There's a problem with that though. You say these specialties make the cooldown shorter, or targeting faster etc. But faster than what? These are the base classes in Neverwinter, not specialties.
Basically, what are cool choices to make in 4e appear at this point to be the standard one way to do things in Neverwinter. If you know what I mean.
That is assuming I understand what the premise of the classes are. Sorry if this sounds like bitching or something. It's not. Just trying to understand the concept of the classes.
If you are lost, Selune can guide you to the right path. That is her domain too.
0
bloodsuckingparasiteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
First, I feel like I should mention that I attempted to read through this entire thread and comprehend everything before making a post. Second, ermmm... derp? Anyways...
Character Custimization:
I was looking through multiple 4e classes and builds such as druid and fighter (I like druids ) I saw all the abilities and at-will powers players could pick and it seemed alien to me. Mainly because I'm used to the loosely based 3.5e MMO DDO. So my guess is that we will have a lot of custimization, but those custimization options will be serperated into the classes, which makes it seem like less when it could in fact be more.
I've played DDO since 2006, so that with NWN 1&2 is the extent of DnD knowledge, but I'm still open to new ways to go about builds. One of the things I liked about DDO was that you could make a min-max DPS or create a character good enough for any situation, but you could only access certain skills or attaint optimum performance if you crossclassed. For example, archers in DDO could only max out their DPS if they had at least 6 levels of monk for a certain ability. Here it seems like we won't have to multiclass to attain the same power levels, not just because we can't, but because it'd be unnecessary. 4e has "multiclass feats" so we can meet qualifications for other things (as far as I know from my Google-fu) and abilities.
Neverwinter as an MMO:
Something I feel like people should understand is that this game is based on 4e, that doesn't mean it is 4e. DDO tried to stick to 3.5 and couldn't fully do it. So class abilities and such may be changed from what they are in the actual PnP game. Cryptic will have to rebalance abilities later on in the game's life, that happens in every MMO that I'm aware of.
ehhhh that's all my limited brain can think of at the moment, I'll have more to say after my classes.
Letting the players have an ultimate option to create any char imaginable does not restrict all chars to the same build. In the contrary, it will increase the number of possible solutions.
Devs should not attempt to control the role distribution. Players should do that. You may stick labels on a build that say something about survivabilty/dmg ratio, preferred combat range, available group buffs/controls.
Role playing requires a free customization of all your abilites and delis.
I agree with this entirely. Unfortunately D&D has never been exactly about flexbility and 4ed perhaps less than other editions since you can't even have true multiclassing, but rather a limited version through a special one time feat. This is the sort of reason why I used to delve heavily into house rules and homebrewed systems back in my PnP days--to add more extensive character building and customization options. But coming to a game based on (or inspired by) D&D I was already expecting that sort of limitations.
Still, I have concerns about how much customizability this game will over in terms of ability selection. Though, I suppose it may allow some through some sort of feat selection and such so I'll have to wait and see. But the current class themes seem kinda pigeonholy (yeah, I totally made up that word ), in a way that it seems like no matter what sort of feats I'd take for say... a trickster rogue... at the end of the day I'm still gonna be some trickster rogue variant, which is already a variant of a rogue. So just by taking a class it seems like you get strapped down a very specialized path (even more so than plain "Fighter", "Rogue", etc.).
I find this distressing as I am an OOOOOOLD school D&D and then AD&D player. hir edition was the most customizing D&D game, and I could and id build a 2nd story rogue who needed a henchman to be a safe cracker. I could build a dex based fighter or a brute! I am accustom to games where I get to choose where my lvl advancement takes me. If it isn't good enough I can always start over.
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons have one of the biggest and most complex systems for customizing ones character. From multiclassing over advanced classes. Skill points and more.
What I am getting at is a fear that the current class system is FAR too resticted? The fact that your a "guardian warrior" or a "trickster rogue" is limiting the freedom players have to customize ones toon.
It may be I have missed a few important informations conserning character creation / lvling.. and if so I would really appreciate the knowledge. Whe I first hear there would be a D&D MMO (a new one) I was excited.. but must admit I am started to get really worried.. customization is not just how you look... it is the aspect of the toon you play.
If you are forcing me to chose between 4 predetermined character "types" (eg. trickster rogue) Then you are losing one of the most important aspects of the D&D universe.. the freedom of creativity.
I for one might chose not to play with such limitations. I would rather play DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) eventho it is getting REALLY old......
Please enlighten me.
- N.
there are 4 classes, but then you flesh them out using the feat points, and each class has 3 builds. so even though I chose a "tank" as my main build, through feats and skills, I can basically make a shielded DPS character.
AD&D had a ton of classes (but most were vanilla classes that then specialized or multi-classed), but that game also had 30 years to flesh them out!!
i think it's a safe bet that as NW shapes up and evolves we will see prestige classes, multi-classes and all the things we recall from the TT show up.
like end game content, you gotta give this game some time, it's impossible to release this type of game with everything from the TT version, then remember to account for all the Forgotten Realms lore, it has got to be overwhelming as a dev sometimes with a project like this, especially when you consider the history behind it.
I play Mechwarrior Online, and that game has the same issue of TT fans wanting things to translate...D&D is a different animal than Battletech, but there are just some things that won't translate from the TT medium to digital. Think Psionics. I was pretty surprised that Psionics aren't in the game...at least for now.
I think they should have made the base classes and had real feats not a WoW style talent trees called feats. Through feats we would be able to chose if our Fighter is sword and shield style like the current Guardian or uses 2h, or even dual wield. This isn't impossible to do in a MMO and many computer games have pulled it off with older DnDs, I keep hearing how 4E is basically a MMO anyway so it should have been even easier. My only hope is that they work in more skills to chose from or paragon paths that are hybrids to fill the multi-class itch but I'm not holding my breath.
It's a shame because the game is good, they did a great job on the lore and it does feel like I'm in the sword coast. This could have been a very good DnD game but the classes just feel so out of place, it just doesn't feel right at all.
0
direcrowBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Are people spoiled so much now days that they have to resort to "give me all content at launch or GTFO!"
When every promotion, and Facebook update includes a cheap shill for a $200 founders pack before most people even play the game, yeah people expect a full game.
Notice how only gamers, to you, can be greedy. Like PWE and Cryptic aren't saying "gimme all your money before launch"!
Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
I admit I wish I had a bit more control, but I don't want it if it means <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the balance of what we have now. Honestly I am going to have to wait and see how things shake out in the next six months, before I make a final determination, even then having lived through "NGE" and FPS combat in STO I'm gun-shy about change.
When every promotion, and Facebook update includes a cheap shill for a $200 founders pack before most people even play the game, yeah people expect a full game.
Notice how only gamers, to you, can be greedy. Like PWE and Cryptic aren't saying "gimme all your money before launch"!
Apropos to nothing, but have you ever made a positive post about this game or Cryptic/PWE?
My apologies to the OP. You've made the same mistake that so many others have made. You saw Neverwinter, and DnD, and were under the false impression that you would see a DnD game and probably had visions of NWN 1 and 2 dancing in your head.
Sorry....but this is nothing like those, except that Cryptic did the same thing so many other gaming companies do these days...buy the license to a IP and then exploit it.
If I havent offended you today....dont worry!!!....there's always tomorrow. Of course, you could also go to here for all I care.
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons have one of the biggest and most complex systems for customizing ones character. From multiclassing over advanced classes. Skill points and more.
What I am getting at is a fear that the current class system is FAR too resticted? The fact that your a "guardian warrior" or a "trickster rogue" is limiting the freedom players have to customize ones toon.
It may be I have missed a few important informations conserning character creation / lvling.. and if so I would really appreciate the knowledge. Whe I first hear there would be a D&D MMO (a new one) I was excited.. but must admit I am started to get really worried.. customization is not just how you look... it is the aspect of the toon you play.
If you are forcing me to chose between 4 predetermined character "types" (eg. trickster rogue) Then you are losing one of the most important aspects of the D&D universe.. the freedom of creativity.
I for one might chose not to play with such limitations. I would rather play DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) eventho it is getting REALLY old......
Please enlighten me.
- N.
This is 4e not 2e, 3.0, or 3.5 or pathfinder...this is the way 4e delt with the classes... its something have to get use to because its true to the actual pen and paper game.
Comments
I can say a lot of MMO's use feat trees to specialize. And that's ALL I can say ATM.
I much prefer Baldur's gate over NWN series, but I prefer Icewind Dale over BG.
However, Planescape Torment pawns all.
I have a question for you. Who came first Mort, or Bob the Skull?
Edit: Or maybe they are both the same skull!
Its obvious, Selune came first and all others followed.
I think you lost me. You mean the goddess?
If you are lost, Selune can guide you to the right path. That is her domain too.
Character Custimization:
I was looking through multiple 4e classes and builds such as druid and fighter (I like druids
I've played DDO since 2006, so that with NWN 1&2 is the extent of DnD knowledge, but I'm still open to new ways to go about builds. One of the things I liked about DDO was that you could make a min-max DPS or create a character good enough for any situation, but you could only access certain skills or attaint optimum performance if you crossclassed. For example, archers in DDO could only max out their DPS if they had at least 6 levels of monk for a certain ability. Here it seems like we won't have to multiclass to attain the same power levels, not just because we can't, but because it'd be unnecessary. 4e has "multiclass feats" so we can meet qualifications for other things (as far as I know from my Google-fu) and abilities.
Neverwinter as an MMO:
Something I feel like people should understand is that this game is based on 4e, that doesn't mean it is 4e. DDO tried to stick to 3.5 and couldn't fully do it. So class abilities and such may be changed from what they are in the actual PnP game. Cryptic will have to rebalance abilities later on in the game's life, that happens in every MMO that I'm aware of.
ehhhh that's all my limited brain can think of at the moment, I'll have more to say after my classes.
I agree with this entirely. Unfortunately D&D has never been exactly about flexbility and 4ed perhaps less than other editions since you can't even have true multiclassing, but rather a limited version through a special one time feat. This is the sort of reason why I used to delve heavily into house rules and homebrewed systems back in my PnP days--to add more extensive character building and customization options. But coming to a game based on (or inspired by) D&D I was already expecting that sort of limitations.
Still, I have concerns about how much customizability this game will over in terms of ability selection. Though, I suppose it may allow some through some sort of feat selection and such so I'll have to wait and see. But the current class themes seem kinda pigeonholy
The only Moon Goddess I follow is Eilistraee :cool: (I heard they killed her off at some point but I refuse to accept that
there are 4 classes, but then you flesh them out using the feat points, and each class has 3 builds. so even though I chose a "tank" as my main build, through feats and skills, I can basically make a shielded DPS character.
AD&D had a ton of classes (but most were vanilla classes that then specialized or multi-classed), but that game also had 30 years to flesh them out!!
i think it's a safe bet that as NW shapes up and evolves we will see prestige classes, multi-classes and all the things we recall from the TT show up.
like end game content, you gotta give this game some time, it's impossible to release this type of game with everything from the TT version, then remember to account for all the Forgotten Realms lore, it has got to be overwhelming as a dev sometimes with a project like this, especially when you consider the history behind it.
I play Mechwarrior Online, and that game has the same issue of TT fans wanting things to translate...D&D is a different animal than Battletech, but there are just some things that won't translate from the TT medium to digital. Think Psionics. I was pretty surprised that Psionics aren't in the game...at least for now.
It's a shame because the game is good, they did a great job on the lore and it does feel like I'm in the sword coast. This could have been a very good DnD game but the classes just feel so out of place, it just doesn't feel right at all.
When every promotion, and Facebook update includes a cheap shill for a $200 founders pack before most people even play the game, yeah people expect a full game.
Notice how only gamers, to you, can be greedy. Like PWE and Cryptic aren't saying "gimme all your money before launch"!
The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
Alice L'ddell - Human GF
Ludovique - Tiefling DC
Apropos to nothing, but have you ever made a positive post about this game or Cryptic/PWE?
Yeah I would love that, I use to love playing a Psionist back in the day.
Sorry....but this is nothing like those, except that Cryptic did the same thing so many other gaming companies do these days...buy the license to a IP and then exploit it.
This is 4e not 2e, 3.0, or 3.5 or pathfinder...this is the way 4e delt with the classes... its something have to get use to because its true to the actual pen and paper game.