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Clerics end game a broken class is this being looked at by PW???

shingyeeshingyee Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 55
edited May 2013 in PvE Discussion
PWE User
Join Date: Dec 2012






As Best as I can tell cleric is prety much a broken class end game.

1.We caint heal as good as heal pots or as fast.
2. We caint tank as well.
3. We caint dps as wel.
4. We caint heal at all and not get aggro, I am not talking about Over healing and getting aggro.
5. We caint choose in the middle of the massive who we are healing with all the movement that has to happen to avoid red circles.
6. Groups complain because a lot of clerics are just standing their doing nothing trying not to get the 6-12 elits that spawned on us and die, and get locked out of the encounter lol.:mad:
Post edited by shingyee on
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Comments

  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You are doing it wrong ... and your group is WAY WRONG ...
    Watch good end game groups ... 1 of every class ... the game is just designed differently then what people are used to ... Example the green dragon fight Idris I think ... they use a wizard to kite the boss and EVERYONE including the tank handles adds ... the cleric builds as an OT/Healer ... look at some of the high end builds and the high end gear ... a lot has deflection on it ... they intended you to be mobile and the group to have to shift off of the main boss ... and as far as dps ... if you are aoeing and not crushing damage charts ... gotta come to some self realizations man ... up your game because clerics are beastly dps and amazing OT/Healers/Buff/Debuff depending on what specific role you are filling ... Epic dungeons require serious coordination and players
  • graulziggygraulziggy Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    You are doing it wrong ... and your group is WAY WRONG ...
    Watch good end game groups ... 1 of every class ... the game is just designed differently then what people are used to ... Example the green dragon fight Idris I think ... they use a wizard to kite the boss and EVERYONE including the tank handles adds ... the cleric builds as an OT/Healer ... look at some of the high end builds and the high end gear ... a lot has deflection on it ... they intended you to be mobile and the group to have to shift off of the main boss ... and as far as dps ... if you are aoeing and not crushing damage charts ... gotta come to some self realizations man ... up your game because clerics are beastly dps and amazing OT/Healers/Buff/Debuff depending on what specific role you are filling ... Epic dungeons require serious coordination and players

    I like this reply. Too bad that I probably might be one of those incompetent sorts for a while...
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    You are doing it wrong ... and your group is WAY WRONG ...
    Watch good end game groups ... 1 of every class ... the game is just designed differently then what people are used to ... Example the green dragon fight Idris I think ... they use a wizard to kite the boss and EVERYONE including the tank handles adds ... the cleric builds as an OT/Healer ... look at some of the high end builds and the high end gear ... a lot has deflection on it ... they intended you to be mobile and the group to have to shift off of the main boss ... and as far as dps ... if you are aoeing and not crushing damage charts ... gotta come to some self realizations man ... up your game because clerics are beastly dps and amazing OT/Healers/Buff/Debuff depending on what specific role you are filling ... Epic dungeons require serious coordination and players

    My tier 1 gear and some of my tier 2 gear has less defense and deflection than some Green 60 drops... I don't think we are intended to be off-tanks... our description is Leader / Controller so if anything we should be off-controllers and buffing, debuffing and healing as a primary... You could ague that face tanking and kiting entire packs of mobs around while your dps kill them counts as controlling I guess... in a warped and rather disappointing way.

    Most people playing D&D 4ED and people coming from MMO's will not expect the cleric to be off tanking or main tanking dungeons, I do not think this is the original intention or design for the devoted cleric.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mewbrey wrote: »
    My tier 1 gear and some of my tier 2 gear has less defense and deflection than some Green 60 drops... I don't think we are intended to be off-tanks... our description is Leader / Controller so if anything we should be off-controllers and buffing, debuffing and healing as a primary... You could ague that face tanking and kiting entire packs of mobs around while your dps kill them counts as controlling I guess... in a warped and rather disappointing way.

    Most people playing D&D 4ED and people coming from MMO's will not expect the cleric to be off tanking or main tanking dungeons, I do not think this is the original intention or design for the devoted cleric.

    Not necessarily OT at all times ... your group should be handling adds at ALL times ... that is a change from big guy tanks it all and healer hides in the back dps groups up ... trash that thought ... clerics/rogues/wizards need to be able to take a hit or two ... because of all the adds ... twitch.tv/piexoxo ... has progression 8300 dungeons ... watch the fights ... the cleric is buffing the area and healing but every time 92873492734 adds jump him he calls it and the whole team switches and clears the adds ... more mobile and more fun but their cleric needed to survive the opening wtf blast ... also with a proper tank you have a damage reduction circle to stay in for safety and ease of gathering most melee adds

    and if you are disappointed by a different school of thought on action adventure gameplay ... roll a different class ^_^
  • mewbreymewbrey Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 517 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    Not necessarily OT at all times ... your group should be handling adds at ALL times ... that is a change from big guy tanks it all and healer hides in the back dps groups up ... trash that thought ... clerics/rogues/wizards need to be able to take a hit or two ... because of all the adds ... twitch.tv/piexoxo ... has progression 8300 dungeons ... watch the fights ... the cleric is buffing the area and healing but every time 92873492734 adds jump him he calls it and the whole team switches and clears the adds ... more mobile and more fun but their cleric needed to survive the opening wtf blast ... also with a proper tank you have a damage reduction circle to stay in for safety and ease of gathering most melee adds

    and if you are disappointed by a different school of thought on action adventure gameplay ... roll a different class ^_^

    I run with a preset up group and we are on adds the vast majority of the time, in fact we even run with 2 GWF, 1 GF, 1 CW and myself as a DC... so our aoe damage is pretty effective at taking down the constant stream of adds attacking me... but it does not change the point that the vast majority of people will not have expected to roll a tank when picking the cleric, and you may as well be the tank right now only with -40% less self-healing and gear that does not facilitate your unannounced roll. Even with these set backs your still capable of tanking the dungeons sure... but is that good for a class that was not sold as a tank? I honestly don't think it is.
    ~*~ Foundry missions: Stronghold Branax : Goblin menace : Forwyn crypts ~*~
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It is really a shame that people think it is the devs fault that you have adds on you and that tanking or surviving is not what the class was sold as ... you aren't tanking .. you are surviving .. instead of have a shout taunt from the tank they made you move ZOMGGGGGGGG <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ... again watch the videos of the number one group in the world right now ... and the healer ... is NOT tanking ... at all ... he does have to take hits and move though ... different from other tunnel vision mmo's ... and ill rephrase my ending sentence from last time ... The game is free and in BETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ... if you think the class mechanics are finalized ... you are crazy ... it isn't done ... it isn't sold ... and they were balancing the threat as recently as 2 days ago ... they will continue to move towards a leader/controller that can heal as they have since BW1 ....
  • quickness87quickness87 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    caint, lol.

    Anyways, from many videos I saw and some actual high level end game cleric's perspective, they are actually doing pretty well. I guess it ultimately comes down to play style and how well your party can coordinate.
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    watch the videos of the number one group in the world right now ... and the healer ... is NOT tanking ... at all ...

    It would be helpful if you at least provided enough information that people could find this videos of the supposed number one group in the world. Although a link would be better.
  • zingarbagezingarbage Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    debuffer/buffer bro. Clerics do it extremely well. Sure it is thankless, but realize you are adding a good amount of damage to everyone else's attacks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It would be helpful if you at least provided enough information that people could find this videos of the supposed number one group in the world. Although a link would be better.


    provided in earlier post ... twitch.tv/piexoxo ... videos on the side ... they are in castle never currently ... they cleared most 8k dungeons yesterday
  • lothandriellothandriel Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You keep forgetting not everyone is an "elite" player glymm82. i get what you're saying tho but you have to admit this game makes it really hard on "healers" in general especially if everyone keeps runnning around the place.
    Most of us are using pugs to lvl and do dailies, and at 38 im still missing some gear cos everyone keeps NEEDING on everything that drops....
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    hmmmm I disagree with elite being a requirement ... I am NOT a solid gamer ... at all ... I am a good communicator though ... even if rude people hear me ... if they want to keep needing on loot I explain just kill all the adds this is a long fight and we win ... they usually understand kill adds get loot ... healers used to just be a 'HPS' check heals per second ... having an aoe heal that knocks everyone back heals gens ap and has a 9 second cooldown ... seems pretty broke ... and although frustrating when no one kills adds ... it is easy to explain to people that if they want more loot just keep on adds the whole fight ... seal healing buff/debuff with movement is actually pretty intense and allows for some awesome 'add mechanics' instead of boss mechanics later ... to give a skill check for my gaming ability I thought I was boss in League and I recently fell to bronze 4 on my main account ... so the idea I can make solid progression and laughing good times in chat/vent means there has to be more that people aren't seeing yet
  • saviorgunsaviorgun Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    shingyee wrote: »
    PWE User
    Join Date: Dec 2012






    As Best as I can tell cleric is prety much a broken class end game.

    1.We caint heal as good as heal pots or as fast.
    2. We caint tank as well.
    3. We caint dps as wel.
    4. We caint heal at all and not get aggro, I am not talking about Over healing and getting aggro.
    5. We caint choose in the middle of the massive who we are healing with all the movement that has to happen to avoid red circles.
    6. Groups complain because a lot of clerics are just standing their doing nothing trying not to get the 6-12 elits that spawned on us and die, and get locked out of the encounter lol.:mad:

    All of this was a joke right? The cleric my group uses destroys on heals. I have not used a heal pot in so long. Clear all the t1 epic dungeons easy. Pulling large groups.
    Rhek-60 GWF <Folklore>. "Rheking" damage meters since launch. Follow my streamwww.mmominds.com
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    saviorgun wrote: »
    All of this was a joke right? The cleric my group uses destroys on heals. I have not used a heal pot in so long. Clear all the t1 epic dungeons easy. Pulling large groups.

    <3

    /10Char
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    provided in earlier post ... twitch.tv/piexoxo ... videos on the side ... they are in castle never currently ... they cleared most 8k dungeons yesterday

    That cleric also spends 50% of his time doing nothing. He casts Astral Shield, Astral Seal, and Brand of the Sun then stands around doing nothing on trash pulls. I don't know his spec exactly but he has 2 encounters he doesn't seem to be using much, or at all.

    For bosses jump to 2:25:00 in this video http://www.twitch.tv/piexoxo/b/397490524 and watch health bars. The cleric is taking a serious beating and almost dies several times. He's taking more damage then everyone else. They eventually wipe actually but not before the rogue turns around and you can see the cleric having a mass of mobs on him.

    I'm really not sure that proves your point at all.

    It looks to me like exactly what I've experienced. Clerics get add aggro and have to off-tank, period.
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    That cleric also spends 50% of his time doing nothing. He casts Astral Shield, Astral Seal, and Brand of the Sun then stands around doing nothing on trash pulls. I don't know his spec exactly but he has 2 encounters he doesn't seem to be using much, or at all.

    For bosses jump to 2:25:00 in this video http://www.twitch.tv/piexoxo/b/397490524 and watch health bars. The cleric is taking a serious beating and almost dies several times. He's taking more damage then everyone else. They eventually wipe actually but not before the rogue turns around and you can see the cleric having a mass of mobs on him.

    I'm really not sure that proves your point at all.

    It looks to me like exactly what I've experienced. Clerics get add aggro and have to off-tank, period.

    So the cleric almost died a few times in an epic level 8k dungeon ... and one of the 2 wipes before making a progression kill the last 2 people alive had a cleric being massacred ... man I was wrong .. wait ...
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    that fight is also a 15 minute fight requiring active coordination and active peeling of adds ... the point is ... an organized group peeling adds and the cleric acting as a heal/buff/debuff ... Controller/Leader is exactly what they advertised the class as ... not as a stand still and hope they live ... also if you watch they all are using the healing stones which allows them to not rely on constant heals from the cleric ... at tier 1 people are posting EASY spam aoe heals with everyone peeling mob sets ... tier 2 evidently I mean I know it is crazy to think but ... people will have to get superior items and play like a boss ^_^ ... we were discussing the masses and I related a pro group to show that at lvl 36 ... it is EASY to save the cleric and play differently then all this whining about something in BETA that already has skill based answers to not tank ... and if you are tired of heal tanking ... roll a different game ... because every class is heal tanking
  • dixa1dixa1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    that fight is also a 15 minute fight requiring active coordination and active peeling of adds ... the point is ... an organized group peeling adds and the cleric acting as a heal/buff/debuff ... Controller/Leader is exactly what they advertised the class as ... not as a stand still and hope they live ... also if you watch they all are using the healing stones which allows them to not rely on constant heals from the cleric ... at tier 1 people are posting EASY spam aoe heals with everyone peeling mob sets ... tier 2 evidently I mean I know it is crazy to think but ... people will have to get superior items and play like a boss ^_^ ... we were discussing the masses and I related a pro group to show that at lvl 36 ... it is EASY to save the cleric and play differently then all this whining about something in BETA that already has skill based answers to not tank ... and if you are tired of heal tanking ... roll a different game ... because every class is heal tanking

    this is a f2p game. it's not supposed to cater to one percenters. more people will pug than run organized groups

    and unspecified is correct - unless the other 4 players are tanking the mobs, the cleric will be. the issue is not so much cleric threat as it is a total lack of on-demand aoe snap aggro for guardian fighters.


    and stop calling it a beta. there will never be an official release. this is as much of a 'beta' as path of exile currently is. they are calling it a beta to mask the unfinished aspects of the game while opening up the cash shop to start raking in your money. it's NOT a beta.
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    So the cleric almost died a few times in an epic level 8k dungeon ... and one of the 2 wipes before making a progression kill the last 2 people alive had a cleric being massacred ... man I was wrong .. wait ...

    Perhaps later they made a kill but at 2:32:00 they give up. They do not make a kill. They were talking about how nice it would be to knock adds off the edge but the cleric didn't pull out Sun Burst and just throw things over. None of that is really relevant though.

    The point is that saying the cleric just has to kite around a bit (kiting is often the worst solution) and add aggro isn't a problem, or that clerics aren't off-tanks is incorrect.

    Personally I have no issue with the way things are. If you go to my videos and read that thread I took the approach of accepting I need to be built to tank. The group I run with doesn't have a GF currently because Astral Shield basically makes everyone a tank. I have no issues healing or staying alive most of the time.

    Maybe you are actually a founder but since you have no forum title I'm assuming not. Which means you are presenting arguments based entirely on watching other people play.

    I only care about this because it seems like you are spreading misinformation based on no experience. That doesn't help anybody.
  • trixiefantrixiefan Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Can't be arsed watching a twitch stream but if it takes "best players in game" to make the cleric work "adequately" then it is broken, or maybe it's like that so normal gamers are forced to use the zen store.
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I am a founder and can add the title ... and it is based on experience ... and if you have no GF you will learn soon that having a bubble for 50% damage reduction is almost 100% necessary ... I am on dragon ... Name is Glymm Frost ^_^ feel free to check the founder and the experience :)
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    trixiefan wrote: »
    Can't be arsed watching a twitch stream but if it takes "best players in game" to make the cleric work "adequately" then it is broken, or maybe it's like that so normal gamers are forced to use the zen store.

    If there is something in the zen store other then healing stones that makes this game easy please tell me so I can buy it
  • unspecifiederrorunspecifiederror Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 315 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    I am a founder and can add the title ... and it is based on experience ... and if you have no GF you will learn soon that having a bubble for 50% damage reduction is almost 100% necessary ... I am on dragon ... Name is Glymm Frost ^_^ feel free to check the founder and the experience :)

    I would love to have GF around, just haven't found one to run with yet. Sounds like we're at the same progression point though I haven't tried Mad Dragon yet but have cleared Idriss a few times... stupid purple orbs remove Astral Shield from the ground, makes that fight interesting without a GF.

    I really think the best way to do end-game stuff is Cleric tanks adds near the and GF tanks the boss. With the combined damage reduction both can put out and cleric healing they should both be fine. Then have the CW and GWF nuke the adds around the cleric with AoE while the rogue works on the boss. Possibly have the GWF tank some adds as well.

    I just don't believe for a second the "stand in the back and never get touched healer" some people seem to want will ever be a viable option. Instead it's "Stand in the circle and get tickled while you cast healers" that will work out well.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    I stopped reading at "we can't heal as good as pots."

    I'm sorry, but I've been running epic dungeons for days now, and I absolutely dominate on healing. I'm specced for all crit and healing, and divine power gain. I've been thinking about making a thread about my build, maybe I should.
  • saviorgunsaviorgun Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    I stopped reading at "we can't heal as good as pots."

    I'm sorry, but I've been running epic dungeons for days now, and I absolutely dominate on healing. I'm specced for all crit and healing, and divine power gain. I've been thinking about making a thread about my build, maybe I should.

    This would be the Cleric I referenced earlier in my post.
    Rhek-60 GWF <Folklore>. "Rheking" damage meters since launch. Follow my streamwww.mmominds.com
  • glymm82glymm82 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?157881-Here-We-Go-Again-Cleric-Tanks&p=2317331&posted=1#post2317331

    better conversation by more informed people ^_^ same subject ... and trust me ... it is just your perception about having to build to tank ... it is ok though you can stay a baddie with me ... I am not a good gamer either
  • joeldgnjoeldgn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 76
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    You are doing it wrong ... and your group is WAY WRONG ...
    Watch good end game groups ... 1 of every class ... the game is just designed differently then what people are used to ... Example the green dragon fight Idris I think ... they use a wizard to kite the boss and EVERYONE including the tank handles adds ... the cleric builds as an OT/Healer ... look at some of the high end builds and the high end gear ... a lot has deflection on it ... they intended you to be mobile and the group to have to shift off of the main boss ... and as far as dps ... if you are aoeing and not crushing damage charts ... gotta come to some self realizations man ... up your game because clerics are beastly dps and amazing OT/Healers/Buff/Debuff depending on what specific role you are filling ... Epic dungeons require serious coordination and players

    OMG YES, I love this reply.
  • carrotpakcarrotpak Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    glymm82 wrote: »
    It is really a shame that people think it is the devs fault that you have adds on you and that tanking or surviving is not what the class was sold as ... you aren't tanking .. you are surviving .. instead of have a shout taunt from the tank they made you move ZOMGGGGGGGG <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ... again watch the videos of the number one group in the world right now ... and the healer ... is NOT tanking ... at all ... he does have to take hits and move though ... different from other tunnel vision mmo's ... and ill rephrase my ending sentence from last time ... The game is free and in BETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ... if you think the class mechanics are finalized ... you are crazy ... it isn't done ... it isn't sold ... and they were balancing the threat as recently as 2 days ago ... they will continue to move towards a leader/controller that can heal as they have since BW1 ....

    stop typing like that! what's with the 1000+ "..."? For god's sake you are 30 already, type like an adult
  • bejita231bejita231 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I was telling cryptic how broken cleric was, their healing isent enough to save anyone in epic dungeons, they dont have damage comparable to all the other classes, and their piddly utility doesnt win fights at endgame, looks like endgame guilds are opting for 2 CW's and just benching the cleric, and who blames them? CW is superior in damage and brings REAL "utility" in the form of game changing CC

    Clerics need their healing given back to them, they need to become relevant or they will not be taken to serious dungeon groups, all the non clerics or level 20 clerics hear spouting nonsense will not be happy at endgame when their class is irrelevant
  • gnostergnoster Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    shingyee wrote: »
    As Best as I can tell cleric is prety much a broken class end game.

    Try to look at this post: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?157861-Videos-Cleric-Epic-Dungeon-Runs-and-Build.

    Really impressive DC play and some well thought out propositions for feats and skills. Yes, it doesn't show a "standard" MMO healer, but I doubt that was intended from Cryptics side anyway, just like CW and GWF aren't meant are pure damage dealers.
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