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Important Tanking Mechanic For Guardians!

xirrixirri Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 27 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
Any would be and current guardian is soon to find this out I hope, as I just did running a few skirmish yesterday. Tanking the boss relies on your Mark - there are many ways to put a mark on but one must realise, if the boss/mob hits you (that meaning if you take actual hitpoint damage, blocking things is a-okay) you lose your mark. I was able to keep bosses on me indefinetly if I just slapped on a mark and focused on blocking and replenishing my guard meter - whenever they go for a backstab its important you stop attacking immediately and reposition your shield right way to block it or otherwise you get hit for one fifth of your health and drop aggro. Granted, you'll lose your guard meter fast in some cases, and then only positioning and kiting is gonna keep you on the aggro charts at all until you can go back to taking a beating with your shield.

Now I dont know is this a gamewide feature, I would assume its not and there are bosses somewhere that break the chain, but its one of the reasons companions tank so well. They have the ai holding up that shield like a pro and it seems can take indefinitive amount of punishment without breaking marks and doing actual damage to the boss.

And yes, the sad fact is that we are at the bottom of the dps chart, heal chart and even tanking chart.

However, the best guardians should always have the least damage received, if they can block 90% of it.

Another important thing most will soon find out that while you CAN block an aoe and its damage just by holding up your shield, unless you position yourself behind the centerpoint of the aoe diagonal to the monster thats casting you will still be knocked down/stunned/dazed/generally abused in unpleasant ways. Which often also breaks your mark and you lose aggro faster than a wet paper tissue bag folds.


Bad case scenario:

MMM - - - - - - - /
\
MMM - - - - - - - |---G-o
|
MMM - - - - - - - \__________/

Good case scenario:

MMM - - - - - - - /
\
MMM - - - - - - - |
o-G---|
MMM - - - - - - - \__________/

M is for monster, o is for centerpoint and G is for guardian.

Remember kids, there is no tanking when it comes to damage over times. If you have the mark on and boss is focused on you, its a-okay to let him come to you instead of you lunging at him and standing in the aoe like a pro dwarven tank.

Not all of us are dwarven!

Also, Tactician's ultimate which lets you regen action points when being beat on even if youre not blocking is ****ing overpowered. Villains Menace all the time!
Post edited by xirri on
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Comments

  • xirrixirri Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Also I want to add - the threat generation is not broken, its just different. I manage to tank just fine when I know that my job is only hold one guy on me, occasionally accidently aoe taunt everyone on me for 2 seconds and then focus on blocking the living bejeesus out of power attacks. To that extend, the feat that gives us 5%/10%/15% threat generation is frikken worthless, almost all threat generation tools are (except the Tacticians lunging strike, that really snaps the attention onehit even without mark), its that 99% boost to threat we do to marked targets that really is the key to holding attention and the everliving ****ton of singletarget damage we must do whilst its on - I would wager Villains Menace + Knights Challenge are the two most efficient things you can pull off between boss attacks to keep attention.

    And not getting hit in the first place with hp damage. Funny how the tanking class that traditionally is supposed to take all the damage for the group actually suffers when it tries to do that at its intended role, and instead needs to actively AVOID damage. =P
  • xirrixirri Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Uh, any opinions? Anyone? Or then I am just bumbing this for great justice.
  • kirth1kirth1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Thank you for the write up. Just made an alt GF to play when my regular group isn't available and was struggling, thinking that everything should be hitting me all the time. I will try out your suggestions.
  • grekthorangrekthoran Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 68
    edited April 2013
    That picture explains a lot, thanks for that. I feel kinda silly now not having figured that out myself.
  • blackwolllllfblackwolllllf Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    nice info, thanks mate!

    BTW I have been playing GF and I honestly prefer protector or conqueror tree
  • oreoz2573oreoz2573 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Fun fact that you lose your mark when taking damage. I wasn't aware.

    Is that both your tab mark and your taunt mark?
    "If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • oreoz2573oreoz2573 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Fun fact that you lose your mark when taking damage. I wasn't aware.

    Is that both your tab mark and your taunt mark?
    "If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    So your better off using the passive that allows threat to build over time via marks... mark them with tab and then run away as fast as you can so they can never hit you to hold agro? xD

    I knew that targets lost mark if you hit them with any damage skills other that when your behind your shield (Guarding) but I did not know mark was removed in a mob hits you and causes HP damage.. seams rather odd to me.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • karremaniakarremania Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 3
    edited April 2013
    mewbrey wrote: »
    So your better off using the passive that allows threat to build over time via marks... mark them with tab and then run away as fast as you can so they can never hit you to hold agro? xD

    I knew that targets lost mark if you hit them with any damage skills other that when your behind your shield (Guarding) but I did not know mark was removed in a mob hits you and causes HP damage.. seams rather odd to me.
    Funny how people say agro isnt broken, its different.. but different shouldnt defy any logic about tanking in the first place. It removes when u get dmg, but same time it increase threat if you strike them.. doesnt compute (the few odd cases you can hit him, but wont get hit.. slim).

    Skirmish and dungeons, i just along and wack stuff. I'm not even bothering about trying to take agro, loose it few seconds later or my guard is broken when 3+ mobs hit me. At the end, i should have made a rogue, but now im just a rogue with a sword and a shield :D
  • xirrixirri Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    This is nothing but a sneaky bump, since theres an influx of new guardians about!
  • novronnovron Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    karremania wrote: »
    Funny how people say agro isnt broken, its different.. but different shouldnt defy any logic about tanking in the first place. It removes when u get dmg, but same time it increase threat if you strike them.. doesnt compute (the few odd cases you can hit him, but wont get hit.. slim).

    What doesn't compute? All damage causes threat, this isn't the only class in the game.

    He says keep your shield up to maintain the most threat.
  • arktourosxarktourosx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    Yea basically you figured it out.

    It's SUPPOSED to work where if you hit a marked target with any other attack other than a Guarded attack (which you get at 10 in your At-Wills while guarding) the Mark is supposed to come off. Unfortunately it's bugged or they changed it and never updated the tool tip and you lose your Mark the second the mob hits you with an attack.

    This basically creates a mini game of managing your Guard Meter to continue to generate threat (which when fully spec'd into with other passives up your Mark will allow you to generate 300-500% threat).

    Said mini game is actually quite difficult later on because you will run into bosses who will instantly break your Guard Meter even with +15% onto the meter. It also makes it difficult because when you taunt you will pull too much threat and also break your Guard Meter very fast if you're tanking the right kinda mobs that deal a lot of base damage. There's also virtually no way to regenerate your Guard Meter except like 10% at a time which is pretty bad and no where near enough when every hit out of a boss will drop your Guard Meter to nothing. While you can certainly take the hits still with a large amount of HP and Defense...the problem is you now stop generating extra threat.

    I have a couple of videos I'm compiling from a pretty good run I had in Cragmire Crypts (it's 45 minutes long so I split it up) that I should have done compiled and uploaded to Youtube later today that I will link in this post. I don't think I'm "MLGPRO420" or anything but I do a pretty decent job at keeping the big baddies off my allies.
    nwsignature.jpg
  • hoistalldaybrohoistalldaybro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Its all about positioning, using the mark, making use of our splash dmg. That jab that you do when your shield is up is an aggro puller and it has splash dmg. That being spammed tied with the aoe pull every 15s should be more than enough. Single target aggro shouldn't even be an issue. Also dont get discouraged if you lose an add or two, you are meant to. A lot of those trash mobs are light work for the DD's. Make sure you keep yourself at a good angle to hit all of the mobs and stay on top of it. Think of these tanks as aggro generators instead of aggro factories. You don't have a set base aggro but rather you can generate it. I also find gearing for crit over power is helping out too. Keep that power at a good rate but dont sleep on the crit. It helps with teh aggro generation.
  • ragnarok1011ragnarok1011 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    xirri wrote: »
    Also I want to add - the threat generation is not broken, its just different. I manage to tank just fine when I know that my job is only hold one guy on me, occasionally accidently aoe taunt everyone on me for 2 seconds and then focus on blocking the living bejeesus out of power attacks. To that extend, the feat that gives us 5%/10%/15% threat generation is frikken worthless, almost all threat generation tools are (except the Tacticians lunging strike, that really snaps the attention onehit even without mark), its that 99% boost to threat we do to marked targets that really is the key to holding attention and the everliving ****ton of singletarget damage we must do whilst its on - I would wager Villains Menace + Knights Challenge are the two most efficient things you can pull off between boss attacks to keep attention.

    And not getting hit in the first place with hp damage. Funny how the tanking class that traditionally is supposed to take all the damage for the group actually suffers when it tries to do that at its intended role, and instead needs to actively AVOID damage. =P

    If fighting 1 boss and want to keep your ret focused on the boss, just put it on boss and hold down the ctrl key. While the control key is held, you will stay locked onto that boss.
  • hoistalldaybrohoistalldaybro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    oh and when your guard meter breaks just drop shield and spam tide of iron. 10% of guard meter comes back every time you use it. :D
  • ragnarok1011ragnarok1011 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    Its all about positioning, using the mark, making use of our splash dmg. That jab that you do when your shield is up is an aggro puller and it has splash dmg. That being spammed tied with the aoe pull every 15s should be more than enough. Single target aggro shouldn't even be an issue. Also dont get discouraged if you lose an add or two, you are meant to. A lot of those trash mobs are light work for the DD's. Make sure you keep yourself at a good angle to hit all of the mobs and stay on top of it. Think of these tanks as aggro generators instead of aggro factories. You don't have a set base aggro but rather you can generate it. I also find gearing for crit over power is helping out too. Keep that power at a good rate but dont sleep on the crit. It helps with teh aggro generation.

    Exactly. AOE taunt helps to replenish guard as well.
  • mrglad8mrglad8 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Thanks for the info! :)
  • arktourosxarktourosx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82VYzybSKYM&list=PLE7ECNfjzxgAmqEaoeS_73klDf8C9mgGt

    Video series of me tanking in Cragmire Crypts as promised.
    nwsignature.jpg
  • baconnaisebaconnaise Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The way the mark and threat system on guardian fighters works is different but wrong for the class imo. Trickster rogues should be the class worried about getting hit or a control wizard. I'm not sure why rogues aren't reliant on this system to keep the damage they have up. It makes more sense that way due to dodge and tp on rogues and cw classes. Rogues mark a single target and have to stay on it to do the damage that they already can do. Makes perfect sense there and makes taunting in pvp somewhat niche but useful.

    I like that the guard system is similar to tera and I think the act of blocking should gen higher than normal threat. The mark system could be improved to include aoe marks that gen threat. Some have already posted about how regen on guard is problematic and I agree. It's painfully lacking in this area. I could go on about my little gripes with the class but I'll play whatever is most fun at the moment which happens to be my CW and Rogue. They will eventually get around to it as end game seems to be a priority (good) with them. GF's being able to tank one mob reliably most of the time and losing guard on the rest after one hit won't stay forever.
  • arktourosxarktourosx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    baconnaise wrote: »
    The way the mark and threat system on guardian fighters works is different but wrong for the class imo. Trickster rogues should be the class worried about getting hit or a control wizard. I'm not sure why rogues aren't reliant on this system to keep the damage they have up. It makes more sense that way due to dodge and tp on rogues and cw classes. Rogues mark a single target and have to stay on it to do the damage that they already can do. Makes perfect sense there and makes taunting in pvp somewhat niche but useful.

    I like that the guard system is similar to tera and I think the act of blocking should gen higher than normal threat. The mark system could be improved to include aoe marks that gen threat. Some have already posted about how regen on guard is problematic and I agree. It's painfully lacking in this area. I could go on about my little gripes with the class but I'll play whatever is most fun at the moment which happens to be my CW and Rogue. They will eventually get around to it as end game seems to be a priority (good) with them. GF's being able to tank one mob reliably most of the time and losing guard on the rest after one hit won't stay forever.

    The big problem with generating high amounts of Guard is PvP basically. As it stands I'm virtually unstoppable against most classes who have it easy in PvP because I block all their big moves/CC. Giving us more ways to generate Guard would basically make us unkillable without having 3+ people on us as it's almost too easy to tank 2 people as is (but generally you still go down).

    What I would like to see them do is make Mark stay on the target with a small duration (5 seconds with a 5 second recast) and using "Aggravating Strike" and "Shield Slam" (basically the two At-Wills while Guarding) refresh the duration on the ability. This would allow us to continously generate threat while still relying on the Guard mechanic heavily not only for survival but also still for continued threat generation. Aggravating Strike is still our hardest hitting At-Will (and supposedly generates more threat according to the description) so it's not like we could just taunt and stay out the entire time but it'd instead offer a smoother play style that isn't 100% reliable on your Guard Meter which can disappear super fast against certain bosses/encounters.

    However given the descriptions of a lot of our abilities there are either a lot of undocumented changes that they never bothered to update the tool tips for or the skills are just flat out broken at this stage. I'm kinda hoping the later but expecting the former.

    What makes the Companions so good, especially the rock guy, is they have Hard taunts that force the target to attack them regardless of threat. That basically wipes out everyone else's threat table when it taunts and pulls the mob onto them. If I didn't think control wizards were due for a heavy nerfing I'd be pretty tempted to make one and drop the $30 on the stupid OP golem tank.
    nwsignature.jpg
  • guktergukter Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    arktourosx wrote: »
    The big problem with generating high amounts of Guard is PvP basically. As it stands I'm virtually unstoppable against most classes who have it easy in PvP because I block all their big moves/CC. Giving us more ways to generate Guard would basically make us unkillable without having 3+ people on us as it's almost too easy to tank 2 people as is (but generally you still go down).

    What I would like to see them do is make Mark stay on the target with a small duration (5 seconds with a 5 second recast) and using "Aggravating Strike" and "Shield Slam" (basically the two At-Wills while Guarding) refresh the duration on the ability. This would allow us to continously generate threat while still relying on the Guard mechanic heavily not only for survival but also still for continued threat generation. Aggravating Strike is still our hardest hitting At-Will (and supposedly generates more threat according to the description) so it's not like we could just taunt and stay out the entire time but it'd instead offer a smoother play style that isn't 100% reliable on your Guard Meter which can disappear super fast against certain bosses/encounters.

    However given the descriptions of a lot of our abilities there are either a lot of undocumented changes that they never bothered to update the tool tips for or the skills are just flat out broken at this stage. I'm kinda hoping the later but expecting the former.

    What makes the Companions so good, especially the rock guy, is they have Hard taunts that force the target to attack them regardless of threat. That basically wipes out everyone else's threat table when it taunts and pulls the mob onto them. If I didn't think control wizards were due for a heavy nerfing I'd be pretty tempted to make one and drop the $30 on the stupid OP golem tank.

    Aggravating Strike is like a small taunt, not per ce a high threat one. Or so I understood myself playing around with a friend playing a cleric and doing some hard-ish Foundries with him, testing the tank mechanics. I must say that I noticed also this, that the mark + block system seemed to be the only way to keep aggro reliant, but I do think it's a bit odd then.
    Admittedly GWF:s are supposed to help add-tank in dungeons or so is their not so official description but I'd still like to be able to do something else than keep my shield up as a -main tank-. There are so many useful moves after all + I refuse to accept, that the 5/10/15% Threat feat would be totally useless. I can keep aggro on me with some good power and really learning and trying my best to "dps" everything in sight, but not enough sadly.
    I really personally as a tank, would wish they'd give us "more". Or, for me to learn better to use my skills to my own, and my friends / parties advantage.

    Edit: then again, that is why GWF:s are around and why certain aspects work with this so well. You can have a control wizard stun etc so you can regain your shield counter and so forth. The more and more I think on this, the more and more I begin to understand it, but somehow not like it so much. I liked Teras Lancers fex, even if the game itself was a horrid fest of ... well, not so nice words.
  • arktourosxarktourosx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 177 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    gukter wrote: »
    Aggravating Strike is like a small taunt, not per ce a high threat one. Or so I understood myself playing around with a friend playing a cleric and doing some hard-ish Foundries with him, testing the tank mechanics. I must say that I noticed also this, that the mark + block system seemed to be the only way to keep aggro reliant, but I do think it's a bit odd then.
    Admittedly GWF:s are supposed to help add-tank in dungeons or so is their not so official description but I'd still like to be able to do something else than keep my shield up as a -main tank-. There are so many useful moves after all + I refuse to accept, that the 5/10/15% Threat feat would be totally useless. I can keep aggro on me with some good power and really learning and trying my best to "dps" everything in sight, but not enough sadly.
    I really personally as a tank, would wish they'd give us "more". Or, for me to learn better to use my skills to my own, and my friends / parties advantage.

    Well so far the only trouble I have keeping aggro on anything big/medium no matter the group is when people are going crazy, playing wrong or bring out the Tank Companions. In any and all of those cases I respond by basically removing Enhanced Mark and just going DPS myself because there's basically no point in trying to tank at that stage.

    However I will say I've run more than a few groups who kinda follow my lead and the runs turn into super smooth and fast runs where I'm pulling (Mark has like FOREVER range) to the group and tanking the big stuff so it doesn't get on the squishies. In these kinds of groups I have literally no problems holding aggro what so ever on anything I want.

    Kinda hoping that later on with Shield Master and either "Into the Fray" or "Iron Warrior" will be sufficient to keep Guard going so we can keep dealing enhanced threat as well as that the Man at Arms companion stops being so effective at holding threat later on and just dies off so I can actually do my role. Of course then I'll be hoping no one has that ridiculous Golem companion :/
    nwsignature.jpg
  • willstrwillstr Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 79
    edited May 2013
    Great work!! It is making a lot more sense now that defending is taken into consideration than attacking for GF, after all, he is a GUARDIAN first then a fighter. Really liked this thread:)
  • xirrixirri Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    That which goes bump in the night...!
  • tibberton1tibberton1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 83
    edited May 2013
    Once you get to the stage where you get Threatening Rush (At-Will, small rush, hits for moderate damage, marks the target and everything around it), aggro generation gets quite a bit easier. That free mark on everything gets you off to a good start.
    A Guardian Fighter Blog:

    guardianfighter.com
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    xirri wrote: »
    That which goes bump in the night...!

    for the night is dark and full of terrors
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • ugibugibugiugibugibugi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 40
    edited May 2013
    noticed so far, that a fair share of bosses resets aggro, or choices to go for random targets. Tanking in NW is no where the same as in other mmos. found myself having to be add controlling and just kite big bursts from boss instead.

    Good read tho, OP delivers. And for all the GF out there, Marking target is your friend!
  • kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    arktourosx wrote: »
    However I will say I've run more than a few groups who kinda follow my lead and the runs turn into super smooth and fast runs where I'm pulling (Mark has like FOREVER range) to the group and tanking the big stuff so it doesn't get on the squishies. In these kinds of groups I have literally no problems holding aggro what so ever on anything I want.

    Kinda hoping that later on with Shield Master and either "Into the Fray" or "Iron Warrior" will be sufficient to keep Guard going so we can keep dealing enhanced threat as well as that the Man at Arms companion stops being so effective at holding threat later on and just dies off so I can actually do my role. Of course then I'll be hoping no one has that ridiculous Golem companion :/

    I'm with you on playing the lead role. As a Dwarven GF since Alpha, I've learned that GF's should be the ones to lead Raids. Reasons? We have Into The Fray, Frontline Surge and all the Defense to take on the mobs.

    With "Into the Fray" GF's immediately give that HUGE +4 speed and +10% AP bonus to all party members, which makes a massive and quite noticeable improvement to players. People are willing to let GF's lead just to get that alone it seems... It's a drug people want more of.

    With "Frontline Surge" GF's can knock over swaths of enemies, making it easy pickings for Rogues and Wizzies. Thus, breaking the ice into combat and really kicking it off.

    Referencing "Iron Warrior", I find it useful versus bosses when they are <50% and dishing out AOE, but utterly lacking versus mobs. I'd suggest swapping it in/out only for bosses.

    FYI: I don't have Galeb the Golem (She's awesome though), but I do have a Honey Badger :P
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
  • unholydiscounholydisco Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Hey, had a question about feats. Dose combat advantage also apply to the mobs we are tanking as well, do they use Combat Advantage? If so would "Ubiquitous Shield" be something to go after? It reduces the amount of damage you take from those who use combat advantage, so would that help you in sustaining blocking more as you attack from behind your shield to not lose your mark placed on targets?
  • ugibugibugiugibugibugi Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 40
    edited May 2013
    kolbe11 wrote: »
    Referencing "Iron Warrior", I find it useful versus bosses when they are <50% and dishing out AOE, but utterly lacking versus mobs. I'd suggest swapping it in/out only for bosses.

    Iron warrior so far i have found to be far subpar compared to example into the fray or (god name just skips me, but the one mitigating 50% of dmg taken by party).

    What builds do people tend to go with , so far been using: features: shield talent - enhanced mark | encounter: Enforced Threat - Frontline Surge - the 50% mitigation one - at will : cleave + (threatening rush?) - daily: villians menace - terrifying impact

    The overall prone control stacked with the aoe marking from the rush, makes it a good starter to build the threat fast, so i have a stable advantage early, so i can dodge more without fearing to lose the mobs, plus the mitigator, builds a fair share of threat and makes sure the stupid TR dont get gibbed ^^.
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