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Suggestion for loot system.

drakethdraketh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
You may want to tweak the loot system so if an item is class specific and that class needs on it they will 100% win the roll. Yes this idea is one that can be misused however very little is more annoying than getting to the end of a dungeon and have someone roll need on the gear for your class (gear they obviously can't even use) and then offer to sell it to you.
Post edited by draketh on
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    ozarka75ozarka75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    or if its class specific grey out need for other classes. this is what rift did and it worked great.
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    flakelessflakeless Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Amen.
    10char
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    chubnastychubnasty Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Several times a boss dropped a rare item that was class specific to the class I was playing and I was the only one playing that class and someone who couldn't even use the item won. It's literally ridiculous that someone can win an item they have no intention of using or even the ability to use it over someone who wants the item and will use it.
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    psyb3rtr011psyb3rtr011 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    There is a middle ground between allowing a non-class to "Need" the item and not allowing them a chance at all. It's called "Weighting" results.

    It would work something along these lines.

    A 5 player party comes across an item for a Rogue. They all lay claim to try to get it, and "Roll". However, instead of having equal chances for it, a Rogue would get a 50% boost to his odds. Assuming 100% roll, the Rogue can roll no lower than 51%, and could get as high as 150%. The other characters would have a 01-50% chance of getting the item in question.

    This works fine, even if multiple characters of the same class vie for the item, as they each get a 50% bonus to their rolls.
    Psyb3rTr011
    AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
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    sacred1337sacred1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ozarka75 wrote: »
    or if its class specific grey out need for other classes. this is what rift did and it worked great.

    +1, classes that cannot use the item should not be able to 'need' roll.
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    sacred1337sacred1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    psyb3rtr011 wrote: »
    There is a middle ground between allowing a non-class to "Need" the item and not allowing them a chance at all. It's called "Weighting" results.

    It would work something along these lines.

    A 5 player party comes across an item for a Rogue. They all lay claim to try to get it, and "Roll". However, instead of having equal chances for it, a Rogue would get a 50% boost to his odds. Assuming 100% roll, the Rogue can roll no lower than 51%, and could get as high as 150%. The other characters would have a 01-50% chance of getting the item in question.

    This works fine, even if multiple characters of the same class vie for the item, as they each get a 50% bonus to their rolls.

    have you got evidence that this is how neverwinter loot system works?
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    orranbladeorranblade Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    the need/greed system is great, and works perfect..
    only problem is that is assumes the people in your party are friends and decent people out to enjoy the game and not gaming troll who think the game is better if they get more or do better than the rest of the group..
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    orranbladeorranblade Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    the need/greed system is great, and works perfect..
    only problem is that is assumes the people in your party are friends and decent people out to enjoy the game and not gaming troll who think the game is better if they get more or do better than the rest of the group..
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    drakethdraketh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ozarka75 wrote: »
    or if its class specific grey out need for other classes. this is what rift did and it worked great.

    Even better. Then everyone can greed but only those who can use it can need on it.
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    treal512treal512 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    While this certainly is a computer game, a mechanic like this would not last IRL. Imagine going on a raid with a group of friends or travelers. After fighting and risking your lives through various scenarios, if items emerged that were beneficial only for a specific person, I think it is relatively safe to assume that these items would generally go to that person. I can only think of a few situations where this would not happen: theft and someone pompously pulling rank. I'm not sure what NW is thinking on the matter, but I'm sure it is up for debate as this is still early beta.

    Can anyone share reasons why this sort of system should not be considered?
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    ozarka75ozarka75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    orranblade wrote: »
    the need/greed system is great, and works perfect..
    only problem is that is assumes the people in your party are friends and decent people out to enjoy the game and not gaming troll who think the game is better if they get more or do better than the rest of the group..

    exactly. so if they just grey out need for other classes on class specific equipmonk then the world is safe from trollninja******s.
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    vdinh037vdinh037 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    just implement a class specific in the loot settings
    problem solved
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    denziyadenziya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The problem is the standard Need/Greed/Pass system just doesn't work anymore. I was in the party with Draketh when this happened. Lets not forget the guy actually opened a trade window with him and then told him it wasn't for "free". He was a control wizard and couldn't even use the item. I really like the suggestion of ozarka75 "if its class specific grey out need for other classes. this is what rift did and it worked great" That is a great way to stop this kind of trolling.
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    denziyadenziya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AMEN
    vdinh037
    :cool:
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    malvoumalvou Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yes. This is wonderful. Grey "Need" out for classes who can't use the item.
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    chubnastychubnasty Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    malvou wrote: »
    Yes. This is wonderful. Grey "Need" out for classes who can't use the item.

    this.
    10chrtrs
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    ozarka75ozarka75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    vdinh037 wrote: »
    just implement a class specific in the loot settings
    problem solved

    only issue with this is ninjas who ask for group lead or start with it in a lfg pug can mess with the setting and if you quit you are back in the q. this happened a lot in tera. group leader would change loot settings while boss was at like 1% and before anyone noticed they were gone with ALL the loot.
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    lord2800lord2800 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Here's the problem with the whole "if you can't use it, you can't need it" idea: companions. I'm a Control Wizard with a Cleric companion, and an Icon drops. It's definitely an upgrade for my companion, as well as the cleric who happens to be in our group. Can I need on it? Before you answer, consider that I've put in just as much effort to get that item to drop as the cleric has. Just because it's for my companion rather than for me shouldn't affect anything.
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    ozarka75ozarka75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lord2800 wrote: »
    Here's the problem with the whole "if you can't use it, you can't need it" idea: companions. I'm a Control Wizard with a Cleric companion, and an Icon drops. It's definitely an upgrade for my companion, as well as the cleric who happens to be in our group. Can I need on it? Before you answer, consider that I've put in just as much effort to get that item to drop as the cleric has. Just because it's for my companion rather than for me shouldn't affect anything.

    shouldnt someone who is actually rolling a cleric get first crack at it over your companion?
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    denziyadenziya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ozarka75 wrote: »
    only issue with this is ninjas who ask for group lead or start with it in a lfg pug can mess with the setting and if you quit you are back in the q. this happened a lot in tera. group leader would change loot settings while boss was at like 1% and before anyone noticed they were gone with ALL the loot.

    VERY True Ozarka Good point!
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    denziyadenziya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ozarka75 wrote: »
    shouldnt someone who is actually rolling a cleric get first crack at it over your companion?

    YES .. main's should always take priority over companion rolls!
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    drakethdraketh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lord2800 wrote: »
    Here's the problem with the whole "if you can't use it, you can't need it" idea: companions. I'm a Control Wizard with a Cleric companion, and an Icon drops. It's definitely an upgrade for my companion, as well as the cleric who happens to be in our group. Can I need on it? Before you answer, consider that I've put in just as much effort to get that item to drop as the cleric has. Just because it's for my companion rather than for me shouldn't affect anything.

    The problem with this is that while your companion is important and does need some gear it is not anywhere near as essential to a party in most cases. Personally I think the best way to deal with this, and I said the same thing with SWTOR companions, is to simply either put in a companion roll button or make the companion's use different gear than player classes. Honestly an argument about needing for companions being OK or not can go on for centuries and most people will say it's not ok. The simple fix IMO is make it so companions use different gear IE=companion specific.
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    gorbulasgorbulas Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    i never really liked the need/greed/pass system because it encourages selfish looting. plus, it distracts from the fighting when multiple boxes popup in the middle of the screen. players will just need everything to dismiss the boxes ASAP. as for the class item debate, I agree with the thinking that players should get priority over companions.
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    sacred1337sacred1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lord2800 wrote: »
    Here's the problem with the whole "if you can't use it, you can't need it" idea: companions. I'm a Control Wizard with a Cleric companion, and an Icon drops. It's definitely an upgrade for my companion, as well as the cleric who happens to be in our group. Can I need on it? Before you answer, consider that I've put in just as much effort to get that item to drop as the cleric has. Just because it's for my companion rather than for me shouldn't affect anything.

    companion's contribution is minimal, thus no. Player chars should get 1st preference here.
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    lord2800lord2800 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    draketh wrote: »
    The problem with this is that while your companion is important and does need some gear it is not anywhere near as essential to a party in most cases. Personally I think the best way to deal with this, and I said the same thing with SWTOR companions, is to simply either put in a companion roll button or make the companion's use different gear than player classes. Honestly an argument about needing for companions being OK or not can go on for centuries and most people will say it's not ok. The simple fix IMO is make it so companions use different gear IE=companion specific.

    I can accept companion-specific equipment--that gives everyone a level footing for gear competition. However, that's not the reality of the situation (unfortunately). I personally feel that everyone should be able to roll need, with non-usable classes getting a penalty to their roll for not, y'know, actually being able to use the item. But I wholeheartedly disagree and reject the notion that just because I am unable to use some item, I should also not be granted the chance at said item. Key important point: CHANCE.
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    sacred1337sacred1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lord2800 wrote: »
    I can accept companion-specific equipment--that gives everyone a level footing for gear competition. However, that's not the reality of the situation (unfortunately). I personally feel that everyone should be able to roll need, with non-usable classes getting a penalty to their roll for not, y'know, actually being able to use the item. But I wholeheartedly disagree and reject the notion that just because I am unable to use some item, I should also not be granted the chance at said item. Key important point: CHANCE.

    So you are happy for other people that cannot use the item to need roll and have a chance to take that item away from you?
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    denziyadenziya Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gorbulas wrote: »
    i never really liked the need/greed/pass system because it encourages selfish looting. plus, it distracts from the fighting when multiple boxes popup in the middle of the screen. players will just need everything to dismiss the boxes ASAP. as for the class item debate, I agree with the thinking that players should get priority over companions.

    Draketh's idea about having companions use different gear would help with that one. The way I see it is....

    Human Player: Only that class can roll on class specific gear
    Companions: use companion gear

    :D
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    ozarka75ozarka75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lord2800 wrote: »
    I can accept companion-specific equipment--that gives everyone a level footing for gear competition. However, that's not the reality of the situation (unfortunately). I personally feel that everyone should be able to roll need, with non-usable classes getting a penalty to their roll for not, y'know, actually being able to use the item. But I wholeheartedly disagree and reject the notion that just because I am unable to use some item, I should also not be granted the chance at said item. Key important point: CHANCE.

    how about a concession. need for class specific gets priority 1 and a need for companion button (only for currently summoned companion) that is greyed out if you dont have that class of companion and it gets priority 2 then greed is priority 3 and pass is 4.

    i think thats fair if i made sense

    edit: also i think companion specific gear would be the best way but would prob be hard to implement at this point
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    lord2800lord2800 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    sacred1337 wrote: »
    companion's contribution is minimal, thus no. Player chars should get 1st preference here.

    Let me continue playing devil's advocate here and then pose this question to you: Let's assume a similar situation, except the Icon is a clear downgrade for the cleric. Should he still have the ability to roll need and screw my companion out of a clear upgrade?
    sacred1337 wrote: »
    So you are happy for other people that cannot use the item to need roll and have a chance to take that item away from you?

    Yes. They worked equally hard to accomplish the goal, therefore they should have a chance to get the reward.
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    lord2800lord2800 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ozarka75 wrote: »
    how about a concession. need for class specific gets priority 1 and a need for companion button (only for currently summoned companion) that is greyed out if you dont have that class of companion and it gets priority 2 then greed is priority 3 and pass is 4.

    i think thats fair if i made sense

    edit: also i think companion specific gear would be the best way but would prob be hard to implement at this point

    That option, while better, doesn't address the issue of an item being a clear downgrade for the player, while being a clear upgrade for the companion. The whole notion of restrictions by usability is flawed in its' core--better to simply ignore it and use the only truly fair system: random chance.
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