GWF's Role?

wynbjorn · May 2013

Hello fellas. I'm here to get some suggestions and feedback not just complaining.

So I've reached lvl 44 on my GWF, and I find my self wondering.. what is my role in this game?

I don't have the DPS of a Rogue
I don't have the control of a Wizard
I can't tank like the Guardian.

So what am I good for? I've played mixed PvP and PvE and I always end up at the bottom of DPS (even with blue weapon with enchantment in it on my level).

I've respeced 3 times, so I've tried building tank, control and DPS. And I notice little difference.

I would really like some possitive feedback on the GWF. I mean I picked it cause I thought the combat felt most fun, zipping around bashing stuff... But if I'm pointless for a team (PvE and PvP).. I foresee a lonely future..

Any input here is welcome, but please, refer from the "You're just ****/bad/suck" because I keep hearing this from most GWF's in my guild. So it seems to be wide spread.

unjustblade · May 2013

The simple fact of the matter is GWF's have the worst damage modifiers on their abilities in the game and must level up to about level 30+ to even begin approaching viable levels of damage. Even then, only one spec seems to be working and that is Destroyer. Ask yourself why you play a class that for 35 levels is useless while a GF has a 100%+ modifier on encounter abilities and a GWF, having twice the base weapon damage of a GF, and also sacrifices armor and mitigation has a damage modifier on their at wills of about 50%. Play any other class and it will be a breath of fresh air. People will lie to you/be ignorant and tell you that the GWF is a "Defender".

And that is bull ****. Tell me how a class wielding a two handed weapon with no reliable means of mitigation (CW and TR have better, since their shift abilities allow them to dodge) and less hp than a GF is supposed to tank efficiently? Unstoppable? You mean the thing you have up every so often that at best still means you take 50% damage? Yeah, tell me how that beats taking no damage again. The fact is Cryptic needs to give every skill in the GWF repetoire about a 20-30% boost in damage.

lyfebane · May 2013

Yes a GWF is a striker, with some tanking ability and a little bit control. From what I gather it is not right at the moment and the feat paths alittle hard to identify as what they do. If you still like it keep going as I am sure it will change.

AS to the question what 2hander can tank, well one with spells to aid defense/ac/shield, like a paladin or deathknight. But GWF is definately not an excellent tank, just an average or midle of the road one, it should tank better than a wizard/rogue but worse than a GF or tanky types.

terhix · May 2013

unjustblade wrote: »

Even then, only one spec seems to be working and that is Destroyer.

That is factually incorrect, can you stop trolling?

maendor · May 2013

Personally I have always enjoyed the GWF in closed betas and now, but I was aware that it lacked DPS compared to other classes. It took me a while to appreciate what I feel the GWF excels at, that of being an area tank as oppose to the GF who is a boss tank; also I tend to view it as a hybrid tank/DPS.
Currently I have a GWF around level 27 and yesterday it was consistently coming in 2nd place behind the rogue in DPS and kills.
When the mobs spawn and threaten to overwhelm the cleric and wizard I am able to gather them up, as well as tank any secondary bosses that appear and seek to get combat advantage over the GF.
Finally, when soloing I have found the GWF assisted by a companion able to take on any situation, survive and overcome it.

xantris · May 2013

Your job is to kill all the weak adds that love swarming the cleric and making them dead. That's what you are uniquely designed to do better than the control mage and rogue.

Rogues = kill strong adds and boss w/ focused single target damage. Believe it or not, rogues are not particularly good at killing weak adds w/out significantly hurting our single target damage potential.

GWF= kill weak adds(and do supplemental damage on everything else in the process) w/ AoE damage

Control Mage = controlling various adds + supplemental damage

There is a reason that almost every pack and every boss has both strong and weak adds built into the encounter.

xantris · May 2013

lyfebane wrote: »

Yes a GWF is a striker, with some tanking ability and a little bit control. From what I gather it is not right at the moment and the feat paths alittle hard to identify as what they do. If you still like it keep going as I am sure it will change.

AS to the question what 2hander can tank, well one with spells to aid defense/ac/shield, like a paladin or deathknight. But GWF is definately not an excellent tank, just an average or midle of the road one, it should tank better than a wizard/rogue but worse than a GF or tanky types.

A GWF is not a Striker in D&D 4e, they are a Defender. I'm unaware of Cryptic changing their designation to a Striker, maybe I'm wrong. The only Striker currently in the game is the Trickster Rogue.

If anything, the GWF probably needs more tankage and threat abilities; not more damage. That's the direction I'd rather see them take personally... a pseudo DPS AoE tank with better AoE threat than a Guardian but less mitigation and single target threat.

In D&D 4e, the Barbarian will fill the role of a 2-handed STRIKER; which is why it doesn't make sense for the GWF to fill that role.

wynbjorn · May 2013

maendor wrote: »

Personally I have always enjoyed the GWF in closed betas and now, but I was aware that it lacked DPS compared to other classes. It took me a while to appreciate what I feel the GWF excels at, that of being an area tank as oppose to the GF who is a boss tank; also I tend to view it as a hybrid tank/DPS.
Currently I have a GWF around level 27 and yesterday it was consistently coming in 2nd place behind the rogue in DPS and kills.
When the mobs spawn and threaten to overwhelm the cleric and wizard I am able to gather them up, as well as tank any secondary bosses that appear and seek to get combat advantage over the GF.
Finally, when soloing I have found the GWF assisted by a companion able to take on any situation, survive and overcome it.

Yes, I agree with the above. You can off tank, how you come 2'nd DPS after a rogue, well I can only imagine you had other GWF's in the group or they lacked gear? (I for one keep my gear top notched, and speced in the "berserker line")

Soloing PvE, sure, no problem especially the first 35 levels (it gets a bit tougher in later zones).

I might buy another respec and try to focus on all the AoE dps abilities some more.

Thanks for your input guys.

fcrowles · May 2013

I'm level 60 and I only have a 6400 gear score. I usually place second right behind TR and above CW when it comes to damage in heroic dungeons. I've main tanked as well. We can hold threat fairly well. I run down the destroyer path maximizing my damage potential. Gear wise I shoot for Power -> Recovery -> Defense. The whole goal is to try and keep unstoppable up as much as possible using whatever method you have to. Unstoppable gives us much faster AP gain than any other class by far and Slam is FANTASTIC when you get the 25% power bonus. I usually use 2 dailies for everyone else's one. I don't save them for emergencies. I use them anytime there are 3 or more enemies or two really powerful ones. When in unstoppable mode a well timed Indomitable battle strike fills up half your daily bar. It can also crit for 14,000 damage + the DoT you get from your feats. It's rare I'll beat a TR in damage and that's fine but I almost always beat a CW. Believe it or not GWF is not a face rolling class. It takes skill and precise timing.

wynbjorn · May 2013

fcrowles wrote: »

I'm level 60 and I only have a 6400 gear score. I usually place second right behind TR and above CW when it comes to damage in heroic dungeons. I've main tanked as well. We can hold threat fairly well. I run down the destroyer path maximizing my damage potential. Gear wise I shoot for Power -> Recovery -> Defense. The whole goal is to try and keep unstoppable up as much as possible using whatever method you have to. Unstoppable gives us much faster AP gain than any other class by far and Slam is FANTASTIC when you get the 25% power bonus. I usually use 2 dailies for everyone else's one. I don't save them for emergencies. I use them anytime there are 3 or more enemies or two really powerful ones. When in unstoppable mode a well timed Indomitable battle strike fills up half your daily bar. It can also crit for 14,000 damage + the DoT you get from your feats. It's rare I'll beat a TR in damage and that's fine but I almost always beat a CW. Believe it or not GWF is not a face rolling class. It takes skill and precise timing.

I have to say, I have noticed that I can use my dailys more often then most.
Would you mind posting your entire spec?

rogosh69 · May 2013

fcrowles wrote: »

I'm level 60 and I only have a 6400 gear score. I usually place second right behind TR and above CW when it comes to damage in heroic dungeons. I've main tanked as well. We can hold threat fairly well. I run down the destroyer path maximizing my damage potential. Gear wise I shoot for Power -> Recovery -> Defense. The whole goal is to try and keep unstoppable up as much as possible using whatever method you have to. Unstoppable gives us much faster AP gain than any other class by far and Slam is FANTASTIC when you get the 25% power bonus. I usually use 2 dailies for everyone else's one. I don't save them for emergencies. I use them anytime there are 3 or more enemies or two really powerful ones. When in unstoppable mode a well timed Indomitable battle strike fills up half your daily bar. It can also crit for 14,000 damage + the DoT you get from your feats. It's rare I'll beat a TR in damage and that's fine but I almost always beat a CW. Believe it or not GWF is not a face rolling class. It takes skill and precise timing.

What about crit and armor pen? As a pvper I would like to be stronger. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I am only 27 atm but am looking to do more damage. I see a TR open on me with a 1200 hit and I open with 270 lol.

lyfebane · May 2013

xantris wrote: »

A GWF is not a Striker in D&D 4e, they are a Defender. I'm unaware of Cryptic changing their designation to a Striker, maybe I'm wrong. The only Striker currently in the game is the Trickster Rogue.

If anything, the GWF probably needs more tankage and threat abilities; not more damage. That's the direction I'd rather see them take personally... a pseudo DPS AoE tank with better AoE threat than a Guardian but less mitigation and single target threat.

In D&D 4e, the Barbarian will fill the role of a 2-handed STRIKER; which is why it doesn't make sense for the GWF to fill that role.

I must admit I have never actually seen what role a GWF is, I just took it from http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=799381

"Role: Damage Dealer and Secondary Defender" as i thought damage dealers are generally strikers, but it could be a dps defender I suppose?

djleber · May 2013

Im lvl 41 with a GWF and im starting to see the damage going up, when i was mid 20's the GF was out damaging me. i ran a dungeon just before and smashed the GF and was just below the CW. From what ive been reading the closer i get to 60 the more my damage will go up and im fine being behind a rogue in total damage its understandable, we have more survivability than them so its a sacrifice but worth it in my opinion. i like the playstyle of the GWF and in PVP ive rolled some rogues too simply due to the controlling aspect - stopping them from getting their combo off and that i have more life an mitigation where as in earlier levels i would be absolutely facerolled

fcrowles · May 2013

rogosh69 wrote: »

What about crit and armor pen? As a pvper I would like to be stronger. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I am only 27 atm but am looking to do more damage. I see a TR open on me with a 1200 hit and I open with 270 lol.

I made a guide for GWF, there is a small pvp bit on the bottom. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?171321-Thorin-s-Mighty-Axe-GWF-Guide&p=2397381#post2397381

daradal · May 2013

fcrowles wrote: »

I'm level 60 and I only have a 6400 gear score. I usually place second right behind TR and above CW when it comes to damage in heroic dungeons. I've main tanked as well. We can hold threat fairly well. I run down the destroyer path maximizing my damage potential. Gear wise I shoot for Power -> Recovery -> Defense. The whole goal is to try and keep unstoppable up as much as possible using whatever method you have to. Unstoppable gives us much faster AP gain than any other class by far and Slam is FANTASTIC when you get the 25% power bonus. I usually use 2 dailies for everyone else's one. I don't save them for emergencies. I use them anytime there are 3 or more enemies or two really powerful ones. When in unstoppable mode a well timed Indomitable battle strike fills up half your daily bar. It can also crit for 14,000 damage + the DoT you get from your feats. It's rare I'll beat a TR in damage and that's fine but I almost always beat a CW. Believe it or not GWF is not a face rolling class. It takes skill and precise timing.

So using unstoppable and slam will fill up the daily bar faster? Any gear or something like that help with that too?

wynbjorn · May 2013

daradal wrote: »

So using unstoppable and slam will fill up the daily bar faster? Any gear or something like that help with that too?

Recovery helps

unjustblade · May 2013

terhix wrote: »

That is factually incorrect, can you stop trolling?

Destroyer grants greatest DPS. Instigator comes 2nd. And sentinel is broken, seeing as the GWF cannot tank effectively. Period. You want to actually play the GWF to know what you're talking about? I'm glad you love the GWF. So do I, but you need to take your blindfold off and realize that it's the WORST class in the game currently.

forsakenlich1 · May 2013

whats the deal with SS vs WMS on single targets?

kgl7 · May 2013

I think the biggest hurdle for GWF is the 30+ levels that needs to be dealt with before actually feeling the true power of the class.

Rogues comes across as being LETHAL early on and their damage levels stays high, but they survivability is greatly diminished as everything begins to hit harder and harder.

I've seen numerous streams with rogues having a bit of trouble at level 60, some better than others, but never have I seen a GWF at level 60 have problems to stay alive and kill several mobs at once.

Their role is defined. They are a defensive striker. They grant survivability, dps, aoe dps and lesser amounts of CC to any party.

unjustblade · May 2013

kgl7 wrote: »

I think the biggest hurdle for GWF is the 30+ levels that needs to be dealt with before actually feeling the true power of the class.

Rogues comes across as being LETHAL early on and their damage levels stays high, but they survivability is greatly diminished as everything begins to hit harder and harder.

I've seen numerous streams with rogues having a bit of trouble at level 60, some better than others, but never have I seen a GWF at level 60 have problems to stay alive and kill several mobs at once.

Their role is defined. They are a defensive striker. They grant survivability, dps, aoe dps and lesser amounts of CC to any party.

Completely agree. The GWF needs work to bring it more in line with other classes for the first 30-35 levels. Every other class comes out able to do it's job effectively while the GWF has to wait at least 30 levels.

taemekeg · May 2013

People need to learn that GWF is not a striker class directly, not a tank class directly or a control directly.

It dabbles in all of it while being great at none, jack of all trades.

GWF's dps is still not bad for the other utility based skills they get.

I believe it goes like this:

Survivability
Guardian Fighter > Great Weapon Fighter > Devoted Cleric > Trickster Rogue > Control Wizard

Damage
Trickster Rouge > Control Wizard > Great Weapon Fighter > Devoted Cleric > Guardian Fighter

Control
Control Wizard > Trickster Rouge > Great Weapon Fighter > Guardian Fighter > Devoted Cleric

Now this is according to the 4E rule set which the game is based off and if I have anything wrong according to that ruleset, please correct me.

ragerblade82 · May 2013

taemekeg wrote: »

People need to learn that GWF is not a striker class directly, not a tank class directly or a control directly.

It dabbles in all of it while being great at none, jack of all trades.

GWF's dps is still not bad for the other utility based skills they get.

I believe it goes like this:

Survivability
Guardian Fighter > Great Weapon Fighter > Devoted Cleric > Trickster Rogue > Control Wizard

Damage
Trickster Rouge > Control Wizard > Great Weapon Fighter > Devoted Cleric > Guardian Fighter

Control
Control Wizard > Trickster Rouge > Great Weapon Fighter > Guardian Fighter > Devoted Cleric

Now this is according to the 4E rule set which the game is based off and if I have anything wrong according to that ruleset, please correct me.

Problem is, that it does not play like that at all.

Clerics at lower levels out damage you and Out Survive you.

To a lot of DnD fans. High levels mean nothing to us. It is the path to get to it, it is the adventures and fun you have.

So why the **** does a cleric do my job but better at lower levels?

dantethewarrior · May 2013

There role is to hit like a wet noodle and drink 40 potions per dungeon just to survive. Also ignore anyone who says 'They get better at higher level'.

OH, MY CLASS GETS BETTER AS I LEVEL? WHO WOULD OF THOUGHT!?

They are still bad at high level.

taemekeg · May 2013

ragerblade82 wrote: »

Problem is, that it does not play like that at all.

Clerics at lower levels out damage you and Out Survive you.

To a lot of DnD fans. High levels mean nothing to us. It is the path to get to it, it is the adventures and fun you have.

So why the **** does a cleric do my job but better at lower levels?

If you haven't played MMORPG's before, there is always one or two classes that are underpowered at lower levels but they balance out as they level up.

This can be due to a few issues. A lot of the time it can be directly related to a gear issue, a lot of players simply don't stay on top of the gear curve given the speed they level, so they fall 10+ levels behind in gear level.

Secondly, if you are a GWF and stacking armor penetration, you are doing it wrong.

Thirdly, how are you spec'd in powers and feats? Where is your ability score sheet at and where are you spending your points in your score card?

In our experience in our guild, GWF's fit that exact description as above. Thats all I can say.

mconosrep · May 2013

taemekeg wrote: »

Now this is according to the 4E rule set which the game is based off and if I have anything wrong according to that ruleset, please correct me.

I see the issue

That is what is supposed to be the case in this game also (I imagine). Sadly it is not........

w01fe01 · May 2013

ok im only a lowly level 18 GWF, but ive had ZERO issues leveling. save for some lag at the beginning. also to the guy saying only destroyer is viable. destroyer is the only PVE DPS paragon tree. just looking at the trees skills its plain to see what they are about.

Destroyer=damage
instigator=pvp
Sentinal=tank

yes i believe instigator is pvp focused, just by looking at the skills. runspeed incrase when you place a CC on someone? damage boost when your teams being hit? i think it has some cross potential as dps, but is better for pvp then destroyer imo.

unjustblade · May 2013

w01fe01 wrote: »

ok im only a lowly level 18 GWF, but ive had ZERO issues leveling. save for some lag at the beginning. also to the guy saying only destroyer is viable. destroyer is the only PVE DPS paragon tree. just looking at the trees skills its plain to see what they are about.

Destroyer=damage
instigator=pvp
Sentinal=tank

yes i believe instigator is pvp focused, just by looking at the skills. runspeed incrase when you place a CC on someone? damage boost when your teams being hit? i think it has some cross potential as dps, but is better for pvp then destroyer imo.

Try another class and see how much easier it is and how many less pots you use.

ragerblade82 · May 2013

taemekeg wrote: »

If you haven't played MMORPG's before, there is always one or two classes that are underpowered at lower levels but they balance out as they level up.

This can be due to a few issues. A lot of the time it can be directly related to a gear issue, a lot of players simply don't stay on top of the gear curve given the speed they level, so they fall 10+ levels behind in gear level.

Secondly, if you are a GWF and stacking armor penetration, you are doing it wrong.

Thirdly, how are you spec'd in powers and feats? Where is your ability score sheet at and where are you spending your points in your score card?

In our experience in our guild, GWF's fit that exact description as above. Thats all I can say.

Power and Recovery is how I build my GWF. So I can get the most out of my skills and be able to keep up slam.

However, I refuse to group with people because GWF is just a weak link at low levels. Not worth my time. I'm sure they will be great at high level, but if I don't enjoy getting up to it. The class is trash.

saviorgun · May 2013

About to stream some tier 2 epic dungeons as a DPS GWF www.twitch.tv/saviorms

djleber · May 2013

forsakenlich1 wrote: »

whats the deal with SS vs WMS on single targets?

what do you mean? the attack speed, the overall dps?

w01fe01 · May 2013

unjustblade wrote: »

Try another class and see how much easier it is and how many less pots you use.

if this game was any easier id fall asleep at my keyboard, so thats actually not making me want to try another class at the moment.

GWF's Role?

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