bases with this paragraph?)
WTB $100 dollar 'makes GWF not suck' item from the cash shop.
EDIT:
Honestly I just had to rant to get this out of my system. I'm going to delete the GWF, roll anything else then ignore it in favor of the TR. A class that has high single target damage, high AoE damage, interupts, stuns, teleports, invulnerability for short periods, and stupid high mobility. I honestly can't think of a single thing the Rogue class lacks to make it infinitely soloable while still being a beast in instance dungeons.
I'm just kind of irritated because I loved the Berserker in Tera, which was a big slow damage dealer that actually did damage to make up for it's horrible mobility and lack of CC. You get nothing in return for being a painfully slow leveling class, except for an out of combat sprint that should have been included on every character. GWF should have an actual dodge on top of sprint. It's just...they ripped off so much from Tera and did all of it so badly. Guess I'll go back to it in a week or so, since it's actually a good game. Apparently Cryptic thinks it was too, since they ripped off so much and still managed to get it wrong.
MoF/Thaum CW SS/Thaum CW IV/Protector GF SW/Combat HR SM/Destroyer GWF WK/Executioner TR DO/Faithful DC
Post edited by spacejew on
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I went through a similar phase of "WTF this GWF does rubbish damage and takes forever to kill things" then I got the Cleric companion and it got a bit easier then I worked out the best Feats to invest in and the class started to improve. I'm lvl 30 now and really enjoying it. I've tried a few other classes and most of them don't "click" for me like GWF does.
Take a look around on the t'internet for advice on Feats etc, get the Cleric companion (helps take the load off your potions) and stack as much Power you can on your gear and enchant everything (empty slots are a big waste).
If you give up with GWF then I hope you find something more to your liking.
1.) The OP is basing his wall of text on a level 15 toon.
2.). Dear OP, you get your companion at level 15-16. Get the cleric. Enjoy.
Ha ha ha ha - seriously you are saying that at level 30 GWFs can outDPS TRs and TRs have damage issues?
Really? Never heard anyone say that before, and my TR, CW and (most hilariously) my DC have outDPSed EVERY single GWF I have EVER played with in dungeon/skirmish until 35.
Of course by your 'argument' this would just mean that I am brilliant with all the other classes especially the TR
Someone needs to off-tank adds and clear them. That is you. It is a very important role. You can match or outdo CW aoe dps all the while tanking the mobs that you are killing
thats bad?
i am at level 49 atm with my GWF and i havent had any problems at all, when you get the cleric companion things get
too easy if you ask me, first time i died was at level 35 in a dungeon.
I have used restoring strike since it was available, its not a super heal but it helps and also you get nice critts with it
if you need to nuke a enemy fast, i combine it with flourish for even more burst on single target.
Got roar for aoe+knockback to gather adds + Avalance of steel for daily power, AOS alone an wipe out a pack of enemies.
And its important to spam your TAB skill as it reduces damage up to 50%, when it is activated i can stand still and spam my abilities,
i dont even need to worry about the enemies special attacks.
Just keep the mobs of your cleric companion and its a piece of cake to level.
Also you might need to check your gear stats, maybe you have to little defense or power for that matter,
after a while you get some feats that will grant you power from your defense.
Also make sure to get some critical/armorpen.
One last thing, if your health is low just use your roar to push the enemies away and buy yourself some time,
so you can pop another potion and just activate your TAB skill and go nuts.
Hope some of this helps you on your way to level 60
The tougher enemies do take you a bit longer, but they too will fall if you're using the right skills. The only time you use your basic single target attack is when there is only one thing left, and your other skills are on cooldown.
I realize my GWF is only lvl 8 at the moment. But that will change very soon.
I agree completely with this.
Yup. This is truth. In a few levels you'll be sick of looting HP, because you rarely use them except for Delves.
And that sentence really seals the fate of the class imo, in this day and age with hundreds of games out there to make a game with classes that become fun after a certain level is stupid ( if it was lvl 10 Id still accept it but **** that lvl 30 ). And telling ppl they should accept this just isnt the class for them makes no sense either. I pick the giant 2H weapon fighter in any game I play but this current one deals less dmg with his giant sword than the healer. Both my toons are lvl 6 a DC and a GWF. At this low lvl the DC can kill faster, has better aoe and single dmg, heals himself and has the same armor.. Someone might say " go play a DC then ".. well a DC doesnt have a great weapon you see.. **** I was rly hoping this would be my new MMO.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
All I know is I had zero issues getting to 30. I "died" maybe 3 or 4 times those first 30 levels and had probably 130ish lesser potions and god knows how many minors stock piled. I in fact had soooo many that I leveled my cat 10 levels straight just so I could kill my potion supply.
So anyone that has THAT big of a problem leveling clearly has no feel for the class. It needs it's tweaks, what class doesn't?, but it's a far cry from as broken as you and others are making it.
Leveling is painful but the tradeoff is a great lategame, I feel far more useful than Rogues in dungeons.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
It was very, very painful to level from 1-15. However, as the first poster after my rant said it gets better once you get a cleric companion. A lot better. As a matter of fact, it made the class playable whereas before level 16 it was pretty much the worst class experience I've had in a while. It does ok up to level 20 anyway. It's still underwelming damage but maybe that will change eventually. I think I was just approaching this class wrong, or expecting too much from it. It's an off-tank in a game where off-tanking is actually a thing. I think tanking in general is going to confuse a lot of people since it's a hybrid tank role. GF's tank bosses, GWF tank add's. They also do a little damage while tanking the add's, although I'm still not really sure who the add killer is supposed to be. It sure isn't the GWF at level 20, so maybe the mage? The thief? I don't know. TR's still level entire groups of mobs faster than I do and take less damage while doing it, and from a little reading it seems like there is a brief window where GWF does ok, then TR overtakes them again in both tanking and damage. Could be wrong, but I'll find out eventually if I can keep myself from rage quitting this character.
I decided not to delete the GWF until I got the cleric companion, and I'm glad I decided to wait because it isn't a class until you get that. If you can keep from throwing your keyboard out the window before level 16 it does get better, but you will need to realize that you will be getting your horse later than any other class from being a potion jockey until level 16. I mean seriously, I didn't drink that many potions on any other character class while leveling. It was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I spent myself dry twice on the stupid things. At this same point in leveling, my other characters had two gold. My GWF has one, for comparison. Mileage may vary.
To be fair, I'm still drinking lots of potions. It's just that now I don't need to go back to town every three encounters to buy 20 more of them. The default drops are enough to sustain me at level 20.
I still think that the GWF needs something to up the damage generation at low level, or something to mitigate the health issues a bit more. I do everything I can in Tower to hit as many targets as possible, and always try to use the best ability I can, and I am consistently in the lower two spots on the board in both kills and damage when I have competent people going along with me. That being said, at that level it seems like I can tank as well as a GF so maybe I'm trying to force a Tank shaped peg into a DPS hole here.
At first, I thought I was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, wasn't doing something right...pretty much like people described it here.
So before you dismiss my complaint by saying this is not the right class for me, could you please offer some advice and help? What to do pre-15 lvl, so that I don't simply toss the computer out of the window? Thanks.
My word is 2 handed weapon should be DPS skill tree of guardian fighter. It should be one class, warrior, that can be specced as mellee dps, with 2 handed or dualwield, and tank specc with shield, WoW warriors is perfect example of selfsufficient class, same as in DnD I was playing for warrior for ages.
P.S: Dont have problem with leveling or something, just feel not right about making 2 fighters classes from 1 DnD class
Just be patient and try to visit the local store at the market to get some gear, I believe that there was a level 10 greatsword there.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
I'm starting to get the idea that some of you aren't that bad, and are just playing like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because you feel the class is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and feel content to wallow in it so you'll have a bandwagon to jump on. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
And I'm not a great player by any means, which makes me pretty appalled that people are legitimately getting away with rants like TC's.
If only one, leftclick spam, or use the healing strike on it.
If more than one? You guessed it... Right click charge up.
And yes, you do need some potions. The GF would need them too if block wasn't perfect avoidance on everything.
Big thing I wish I had noticed early is how the mobs have several visual cues. The big red danger zone is easy to spot, but pay attention to the target ring. When it turns yellow, the mob is getting ready to use a skill/special attack. Best way to counter it is to double tap the "W" key to sprint forward a tiny bit, then spin and hit the mob in the back. Flanking is huge for a GWF; you avoid damage, and you do more damage as well. Movement is key for this class. Also, if you get a mob on each side of you, you will get worked. Keep them in front of you.
If you can learn to watch for cues, and learn to control your sprint, you'll be golden. Ogres especially have a long wind up attack, that you need to take advantage of, if you want to kill them with out using all your heal pots.
Edit: By vs I mean in comparison to other classes leveling ability. I don't care about pvp balance.
I liked the class... Too bad they made it so weak now...
Hope they fix this.
Then i went onto the forums, to see everyone QQ'ing about how GWF is so bad, i dont get it.. either you play the class terribly wrong, or your just bad at the game, seriously, if you think your class is bad, you have 2 options, stop play it, or learn to play it.
(2 level 20 GWF, and i dont see everyones problem)
However, to finish that exposition, you fail to add that he scales BETTER than other classes with gear - basically meaning that a 8k GS GWF benefits a lot more from gear than a TR with the same amount.
Also, the earlygame isn't "that" bad. I'm struggling in some areas where the bosses have self-heal mechanisms, but that's about the lvl 40 ish. I steamrolled Helm's Hold whereas it was a struggling part for my CW.
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
And this class by virtue of appearance alone is going to be a go to choice for many people for their first taste of the game.
It won't matter if the late game changes for GWF, or that the other classes offer a far difference experience, in the era of F2P, first impressions are EVERYTHING.
Stop whinning like little girl and play the game, if you say you cant then i suggest another game with that is easier to play
*note* this is for PVE only i say this as I don't PVP at all.