while the tank spams their enforced threat skill and cleaving all of the mobs to try to get them off of me. Nothing seems to work.
I use my astral seal on the boss and some ads to get the passive healing rolling for everyone damaging the enemies, and boom, instant aggro, everything runs to me, even after the tank uses the enforced threat ability, their tab ability which marks and is supposed to build threat, and damaging most of them with cleave/other aoe's.
Same issue here, but from my opinion it's not necessarily a cleric issue, the tank and DPS should generate more threat and not the cleric lesser, to be honest, if I were a boss, my first target would be to eliminate the one who are able to keep the opponent party alive. So from my point of view the threat generated by cleric it’s O.K, but the other guys in the party should be able to get the agro back and ensure that the cleric survive the encounter.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited April 2013
I think a large part of our agro issues is due to companions, when we are AOE healing we have a chance of healing 10 targets... When we healing companions it should not cause threat in all honesty, I would imagine that would go along way to helping the issues!
judgebankslolMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited April 2013
So from what I gather, soothe is still a worthless passive to pick up? Oh well, can't wait to play the meta 2C/2W/1R.
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blodmannMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited April 2013
I'm not overly familiar with the actual under the hood mechanics of this game, but from what I have seen in game and read here, it seems you are getting pull agro from adds. Whoever gets the agro first will have more than 100% agro to make it harder to pull agro from the tank when played correctly. In WoW you had to stop healing when new adds spawned, to let the tank get pull agro on them. Right now at least groups seem to be treating the boss encounters like a good old dps race, slamming the aoe the minute adds show up. And at lower levels you can get away with it, but I guess at some point groups will be forced to pay closer attention to add agro in general.
I'm not overly familiar with the actual under the hood mechanics of this game, but from what I have seen in game and read here, it seems you are getting pull agro from adds. Whoever gets the agro first will have more than 100% agro to make it harder to pull agro from the tank when played correctly. In WoW you had to stop healing when new adds spawned, to let the tank get pull agro on them. Right now at least groups seem to be treating the boss encounters like a good old dps race, slamming the aoe the minute adds show up. And at lower levels you can get away with it, but I guess at some point groups will be forced to pay closer attention to add agro in general.
Way to compare the game to WoW. Thumbs down to you. If you would read the entirety of the thread first, you would have realized that we already went over this. We do stop healing when adds spawn, the tank and DPS'ers will kill the ads attacking the cleric and they will never peel off the cleric until dead. Any minor heal, no matter how small, will put full threat on the cleric from ads, even with DPS'ers CC'ing and killing them, they never leave off the cleric.
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blodmannMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Way to compare the game to WoW. Thumbs down to you. If you would read the entirety of the thread first, you would have realized that we already went over this. We do stop healing when adds spawn, the tank and DPS'ers will kill the ads attacking the cleric and they will never peel off the cleric until dead. Any minor heal, no matter how small, will put full threat on the cleric from ads, even with DPS'ers CC'ing and killing them, they never leave off the cleric.
I did read the whole thread and I did see that you pull threat from even the slightest heal. And if the dps can't pull them off you with cc and dps, this is a further indication that the game does have pull agro at more than 100% threat generated. I didn't know people would get offended by comparing mechanics that are obviously similar to other games, in an effort to understand how this game works. The adds seem to come when the boss it at certain percentages of health, and if you really wanted to, I'm sure it would be possible to not even let "the slightest heal" go of when they spawn. Maybe even try positioning the boss so that the adds have to come running through the tank (not my experience so far). Buuut, the game is young and tactics are still developing.
There really isn't an easy way to put this if you haven't played a Cleric and healed a level 30+ instance.
Add avoidance is impossible. They will come for you.
I can stand there, not heal and they head right for me. They also don't spawn on just one side of the boss they spawn all around the room, so they still travel right to you.
If you die and resurrect.
You don't even have to toss out a heal. They just come for you again.
You wind up making good use of the store on res scrolls and you chug pots like there is no tomorrow.
There is no mechanic that is sane that says if you die, you should be targeted immediately again after a res. Res should be a clean slate. Add control is definitely important but it won't save you every time as a cleric simply because of the number of adds. Your dps team will bring them down eventually while you kite them around as best you can. Dying, ressing and resuming the kiting.
Once people understand that the cleric grabs add aggro, and that the tank just isn't designed for that, Damage classes will make adds the priority and it will be a non-issue. If this continues to be a problem for you then just run with a damage dealing friend or two.
100% this. Tank cannot pull ads, they go to a cleric by default and in every game I know... if you pulled aggro FIRST, it's a lot harder to pull it OFF of you. Also in other games you can stop casting stuff to remove yourself from aggro list but you have Astral Seal and other things ticking off healing on everyone at all times so you are never off of the aggro list.
But DPS simply have to get used to thinning the ads and not just ignoring them. GWF and CW are better at this than rogues, but rogues can kill those elite bosses fast (however their high target dps makes them a better choice to stay with tank on boss unless you have no GWF or CW).
I had to load DPS AOE skills because there's just no bloody way to survive otherwise. I depend on my astral seals and crits to get some healing going on people cause there's never time or enough divine power to spam Forge.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
edited April 2013
Just been running epic-dungeons at 60... and every dungeon boss from start to finish I had to tank and the vast majority of the adds too... it's fairly frustrating having to be the groups tank as a cleric I did not sign up to be a tank! xD
Feel so sorry for the guardian fighter in the group who said that he feels useless.
xcluzivMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
The cleric has lots of agro making the game really action packed. I like the system they put into place for the cleric it makes you not to stand around the whole game. It forces you to run around which is really fun for me. Level 40Cleric. All the cleric needs is the at will powers to be changed to some aoe heal spells or a spell u can cast and run around with (not forcing you to stand still) and the game is set for me.
I like having aggro on my cleric also, makes for exciting game play.
Does seem to interfere with the tank type classes game dynamic, but that's fine. It's a new game, so I expect some twists from it.
Fine and dandy to have different game style than older games requiring more action...but the guardian fighter needs a niche. Right now, it seems they have nothing.
While some clerics may be happy with this... threat is still a legitimate issue for GWF and GF (to a much lesser extent). The GWF Sentinel spec has to sacrifice damage output for greater survival and threat generation boosts via feats, all of which are currently lackluster and random in their effectiveness at best.
I've been saying it for a while, but every GWF out there is attempting to be some kind of uber DPS so they could care less. I don't see the issue being resolved any time soon, as the devs will likely just sweep it under the rug until more people put value into proper off-tanking. Maybe if we had more challenging encounters or longer cooldowns on pots, this would matter more.
The specifics on the GWF threat based feats can be found in my older thread: here
I'm sure Cryptic has more urgent bugs to address at this time, but I hope they at least realize this is an issue. I feel that they should eventually improve threat mechanics and increase encounter difficulty in 60 epics, otherwise everyone will be geared and bored in no time. That doesn't sound like good design to me...
It's still early open beta, so I have some faith that this may get another look.
| Banners of the Light | Recruitment is open | End Game PvE and PvP |
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
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spiwituzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
I really feel like most of the people here that want this to stay are people not playing cleric. If this is how the aggro management is going to be then they might as well just rename the class devoted kiter. All you do as cleric atm is run in circles trying to survive, you do not get to heal or do damage. The only abilities i get to use on a boss fight is sunburst and astral seal, I can never stop to do some healing, at least not without some awesome dps who actually kills the adds. If this is the way clerics will play out then I will reroll or stop playing the game, I did not roll cleric so I could run marathons every **** boss fight. Ofc some people may like how it is now, but I'm pretty sure that most clerics want to be able to do something else than just run.
When you get Astral Shield, getting swarmed by mobs won't seem like a big deal anymore.
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cablepunkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited April 2013
Chiming in as a level 31 Guardian Fighter. Was fighting a Shocktroop Warlord for practice. Had my mark up, got hit by fire -- character animation was literally on fire -- and did not lose my mark. A few seconds later, blocked and lost my mark.
So, on account of lag I presume, I can't tank in this game. Well at least not on a guardian fighter. Tanking on a cleric looks to be viable.
Additionally, I've heard dungeon runs with GWFs go a lot better. Guardian Fighter stays on boss, GWF deals with adds. This game has a tank problem and a healer problem, but it also has a dps problem in the sense that dps needs to stop whining, get off the boss, use some potions, and take care of the adds. If there is no GWF, the cleric is going to have to tank the adds. But I wonder how much of this is l2p and how much of this is Cryptic's broken system?
I like a new game, and it's refreshing to learn how to play something new, but that's if the system works. The system doesn't work if a tank can't hold aggro for any reasonable amount of time.
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judgebankslolMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
100% this. Tank cannot pull ads, they go to a cleric by default and in every game I know... if you pulled aggro FIRST, it's a lot harder to pull it OFF of you. Also in other games you can stop casting stuff to remove yourself from aggro list but you have Astral Seal and other things ticking off healing on everyone at all times so you are never off of the aggro list.
But DPS simply have to get used to thinning the ads and not just ignoring them. GWF and CW are better at this than rogues, but rogues can kill those elite bosses fast (however their high target dps makes them a better choice to stay with tank on boss unless you have no GWF or CW).
I had to load DPS AOE skills because there's just no bloody way to survive otherwise. I depend on my astral seals and crits to get some healing going on people cause there's never time or enough divine power to spam Forge.
Sounds like PEBKAC. We've already seen clerics tanking epics just fine.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
When you get Astral Shield, getting swarmed by mobs won't seem like a big deal anymore.
sure feels like an issue when I'm tanking level 60 epic bosses and 4 elite adds because I cast a few heals... didn't know I'd rolled a defender class I'm sure I picked leader!
So I've seen some improvements to the whole issue of clerics having wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too much aggro in group content, and the sooth can now go up to 40% less threat, but it still seems very out of tune.
I'm only at level 40 currently, but I've done every single skirmish and dungeon up to this point. Each dungeon and skirmish, I'm always the one with the highest threat, all of the aggro, trying my best to spam my potions and kite 5-10+ elite mobs, while the tank spams their enforced threat skill and cleaving all of the mobs to try to get them off of me. Nothing seems to work.
I use my astral seal on the boss and some ads to get the passive healing rolling for everyone damaging the enemies, and boom, instant aggro, everything runs to me, even after the tank uses the enforced threat ability, their tab ability which marks and is supposed to build threat, and damaging most of them with cleave/other aoe's.
What I'm having to do now is just take full damaging skills, no healing at all just so that I can live and not have to buy 50+ injury kits to heal all my injuries. It isn't fun waiting 4 minutes at a campfire to remove injuries while your group waits for you, because they aren't the ones dying, us clerics are. And having to spend 10 silver to cure 1 wound, which isn't much, but nonetheless, it adds up at the lower levels.
What I also don't understand, are the rogues or wizards who are doing major damage to the mobs, 1k hits and constant damage even from their at-wills and encounters, aren't ever getting aggro over a flimsy healer who heals for like 100hp with sun burst. You mean to tell me that my 100hp heal generates more threat than a 3,000 damage crit or damage from the dps'ers? Something just isn't right.
Please take a look into this issue, as of right now I'm totally demoralized because I want to heal without being punished so heavily. I'm forced to basically play full DPS cleric so I don't die 10 times per dungeon. If I wanted to tank, I'd play a Guardian, not my cleric.
Can anyone else relate? Anyone level 60 doing the higher dungeons having the same issue or is it completely different? Like I said, I noticed some small difference in aggro from the beta weekends, but it is still out of whack.
TL;DR Cleric aggro 2 high with healing, anyone else having similar problems? Can any level 60 clerics comment please about their experiences with the level 60+ dungeons?
I can't relate because when i spec for healing I actually put points in threat reduction abilities which adds up (at level 26) to just about 80% last I checked so I'm not really seeing this at all. Even when I'm not doing that I added a few threat reductions to the feats just for good measure and since I have (i think it was 3 points or something insig like that) even my pocket tank pet can hold aggro off me now. I'm not level 60 tho but I gotta say that there maybe someone missing some traits/feats there causing the problem. Aggro isn't like it was in BWE4 anymore.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
I can't relate because when i spec for healing I actually put points in threat reduction abilities which adds up (at level 26) to just about 80% last I checked so I'm not really seeing this at all. Even when I'm not doing that I added a few threat reductions to the feats just for good measure and since I have (i think it was 3 points or something insig like that) even my pocket tank pet can hold aggro off me now. I'm not level 60 tho but I gotta say that there maybe someone missing some traits/feats there causing the problem. Aggro isn't like it was in BWE4 anymore.
where are you getting 80%, I get 40% from my passive with 3 points, and then 6% from my talents at 3/3 that is 46% yet I am still tanking both the epic 60 dungeon bosses in both tier 1 and 2 along with all their adds that get summoned, I am even using our ONLY skill that reduces our threat one target.
In all honesty I kind of begrudge having to use 1/2 of my passive slots and 3 of my feat points to attempt to be allowed to do my roll. Do DPS have to use 1/2 passives and 3 feats to not pull threat? of course not they can spend all their points on doing their roll, but I guess that is a different story all together.
As Best as I can tell cleric is prety much a broken class.
1.We caint heal as good as heal pots or as fast.
2. We caint tank as well.
3. We caint dps as wel.
4. We caint heal at all and not get aggro, I am not talking about Over healing and getting aggro.
5. We caint choose in the middle of the massive who we are healing with all the movement that has to happen to avoid red circles.
6. Grougs complain because a lot of clerics are just standing their doing nothing trying not to get the 6-12 elits that spawned on us and die, get locked out of the encounter lol.
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bladetwistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited April 2013
I understand why healers get aggro on an MMO, but sometimes the aggro formula is kind of umbalanced. Haven't seen any MMO lately that after a couple of heals everyone start targeting the healer.
But healers acting as tank.... My healer Ops in TOR do that a lot in heroic quests, lol
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glymm82Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited April 2013
the game is in ... BETA!.... and if your group knows what they are doing ... and you trash the school of thought that all mmo gameplay has a healer hiding with dps grouped by the tank holding all the mobs ... neverwinter active gameplay is actually pretty cool ... the mid game dungeons through epic require your group to coordinate how to handle adds more so then the boss ... its a different style of game play and clerics need to teach their teams of previous mmo style gameplay that this one works different .. the green dragon uses a wizard to kite/dps while the other 4 people work on adds ... that idea alone CRUSHES low level groups doing that dungeon ...
if you are tanking/ot then it is being done wrong ....
twitch.tv/piexoxo to see 8k dungeons done where the cleric in a good group doesn't tank
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
the game is in ... BETA!.... and if your group knows what they are doing ... and you trash the school of thought that all mmo gameplay has a healer hiding with dps grouped by the tank holding all the mobs ... neverwinter active gameplay is actually pretty cool ... the mid game dungeons through epic require your group to coordinate how to handle adds more so then the boss ... its a different style of game play and clerics need to teach their teams of previous mmo style gameplay that this one works different .. the green dragon uses a wizard to kite/dps while the other 4 people work on adds ... that idea alone CRUSHES low level groups doing that dungeon ...
if you are tanking/ot then it is being done wrong ....
twitch.tv/piexoxo to see 8k dungeons done where the cleric in a good group doesn't tank
watched. the cleric does take threat from adds as they spawn until the gwf, cw, tr or gf get on them.
you also don't get the full picture of what threat that clreic is pulling or the damage he's taking in becau the video is not from his point of view, and everyone else has cleric companions out.
I rolled a guardian fighter and have all my taunt abilities at max at lv 30. Everytime the cleric does one heal or a seal on mobs they break away and attack. I'm useing my taunts at the right moments and I still cant keep mobs off the cleric.
watched. the cleric does take threat from adds as they spawn until the gwf, cw, tr or gf get on them.
you also don't get the full picture of what threat that clreic is pulling or the damage he's taking in becau the video is not from his point of view, and everyone else has cleric companions out.
Yes takes initial damage as it is an action oriented game ... but like you said ... the group immediately pulls them all as this game is more about add management then it is about boss mechanic management .... just a different school of thought and one that doesn't let baddies tunnel vision game through progression
Wonder if Cryptic will ever respond to this thread.
The threat mechanism sucks.
Why is it that the companion can tank better than an actual player pushing buttons?
They did after BW4 ... I am sure if they feel it is still out of balance they will adjust again. They have been quick to make adjustments per beta weekend. I imagine now in open beta it will be even faster. Remember they are trying to fix current issues while getting content people are screaming for as well. Can't believe the level of complaints for something in beta ...
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autopopsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited April 2013
this is not world of warcraft.
threat mechanics are based on keeping agro of key potential team threats
Adds should be nuked
all the red **** on the floor is not to be stood in
control wizards should help the team to isolate and nuke the adds
clerics should heal their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off and deal with adds where possible
the game is based on active combat and is pretty realistic in that respect
in summary;
YOU ARE NOT LOCKED INTO ONE ROLE, YOU NEED TO SUPPORT THE TEAM IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE
YOU NEED TO USE YOUR BRAIN
MECHANICS ARE NOT BROKEN THEY ARE A NEW TAKE
THIS IS NOT WORLD OF WARCRAFT CURRENT META
As Best as I can tell cleric is prety much a broken class.
1.We caint heal as good as heal pots or as fast.
2. We caint tank as well.
3. We caint dps as wel.
4. We caint heal at all and not get aggro, I am not talking about Over healing and getting aggro.
5. We caint choose in the middle of the massive who we are healing with all the movement that has to happen to avoid red circles.
6. Grougs complain because a lot of clerics are just standing their doing nothing trying not to get the 6-12 elits that spawned on us and die, get locked out of the encounter lol.
60 CLeric - Dragon shard.
1. 1.7 Million healing at the end of a dungeon, I beg to Differ
2. Um, healer? theres a tank class for a reason (Also rolling a tank 32 as of right this, no issues with threat)
3. 2nd or 3rd is DPS while healing! we have really good dps if you know how to use it.
4. Oh nooos, you healed something and other mobs came to kill you. I see this as a good mechanice. just standing and healing is boring, healing on the run takes skill.
5. We have AOE heals for a reason, only single target heals we have is the divine channel and the HOT, both of which are lackluster compared to our AOE's.
6. Never had anyone complain about my healing or DPS, and I do both at the same time. Yes I use pots all classes do, I see healers in this as more support/buffs/dps than sitting there watching little green bars all day.
Comments
Same issue here, but from my opinion it's not necessarily a cleric issue, the tank and DPS should generate more threat and not the cleric lesser, to be honest, if I were a boss, my first target would be to eliminate the one who are able to keep the opponent party alive. So from my point of view the threat generated by cleric it’s O.K, but the other guys in the party should be able to get the agro back and ensure that the cleric survive the encounter.
Way to compare the game to WoW. Thumbs down to you. If you would read the entirety of the thread first, you would have realized that we already went over this. We do stop healing when adds spawn, the tank and DPS'ers will kill the ads attacking the cleric and they will never peel off the cleric until dead. Any minor heal, no matter how small, will put full threat on the cleric from ads, even with DPS'ers CC'ing and killing them, they never leave off the cleric.
I did read the whole thread and I did see that you pull threat from even the slightest heal. And if the dps can't pull them off you with cc and dps, this is a further indication that the game does have pull agro at more than 100% threat generated. I didn't know people would get offended by comparing mechanics that are obviously similar to other games, in an effort to understand how this game works. The adds seem to come when the boss it at certain percentages of health, and if you really wanted to, I'm sure it would be possible to not even let "the slightest heal" go of when they spawn. Maybe even try positioning the boss so that the adds have to come running through the tank (not my experience so far). Buuut, the game is young and tactics are still developing.
Add avoidance is impossible. They will come for you.
I can stand there, not heal and they head right for me. They also don't spawn on just one side of the boss they spawn all around the room, so they still travel right to you.
If you die and resurrect.
You don't even have to toss out a heal. They just come for you again.
You wind up making good use of the store on res scrolls and you chug pots like there is no tomorrow.
There is no mechanic that is sane that says if you die, you should be targeted immediately again after a res. Res should be a clean slate. Add control is definitely important but it won't save you every time as a cleric simply because of the number of adds. Your dps team will bring them down eventually while you kite them around as best you can. Dying, ressing and resuming the kiting.
100% this. Tank cannot pull ads, they go to a cleric by default and in every game I know... if you pulled aggro FIRST, it's a lot harder to pull it OFF of you. Also in other games you can stop casting stuff to remove yourself from aggro list but you have Astral Seal and other things ticking off healing on everyone at all times so you are never off of the aggro list.
But DPS simply have to get used to thinning the ads and not just ignoring them. GWF and CW are better at this than rogues, but rogues can kill those elite bosses fast (however their high target dps makes them a better choice to stay with tank on boss unless you have no GWF or CW).
I had to load DPS AOE skills because there's just no bloody way to survive otherwise. I depend on my astral seals and crits to get some healing going on people cause there's never time or enough divine power to spam Forge.
Feel so sorry for the guardian fighter in the group who said that he feels useless.
Does seem to interfere with the tank type classes game dynamic, but that's fine. It's a new game, so I expect some twists from it.
I've been saying it for a while, but every GWF out there is attempting to be some kind of uber DPS so they could care less. I don't see the issue being resolved any time soon, as the devs will likely just sweep it under the rug until more people put value into proper off-tanking. Maybe if we had more challenging encounters or longer cooldowns on pots, this would matter more.
The specifics on the GWF threat based feats can be found in my older thread: here
I'm sure Cryptic has more urgent bugs to address at this time, but I hope they at least realize this is an issue. I feel that they should eventually improve threat mechanics and increase encounter difficulty in 60 epics, otherwise everyone will be geared and bored in no time. That doesn't sound like good design to me...
It's still early open beta, so I have some faith that this may get another look.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
So, on account of lag I presume, I can't tank in this game. Well at least not on a guardian fighter. Tanking on a cleric looks to be viable.
Additionally, I've heard dungeon runs with GWFs go a lot better. Guardian Fighter stays on boss, GWF deals with adds. This game has a tank problem and a healer problem, but it also has a dps problem in the sense that dps needs to stop whining, get off the boss, use some potions, and take care of the adds. If there is no GWF, the cleric is going to have to tank the adds. But I wonder how much of this is l2p and how much of this is Cryptic's broken system?
I like a new game, and it's refreshing to learn how to play something new, but that's if the system works. The system doesn't work if a tank can't hold aggro for any reasonable amount of time.
Sounds like PEBKAC. We've already seen clerics tanking epics just fine.
sure feels like an issue when I'm tanking level 60 epic bosses and 4 elite adds because I cast a few heals... didn't know I'd rolled a defender class I'm sure I picked leader!
I can't relate because when i spec for healing I actually put points in threat reduction abilities which adds up (at level 26) to just about 80% last I checked so I'm not really seeing this at all. Even when I'm not doing that I added a few threat reductions to the feats just for good measure and since I have (i think it was 3 points or something insig like that) even my pocket tank pet can hold aggro off me now. I'm not level 60 tho but I gotta say that there maybe someone missing some traits/feats there causing the problem. Aggro isn't like it was in BWE4 anymore.
where are you getting 80%, I get 40% from my passive with 3 points, and then 6% from my talents at 3/3 that is 46% yet I am still tanking both the epic 60 dungeon bosses in both tier 1 and 2 along with all their adds that get summoned, I am even using our ONLY skill that reduces our threat one target.
In all honesty I kind of begrudge having to use 1/2 of my passive slots and 3 of my feat points to attempt to be allowed to do my roll. Do DPS have to use 1/2 passives and 3 feats to not pull threat? of course not they can spend all their points on doing their roll, but I guess that is a different story all together.
1.We caint heal as good as heal pots or as fast.
2. We caint tank as well.
3. We caint dps as wel.
4. We caint heal at all and not get aggro, I am not talking about Over healing and getting aggro.
5. We caint choose in the middle of the massive who we are healing with all the movement that has to happen to avoid red circles.
6. Grougs complain because a lot of clerics are just standing their doing nothing trying not to get the 6-12 elits that spawned on us and die, get locked out of the encounter lol.
But healers acting as tank.... My healer Ops in TOR do that a lot in heroic quests, lol
if you are tanking/ot then it is being done wrong ....
twitch.tv/piexoxo to see 8k dungeons done where the cleric in a good group doesn't tank
watched. the cleric does take threat from adds as they spawn until the gwf, cw, tr or gf get on them.
you also don't get the full picture of what threat that clreic is pulling or the damage he's taking in becau the video is not from his point of view, and everyone else has cleric companions out.
Yes takes initial damage as it is an action oriented game ... but like you said ... the group immediately pulls them all as this game is more about add management then it is about boss mechanic management .... just a different school of thought and one that doesn't let baddies tunnel vision game through progression
The threat mechanism sucks.
Why is it that the companion can tank better than an actual player pushing buttons?
They did after BW4 ... I am sure if they feel it is still out of balance they will adjust again. They have been quick to make adjustments per beta weekend. I imagine now in open beta it will be even faster. Remember they are trying to fix current issues while getting content people are screaming for as well. Can't believe the level of complaints for something in beta ...
threat mechanics are based on keeping agro of key potential team threats
Adds should be nuked
all the red **** on the floor is not to be stood in
control wizards should help the team to isolate and nuke the adds
clerics should heal their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off and deal with adds where possible
the game is based on active combat and is pretty realistic in that respect
in summary;
YOU ARE NOT LOCKED INTO ONE ROLE, YOU NEED TO SUPPORT THE TEAM IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE
YOU NEED TO USE YOUR BRAIN
MECHANICS ARE NOT BROKEN THEY ARE A NEW TAKE
THIS IS NOT WORLD OF WARCRAFT CURRENT META
60 CLeric - Dragon shard.
1. 1.7 Million healing at the end of a dungeon, I beg to Differ
2. Um, healer? theres a tank class for a reason (Also rolling a tank 32 as of right this, no issues with threat)
3. 2nd or 3rd is DPS while healing! we have really good dps if you know how to use it.
4. Oh nooos, you healed something and other mobs came to kill you. I see this as a good mechanice. just standing and healing is boring, healing on the run takes skill.
5. We have AOE heals for a reason, only single target heals we have is the divine channel and the HOT, both of which are lackluster compared to our AOE's.
6. Never had anyone complain about my healing or DPS, and I do both at the same time. Yes I use pots all classes do, I see healers in this as more support/buffs/dps than sitting there watching little green bars all day.