Actually . . . I am a casual player. I have a very full life outside of game and believe it or not ~gasp~ I know these are pixels and not real
And you speak as if it would bother me if they nerf it. Not really. It won't bother me too much . . . because by the time they nerf it I will have already enjoyed all the content and will be happily awaiting the next expansion or game title And so will even the most casual of players.
But . . . servers are back up, and this thread like most will be forgotten in an hour or so. See you in game as we kill more easy yet fun bosses
hmm - doesn't pass the *sniff* test. Your sig attests to your ego. I don't think you're "casual" anything, personally. But it doesn't matter. And I wasn't referring to you, personally. I was stating that your opinion isn't relevent to the discussion.
I find it demeaning when others reduce my experience. I am not sub-human just because I find the content too hard. They specifically made a Dungeon Finder to assist players in grouping up for dungeons, and made a Daily Event to encourage players to run the dungeons. They also threw a strict cap on the Dungeon Finder to prevent higher-level characters from running in lower-level dungeons.
The least they can do is make the content assessible to all. Right now, it isn't. And in the future, it will change. Its absolutely carved in stone. So why not just do it sooner than later.
I'll give ya one more hint: Saying "I don't think its hard" isn't constructive. Saying "kick-out the (x) class player" isn't constructive either.
So lets see if anyone can actually add something usefull to the conversation.
Wow, the amount of crying in this thread is unreal.
Bosses should have tons of HP. Bosses should have tons of adds. You should wipe at 20% on boss fights the first could of times you do it. Your finger should be tired as hell after a long battle with a boss.
Further, there should be AOEs to dodge, resists to focus on, and rewards to match the effort of the kill, IF you are lucky.
Stop dumbing down MMOs! Stop complaining! The whining and the crying is how we got from Ultima online and EQ to WoW and SWTOR. This genre used to take a time commitment, a focused mind and a fear of dying. Now if you cant whiz through a dungeon in 20 minutes without getting a full suit of armor it is the end of the world.
Also- to answer the question in the name of this thread. Yes, they test these dungeons, this is Beta, you are testing them right now.
My Quests:
The Wizard's Pride- NW-DRMKXUIDT
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bellringer01Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited May 2013
I've recently come over from TSW, and compared to nightmare runs there, I'm finding the dungeons here to be ralatively straighforwards and easy. A team that refuses to work together will usually end with a wipe and thats how it should be imo, but as long as there is even moderate cooperation between team members havent had any trouble so far.
Even managed to solo 1/4 the hp off a boss once rest of team wiped in a terrible pug, couldn't have done it without teleport for dodging and took me ages... in hindsight would have actually been faster to die so full team could try again but at least I know it's possible now if you're willing to spend the potions for it.
Cheers
[edit] I'm taking my time levelling so am yet to hit elite dungeons I should add, prolly be there in another day or two.
at least you guys can do dungeons. I cant at all because of how terribly optimized the game is. I get 1 control wizard spamming abilities and my fps drops to 10.......
I hate it when these people complain about their inability to kill bosses. It is dungeons and dragons, you did dungeons... now learn to fight a dragon. I want all the dragons to be ramped up and made harder. dragons in d&d lore are insanely strong.
IF you cant stand the heat, dont fight a damned dragon.
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ankorwutMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
OP is mad
mhmmm
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glasshalfempty1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
To be honest, I enjoyed my first encounter with this boss. My party wiped 4 times in a row, then defeated him on the 5th attempt.
We didn't gripe, didn't moan, and didn't rage-post on the forums. We talked through our mistakes (this was a pub, by the way) after each try and adjusted our play style based on the mechanics we observed. We didn't pick up the adds, we died, discussed it, then picked up the adds on the next attempt.
My point is this: When we finally defeated that boss, it felt like an ACCOMPLISHMENT.
What is the point of a boss that is so easy to kill that it becomes routine? Too many MMOs have check-in-the-box bosses where it takes only minimal attention/effort to defeat them. The Mad Dragon may be fairly hard, but it is also an incredibly intense fight with insane amounts of movement. It takes patience and teamwork to defeat a real boss, maybe people should try that instead of calling for nerfs to bosses after their first attempt at him? Take some time, learn from your mistakes, and have a rewarding, challenging fight instead of trying to break world records on dungeon speed runs.
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chaosbolt85Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
gotta love the boobies even women love boobies :P as well as men
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sadgfhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Lair of the mad dragon is harder than higher level dungeons or even epic dungeons, that suggests there is a serious problem.
Let's pretend like my account name isn't just a random string of characters I got by punching my keyboard.
This is absolutely irrelevent - and since you are an MMO addict, you know it.
They WILL nerf the content. They ALWAYS nerf the content.
Seeing (x) number of level 60's is anecdotal evidence and does not reflect the experience of other, more vocal, players.
"Casual" is the norm - MMO addicts are not the bread'n'butter of these companies. We know this because every company that carries MMO's make changes to accomodate those "Casual" players.
I feel bad for the 'hardcore' (as in, those who don't think of themselves as "casual") players. They WILL nerf the dungeons. It is inevitable. They always do.
I know that person personally and he is a casual gamer but what it sounds like to me is you need to go play Hello Kitty Online it sound more like your style with no nerfs
My point is this: When we finally defeated that boss, it felt like an ACCOMPLISHMENT.
If your goal is to accomplish something, try real life it has a more meaningful impact. For the rest of us, the point of playing a game is to have fun and escape the responsibilities in real life. A challenge is good, sometimes, but generally when it is a gradual increase in difficultly. Going from super easy, to a super hard boss, back to somewhat easy isn't fun. If they want the instance to maintain the same level of difficultly it needs to be moved to level 60 and have the 40-50 range dungeons gradually increase the difficulty to get you used to it.
Let's pretend like my account name isn't just a random string of characters I got by punching my keyboard.
Lair of the mad dragon is harder than higher level dungeons or even epic dungeons, that suggests there is a serious problem.
It's true. From personal experience, everything at 60 has been easier to heal than before I was 50, entirely due to Astral Shield.
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sephereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I think maybe the op is complaining about that dungeons idea of difficulty, was just to add more adds,
instead of making the boss ai itself more intelligent?
I kind of think that the bosses could use more uniqueness/variety in that area,
make it less about all the adds
(sometimes the boss spamming lots of adds is kinda fun, but for each fight? kinda sameold/sameold, you know?),
and make it more about the boss ai
(Make the bosses themselves more difficult? And I don't mean add more hp, cause that's not really adding difficulty)
Come on people... You get thirty levels of easy mode, by then you can control your character successfully, its just the next step. Nothing to get worked up over.
I was upset that i didn't complete it too
just my 2 cp
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sadgfhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Come on people... You get thirty levels of easy mode, by then you can control your character successfully, its just the next step. Nothing to get worked up over.
I was upset that i didn't complete it too
just my 2 cp
So...you can control your character, and there is no need to get worked up...yet you also failed to complete it and this upset you? o.O
Let's pretend like my account name isn't just a random string of characters I got by punching my keyboard.
i feel most of these higher lvl dungeons....were designed for the 2 ranged dps classes that will come out....just a thought
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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gukterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
It does really sadden me when it -really- seems to be, that people can't seem to stop dps:ing a boss for a few moments to dps the adds. I really do hope there won't be a DPS meter for the game. That'll make killing adds even less likely when "OMG DPS I R GOD!" people only see their numbers on the boss. Not the adds at all. And then keep bragging how their boss dps was best.
..indeed my ***.
...for the hundredth time in these forums GWF at 60 can destroy all classes; with unstoppable focus builds. Class isn't completely broken just because it starts out horribly slow. I Said "Can" Not Does...
The reason you don't know or see this is; Your not 40+, people running around with broken builds, synergy (poor optimization). Or they are average players; which is probably the larger case because most people cant stomach the GWF giving up in the 20-30s.
Not only did I not have any issue lvling GWF but I hardly take damage... Learn to play.
You want to play an OP class but prefer it to have GWF style is all. Then leave, no one will care. There has been multiple post (ive seen them) of players giving tips to those that suck with GWF... Just as there has been a guide out for a while now for GF tank build that out DPS all classes. Yet no one bothers looking.
1st time i time i went at the Chartilifax encounter it was with pug group, 1GF, 2 GWF, 1TR and a cleric. We did pretty good first run, 15% or so, next attempt we got smashed, 3 and 4th attempt is was real close ot 10% both times. At this point a couple folks want to go to bed so we disbanded.
On these 4 attempts i payed close attention and learned what was going on add wise and we disbanded and i went out the instance and saw a group adverting for another group needing people.
We formed up with 2 TR, 2 CW and a Cleric. 2 lvl 35's, 2 lvl 34's and one of CW's was 33. I asked and no one but me had been in the encounter yet. I explained the Priority that we should kill adds in, mentioned the mid point mob flood and the 2 huge demon adds at the end. Told them it was crazy hectic and to just stay alive and kills adds as priority and DPS the dragon when you could.
We killed the dragon on the first attempt.
It was a lot of fun, and the hour i spent getting smashed with the first group was all that was needed to get a group of 5 total strangers with no voice com's through the encounter. Its wildly more difficult than any boss up to that point. BUT its a dragon FFS!!! I had a lot more fun in that one encounter than i had all all previously boss fights put together. I say leave he encounter alone, its certainly not impossible to do with pugs. Its a tough encounter for sure, and i am sure there are gonna be groups that can't down the dragon right off, that is OK though.
In the end all it amounts to is missing a mark in the achievement book if you cant get it done.
1st time i time i went at the Chartilifax encounter it was with pug group, 1GF, 2 GWF, 1TR and a cleric. We did pretty good first run, 15% or so, next attempt we got smashed, 3 and 4th attempt is was real close ot 10% both times.
...
We formed up with 2 TR, 2 CW and a Cleric. 2 lvl 35's, 2 lvl 34's and one of CW's was 33. rity and DPS the dragon when you could.
We killed the dragon on the first attempt.
A cynic might point out that you also swapped out the 2 GWF and GF for an extra TR and 2 CW.
A cynic might point out that you also swapped out the 2 GWF and GF for an extra TR and 2 CW.
And this seems to be the core of the problem with this dungeon, you can queue up for it at level 30, and then you can also get "stuck" with classes taht wont perform as good as others at those levels, and "Lair of the Mad Dragon" really seems to be one of the very few dungeons where you have to be coordinated and do enough DPS to manage it, which is not possible with level 30's (from what i have seen atleast, and GWF at level 30-34 doesnt seem to be able to do much damage)
The way I see it is this..... people need to start thinking out of the WoW box on this game. If you want it nice and easy then go back to WoW. I played AoC... have 9 maxed out characters on there. The end game bosses make you want to pull your hair out until you figure out how to kill them. This game is the same way in meaning that not every boss is the same and you always have to change your tactics with them. What worked on one boss may not neccesarily work on the next boss. This game is the same way. If you try one thing and it dont work.... try something else. Stop thinking inside the WoW box.
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aldemmMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited May 2013
I enjoy a good challenge but it'd be nice if 90% of the bosses in these dungeons weren't just one big baddy + one million adds. I get add control is important in this game but with those health pools and intervals of spawning it gets really excessive if you don't have the right group composition-- which often times we can't really help.
Think old school vanilla wow or BC. You have to use cc, focus target and actually peel off and kill the adds. It's hard only if you think, burn the boss burn the boss burn the boss. If you stop dps on the boss, focus down the adds then you can clear it consistently.
It's definitely not designed for those who are use to the wow aoe zerge fest mentality of MMO's.
The question is, is this a good or a bad thing? I get that lvl50-Dungeons/Heroics should provie some kind of challenge. But should the Leveling-Dungeons for Characters just started the game and going into the dungeon through Dungeonfinder really get discouraged by bosses that hard?
What about the Roleplayers and Casual/Fungamers, you know, 90% of the community who just want to play the dungeon on normal mode for the story and the feeling of dungeonrunning?
Oh, and this goes well for another thread. Respeccing in this game is that expensive that its not an option. So you cant even react to difficulties.
All in all the normal versions of the dungeons are waaaay to hard.
How can you make bosses harder other than giving it life and adds? Would you prefer it to have less hp and one hit you? Or skills which is barely possible to dodge and would 2 hit you?
If you've played many mmorpgs, you'd know that all bosses are like this or the other. And you can either beat it as a group or quit because your gear/group members isn't up to par. There's no way to make a boss fight more exciting, I've fought bosses where the tank MUST die and be replaced, where you must stand at a spot or behind such during attacks, where skills of such must be used during a period.. but with such limited skills you may use in NW I'd assume that the only way to make it remotely challenging is adds and increased hp or high damage attacks which are hard to dodge. It's only after the boss fight that comes the exciting loot.
PS: Just my opinion.
This is an incredibly silly statement. How can you make a boss "hard" without a ton of health and a bunch of adds?
1) Give it damage reduction. ****, your abilities don't do as much damage as you expect. Gonna take you longer.
2) Put in a mechanic where you have to do a specific thing (get a specific buff, have a lootable item you must use to damage the boss/give yourself a buff) in order to gain the ability to deal more damage to the boss.
3) Make the boss abilities remotely threatening. If I can move out of them before the boss can complete the cast, they're not a threat. I just move.
4) Give the boss an ability that must be halted/interrupted or it will do a massive amount of damage to the group.
5) Make the boss do unavoidable damage to the group periodically. Not so much that it will one-shot the group, but enough that it must be healed up.
6) Give the boss an enrage timer. DPS made of idiot sauce? Hit the boss or the boss will simply destroy your face and it's GG. This could also tie into the idea of a buff/item/area of effect thing that gives you extra damage on the boss.
I mean, I could go on. There's eleventy billion ways to make a boss difficult that don't involve waves and waves of untauntable adds that simply overwhelm the party (generally by murderizing the Cleric with extreme prejudice, I might add) and ridiculous amounts of health.
BTW, "health" itself does not determine boss difficulty. In the absence of an Enrage timer, tons of health is just an annoyance.
Wow, the amount of crying in this thread is unreal.
Bosses should have tons of HP. Bosses should have tons of adds. You should wipe at 20% on boss fights the first could of times you do it. Your finger should be tired as hell after a long battle with a boss.
Further, there should be AOEs to dodge, resists to focus on, and rewards to match the effort of the kill, IF you are lucky.
Stop dumbing down MMOs! Stop complaining! The whining and the crying is how we got from Ultima online and EQ to WoW and SWTOR. This genre used to take a time commitment, a focused mind and a fear of dying. Now if you cant whiz through a dungeon in 20 minutes without getting a full suit of armor it is the end of the world.
Also- to answer the question in the name of this thread. Yes, they test these dungeons, this is Beta, you are testing them right now.
Let me know how that works with your completely random pugs. I agree that wipes and difficulty should happen with pre-made groups, but it is quite silly to do this with random pugs. People you've never met before, will never meet again, and have 0 incentive to keep plugging away at a boss after a wipe or two.
Also, um...what exactly does tons of HP do for a boss anyway? It's just an annoyance. Tons of HP isn't "difficulty." If you think it's difficulty, you have been deprived, son.
To be honest, I enjoyed my first encounter with this boss. My party wiped 4 times in a row, then defeated him on the 5th attempt.
We didn't gripe, didn't moan, and didn't rage-post on the forums. We talked through our mistakes (this was a pub, by the way) after each try and adjusted our play style based on the mechanics we observed. We didn't pick up the adds, we died, discussed it, then picked up the adds on the next attempt.
My point is this: When we finally defeated that boss, it felt like an ACCOMPLISHMENT.
What is the point of a boss that is so easy to kill that it becomes routine? Too many MMOs have check-in-the-box bosses where it takes only minimal attention/effort to defeat them. The Mad Dragon may be fairly hard, but it is also an incredibly intense fight with insane amounts of movement. It takes patience and teamwork to defeat a real boss, maybe people should try that instead of calling for nerfs to bosses after their first attempt at him? Take some time, learn from your mistakes, and have a rewarding, challenging fight instead of trying to break world records on dungeon speed runs.
There were members of my party that didn't even speak English (at least from how completely random and off their attempts at English were) and couldn't seem to understand anything that we said to try to coordinate. Explain to me how I'm going to fix that without leaving?
The way I see it is this..... people need to start thinking out of the WoW box on this game. If you want it nice and easy then go back to WoW. I played AoC... have 9 maxed out characters on there. The end game bosses make you want to pull your hair out until you figure out how to kill them. This game is the same way in meaning that not every boss is the same and you always have to change your tactics with them. What worked on one boss may not neccesarily work on the next boss. This game is the same way. If you try one thing and it dont work.... try something else. Stop thinking inside the WoW box.
Which WoW box? The WoW box where I raid 25 hours a week with 150+ wipes to certain heroic bosses this tier? I don't mind wiping. I enjoy my raid time, even though I sometimes wish I could strangle the designers of certain encounters (and occasionally...guildies...). >.>
You don't seem to comprehend the problem, tbh. I would love to run this dungeon with you, and a few other people that we formed with and were willing to work together to down the boss. But a really difficult leveling dungeon does not work when you have a completely random dungeon finder queue. It doesn't work with completely random players, anymore than it works with completely random players in WoW, or Rift, or SWTOR.
Comments
hmm - doesn't pass the *sniff* test. Your sig attests to your ego. I don't think you're "casual" anything, personally. But it doesn't matter. And I wasn't referring to you, personally. I was stating that your opinion isn't relevent to the discussion.
I find it demeaning when others reduce my experience. I am not sub-human just because I find the content too hard. They specifically made a Dungeon Finder to assist players in grouping up for dungeons, and made a Daily Event to encourage players to run the dungeons. They also threw a strict cap on the Dungeon Finder to prevent higher-level characters from running in lower-level dungeons.
The least they can do is make the content assessible to all. Right now, it isn't. And in the future, it will change. Its absolutely carved in stone. So why not just do it sooner than later.
I'll give ya one more hint: Saying "I don't think its hard" isn't constructive. Saying "kick-out the (x) class player" isn't constructive either.
So lets see if anyone can actually add something usefull to the conversation.
Bosses should have tons of HP. Bosses should have tons of adds. You should wipe at 20% on boss fights the first could of times you do it. Your finger should be tired as hell after a long battle with a boss.
Further, there should be AOEs to dodge, resists to focus on, and rewards to match the effort of the kill, IF you are lucky.
Stop dumbing down MMOs! Stop complaining! The whining and the crying is how we got from Ultima online and EQ to WoW and SWTOR. This genre used to take a time commitment, a focused mind and a fear of dying. Now if you cant whiz through a dungeon in 20 minutes without getting a full suit of armor it is the end of the world.
Also- to answer the question in the name of this thread. Yes, they test these dungeons, this is Beta, you are testing them right now.
The Wizard's Pride- NW-DRMKXUIDT
Even managed to solo 1/4 the hp off a boss once rest of team wiped in a terrible pug, couldn't have done it without teleport for dodging and took me ages... in hindsight would have actually been faster to die so full team could try again but at least I know it's possible now if you're willing to spend the potions for it.
Cheers
[edit] I'm taking my time levelling so am yet to hit elite dungeons I should add, prolly be there in another day or two.
IF you cant stand the heat, dont fight a damned dragon.
mhmmm
We didn't gripe, didn't moan, and didn't rage-post on the forums. We talked through our mistakes (this was a pub, by the way) after each try and adjusted our play style based on the mechanics we observed. We didn't pick up the adds, we died, discussed it, then picked up the adds on the next attempt.
My point is this: When we finally defeated that boss, it felt like an ACCOMPLISHMENT.
What is the point of a boss that is so easy to kill that it becomes routine? Too many MMOs have check-in-the-box bosses where it takes only minimal attention/effort to defeat them. The Mad Dragon may be fairly hard, but it is also an incredibly intense fight with insane amounts of movement. It takes patience and teamwork to defeat a real boss, maybe people should try that instead of calling for nerfs to bosses after their first attempt at him? Take some time, learn from your mistakes, and have a rewarding, challenging fight instead of trying to break world records on dungeon speed runs.
I know that person personally and he is a casual gamer but what it sounds like to me is you need to go play Hello Kitty Online it sound more like your style with no nerfs
You sir, are my hero.
If your goal is to accomplish something, try real life it has a more meaningful impact. For the rest of us, the point of playing a game is to have fun and escape the responsibilities in real life. A challenge is good, sometimes, but generally when it is a gradual increase in difficultly. Going from super easy, to a super hard boss, back to somewhat easy isn't fun. If they want the instance to maintain the same level of difficultly it needs to be moved to level 60 and have the 40-50 range dungeons gradually increase the difficulty to get you used to it.
It's true. From personal experience, everything at 60 has been easier to heal than before I was 50, entirely due to Astral Shield.
instead of making the boss ai itself more intelligent?
I kind of think that the bosses could use more uniqueness/variety in that area,
make it less about all the adds
(sometimes the boss spamming lots of adds is kinda fun, but for each fight? kinda sameold/sameold, you know?),
and make it more about the boss ai
(Make the bosses themselves more difficult? And I don't mean add more hp, cause that's not really adding difficulty)
I was upset that i didn't complete it too
just my 2 cp
So...you can control your character, and there is no need to get worked up...yet you also failed to complete it and this upset you? o.O
..indeed my ***.
The reason you don't know or see this is; Your not 40+, people running around with broken builds, synergy (poor optimization). Or they are average players; which is probably the larger case because most people cant stomach the GWF giving up in the 20-30s.
Not only did I not have any issue lvling GWF but I hardly take damage... Learn to play.
You want to play an OP class but prefer it to have GWF style is all. Then leave, no one will care. There has been multiple post (ive seen them) of players giving tips to those that suck with GWF... Just as there has been a guide out for a while now for GF tank build that out DPS all classes. Yet no one bothers looking.
On these 4 attempts i payed close attention and learned what was going on add wise and we disbanded and i went out the instance and saw a group adverting for another group needing people.
We formed up with 2 TR, 2 CW and a Cleric. 2 lvl 35's, 2 lvl 34's and one of CW's was 33. I asked and no one but me had been in the encounter yet. I explained the Priority that we should kill adds in, mentioned the mid point mob flood and the 2 huge demon adds at the end. Told them it was crazy hectic and to just stay alive and kills adds as priority and DPS the dragon when you could.
We killed the dragon on the first attempt.
It was a lot of fun, and the hour i spent getting smashed with the first group was all that was needed to get a group of 5 total strangers with no voice com's through the encounter. Its wildly more difficult than any boss up to that point. BUT its a dragon FFS!!! I had a lot more fun in that one encounter than i had all all previously boss fights put together. I say leave he encounter alone, its certainly not impossible to do with pugs. Its a tough encounter for sure, and i am sure there are gonna be groups that can't down the dragon right off, that is OK though.
In the end all it amounts to is missing a mark in the achievement book if you cant get it done.
A cynic might point out that you also swapped out the 2 GWF and GF for an extra TR and 2 CW.
And this seems to be the core of the problem with this dungeon, you can queue up for it at level 30, and then you can also get "stuck" with classes taht wont perform as good as others at those levels, and "Lair of the Mad Dragon" really seems to be one of the very few dungeons where you have to be coordinated and do enough DPS to manage it, which is not possible with level 30's (from what i have seen atleast, and GWF at level 30-34 doesnt seem to be able to do much damage)
What about the Roleplayers and Casual/Fungamers, you know, 90% of the community who just want to play the dungeon on normal mode for the story and the feeling of dungeonrunning?
Oh, and this goes well for another thread. Respeccing in this game is that expensive that its not an option. So you cant even react to difficulties.
All in all the normal versions of the dungeons are waaaay to hard.
This is an incredibly silly statement. How can you make a boss "hard" without a ton of health and a bunch of adds?
1) Give it damage reduction. ****, your abilities don't do as much damage as you expect. Gonna take you longer.
2) Put in a mechanic where you have to do a specific thing (get a specific buff, have a lootable item you must use to damage the boss/give yourself a buff) in order to gain the ability to deal more damage to the boss.
3) Make the boss abilities remotely threatening. If I can move out of them before the boss can complete the cast, they're not a threat. I just move.
4) Give the boss an ability that must be halted/interrupted or it will do a massive amount of damage to the group.
5) Make the boss do unavoidable damage to the group periodically. Not so much that it will one-shot the group, but enough that it must be healed up.
6) Give the boss an enrage timer. DPS made of idiot sauce? Hit the boss or the boss will simply destroy your face and it's GG. This could also tie into the idea of a buff/item/area of effect thing that gives you extra damage on the boss.
I mean, I could go on. There's eleventy billion ways to make a boss difficult that don't involve waves and waves of untauntable adds that simply overwhelm the party (generally by murderizing the Cleric with extreme prejudice, I might add) and ridiculous amounts of health.
BTW, "health" itself does not determine boss difficulty. In the absence of an Enrage timer, tons of health is just an annoyance.
Let me know how that works with your completely random pugs. I agree that wipes and difficulty should happen with pre-made groups, but it is quite silly to do this with random pugs. People you've never met before, will never meet again, and have 0 incentive to keep plugging away at a boss after a wipe or two.
Also, um...what exactly does tons of HP do for a boss anyway? It's just an annoyance. Tons of HP isn't "difficulty." If you think it's difficulty, you have been deprived, son.
There were members of my party that didn't even speak English (at least from how completely random and off their attempts at English were) and couldn't seem to understand anything that we said to try to coordinate. Explain to me how I'm going to fix that without leaving?
Which WoW box? The WoW box where I raid 25 hours a week with 150+ wipes to certain heroic bosses this tier? I don't mind wiping. I enjoy my raid time, even though I sometimes wish I could strangle the designers of certain encounters (and occasionally...guildies...). >.>
You don't seem to comprehend the problem, tbh. I would love to run this dungeon with you, and a few other people that we formed with and were willing to work together to down the boss. But a really difficult leveling dungeon does not work when you have a completely random dungeon finder queue. It doesn't work with completely random players, anymore than it works with completely random players in WoW, or Rift, or SWTOR.