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Old time 2nd and 3.5 ed player confused........ Is 4th edtion just boring? And others
elcan1980
Member Posts: 13 Arc User
Before im flamed by haters please understand where im coming from.. I use to pnp 1 time a week with the same group for over 10 years.. We went from 2nd to 3.5 during progress but real life and families and work seemed to tear that apart.... Well here we are playing a new DDO online, in a realm that is one of the best realms to play in and my confusion is getting the better of me..
did 4th edition get rid of skill checks like jump swim intimated etc..?
Are feats now just multipliers for main attacks rather than a unthinkable feat to show the prowess you have in combat?
Items like +3 smiting armor??? Smiting or to smite something is a skill and the armor if your not a cleric requires a UMD ( use magical device) skill check.. So im kinda lost.. the names of equipment do not make any sense when using these terms, unless UMD is something of the past... But that's wheat made D&D great was any player could use, and wear any armor, and use any weapon unless it was a dm item or a rare campaign item that required something different. So to see that my rogue cant were cleric gloves is kinda troubling to someone that should be able to do and wear what they want to especially if they have the skills to do so..
Wheres the Vorpal swords, or the piercing, bleeding rapiers? ( stat dmg). Don't get me wrong i love this game as it is. Its a blast to play, but every one, and every thing is so limited in a universe that was originally limited by the GM. Other games where able to make that skill check or UMD use work in game DDO comes to mind. So you cant use that argument that not all of pnp things can be use in a online world.
Also the AH the filtered search and the fact that its sort by level isn't even an option needs some serious love.
So basically not to much of a rant o/ confused asking for guidance and direction post. While this game is a blast certain things really need to be looked at, and that's why i think this game would have benefited from a longer testing and development phase.
did 4th edition get rid of skill checks like jump swim intimated etc..?
Are feats now just multipliers for main attacks rather than a unthinkable feat to show the prowess you have in combat?
Items like +3 smiting armor??? Smiting or to smite something is a skill and the armor if your not a cleric requires a UMD ( use magical device) skill check.. So im kinda lost.. the names of equipment do not make any sense when using these terms, unless UMD is something of the past... But that's wheat made D&D great was any player could use, and wear any armor, and use any weapon unless it was a dm item or a rare campaign item that required something different. So to see that my rogue cant were cleric gloves is kinda troubling to someone that should be able to do and wear what they want to especially if they have the skills to do so..
Wheres the Vorpal swords, or the piercing, bleeding rapiers? ( stat dmg). Don't get me wrong i love this game as it is. Its a blast to play, but every one, and every thing is so limited in a universe that was originally limited by the GM. Other games where able to make that skill check or UMD use work in game DDO comes to mind. So you cant use that argument that not all of pnp things can be use in a online world.
Also the AH the filtered search and the fact that its sort by level isn't even an option needs some serious love.
So basically not to much of a rant o/ confused asking for guidance and direction post. While this game is a blast certain things really need to be looked at, and that's why i think this game would have benefited from a longer testing and development phase.
Post edited by elcan1980 on
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The Sins of the Father NW-DLN6BC8NX
A Name For Yourself NW-DRBWMCFL4
Click Here To Visit The Official Thread
and is a kickstarter sandbox MMO now https://goblinworks.com/
the worst thing for me in 4th edition is literally the names of the classes... Control wizard, Great Weapon Fighter etc.. ( are you telling me paladins can use 2h weps anymore lolol?)
The good ole days of DnD are far gone and have travelled to the far green country....what is left is the AGE of DnD for DUMMIES . While trying to reinvent itself to a new population/generation of gamers they have pretty much alienated any older, like myself, gamers.
As for 4.0, yes it is boring, and it wont ever be any good again. They simplified the skill check from around 40+ skills to 13, and they gave everyone powers. Remember D&D soft level cap of 20, then you reached epic status and had to walk down the path of the prestige, where you nearly became godlike? Yeah, thats standard issue in 4.0 where the normal soft cap is 50. They also gave all these classes powers, like they are some sort of crazy superheroes who trot around like a god amongst men with a higher level of stature. No more are the days of working out a story and becoming a great adventurer, you now start as a hero.
Overall, 4.0 ruined tabletop D&D, and this is just an even more simplified and streamlined version of that. But they have to bend the rules to even more shameful levels in order to fit into standard MMO mindsets. Otherwise, is a fun game if you try to forget that its a D&D game, just like AuctionHouse Simulator is fun when you not think about the fact that its a Diablo game.
The Sins of the Father NW-DLN6BC8NX
A Name For Yourself NW-DRBWMCFL4
Click Here To Visit The Official Thread
Skill checks still exist, and feats are mostly measured in a +x to this saving throw or other check. There are a few with more interesting details though.
I think powers, having taken such a prominent role, reduced feats in that aspect.
Yup! Pathfinder is my Tabletop, D&D is my MMO. Things have changed.
I've been calling Pathfinder "DnD 3.75" for years now, because it's a more refined version of 3.5.
We shall see how DnD Next turns out, but at least until that I'm sticking with Pathfinder for my DnD needs.
4th edition is a lot of fun, and in my opinion superior to 3.5. I've only dabbled with Pathfinder, but being so close to 3.5, I really didn't enjoy it, either. My group has been using 4th ed since it launched, and haven't looked back, and have enjoyed the hell out of it along the way.
What the OP needs to realize is that Neverwinter is 'based on' 4th edition - and fairly loosely based on it at that. There are drastic differences, obviously, too many to list in a simple post.
Needless to say, to give 4th ed a fair shot, head to your local gaming store and find a group. I live in a pretty small town and the game store I frequent has 4th ed nights at least twice a week, where tons of players show up and play in whatever 4-hour scenario is rolling that evening. Characters are usually pre-gen, so you can show up, pop a soda, and toss some dice.
Because of all the haters or fanbois you find on the anonymous internet, the best way to find out if the system is for you or not is to -try it yourself-. For a lot of 3rd ed players, 4th ed is a curse (as you can see from other posts). But for many of us vets (I've personally been playing since 1st ed, since 1980), 4th edition is a blast. Like anything, though, since it's a social game, the group you are with makes ALL the difference, as well as having a DM who actually puts some effort into the game.
I'm thinking that hardcore D&D people are going to be vastly disappointed with this version. I mean, your first main quest giver is Nick Fury eye patch and all. This was designed for the childrens children of D&D gamers.
But seriously, as a player who's played the P&P version since AD&D, I can completely understand where you're coming from. 4e is bad in a lot of older player's eyes, and it was geared to make the game faster with power cards, reduced calculations, etc. (Personally, I love 3.5 and have nearly 100 of the source books for it on my shelf. Only a dozen 4e books, however.)
That said, it's a well designed system for an MMO, however, as the game was streamlined for quick combat (power cards, etc).
Now every kid on the block want their characters to have superhuman godlike x-men powers to demolish demi-gods and demons at everyturn, give their shoulders a pat, walk off and do another. And if their characters cant do that, by hell, they'll pay to be godly!
Don't forget all these multi million dollar MMOs actually hire experts that understand human psychology outside of the gaming industry to maximise profits. In the end its all about fun equating into business sense.
Now, I will heartily disagree with you, this is a matter of opinion and I cant argue opinions, Neither 3.5 nor 4.0 are either better or worse than each other, since they are based more on opinion more or less. About your group, good that you have one, but ever since it became so much harder to find 3.5 books after 4.0, my small group of friends gathered our books and only played with as much as we could find, All the comic book stores in my area used to host three nights a week 3.5 games, but after 4.0 came out, they stopped hosting D&D games in total. Almost everyone in my area feel 4.0 is a curse, and all they do now is WW Story games and magic games. They say we have to do our own 3.5 games, they refuse to sell or host 4.0 games. All 4 stores within a 40 mile radius. And I live in Orlando.
But again, Matter of opinion on which is better. I just wish they would at least still print 3.5 books...since all the stores in my area no longer do D&D, I have to buy online, and the only thing anyone sells anymore is 4.0, which makes me sad. We only have MM 1, 2, 3, and a few players handbooks and DM guide. We dont have alot of the advanced 3.5 stuff, like Arcana book, Book of the Dragon, Advanced Players Guide, Godly Guides, Path of the Prestige...so many book I want, but they no make no more.
Sad Face.
In my opinion Third edition is terrible. It revolves around splashing in various classes and creating hodge podge characters.
Now 4th edition uses 3 sets of basic powers for any class. AT-will, Encounter, and Daily. In the Pen and Paper game they are used well, At-will, once per encounter, and once per day. So you always have at will powers ready and if there has been any break in the action you will have all of you encounter powers ready. Daily powers won't recharge until you rest. In the pen and paper version you get a fair number of powers and can use them all. Also you can specialize your character by following pathways....
Now Neverwinter Online makes some concessions to the mechanics of the game engine they use. As much as it annoys me it is limited in the number of active powers it provides for you to control at once.
So in NWO you can get 2 active At-Will powers though as you level up to 60 you will pick up others that you can swap in and out of active out of combat.
Encounter powers become short term recharge powers and are bound to the Q, E, R, & Tab keys.
Daily powers are used once and then must recharge. The recharge mechanic is tied to the class. Control Wizard for instance recharge by doing damage.
While the structure for a pathway exists at this time they only have one per class available at this time. Reports are that Alpha actually had multiple pathways available so they are probably done but badly in need of balancing.
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They actually used 2nd edition AD&D rules, not 3.5ed. I think that aside from possibly Icewind Dale, all of those games initially came out before even basic 3ed was released. To be honest I was never really a huge fan of the third editions. Partly because it kind of felt like my character was a big spreadsheet with personality traits attached and partly because of the lack of official support for Dark Sun and Planescape.
Will /danceseductive for ZEN. :cool:
That is the standard complaint about 4th Edition.
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