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Did you guys even test these dungeons?
mrfoxx
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 62
Just spend 25minutes on chartilifax or whatever the last dragon bosses name is in the level 34 dungeon just to wipe at 20%.
The dude has an insane amount of add, not including the unccable ones at the endand a ridiculous amount of hit points. I noticed this int he skirmishes as well, ridiculously high amounts of hit points on the bosses, whats the deal? Is that what makes content challenging, me sitting here and mindlessly clicking on a mob for 15 to 20minutes?
Every boss in every dungeon so far has been high hitpoints and WAVE upon WAVE of adds. Are you for real?i cant wait to see the end game dungeons if the level 34 dungeons are about fighting one giant boss in the middle of 3000 adds.
The dude has an insane amount of add, not including the unccable ones at the endand a ridiculous amount of hit points. I noticed this int he skirmishes as well, ridiculously high amounts of hit points on the bosses, whats the deal? Is that what makes content challenging, me sitting here and mindlessly clicking on a mob for 15 to 20minutes?
Every boss in every dungeon so far has been high hitpoints and WAVE upon WAVE of adds. Are you for real?i cant wait to see the end game dungeons if the level 34 dungeons are about fighting one giant boss in the middle of 3000 adds.
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Ive had him down to 10% with pugs. and once you get too high level you have to go to Helms Hold manually to do the dungeon. No thanks why bother id rather level properly then.
Fail dungeon.
Thats not my point, disregarding your asinine advice, the problem is its boring, the same fight over and over again and it takes to long, alright not enough dps, so we should kick all GWF out of parties in favor of more tanks. Makes sense.
Or get better, that is also some sound advice, wiped at 20% because there was 15 elites including one that couldnt be crowd controlled + the boss, but get better is the tip of the day.
These dungeons need more thought, the encounter should be about the BOSS not how many freaking adds he can spawn at 25/50/75/90% intervals of his life. If the boss needs more adds to be hard, the boss itself is not hard, throwing infinite amount of bodies at the 5 man player party is the challenge.
And since every boss so far does this, it means every boss is exactly the same.
On a side note, you are a *******, Ragerblade82, for even thinking anything you posted was remotely OK as advice.
Think old school vanilla wow or BC. You have to use cc, focus target and actually peel off and kill the adds. It's hard only if you think, burn the boss burn the boss burn the boss. If you stop dps on the boss, focus down the adds then you can clear it consistently.
It's definitely not designed for those who are use to the wow aoe zerge fest mentality of MMO's.
*edit* Wanted to add in a bit more here.
For all higher level content the bosses are not the same at all. They all get MUCH harder with multiple styles of attacks. Wait til you're fighting a boss that will disable, slow, summon adds and hit for thousands an attack. Then add in the adds that also mimic the boss but to a slightly less degree, including summoning adds of their own.
You can easily wind up with 20-40 adds simply because you left the mage mobs each summon 3+ other mobs without stopping dps on the boss, lowering his hps, pushing him to the next add phase, resulting in 2-3 more mages summong 3+ mobs... I think you see where I'm going with this.
Use either the in game voice, or voice chat outside of the game to communicate. At the very least type out a plan, who's going to OT, who's going to pick the targets and who's going to peel off the boss to kill said targets.
Control the adds, the Guardians at that level can tank and can do on par damage with a GWF. The class is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, at that level and prob still be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at higher levels.
With adds being controlled, and near the same damage done. You can easily do it. SO if you had a GWF it is his fault for not being able to down it.
l2p
First, a threshhold was broken, at level 30 you choose your subclass/paragon power, means you have new skills you dont even know how to use yet, it also means everyone has new skills they dont know how to use effectively.
Second, its the third dungeon, not end game, not heroics, its the third, i outleveled the second dungeon in 3 runs, ill outlevel this one just as fast. The difficulty doesnt make sense for that reason alone, if this was level 60, you had all your skills then saying some ******bag comment like learn to play would make sense, its not, this is level 30, this is the learning to play phase of the game, which means the dungeons shouldnt come off as something you need a 5 man static group to complete, you still following me?
This dungoen, in its current state, is not worth doing. Whatever loot it drops will be replaced by greens at level 37.
Its not worth the cost in potions, the cost in injury kits. And as for learning how to play, surviving the **** boss for 25 minutes only to die because we were overwhelmed is not a learn to play issue.
So if the arguement is my skill isnt high enough get better, where would you like me to do that? should i chose a different dungeon. Wait, i cant, i cant queue for the previous dungeon, i guess i have to go walk over to that zone, stand there and spam the shout channel and make no progress Exp wise, while trying to get better at dungeons.
If the arguement is my dps is to low, thats a gear thing, rectified by farming dungeons, and since i cant go backwards without doing what i said in my previous paragraph, it means doing the dungeon the game is forcing me to queue for. If i cant do that dungeon because level or gear, then it shouldnt show me that dungeon AS MY ONLY OPTION.
And for the third time, i will point out, that the last wave of mobs, has ADDS THAT CANNOT BE CC, if you werent such arrogant ******, you wouldve noticed that statement the first 2 times i said it.
If you've played many mmorpgs, you'd know that all bosses are like this or the other. And you can either beat it as a group or quit because your gear/group members isn't up to par. There's no way to make a boss fight more exciting, I've fought bosses where the tank MUST die and be replaced, where you must stand at a spot or behind such during attacks, where skills of such must be used during a period.. but with such limited skills you may use in NW I'd assume that the only way to make it remotely challenging is adds and increased hp or high damage attacks which are hard to dodge. It's only after the boss fight that comes the exciting loot.
PS: Just my opinion.
Tier 1, 9700 TR vs 9600 GWF.. TR doubled in dps.. couple days later. Tier 2 epic runs with same GS, GWF > TR in dps.
Does it deserve a rage post on the forum? No.
I'm sure Cryptic will see that only about 10% of the partipants actually finish the dungeon (number made up) and will fix it.
How about you make the boss do the work? Why is the biggest threat in a boss fight the amount of adds he spawns? If thats the case why have a boss at all? Maybe you should play tera and take notes on how the koreans design a boss in an action based game, then come back and tell me the only way to make bosses hard is the send adds.
The four times Ive fought the boss I just kited all the adds around for 10 minutes as a wizard because guardian fighters are useless and claim they can't hold aggro on more than one add at a time (seriously four separate guardians said that). I feel sorry for healers in this boss as everyone is always out of range.
Ok...
So first, grats on passing lvl 30 and getting your paragon powers. Now it's time to actually see how this game is going to progress. If you think this dungeon is hard, just wait! How would you prefer to learn your skills and abilities? The best way to learn is to be thrown to the wolves. Welcome to dungeons in NW! If you want things nice and easy with no challenge or simply being able to continue walking in and collecting loot, you're in the wrong place.
Second, you're right, it's the third dungeon, it's not end game, it's not heroics. It's SO much easier! Yes, this is the learning phase, this is stage 1 of what's coming up.
This dungeon, in it's current state, is amazing! It's fun, extremely challenging for pugs and requires a plan. If you got overwhelmed it's because you failed at the mechanics. My pug wiped about 3x my first time in there before we stopped and said, let's change our tactics. We came up with a plan and won the fight on the 4th attempt.
If we had failed we would have looked at what worked and what didn't, adjusted and tried again. I get the feeling you kept trying the same thing with the same tactics. If it doesn't work the first time, doing it the same way the second will likely result in failure as well!
Wow post BC has conditioned people to easy dungeons, easy raids with free epics. I don't run dungeons pre epic for the gear because it will be replaced. I run them to learn my class better, learn the game better, and to enjoy the challenge of organizing a pug and winning the fight.
Dude dont bother with the troll. Hes probably not even done the fight at all, hes just spewing out bull to seem like hes mr internet.
The fight is not tuned properly for +30. Hell, its even sick challenging if you got a full party of +35.
The best evidence is that...Throne of Idris which comes right after Lair of the Mad Dragon, is actually well tuned and with a fun and awsome end fight.
Fix LotMD, devs.
Face roll Tera you mean? Name ONE single fight in that entire game that is a challenge after the first attempt. Just one, please.
I played that game for 3 weeks, cleared every dungeon and have everything but my boots +12. I promptly walked away. You can easily solo the lvl 58 dungeons for MES(with just +9 gear), the bosses all do the -exact- same thing as their type, over, and over, and over. You can use the BAMs to kill other BAMs... please don't ever use Tera as an excuse. Use Plane of Earth boss fight in EQ for boss mechanics maybe, or almost any of those boss fights really. Use vanilla or BC wow, Naxx pre nerf or T3 version from vanilla.
But Tera... hahahahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahaha*breath*hahahahahahahaah
And a side note, even Tera uses adds in their boss fights. They just summon a second boss at x amount of health that do the same things every other BAM has done prior.
That's great if you can find a PUG that will stick it out. All the groups I've been in after the second or third wipe everyone bails and you've just wasted at least an hour. And that wasn't just on this fight. The Werewolf one (forgot the name) as well people get discouraged and drop group. I tried that event with probably 4-5 different groups. Eventually I ended up out leveling it due to how fast you get XP in this game. Does that mean I suck? Maybe lol as I never played a tank type in a game. That doesn't make it any less discouraging.
Hold on let me get this straight,
You beat Fane of Kaprima hard mode on your first attempt? No thought what so ever, you just figured out one person had to kite the summoners in one room fight he boss in another using their spells to kill them because you did ZERO damage to them otherwise, while breaking the barriers all while in mid fight, no wipes? I believe you.
What about Balder's Temple Hard, you had more then enough dps on the last fight to burn him down on your first attempt before he blinds everyone and kills everyone, no wipes? Wait the first boss, you figured out first attempt no effort that you had to break the tree or be instagibbed, no wipe?
I know youre lying about Kelsaik's Nest hard mode, i can do this for every dungeon.
You know whatelse i can point out, only about 20% of those boss fights flooded you with adds, alll the rest were about DEALING with the boss and what he can do. Not how many bodies he can throw at you.
Okay mate, there's no need to be rude. I can tell you now I've played KR mmos longer than you so you don't need to tell me about their boss designs. As a matter a fact, I've got a 60 in KR Tera and 45 in KR BnS and a 60 in KR Aion. The experiences I've mentioned above ARE FROM THESE GAMES like it or not. Maybe you need to go back and try them again. All bosses have a **** ton of hp and all they do is either nearly one shot you, or have adds which make it slightly difficult. Don't need to get all angry because you're having a hard time switching your play style. I've downed all the bosses thus far in NW, they are not impossible. You just have to know which adds to not worry about and which to just kite.
Agree with this, "Lair of the mad Dragon" is wrongfully tuned, i have played many older games where you had to focus on adds while you at the same time did a little damage to the boss itself, but this is just rediculous, to do this dungeon with 4 random players...i do not se how random players would be able to succesfully kill the end-boss.
First: Adds has way to much HP for a random group of 5 with no communication betwen eachother to actually down.
Second: 1 of the melee adds has a knockdown, if you get knocked down and then the fire pilar thingy spawns on you, you are taking 3k unavoidable damage, atleast if you are a melee character since you WILL be in range for the melee adds knockdown.
Third: Too much HP on the end-boss itself, why do i have to spend SO much time chipping away at the boss health? was this even addresed before OB? just wondering since i think i can get 2-3 levels during the time it takes to actually finish the dungeon, which to me, seems like a big-*** fail dungeon.
There are other things with the encounter that makes it really hard to do with a group of random players not knowing eachother, if i went in with my guild im pretty sure i would be able to do it all quite swiftly, however that is because we would communicate with eachother over TS3 and we know we can play decently if not good
First off..The person who is bragging about GWF at higher levels. Well that is Higher levels not now. Because of the nerf they are trash tier at low levels.
He was really close at being downed. If you would have not had a GWF you could have done it. However, I'm starting to think the op was the GWF. That is the reason why you could not down them. You was holding them back.
This is not a DND type game. It is not based on story, This is a wow light clone. It is bring the class not the player..and if you did not have weaker dps you could have done it.
Be it right or wrong does not matter. I'm just trying to help you, if you are a GWF stay out of dungeons until 40+ please. Thank you for not wasting peoples time.
It says volumes about the (appalling) state of class balance in the game that this (utterly repugnant) advice might actually be helpful.
So by your logic, some who chose to play a GWF should get punished. This is just starting to remind me of WoW.
Correct, It is the reason I rerolled. Not wasting my time and the people who say it gets better in the 30s are morons.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you had a class that could have done dps. It would have got down it is that simple. It has nothing to do with how hard the fight is, but everything to do with your weakest link.