I have never, not once, felt any item was a requirement other than bags. That alone isn't enough for me to be upset.
Most of the rants you hear are from people who want every single items in the shop, etc.
and bags alone make the cash shop inmensely stupid and overpriced. even if the rest of items were valued to perfection (which they are light years away of being), simply the bags would be the dealbreaker here.
There's no need for healthstones. None.
There's no need to be on a prettier or rarer horse.
good.
now, the other 90% of the stuff you tried to hide...oh sorry, I mean, that you somehow "forgot" to mention, because obviously you dont have a hidden agenda here, right?
the horses arent just prettier or rarer, but also faster
far better companions that represent an inmense boost to your stats and gameplay flow
top level ehchantments that grant a measurable amount of difference in power between those who have them and those who dont
respects that offer you a great deal of versatility, chances to experiment with what works best for you, and allow you to undo a mistake that otherwise you'll have to live with forever.
The system in place hurts people who can't manage their resources. I won't say it doesn't.
the system in place hurst people that are used to a certain amount of quality of life standards from better valued f2p games, or p2p games.
it doesnt hurt people that are hellbent in playing the game 100% for free and never, ever, ever spend a single dollar
it doesnt hurt people that intend to spend several hundred dollars per month
it hurts people looking to get an experience similar to what other games offer for a decent price, because that represents a "decent" price elsewhere, falls hilariously short here
The game was designed to play without the consumables in the cash shop. That's what people complaining neglect. Yes you can spend a bunch of money on instant heal potions. You don't need them to do good.
and again, a mention to the health potions that noone has ever complained about, and a "strage" omission of all the other things that people have mentioned over and over again
strawmans...tsk tsk...not classy, dear moderator. not classy
the game was designed to be much less enjoyable without the consumables in the cash shop, and the inconveniences and the wearing out of the fun scalate as you progress further. It wouldnt surprise me if PWI had a team of psychologists almost as big as their team of coders.
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w01fe01Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited May 2013
i just want to say thankyou to the people who replied calmly and constructively to my post. im gonna give it a go and see how i fare, tho id love some tips on making AD
rather it was me worrying that id have to use the cash shop in its current form just to get by, at 21 i only have 4k astrals (all i do to make money is quests and sell items on AH that i find) and most of it has been from praying. ive spent maybe 1k thus far if that.
On my way to level 60, and in the past few days of being at the cap, I have never felt a requirement to spend money. I still use the free companion you get a level 16 instead of the ones that came with the founder packs. I do have the mount, but I have never had to ride very far so I imagine the free, slightly slower mount will do. I did buy a bag because I'm a packrat and didn't really know whether I would need/want those rank 1 and 2 runes later on (I didn't), so I had way too much stuff with me. I also have not touched the ADs I got from the packs. I, in fact, have not even claimed them yet.
I have a bunch of alts who are around 20, and I have not bought anything for them, nor do I plan to at this point. I genuinely do feel that you can perfectly play the game for free and will not hit a wall where you have to pay or can't further progress. The best gear in the game all drops in dungeons or is earned by doing PvP. The PvP maps are very small and it's more about being where you need to be than about getting there two seconds faster. (It may actually be an advantage to get there a second later.)
i just want to say thankyou to the people who replied calmly and constructively to my post. im gonna give it a go and see how i fare, tho id love some tips on making AD
Rish or something like that , gives daily quest that reward AD . If you did the sewer quest , you took an idol to him . he then explained dailies . 10k - 15k depending on your level , might even go higher I just made 40 this morning .
Rish or something like that , gives daily quest that reward AD . If you did the sewer quest , you took an idol to him . he then explained dailies . 10k - 15k depending on your level , might even go higher I just made 40 this morning .
Don't even have to go to him.
Hit the K key, it will open the queue window. Click the home tab at the top left. Once on the screen, in the bottom right will be a Daily Window. Click it, and it will open the daily quest guys convo box and you can accept them all that way. Take his quest, do them, profit.
Also to make AD, sell blues on the ah. Use the greens for gold since you will need some gold to buy a mount and what not. Explore EVERYWHERE. They hide a LOT of stuff in the maps of this game. Hidden chest are a great way to get things. Even the story indoor maps have hidden paths. Don't just follow the glowy line. It leads you from point A to point Z but skips all the middle stuff.
I'll agree that most things in the shop are way overpriced, but you act as if we should get it for free. This is pretty standard of F2P games and there are worse examples. Further more, you absolutely need nothing from the cash shop to be able to play the game. In fact there's very little that will add to your character in terms of both PvP and PvE. By throwing some cash at the game you'll only have to grind less, and that's it. Time vs money.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
and again, a mention to the health potions that noone has ever complained about, and a "strage" omission of all the other things that people have mentioned over and over again
strawmans...tsk tsk...not classy, dear moderator. not classy
the game was designed to be much less enjoyable without the consumables in the cash shop, and the inconveniences and the wearing out of the fun scalate as you progress further. It wouldnt surprise me if PWI had a team of psychologists almost as big as their team of coders.
On the contrary the most common complaint about the cash shop being pay to win has been about the health stones.
There is nothing, and I repeat nothing, in the shop which is a requirement to have fun. The only thing I feel I need more of is inventory space.
And that is where my argument lays. It's not based on prices or any hidden agenda, only by the items within the shop. They aren't needed by any stretch of the imagination to enjoy the game. I happened to use health stones as an example but there is nothing other than perhaps inventory slots which are required to enjoy the game.
On my way to level 60, and in the past few days of being at the cap, I have never felt a requirement to spend money.
To be fair the prices for bags and respec tokens are out of whack. I don't know a single person who hasn't spend anything on bags or tokens on their way to lvl 60. I can live with overpriced vanity items but 10€ for bags and 6€ for Respec Tokens is too much.
I did buy a bag because I'm a packrat and didn't really know whether I would need/want those rank 1 and 2 runes later on (I didn't), so I had way too much stuff with me. I also have not touched the ADs I got from the packs. I, in fact, have not even claimed them yet.
Believe me, you want those enchantments. The rank three ones are worth 50k AD a pop and really important to min max your character even at earlier levels.
The PvP maps are very small and it's more about being where you need to be than about getting there two seconds faster. (It may actually be an advantage to get there a second later.)
Actually, Tier 3 mounts are absolutely vital in NW's PvP. Domination is all about getting from point A to B as fast as possible.
You don't need the cash shop to play this game period.
Still doesn't get around the fact this game is massively pay to win in both PvE and PvP and also how annoying it is to have my hand held to the zen store at every opportunity.
I'm downloading Age of Wushu, hopefully they manage to keep the rampant cash grabbers in the company at bay.
I can'thelpbut wonder, every time one of these threads starts, why people consider the cash shop items to be essential or required. Nice to have, you bet. But essential? Not even close. I've played two characters into the fifties now, and not spent one cent on the shop. Granted, I am a founder, so I have a mount and companion. But on each of those characters I have bought multiple companions for gold. I have earned enough AD doing the daily quests, and from invoking, that I have been able to purchase items that I want off the Auction House, and my founders AD remains unclaimed and untouched.
I have used my free and easily obtainable Celestial Coins to buy a chest, which gave me some enchantments and a rune which will guarantee fusion... I plan to keep it for the high level enchantments whereit is needed.
All things considered, free. No need for me to pay one red cent. During the closed beta, when we didn't get our founders mounts or companion, I had the same experience - got to almost 50 using only gold. Plan to do the same now that we are live.
"Not all those who wander are lost." J.R.R. Tolkien
I can'thelpbut wonder, every time one of these threads starts, why people consider the cash shop items to be essential or required. Nice to have, you bet. But essential? Not even close. I've played two characters into the fifties now, and not spent one cent on the shop. Granted, I am a founder, so I have a mount and companion. But on each of those characters I have bought multiple companions for gold. I have earned enough AD doing the daily quests, and from invoking, that I have been able to purchase items that I want off the Auction House, and my founders AD remains unclaimed and untouched.
I have used my free and easily obtainable Celestial Coins to buy a chest, which gave me some enchantments and a rune which will guarantee fusion... I plan to keep it for the high level enchantments whereit is needed.
All things considered, free. No need for me to pay one red cent. During the closed beta, when we didn't get our founders mounts or companion, I had the same experience - got to almost 50 using only gold. Plan to do the same now that we are live.
Well you have an epic companion capable of max level, a 110% mount that basically wins PvP, and are sat on a huge mass of AD so I can understand why you don't have a problem. If I want to compete with people like you in PvP or PvE I have to pay money too, that's where the problem is. Also if I want to re-spec I have to pay 600 zen but I guess I could get one of those in that great value $200 founders pack :rolleyes:
tl:dr This pay to win game is not to my taste.
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v1ctor2kMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Still doesn't get around the fact this game is massively pay to win in both PvE and PvP.
The ONLY thing you need in PvP to be competitive is a Tier 3 mount (which are included in the guardian pack). Health Pots don't work, neither do resurrection scrolls.
As for PvE, from what I've gathered so far, the best gear can only be obtained by exchanging tokens that drop in endgame dungeons.
Let me start off by saying this game has been a blast thus far. The combat is by far the funnest thing I have experienced in any game in quite some time. The quest lines, dungeons and pvp keep you hooked, and the skill part of it, instead of the typical tab target caught my attention. But I must say I ultimately agree with OP completely. And although I know the game is essentially a F2P game, and that they need to somehow make their money somehow, I believe many of the routes taken were not the way to go.
If you take a look at Marvel Heroes, which is an up and coming F2P Arpg mmo (diablo-esque dungeon crawler in essence). Although a different genre and a different game, their micro transaction model and way of making money is done very well. You can purchase founders to start off with certain heroes, purchase xp boosts and get costumes, but in the long run all of it can be obtained through simply 'playing the game'. There are no draw backs, no cash shops for respeccs, unlocking powers or anything of that nature. Path of Exile also follows a very similar style and has done very well.
All in all a great game so far, I just hope they reconsider some things and make some changes, as some things they just went too far with imo.
To be fair the prices for bags and respec tokens are out of whack. I don't know a single person who hasn't spend anything on bags or tokens on their way to lvl 60. I can live with overpriced vanity items but 10
I agree with you on the respec tokens and don't feel that respeccing should be a premium feature as I consider it a basic gameplay element in a modern MMO, but it's a bit of a dead horse and it's just what it is. I'm hoping for a test server or an in-game training hall where you can temporarily try out new specs.
As for the bags, I'm sort of torn on it. I think you only really need one of them, and not even that. Now that I'm done questing with my 60 CW, the bag is pretty much always empty. I just carry kits and the biggest version of all potions. I'd mail the bag to my alts that still level if I could. Dyes is something that rubbed me a bit the wrong way, actually. One dye changes one out of three (at least that's how it is with the chest) parts of an armor piece, so I would need three ... for one piece, and they are single-use, as far as I can see. It's purely cosmetic, but I would rather buy social clothing instead (the courtesan set looks better on my male CW than the PvP set..:p)
The ONLY thing you need in PvP to be competitive is a Tier 3 mount (which are included in the guardian pack). Health Pots don't work, neither do resurrection scrolls.
As for PvE, from what I've gathered so far, the best gear can only be obtained by exchanging tokens that drop in endgame dungeons.
So I have to pay for a tier 3 mount to be competitive in PvP. Not doing that with this business model.
How do you think I will stack up against you at max level with your epic companion. Mine is capped at 15 and pretty much useless at max.
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v1ctor2kMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well you have an epic companion capable of max level, a 110% mount that basically wins PvP, and are sat on a huge mass of AD so I can understand why you don't have a problem. If I want to compete with people like you in PvP or PvE I have to pay money too, that's where the problem is. Also if I want to re-spec I have to pay 600 zen but I guess I could get one of those in that great value $200 founders pack :rolleyes:
tl:dr This pay to win game is not to my taste.
Here's the thing, and it is important, we aren't competing. I suck at PvP in every game - skill in PvP is way more important than gear, especially here where all the gear will let me do is run away faster. In PvE, we are definitely not competing, and the only way I might have a slight advantage would be my ability, via the horse, to get to the questing location 3 seconds faster than a gold bought horse.
"Not all those who wander are lost." J.R.R. Tolkien
I'll agree that most things in the shop are way overpriced, but you act as if we should get it for free. This is pretty standard of F2P games and there are worse examples. Further more, you absolutely need nothing from the cash shop to be able to play the game. In fact there's very little that will add to your character in terms of both PvP and PvE. By throwing some cash at the game you'll only have to grind less, and that's it. Time vs money.
if you read my entire post, you would not say that i act as if we should get it for free. also the time vs money comment is subjective to how much time vs how much money. 10 bucks or several months (just giving random numbers here) how would taht be fair? sure atm high level players can rake in the cash cuz the economy hasnt solidified, but what will it be like once it has?
btw, some people will tell you that you can convert ADs to Zen by playing the game
dont listen to them, they are idiots. even if you play every single day of the week, every single week of the month, and always always always cap your 24k ADs per day, it will take you 20 days for each 1000 zen item that you need. and beieve me, just for the wards your gonan need LOTs of them.
if you consider than not every day you can play, and that not everyday you will get the 24k (actually I doubt the average casual player makes more than 10k per day) your looking, at the very least, at double that time.
Except I make about 300k-1000k AD everyday just by using the AH, takes me about 2-3hours of gameplay (which is casual gameplay) to acquire the items you sell on the AH. Almost all ranks of runes/enchants sells fairly often and the price vary based on the ranks. You can also get a nice ammount of AD by selling crafting services, the items you craft with the professions sells rather well aswell. Then there's the boe's from the dungeons, those will always sell since most people like to make alts, and most people are lazy when it comes to gearing their alts.
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t3hwh173f0xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Although you can only refine 24k AD a day, doesn't mean that's all you can get in one day... You can make over 100k AD (already refined) a day in the AH. The cap of 100 million AD is a bummer, but at the same time when you are getting close you can trade it for zen which there is no cap for. The AD/zen exchange rate is absolutely horrible, but if you don't plan on spending that zen you can look at them as mutual funds (considering the value of AD will likely go down as more people play and the value of zen will go up, paying attention to the game economy is important if you want to get rich in any online game) lol, and if you want to earn zen to spend it, just play the AH and I assure you, you will make more AD than you can spend if you play it well. Playing the AH is how you get rich in every other mmo so I don't understand why that is a problem in this game... You do not need to purchase zen, you can purchase it to save time but it is totally possible (in a reasonable timeframe) to farm enough zen to buy anything in the cash shop if you are not lazy. Sorry if I sound like a jerk, and I am not calling you lazy but I just wanted to put things into perspective
This thread is so difficult to interpret. We have people saying it's a pay2win game and others saying you can play and compete without ever buying anything.
I guess I'll just keep leveling and come up with my own opinion.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
This thread is so difficult to interpret. We have people saying it's a pay2win game and others saying you can play and compete without ever buying anything.
I guess I'll just keep leveling and come up with my own opinion.
That's the best solution.
Pay to Win is a topic which will always have two sides. If they only charged for cosmetics with no convenience we would still have plenty of people complaining it was pay to win because they need their pink pony with wings in order to beat the game.
The best way for you to judge is to go from 1-60 and see how you feel about the game.
ranhurMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
First off I agree that the cash shop could do with some fine tuning, but what players are completely missing is the game is in open beta (or just launched, depends how you want to define it) - it is the typical "I must have everything right now" mentallity which can ultimately limit your enjoyment.
They want you to invest your time and energy into the game, grow committed to your character and come back every single day to play and acquire your resources - the cash shop is there as a short cut.
So instead of looking at it and saying "it costs too much because I want it in the short term", look at the long term - they do not want you to get everything within a month and go "I have nothing left, I wont bother playing" - think of what you can acquire over the course of 6 months to a year.
Being constantly harassed by the inconveniences of the cash shop is really only something I am willing to allow while the game is still new and interesting. When it comes time to pay down $$$ for new classes and then pay more $$$ for everything else that goes into a character... well, let's just say that probably won't happen.
First off I agree that the cash shop could do with some fine tuning, but what players are completely missing is the game is in open beta (or just launched, depends how you want to define it) - it is the typical "I must have everything right now" mentallity which can ultimately limit your enjoyment.
They want you to invest your time and energy into the game, grow committed to your character and come back every single day to play and acquire your resources - the cash shop is there as a short cut.
So instead of looking at it and saying "it costs too much because I want it in the short term", look at the long term of what you can acquire over the course of 6 months to a year.
In a year, most of us will have had the chance to play Wildstar or TESO or who knows what else, and will have to make the choice between spending $$$ on a new class or new paragon path in NW and then scrimping, saving and busting our *** off to buy a bag or just move on to a game that is more suited to the traditional Western palette.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Being constantly harassed by the inconveniences of the cash shop is really only something I am willing to allow while the game is still new and interesting. When it comes time to pay down $$$ for new classes and then pay more $$$ for everything else that goes into a character... well, let's just say that probably won't happen.
Last we heard new classes aren't being charged for.
Subject to change as always. But that's always been the general consensus.
Pay to Win is a topic which will always have two sides. If they only charged for cosmetics with no convenience we would still have plenty of people complaining it was pay to win because they need their pink pony with wings in order to beat the game.
The best way for you to judge is to go from 1-60 and see how you feel about the game.
That's a good idea, but I'm pretty sure that anyone save the most myopic amongst us will see the true nature of the game and come to a decision long before the trek to 60 is completed. I would suggest that having quests where you need to open up the ZEN shop just to complete them really should put the discussion down well before even level 10 is achieved. The rest is merely extrapolation that any being of reasonable intelligence should be able to take a pretty good guess at.
Comments
good.
now, the other 90% of the stuff you tried to hide...oh sorry, I mean, that you somehow "forgot" to mention, because obviously you dont have a hidden agenda here, right?
the horses arent just prettier or rarer, but also faster
far better companions that represent an inmense boost to your stats and gameplay flow
top level ehchantments that grant a measurable amount of difference in power between those who have them and those who dont
respects that offer you a great deal of versatility, chances to experiment with what works best for you, and allow you to undo a mistake that otherwise you'll have to live with forever.
the majority of people wont get more than 10k per day, as I mentioned. its as factual as facts can get and we both know it. PWE/Cryptic count on that.
the system in place hurst people that are used to a certain amount of quality of life standards from better valued f2p games, or p2p games.
it doesnt hurt people that are hellbent in playing the game 100% for free and never, ever, ever spend a single dollar
it doesnt hurt people that intend to spend several hundred dollars per month
it hurts people looking to get an experience similar to what other games offer for a decent price, because that represents a "decent" price elsewhere, falls hilariously short here
and again, a mention to the health potions that noone has ever complained about, and a "strage" omission of all the other things that people have mentioned over and over again
strawmans...tsk tsk...not classy, dear moderator. not classy
the game was designed to be much less enjoyable without the consumables in the cash shop, and the inconveniences and the wearing out of the fun scalate as you progress further. It wouldnt surprise me if PWI had a team of psychologists almost as big as their team of coders.
On my way to level 60, and in the past few days of being at the cap, I have never felt a requirement to spend money. I still use the free companion you get a level 16 instead of the ones that came with the founder packs. I do have the mount, but I have never had to ride very far so I imagine the free, slightly slower mount will do. I did buy a bag because I'm a packrat and didn't really know whether I would need/want those rank 1 and 2 runes later on (I didn't), so I had way too much stuff with me. I also have not touched the ADs I got from the packs. I, in fact, have not even claimed them yet.
I have a bunch of alts who are around 20, and I have not bought anything for them, nor do I plan to at this point. I genuinely do feel that you can perfectly play the game for free and will not hit a wall where you have to pay or can't further progress. The best gear in the game all drops in dungeons or is earned by doing PvP. The PvP maps are very small and it's more about being where you need to be than about getting there two seconds faster. (It may actually be an advantage to get there a second later.)
Rish or something like that , gives daily quest that reward AD . If you did the sewer quest , you took an idol to him . he then explained dailies . 10k - 15k depending on your level , might even go higher I just made 40 this morning .
Don't even have to go to him.
Hit the K key, it will open the queue window. Click the home tab at the top left. Once on the screen, in the bottom right will be a Daily Window. Click it, and it will open the daily quest guys convo box and you can accept them all that way. Take his quest, do them, profit.
Also to make AD, sell blues on the ah. Use the greens for gold since you will need some gold to buy a mount and what not. Explore EVERYWHERE. They hide a LOT of stuff in the maps of this game. Hidden chest are a great way to get things. Even the story indoor maps have hidden paths. Don't just follow the glowy line. It leads you from point A to point Z but skips all the middle stuff.
On the contrary the most common complaint about the cash shop being pay to win has been about the health stones.
There is nothing, and I repeat nothing, in the shop which is a requirement to have fun. The only thing I feel I need more of is inventory space.
And that is where my argument lays. It's not based on prices or any hidden agenda, only by the items within the shop. They aren't needed by any stretch of the imagination to enjoy the game. I happened to use health stones as an example but there is nothing other than perhaps inventory slots which are required to enjoy the game.
To be fair the prices for bags and respec tokens are out of whack. I don't know a single person who hasn't spend anything on bags or tokens on their way to lvl 60. I can live with overpriced vanity items but 10€ for bags and 6€ for Respec Tokens is too much.
Believe me, you want those enchantments. The rank three ones are worth 50k AD a pop and really important to min max your character even at earlier levels.
Actually, Tier 3 mounts are absolutely vital in NW's PvP. Domination is all about getting from point A to B as fast as possible.
Still doesn't get around the fact this game is massively pay to win in both PvE and PvP and also how annoying it is to have my hand held to the zen store at every opportunity.
I'm downloading Age of Wushu, hopefully they manage to keep the rampant cash grabbers in the company at bay.
I have used my free and easily obtainable Celestial Coins to buy a chest, which gave me some enchantments and a rune which will guarantee fusion... I plan to keep it for the high level enchantments whereit is needed.
All things considered, free. No need for me to pay one red cent. During the closed beta, when we didn't get our founders mounts or companion, I had the same experience - got to almost 50 using only gold. Plan to do the same now that we are live.
Well you have an epic companion capable of max level, a 110% mount that basically wins PvP, and are sat on a huge mass of AD so I can understand why you don't have a problem. If I want to compete with people like you in PvP or PvE I have to pay money too, that's where the problem is. Also if I want to re-spec I have to pay 600 zen but I guess I could get one of those in that great value $200 founders pack :rolleyes:
tl:dr This pay to win game is not to my taste.
The ONLY thing you need in PvP to be competitive is a Tier 3 mount (which are included in the guardian pack). Health Pots don't work, neither do resurrection scrolls.
As for PvE, from what I've gathered so far, the best gear can only be obtained by exchanging tokens that drop in endgame dungeons.
If you take a look at Marvel Heroes, which is an up and coming F2P Arpg mmo (diablo-esque dungeon crawler in essence). Although a different genre and a different game, their micro transaction model and way of making money is done very well. You can purchase founders to start off with certain heroes, purchase xp boosts and get costumes, but in the long run all of it can be obtained through simply 'playing the game'. There are no draw backs, no cash shops for respeccs, unlocking powers or anything of that nature. Path of Exile also follows a very similar style and has done very well.
All in all a great game so far, I just hope they reconsider some things and make some changes, as some things they just went too far with imo.
I agree with you on the respec tokens and don't feel that respeccing should be a premium feature as I consider it a basic gameplay element in a modern MMO, but it's a bit of a dead horse and it's just what it is. I'm hoping for a test server or an in-game training hall where you can temporarily try out new specs.
As for the bags, I'm sort of torn on it. I think you only really need one of them, and not even that. Now that I'm done questing with my 60 CW, the bag is pretty much always empty. I just carry kits and the biggest version of all potions. I'd mail the bag to my alts that still level if I could. Dyes is something that rubbed me a bit the wrong way, actually. One dye changes one out of three (at least that's how it is with the chest) parts of an armor piece, so I would need three ... for one piece, and they are single-use, as far as I can see. It's purely cosmetic, but I would rather buy social clothing instead (the courtesan set looks better on my male CW than the PvP set..:p)
So I have to pay for a tier 3 mount to be competitive in PvP. Not doing that with this business model.
How do you think I will stack up against you at max level with your epic companion. Mine is capped at 15 and pretty much useless at max.
Great idea. Hope someone from PW and/or Cryptic listens.
Here's the thing, and it is important, we aren't competing. I suck at PvP in every game - skill in PvP is way more important than gear, especially here where all the gear will let me do is run away faster. In PvE, we are definitely not competing, and the only way I might have a slight advantage would be my ability, via the horse, to get to the questing location 3 seconds faster than a gold bought horse.
I have a 60 CW who uses the rank 15 cleric instead of my purple ones.
if you read my entire post, you would not say that i act as if we should get it for free. also the time vs money comment is subjective to how much time vs how much money. 10 bucks or several months (just giving random numbers here) how would taht be fair? sure atm high level players can rake in the cash cuz the economy hasnt solidified, but what will it be like once it has?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Except I make about 300k-1000k AD everyday just by using the AH, takes me about 2-3hours of gameplay (which is casual gameplay) to acquire the items you sell on the AH. Almost all ranks of runes/enchants sells fairly often and the price vary based on the ranks. You can also get a nice ammount of AD by selling crafting services, the items you craft with the professions sells rather well aswell. Then there's the boe's from the dungeons, those will always sell since most people like to make alts, and most people are lazy when it comes to gearing their alts.
I guess I'll just keep leveling and come up with my own opinion.
That's the best solution.
Pay to Win is a topic which will always have two sides. If they only charged for cosmetics with no convenience we would still have plenty of people complaining it was pay to win because they need their pink pony with wings in order to beat the game.
The best way for you to judge is to go from 1-60 and see how you feel about the game.
They want you to invest your time and energy into the game, grow committed to your character and come back every single day to play and acquire your resources - the cash shop is there as a short cut.
So instead of looking at it and saying "it costs too much because I want it in the short term", look at the long term - they do not want you to get everything within a month and go "I have nothing left, I wont bother playing" - think of what you can acquire over the course of 6 months to a year.
In a year, most of us will have had the chance to play Wildstar or TESO or who knows what else, and will have to make the choice between spending $$$ on a new class or new paragon path in NW and then scrimping, saving and busting our *** off to buy a bag or just move on to a game that is more suited to the traditional Western palette.
Last we heard new classes aren't being charged for.
Subject to change as always. But that's always been the general consensus.
That's a good idea, but I'm pretty sure that anyone save the most myopic amongst us will see the true nature of the game and come to a decision long before the trek to 60 is completed. I would suggest that having quests where you need to open up the ZEN shop just to complete them really should put the discussion down well before even level 10 is achieved. The rest is merely extrapolation that any being of reasonable intelligence should be able to take a pretty good guess at.