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Cleric AGRO
irtu
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 41
Ok the Cleric AGOR is way to High and needs to be tone DOWN alot.( and i have all ability points in reduce agro does not do a dam thing)
95% of the mobs go after the Healer even if you just stand there and do nothing, as son as they see him to go after him and if by chance you cast a healing spell to heal a player well your done.
The cleric class is going to die because no one is going to play them because of this.
next time you guys are in combat look at your healer and see where all the mobs are at, all on him.
SO Reduce the Agro on the Cleric.
95% of the mobs go after the Healer even if you just stand there and do nothing, as son as they see him to go after him and if by chance you cast a healing spell to heal a player well your done.
The cleric class is going to die because no one is going to play them because of this.
next time you guys are in combat look at your healer and see where all the mobs are at, all on him.
SO Reduce the Agro on the Cleric.
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THIS
Normal mode are suppose to be easy for PuG, but its not. How many time do I run dungeon to see the 3 dps and the tank on the boss while im Tanking every add on the planet.
End of the story
I thought that was up to the DM.
Unfortunately, dps don't switch to adds, many healers run around as if it will help, and rogues tend to have zero patience. I'm normally the second or even third one in to the fight unless I switch to full zerg mode to stay ahead of everyone. Single-target threat generation is easy. But adds to take some coordination.
I've also seen that most people don't want to have to care. It kind of makes me sick. I love the dungeons and the fight mechanics and honestly feel that they work. But so many people ignore them. They ignore their defensive abilities and ignore huge red spots on the ground warning them to MOVE! I for one hope that the game doesn't change, but rather forces the people playing it to change. I don't want easier.
as it is right now in epic dungeons i have mostly all of the aggro excluding the boss while our CW gives me time to breath/recast my buffs/shields. tanking 20+mobs is normal now for me and i feel like a healing pinball but it really works and tbh i rather have the aggro on me than on the damagedealer..
gear ~8,5k recovery>defence>power
skills sunburst, astral shield, devine glow
Running around as a cleric not only helps but is essentially required for a cleric with aggro especially if no melee is trying to get aggro. You may be able to stand in the red circle all day and live.... a cleric cannot even if specced defensively. We are not blessed with block for example.....we can dodge though. This is not your traditional mmo where a cleric is expected to stand still while a tank gets aggro off....if a cleric plays this way they better buy a lot of injury kits.
To clarify my above statement I do not have a huge issue with the way it works now.... only the suggestion that a cleric is supposed to stand there in one place and get clobbered.
I wasn't suggesting standing in one place, I was more commenting on constant movement even as I try to chase them down and pull mobs off. Of course Clerics need to move to get out of damage and use defensive abilities. But running away from the tank trying to get aggro off you is not going to be helpful.
The sooner players learn that adds are everyone but the tanks concern and that tanks should be focusing on the big hitters/boss aggression when the adds arrive,the better off we will all be.
If you are thinking of relying purely on clerics healing to scrape through dungeons then you will only be disappointed.
In the light of current cleric aggro mechanics and the mindset of a good portion of pugs to try and blitz content I've totally reworked my second DC to a non healer and specced in AOE control/damage and personal defense (some of which has innate healing ability).This second DCs survivability in group situations (and solo) has improved ten fold.
As for the rest of the groups survival chances ...... well best they start dealing with adds and boss aggro properly,use their potions,stop standing in BIG red circles,stop walking on traps,start using voice chat and most of all,give DCs a break. lol
I actually had one guy tell me today I was costing him money because he had to use healing pots and that I was a lousy healer ! He assumed because I was DC that I was healer I suppose.But the funny thing is,had I not been there would he have used as many pots ? Would he have played differently,less aggressive more cautiously ?
I too went through a lot of pots,as it seems in most pugs that the DC gets left to handle or be man handled by any adds for the duration of how long it takes the DC to kill them while the rest of the team look at the big critical numbers floating above the big bosses head.It's usually when the DCs healing starts to disappear that adds are even a concern to most others.....with crys of HEAL PLZ ringing in the dungeon.
Anyway,I went off on a tangent lol
Short version: Everyone NOT aggro tank,kill the adds please
Again I would argue you are stuck in a traditional mmo mindset where the tank runs around gathering all aggro and then everyo e else burns down a main target. This game just does not work this way. If a cleric is doing any healing they are going to get aggro and be dead if tbey stand there waiting for a tank to get aggro. Ideally we can dodge "through" a mob so all he does is turn around and melee are still in ok shape, but that is not always reasonable. In addition it is not really the boss that is usually the issue it is all the adds. The tank needs to stick with boss and dps should be helping burn down adds.
There are 3 different types of mobs in the game. The small normal nameplate mobs that die in like 3 swings of anyones weapon, the grey bar "champion" mobs that have a harder hitting ability that need to be controlled more and the "big bar" boss type monsters that the tank needs to keep busy.
Ambient AoE will kill most of the small bar mobs without issue. DPS needs to burn down the grey "champion" mobs while the tank does a bit of agro on them to attempt to hold them, and then the tank needs to focus mostly on the BIG bar type, the elites or the bosses. The sooner the DPS learn this, the better off everyone will be. This game is not a giant "pull everything into the corner and AoE" fest that the other games have become, it is D&D at its core.
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I think you idenified the #1 problem with current aggro mechanics and that is the players. I run into those that complain about pot useage also. They just need to understand that is nature of game. A DC can often be difference between life and death, but you need to expect a cleric is not just a mindless healbot as in some games we just do not have that much power as a healer.....on the other hand we do a lot of healing while also putting out ok damage.
Griffeth - GW Fighter - Beholder Shard
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No, I'm not. I think I already stated that dps needs to switch to adds and burn them down. What I'm stating is that many groups I have been in, the cleric never stops moving and totally disregards someone trying to kill or get adds off them. Healing is difficult in this game, but it's a team effort. I have 2 aoe skills I use that both have knockdowns. One of them has a bit of a wind-up time. You know how hard that is to land with a cleric that won't stop moving? Nearly impossible.
Moving is good. Too much moving is bad. Moving at the wrong times is even worse. Clerics on the run was just one small part of what I said. I still think the main problem is the zerg mindset and not actual game mechanics.
I don't have this ability yet but I already know its going to get me huge threat. My GF is my main and level 31, already I can tell I'm having an easier time tanking things and holding aggro. There are plenty of things I plan to use when I unlock them to be even better at tanking. Yet I don't see it smart for me to tank everything. Just ran the level 30 dungeon for the first time. If I hold everything the mobs eat me up. Even with a healer pet, pure tank feats and decent gear it doesn't seem wise for me to try and WoW tank this game.
I use to hate not being able to hold aggro. Now I just try and hold aggro on most things/the most important things.
This actually applies in MOST MMOs? In both LOTRO and Runes Of Magic, the DPS toons were responsible for taking down the adds and taking the adds off the healer. As a healer, I was always told to run to to the tank (as opposed to the opposite direction) so they had a chance to the get agro back.
I did my first skirmish last night - against the Orcs. One other toon died and I was dodging my life away. It was a PUG but the DPS didn't take the trash, and went in opposite directions to each other to see who could get the most kills. Adds, what adds. Chaos reigns.
Herp derp I'll just stand there and get 2-shot.
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I wish it was that simple, as a CW I do my best to look out for the cleric but I'd laugh if you say we'd actually have the capabilities to significantly CC a mass of mobs. Sure we can do the nice big aoe black hole to gather things to be aoe'd but that won't stop all the ranged mobs or mobs with instant spammable dashes from just salvo'ing people to death anyway.
And adds to not die fast enough, atleast not with just me killing them. I can maybe stunlock 5 mobs for like 4-5 seconds tops, or stunlock a single target for a good 10 seconds. If every single add was melee perhaps I could actually do a good enough job by just kiting them with slows/knockbacks but that's not how it works. A ton of adds are ranged, or just move and attack so fast kiting doesn't do a thing.
I had one boss fight where nothing but ranged mobs were spawning non-stop, we even had 2 CW's in the group constantly rotating singularities and aoe'ing them down as fast as we could, completely ignoring the boss (or trying to pull them ONTO the boss). The cleric still b*tched at us that he was spamming pots and we need to focus the adds. Alright, let's pull the rogue off the boss to help kill the non stop spawning adds and then make the fight last an hour long shall we?
It's just stupid how this whole thing works IMO. I get what they were going for and it's interesting and all but the execution just didn't work.
I really want to do my job right, but I feel like I can't, TBH the only useful thing I can do is singularity to make aoe'ing mobs a little more convenient, or debuffing and dps'ing a boss to kill them a lot faster.
From what I have seen so far there are very few boss fights or large trash pulls where the cleric is able to stand still for very long at all if they want to stay alive, mainly due to the amount of extra agro they seem to command.
I usually try and blink through the dps though rather than running them off to the other side of the room. That way the mobs sometimes get in front of them when they are tunnel visioning the boss and then get some of their damage.
Can sometimes appear I am just running them away I guess though... if ground aoe's get outta control and I try to move around rather than through them when blink is not possible.
And if anyone whines at a cleric about having to use potions just tell them tough luck and that you probably have to use more potions than they do since you get 40% less heals. Most stupid idea I ever heard of btw, that healing nerf should not be active in dungeons and skirmishes since it was done so that clerics didn't earn extra gold when leveling compared to other classes.
Yes it's tought, yes I have to concentrate more but the pay off from the sheer amount of enjoyment and actual feeling of accomplishment when I make sure no one dies? That's just glorious! The only problem I really have is when the tank tries to aggro the small adds too much. Nearly wiped a dungeon because he didn't aggro the boss so he kept jumping to me. And if my dodge wasn't ready, well then I'd lose half my health (bear in mind I still had add aggro aswell). If the DPS just takes out some adds now and then, preferably the big ones, then it really isn't such a big problem because clerics can deal with a bunch of adds ourselves because our AOE heals aswell as knockbacks (if we use divinity).
And I'm thinking the farther we get in, the more people notice they have to go for the adds as DPS so it'll probably get easier anyways. Communities got a way with making unspoken rules that just gets followed.
direct you to there. please let us all know if this fixed aggro issues
This is true in most PnP games. But as a DM myself, I can attest that we even try for the cleric harder because we know. Then again, it also depends on the int scores of the monsters. I know goblins are to stupid to know, so they go for whoever is closest, but as a Gnoll or perhaps something with at least an int score of 7, they know to go after clerics harder than the rest.
I have the same issues. I cant do the mad dragon dungeon becuase every imp and demon in the area is chasing me around hitting me and I cant heal so we get wiped all the time. Even if the team knows and covers me, and I just stand there, they still focus on me with all their might, and I dont even have the chance to attack or heal, yet I still have the aggro...something really does need to be done.
> http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?207641-Fix-for-cleric-threat
Even with soothe, I generate aggro by just standing around in boss fights. I cant tell you how many times my dps clears a room and they go into beating on the boss, I do nothing....NOTHING and I still pull aggro. Soothe helps, yes, but not enough, either that, or that 30% is actually about 5%.
That said, it'd be nice if DD classes actually assisted in taking care of adds what right now I don't see much off... I generally need to hang near the boss before anything gets done and you're talking about the healer here... I've gone down to 30% HP before others have even bothered to help but unfortunately this is just the folly of a system where random people are partied together and seem to not care that the healer is about to die nor how badly that'd effect the entire party.
We play as clerics too, we know of those skills, but having to use certain skills in certain fashions makes our build choices rather limited. If they would fix agro for clerics, it would help alot for everyone. I for one dont like pulling aggro for just existing.
And honestly, Ive been the reason for a few wipes myself on purpose. I died, the team got wiped, they noticed they needed to defend the cleric and we won after that. Sometimes you just need to remind them of whats important.