how about a concession. need for class specific gets priority 1 and a need for companion button (only for currently summoned companion) that is greyed out if you dont have that class of companion and it gets priority 2 then greed is priority 3 and pass is 4.
i think thats fair if i made sense
edit: also i think companion specific gear would be the best way but would prob be hard to implement at this point
See here is yet another problem. Companion roll buttons (yes I even mentioned it) sound great in theory and on paper, however in reality would be an unused button unless done right, and I have no clue what the right way is lol. People will hit need if they can for companions or greed if they can't, whatever they think will grant the better chance. Although it would be a HIGHLY unpopular change for a few days to make companions use their own specific gear people would (after complaining) begin to find the new gear and re-outfit their companions making it hopefully smooth sailing for the future.
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skinstonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
You may want to tweak the loot system so if an item is class specific and that class needs on it they will 100% win the roll. Yes this idea is one that can be misused however very little is more annoying than getting to the end of a dungeon and have someone roll need on the gear for your class (gear they obviously can't even use) and then offer to sell it to you.
kill them, then you'll feel better as you loot it off there still warm corpse
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ozarka75Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
That option, while better, doesn't address the issue of an item being a clear downgrade for the player, while being a clear upgrade for the companion. The whole notion of restrictions by usability is flawed in its' core--better to simply ignore it and use the only truly fair system: random chance.
imo ninja free community > companion gear looting and character looting > companion looting.
random chance is fine in a perfect world (pun intended) but we play with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who will need on everything and make the game much less enjoyable. not being able to need roll on your companion's gear is a necessary sacrifice imo.
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sacred1337Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Let me continue playing devil's advocate here and then pose this question to you: Let's assume a similar situation, except the Icon is a clear downgrade for the cleric. Should he still have the ability to roll need and screw my companion out of a clear upgrade?
This is a minor sacrifice compared to someone who spent hours trying to get a nice item and fails to do so because someone who couldn't use it rolled a need. As I said before companions have very little impact on the game compared to real players.
That option, while better, doesn't address the issue of an item being a clear downgrade for the player, while being a clear upgrade for the companion. The whole notion of restrictions by usability is flawed in its' core--better to simply ignore it and use the only truly fair system: random chance.
imo ninja free community > companion gear looting and character looting > companion looting.
random chance is fine in a perfect world (pun intended) but we play with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who will need on everything and make the game much less enjoyable. not being able to need roll on your companion's gear is a necessary sacrifice imo.
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skinstonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
Quite simple. All pass or greed on all items. Need only available to a class that can use the item.
I replayed a dungeon that only dropped and item for my class (being the only one of that class both playthroughs) I passed the second time around. yes the several silver would have been nice in a win roll for greed. but I got my NEED roll the first time and on second plaything had 3 other class specific winning rolls. its a matter of not being an ***, as clearly stated by the author. false "Need" then offer to sell it back? sounds like an *** hat.
Quite simple. All pass or greed on all items. Need only available to a class that can use the item.
In a Perfect World (little pun there) we would all get the gear we need or want and wouldn't have to fight over it. Guild Wars 2 dealt with this best. Everyone gets something they can use, no fighting over any resources and all is well with the realm.
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sacred1337Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
imo ninja free community > companion gear looting and character looting > companion looting.
random chance is fine in a perfect world (pun intended) but we play with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who will need on everything and make the game much less enjoyable. not being able to need roll on your companion's gear is a necessary sacrifice imo.
This is a minor sacrifice compared to someone who spent hours trying to get a nice item and fails to do so because someone who couldn't use it rolled a need. As I said before companions have very little impact on the game compared to real players.
How about the people who spend countless hours running the same dungeon repeatedly, only to see the other classes' gear drop all the time? They're getting nothing under the need-only-for-your-class system.
You're in the minority here. Many would not be happy if their item gets taken away by someone who cannot even use it.
Just as I am unhappy that someone can take an item away from "me" (via my companion) being able to use it. Frankly, people need to stop thinking they are entitled to anything. Until that item hits your inventory, it's not your item.
I like the class specific options I.E. gray out need if person can't use.
But to the arguments well everyone should have chance they do have chance to roll on other things like accessories etc. which should actually be greed or pass since they don't seem to have classes labeled on them.
I.E your party has no GWF then everyone can greed and have equal shot at winning
The only issue I see would be you have 2 rogues both roll need but it isn't an upgrade for one of them that's where it gets fishy but still fair and sometimes you do run into those people that say "Hey I have that piece do u need i'll pass" if both rogues don't need item the should still be only ones allowed to roll on it because hey they are the rogues
but if 2 of the same class want it work as normal or only show that gear to the classes who can use it and as another poster stated grey it out to the other people
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ozarka75Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
I replayed a dungeon that only dropped and item for my class (being the only one of that class both playthroughs) I passed the second time around. yes the several silver would have been nice in a win roll for greed. but I got my NEED roll the first time and on second plaything had 3 other class specific winning rolls. its a matter of not being an ***, as clearly stated by the author. false "Need" then offer to sell it back? sounds like an *** hat.
LOL yes agreed! I think we made a comment that sounded something like that at the time!
This loot system does seem really odd. It doesn't really make sense to use the Need, Greed system. Basically you are rolling need on anything your class can use even though you have no idea many times, because the item is unidentified, if it is an upgrade. Similarly there is no reason for the need option to ever appear on items that you can't use, and the fact that it does causes trouble. Would have been better off using a system of private loot for each player ala Diablo III imo.
LOL I saw that. <giggles> great minds think alike.
agreed
10chrs
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drakethMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Almost makes me miss the olden days of MMO's lol. Someone ninja loots, the incident is mentioned about it across the server, after a few times of this they can't get into groups very often anymore. No name changes, no server swaps, no cross server grouping. You had to work hard to redeem your name.
Make sure you notice I said ALMOST =p
Almost makes me miss the olden days of MMO's lol. Someone ninja loots, the incident is mentioned about it across the server, after a few times of this they can't get into groups very often anymore. No name changes, no server swaps, no cross server grouping. You had to work hard to redeem your name.
Make sure you notice I said ALMOST =p
Makes me miss the days of tabletop gaming (*cough*). There weren't discussions about who gets what loot, because the DM *gave* it to you directly.
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denziyaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Too-shay.. or how ever that's spelled. I would miss those days but computer games spoiled me with graphics and now my imagination is dysfunctional.
Actually, this has given me an idea. Get rid of the concept of need/greed/pass entirely and just have the server dictate the items you get (or don't get).
(For the record, it's touche, and since apparently vBulletin isn't unicode aware, the e is supposed to be accented which you can do via alt+0233)
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drakethMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Quite simple. All pass or greed on all items. Need only available to a class that can use the item.
+1 .. I think that's really the summary of it all and the best solution. May not be great for dealing with companion gear but that's a minor sacrifice I think allot of us would be fine with, especially since they really only use a few items.
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ulfric007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
QQ. It will never happen. They have every right to the gear as you, and if they want it to put on the AH, to sell, or even give to an alt so be it. Group up with people you trust and you will not have that problem.
I think the current loot system is fine.. it's tried and true system and there's an option to set looting rules (NBG, master loot, FFA) before hand. People just needs not to be greedy and hog everything.
I doubt we'll see a feature where "need" is greyed out if you don't can't use it. Plus you get those people (some in this thread and it happened often in SWTOR) where people feel unjustifiably justified in needing so they can equip their companion out. Probably better to make companion gear something you can't loot, and also just kick people from your group who need on thing they can't use. Oh and have the queue system replace them (in case it doesn't).
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drakethMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I doubt we'll see a feature where "need" is greyed out if you don't can't use it. Plus you get those people (some in this thread and it happened often in SWTOR) where people feel unjustifiably justified in needing so they can equip their companion out. Probably better to make companion gear something you can't loot, and also just kick people from your group who need on thing they can't use. Oh and have the queue system replace them (in case it doesn't).
Hopefully they could at least implement the system GW2 and a few others use which is everyone gets their own loot. They Currently use that for the Many-Arrows token's you get off of the orcs, I see mine and you see your's. That way everyone gets something and it really is just chance on what you get.
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kalizaarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
My favorite loot system is random individual loot for everyone. Everyone gets some loot, nobody will be tempted to be a jerk, and nobody will feel like they've been wronged. That way everyone has the same chance to get good loot (or vendor trash).
What's the point of having a need/greed system when you can have individual loot? They're both based on random chance. Just one lacks grief.
I have not encountered people needing on things they don't need.... only time its confusing is during enchantments. Some people due need and some do greed for enchants.
If all drops are class specific it be dumb when everyone doesn't need something and boss keeps dropping rogue gear. So only the rogue gets to win the loot? system is fine as is.
Comments
See here is yet another problem. Companion roll buttons (yes I even mentioned it) sound great in theory and on paper, however in reality would be an unused button unless done right, and I have no clue what the right way is lol. People will hit need if they can for companions or greed if they can't, whatever they think will grant the better chance. Although it would be a HIGHLY unpopular change for a few days to make companions use their own specific gear people would (after complaining) begin to find the new gear and re-outfit their companions making it hopefully smooth sailing for the future.
kill them, then you'll feel better as you loot it off there still warm corpse
imo ninja free community > companion gear looting and character looting > companion looting.
random chance is fine in a perfect world (pun intended) but we play with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who will need on everything and make the game much less enjoyable. not being able to need roll on your companion's gear is a necessary sacrifice imo.
You're in the minority here. Many would not be happy if their item gets taken away by someone who cannot even use it.
imo ninja free community > companion gear looting and character looting > companion looting.
random chance is fine in a perfect world (pun intended) but we play with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> who will need on everything and make the game much less enjoyable. not being able to need roll on your companion's gear is a necessary sacrifice imo.
I replayed a dungeon that only dropped and item for my class (being the only one of that class both playthroughs) I passed the second time around. yes the several silver would have been nice in a win roll for greed. but I got my NEED roll the first time and on second plaything had 3 other class specific winning rolls. its a matter of not being an ***, as clearly stated by the author. false "Need" then offer to sell it back? sounds like an *** hat.
In a Perfect World (little pun there) we would all get the gear we need or want and wouldn't have to fight over it. Guild Wars 2 dealt with this best. Everyone gets something they can use, no fighting over any resources and all is well with the realm.
+1
How about the people who spend countless hours running the same dungeon repeatedly, only to see the other classes' gear drop all the time? They're getting nothing under the need-only-for-your-class system.
Just as I am unhappy that someone can take an item away from "me" (via my companion) being able to use it. Frankly, people need to stop thinking they are entitled to anything. Until that item hits your inventory, it's not your item.
But to the arguments well everyone should have chance they do have chance to roll on other things like accessories etc. which should actually be greed or pass since they don't seem to have classes labeled on them.
I.E your party has no GWF then everyone can greed and have equal shot at winning
The only issue I see would be you have 2 rogues both roll need but it isn't an upgrade for one of them that's where it gets fishy but still fair and sometimes you do run into those people that say "Hey I have that piece do u need i'll pass" if both rogues don't need item the should still be only ones allowed to roll on it because hey they are the rogues
Character handle:@skylia120410
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beat you to it! see above
LOL yes agreed! I think we made a comment that sounded something like that at the time!
LOL I saw that. <giggles> great minds think alike.
agreed
10chrs
Make sure you notice I said ALMOST =p
Makes me miss the days of tabletop gaming (*cough*). There weren't discussions about who gets what loot, because the DM *gave* it to you directly.
ahhh sigh.... those were the days lol
Too-shay.. or how ever that's spelled. I would miss those days but computer games spoiled me with graphics and now my imagination is dysfunctional.
Actually, this has given me an idea. Get rid of the concept of need/greed/pass entirely and just have the server dictate the items you get (or don't get).
(For the record, it's touche, and since apparently vBulletin isn't unicode aware, the e is supposed to be accented which you can do via alt+0233)
+1 .. I think that's really the summary of it all and the best solution. May not be great for dealing with companion gear but that's a minor sacrifice I think allot of us would be fine with, especially since they really only use a few items.
Hopefully they could at least implement the system GW2 and a few others use which is everyone gets their own loot. They Currently use that for the Many-Arrows token's you get off of the orcs, I see mine and you see your's. That way everyone gets something and it really is just chance on what you get.
What's the point of having a need/greed system when you can have individual loot? They're both based on random chance. Just one lacks grief.
If all drops are class specific it be dumb when everyone doesn't need something and boss keeps dropping rogue gear. So only the rogue gets to win the loot? system is fine as is.