I don't think the problem is the designer(Cryptic). I think the problem is the player. I understand where OP is coming from, but sorry bro, the rogue wasn't made personsally for you. It was made for a larger demographic of player. Welcome to the "entitlement" generation of gamers.
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
Lolwut, the trickerster rogue plays like a GWF, my playstyle is GWF but the trickster rogues is better at GWF at his job and his role, its not my problem Cryptic completely mixed up the roles of these classes
GWF is and will always be the "dumb people" class, that runs up and mashes his 2handed aoe swings, rogue is suppose to be more smart and positional, and if not, what is the point of a GWF then?
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dingabingMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ive never played a rogue before that basically just charges in like a fighter, mashing all his at wills and encounter powers in random succession without a care in the world for positioning or priority, and puting out 100% of his dps, this is the playstyle of a GWF that somehow got mixed up with a rogue
Can i please have the rogue back? a class that relys on actually cunning and needing to be behind a target to do good damage? this class just takes no skill at all and feels very boring and overpowered, GWF also needs its own help, it does nothing well cant tank and cant damage, its a completley worthless class
Please switch the roles of these classes back to working as intended, thanks
Seriously, this I admit is not the old 1st ed D&D or 2nd AD&D. Yeah i'm a D&D player from the old ancient days. But this is how a rogue always was when it came to combat. In a party send the warriors and such in charging in with the rogue running shortly behind them. Right before the enemy and party melee clashes you as a rogue stealth (chaos of combat) and find the weaker non armored or caster and rip into them. Hit level 13 or 14 and trust me you wont be griping about "it's not a traditional rogue". I've stealthed right when I expected I was going to go OOm and retreated away from battle quick heal and charged back.
The discussion is less about how to play in game, as much as what a Rogue is in DND pnp.
Rogues in DND are more versatile. in 3.5 and earlier, INT was a rogues primary stat. While there were melee dps builds, rogues were primarily out of combat use. They in fact had weak attack rolls. RANGERS were the dw melee dps kings. Rogues were about traps, lockpicking, perform, jump, acrobatics, slight of hand, spot, search, listen, etc. class skills, not combat feats.
While in combat, rogues often either used bows from distance to make attacks of opportunity, which were effectively "combat advantage". and sneak attacks. or melee rogues with finesse, etc.
4e turned rogues into WoW clone rogues, as you would see in a CRPG. DPS machines.
Part of the problem is of course all those Role play class skills have little use, or are hard to really translate into computer rpgs, which are so combat focused.
Calling the tricksters was poor choice on WOTC's part. As that implies Arcane trickster. which is very much, not a dps machine.
If your rogue in 3.5 was not tossing out a bucket full of dice in damage every turn in combat you were doing it wrong.
Step 1 Get a decent str or take Finesse and 2wf chain
Step 2 Tumble or shift into flanking position.
Step 3 Squish BBEG.
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prunetracyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Uh... The rogue can't ignore positioning and do 100% of their damage. Combat advantage, brah.
If you're playing like a GWF, you're doing it wrong.
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sephereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Hmm, I don't know what class the op is playing, but when you get around level 25 or so,
you can use stealth and other distracting skills to kill from behind and from the shadows, nearly constantly.
It only starts out in the beginning like a 'spank&tank', but it's really not,
because when you reach your potential in the midlevels,
you'll feel more like a 'rogue'.
I think that the problem is, that the beginning playstyle just gives a bad idea of what the class is like, since, you know,
you don't even get things like stealth till later.
(also skills like bait&switch, deft strike, and gloaming cut really help to make for strategic gameplay)
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Yes would like to see a bit more stealth and tact for the rogue to deal damage, Yes GWF needs help
from what i seen the rogue is a striker. in reality it should be a tactical fighter with the great weapons fighters being the strikers. ther comes a point when our strategic chars needs to be cut from tanks and put as flankers. rogues always has and always will be most effecting with a fighter blocking and fending off attackers while the mages and healers work their magics. a rogues job should be counter striking, attacking from shadows, and such. but as a striker that means it must abandon the shadows for a head on fight.
More low lvls complaining that never bother to get far enough to even see how different the class can be.
It can be played exactly the way u want...
And anyone agreeing with him also is obviously a low lvl...
There is a build that spends HAMSTER amounts of time in the shadows...
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valtrayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
master the stealth mechanic. never die again. 1-60. only use atwill attacks when in stealth to not break stealth. use abilitys in stealth that refills your stealth, your dummy ability and shadow strike does the job there. then you got the daily that keeps you in stealth for a long time while increasing your damage. your only damage will come from atwills.
the conclusion is, as long as you stay in stealth, mobs won't attack you. to achive this, only use the abilites i listed and you'll be fine. stay stealthed indefinitely with this combo/untill mobs are dead.
Well , the only thing that really surprised me was that the TR has incredible at-will dmg (i was about to say auto attack) , and i was expecting something like weak at wills , and super strong encounters ... maybe something in the lines of finishing moves from other titles.But then again , Neverwinter has unique rouges
This isn't a D&D game. This is an MMORPG in a D&D universe. It's a fun game, but I highly doubt actual D&D play-styles or rules will be used. Side note: I was really surprised to see that there's no Ranger or Bard, so yeah.
They just started out with the 4 iconic core classes for launch. Ranger, Bard, Druid, Paladin, Monk, Sorcerer are all bonus classes that are kind of off-shoots of those primary 4 but they will come
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optikalshadowMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Why don't people at least try the character past 30 before crying? Ugh.
because you shoudlnt have to play that long to start playing your chosen class?
at the very start of the game your class should feel like the class you picked, period.
and in any case 4e rouges are pretty much represented well in this game, run in, spam abilites, 4e killed dnd classes, everyones a mage now, just short or long ranged.
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sephereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
That's weird, I've never spammed abilities in this game (didn't feel like I needed to, to do damage),
I use them when I need them,
heavy hitting ones on elites, stuns/dazes for elites,
teleport/sprints to teleport behind an elite or to reach when I'm too far away, etc
I mainly play a rogue right now,
but I've also tried guardian fighter, great weapon fighter (I prefer melee most of the time),
and never once have I felt like I was playing a mage
If you run in and blow all your abilities on trash mobs,
you're wasting them, really
Comments
GWF is and will always be the "dumb people" class, that runs up and mashes his 2handed aoe swings, rogue is suppose to be more smart and positional, and if not, what is the point of a GWF then?
Seriously, this I admit is not the old 1st ed D&D or 2nd AD&D. Yeah i'm a D&D player from the old ancient days. But this is how a rogue always was when it came to combat. In a party send the warriors and such in charging in with the rogue running shortly behind them. Right before the enemy and party melee clashes you as a rogue stealth (chaos of combat) and find the weaker non armored or caster and rip into them. Hit level 13 or 14 and trust me you wont be griping about "it's not a traditional rogue". I've stealthed right when I expected I was going to go OOm and retreated away from battle quick heal and charged back.
If your rogue in 3.5 was not tossing out a bucket full of dice in damage every turn in combat you were doing it wrong.
Step 1 Get a decent str or take Finesse and 2wf chain
Step 2 Tumble or shift into flanking position.
Step 3 Squish BBEG.
If you're playing like a GWF, you're doing it wrong.
you can use stealth and other distracting skills to kill from behind and from the shadows, nearly constantly.
It only starts out in the beginning like a 'spank&tank', but it's really not,
because when you reach your potential in the midlevels,
you'll feel more like a 'rogue'.
I think that the problem is, that the beginning playstyle just gives a bad idea of what the class is like, since, you know,
you don't even get things like stealth till later.
(also skills like bait&switch, deft strike, and gloaming cut really help to make for strategic gameplay)
It can be played exactly the way u want...
And anyone agreeing with him also is obviously a low lvl...
There is a build that spends HAMSTER amounts of time in the shadows...
the conclusion is, as long as you stay in stealth, mobs won't attack you. to achive this, only use the abilites i listed and you'll be fine. stay stealthed indefinitely with this combo/untill mobs are dead.
They just started out with the 4 iconic core classes for launch. Ranger, Bard, Druid, Paladin, Monk, Sorcerer are all bonus classes that are kind of off-shoots of those primary 4 but they will come
because you shoudlnt have to play that long to start playing your chosen class?
at the very start of the game your class should feel like the class you picked, period.
and in any case 4e rouges are pretty much represented well in this game, run in, spam abilites, 4e killed dnd classes, everyones a mage now, just short or long ranged.
I use them when I need them,
heavy hitting ones on elites, stuns/dazes for elites,
teleport/sprints to teleport behind an elite or to reach when I'm too far away, etc
I mainly play a rogue right now,
but I've also tried guardian fighter, great weapon fighter (I prefer melee most of the time),
and never once have I felt like I was playing a mage
If you run in and blow all your abilities on trash mobs,
you're wasting them, really