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New players will not stay if they play with GWF.
mconosrep
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
This isn't (quite) a QQ thread but more to emphasis something which I think is going to be highly relevant as of the 30th. Namely that at low levels the GWF will be quite painful to level for new players, many of whom will gravitate towards the guy wielding a massive 2-handed weapon, and they will most likely end up being very disappointed. And when newer players first experience of a F2P game is negative, the aren't likely to bother sticking around. Which is a shame as i really like this game and thnk it has great potential.
Thanks to being a founder, and so getting a companion and a starting weapon that was pretty good until around level 20, my experience of GWF was underwhelming (pot addiction here I come) until I was able to save up enough to get the cleric hireling, but not so bad that it totally put me off. After getting the Cleric companion things were actually okay, and although the DPS never felt great, not having to be paranoid about taking damage (and constantly having to drink pots) made things more fun.
However without a (self-healing) companion to take some aggro from the start AND a great starting weapon, new players are going to have an extremely rough time and have to spend a fortune on pots which will delay the time when they can get a healer companion. Also having to work like hell just to avoid begin last placed in DPS is just dispiriting. Frankly I think a lot of them will go sod this and just move onto another game, which can hardly be in anyone's interests.
I know that none of the points here are new, but I haven't seen a post in the forum that has made this argument in quite this fashion. I hope PW will take a good look at how hard it will be for new (non-founder) GWF players without a freebie companion and a great starting weapon, and consider appropriate (low level) changes.
Thanks to being a founder, and so getting a companion and a starting weapon that was pretty good until around level 20, my experience of GWF was underwhelming (pot addiction here I come) until I was able to save up enough to get the cleric hireling, but not so bad that it totally put me off. After getting the Cleric companion things were actually okay, and although the DPS never felt great, not having to be paranoid about taking damage (and constantly having to drink pots) made things more fun.
However without a (self-healing) companion to take some aggro from the start AND a great starting weapon, new players are going to have an extremely rough time and have to spend a fortune on pots which will delay the time when they can get a healer companion. Also having to work like hell just to avoid begin last placed in DPS is just dispiriting. Frankly I think a lot of them will go sod this and just move onto another game, which can hardly be in anyone's interests.
I know that none of the points here are new, but I haven't seen a post in the forum that has made this argument in quite this fashion. I hope PW will take a good look at how hard it will be for new (non-founder) GWF players without a freebie companion and a great starting weapon, and consider appropriate (low level) changes.
Post edited by mconosrep on
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Incidentally I did almost drop NWO last night at the height of my anger after busting my @SS to avoid last place in a dungeon. Again. When I saw that even the healer beat me in the damage chart I logged out and played Age of Wushu for 4 hours and actually had funs. Now that I am cooled off, I genuinely hope the situation improves. I want to play the game, but when you experience the kind of suckage a GWF does in PVP and PVE, it is hard to stay happy. I had hoped it changes at level 60, but I see many posts to the contrary so I am discouraged.
Seasoned MMO players will understand this. I've tried so many different MMOs, but I usually have the patience/curiosity to try multiple classes that first day or two. I can't say how many times my opinion of an MMO drastically changed (for the better) AFTER I switched to a class that was so much more fun to play.
But I doubt many people out there are going to have that attitude. As the OP stated, they're going to gravitate towards the GWF, try it, and QQ/uninstall and never look back.
PWE/Cryptic needs to fix this.
I did notice that my killing speed slowed just before 20 but that's probably a combination of me picking up the healing companion and my greycloak weapons leveling out. With the cleric slave I can pretty much face tank most encounters but I might go back to the wolf to speed up the killing. I know Rogues kill faster but they should, that's how they made them. I'm going to make a CW to compare them to the GWF as I feel they should have similar damage but as it is now I'd still level up the GWF it hasn't been a total turn off as some make it seem. I'm starting to wonder what they expected of the class or maybe I'm just use to playing gimped classed in MMOs (I have the worst luck picking classes sometimes).
one: they get up in levels, lets say 20s then they group up and do a dungeon. During that dungeon they will feel like they are doing really good but notice during boss fights they cant hold agro off the healer not even for a minute. Then at the end of the fighting for the last boss they notice the healer out damage them in the whole dungeon.
two: they realize they are having to take like 30+ pots per major solo encounter and might die often.
after that they will want to reroll something else. The class plays very fun but it is not effective at all for anyone.
I have as of last night hit 43 and I have to say, yes I take damage BUT I can decimate the hell out of tons of mobs now. If you are looking to play this class and want instant gratification, go play a rogue. If you want a class that has lots of cool talents and takes abit to get used to and build up. Then try one.
I would say from my own personal experience, it was not until the 30's that this class began to show its stuff. Basically the same time your Paragon trees open up.
Overall I am very happy I am lvling up as a GWF and do look forward to playing him at 60.
As a damage spec GW, level 16, I place right above the healer in damage so don't think you are alone.
You are incorrect, the GFW is not a DPS class. In fact the only DPS class in the game is TR. So to say that the GFW should have equal DPS to TR is incorrect. TR should be the highest DPS class in the game. However GFW should have better survival then the TR. GFW should be equal to CW in terms of DPS but less squishy and less CC.
Overall you and many many others on these forums do not understand the class roles in D&D. The GFW is a Defender class, TR is a Striker class and CW is a Controller class. D&D roles are different then the classic Tank, Heals, DPS & Support most are used to in a MMO.
Striker role = DPS role
Defender role = Tank role
Leader role = Healer/Support role
Controller role = Support role
Also DPS of thieves doesn't really matter, anyone with a brain would take a CW for damage over a TR any day;)
Well **** if thats true thats fine with me, I first built mine to tank but guess what. The GWF CANNOT tank, sure they can build some survivability but their threat generation is ****. I was tank spec in a epic dungeon where a cleric decided to open a mimic chest. I could not pull agro off this cleric the whole time I was killing it while all he was doing was just running around healing. I had every single threat boosting feat and still it didn't even look at me even after he knocked the cleric down. Also just an FYI the way Cryptic/Perfect World portrays the GWF in their GWF preview is as a DPS class. http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=859381. So please stop with the rogues are fine bull****. Oh and a good CW can out DPS a GWF every time.
I agree GWFs should have DPS on par with CWs. I also agree that GWFs need more defensive buffs. They should be able to take a lot more hits then they current can and they should have better threat if built defensively. A GWF built for defense should be on par with a GF. There is some tweaks that need to happen for sure and I hope Cryptic sticks to the 4e rule set and does not mess this up. The game is after all supposed be a D&D based MMO.
as a CW i think GWF should have MORE dmg than me, especially in pvp since i can literally kill him without getting hit once with all my CC... they are melee, melee should have more dps than ranged period, i get to start at 80m they dont get to start til they somehow make it to melee range... rogues do fine but these gimp fighters dont do anything! they are always last place in dungeons, beat by both the cleric and tank (unless lazy cleric ofc) and it's just so pathetic!!!
sad part is,t hey are fine until they made it so their dmg was static no matter the number of mobs... they need to revert that nerf so that if they swing for 100 on one enemy than with 5 enemies they should do 500 not 100 as they do now... as a CW my lightning strike will hit 1 target for 1000 and hit 50 targets for 50,000, ive cleared entire rooms with my big aoe spells with a single cast this way... GWF would do less than 1 dmg to each enemy if that many came on the screen... so pathetic...
--Nom Anor
The problem is he not a defender or a striker (DPS) but a hybrid of the two and as such is underpowered at both.
The other 4 classes are primary at there roles.
The Class Release Trailer also eluded to a DPS type character as well. Not to mention they cheapened one of the skills. (Mighty Leap) should have been (Reaver). I was hoping to toss my big sword at a mob before leapoing in to do AOE damage. Apparently they felt the needed to leave that out of game.
Regards
The second is armor class (AC) it seems that the melee classes have a huge disadvantage in NWO because there's no "to hit" roll. If you're in range and don't dodge you will be hit by the attack this makes high AC almost useless. Yea it adds more damage resistance but the difference between a wizard and a GWF is about 10% and that's a huge drop compared to having minions outright miss you. Maybe this is how 4E is? GWF feels this disadvantage the most because they can't block or dodge they have to move away and get hit while doing so.
Third is that they are sold as a aoe class but have the biggest aoe penalties with the damage spread vs many targets. It does seem strange they would do this to one class but not to others, they need to make it universal or remove it.
These 3 issues are the ones that stood out the most to me. The GWF's base damage is fine IMO but when you take into account the aoe penalties and compare them to a aoe class like the CW that doesn't have this, it makes the GWF look doubly bad.
Actually one more thing... Reaping Strike is terrible. The GWF can't afford to stand still for long and this attack just doesn't put out enough damage to warrant the damage you take charging it up. I'm pretty sure this is why they changed it and made it one of you're first powers or else no one would take it. One fix is to allow the GWF to use Sprint while charging this power up. Well it's more of a band-aid than a fix but at least it can make it a little useful then.
Regards
I agree with everything you said!
1. Lackluster skills
2. Weak damage output considering the intent of the class
3. Their "escape animation" blows. A sprint? Really? Why not at least a power parry or something to mitigate damage when they're capable?
The at-will that is basically an AOE baseball swing with a two-handed sword (the name eludes me right now) was worth the wind up, because it made you feel powerful. WHen you hit a trash mob they usually died from a full charge, and their corpses went flying off a few feet.
Then BW3 rolled around, the skill was greatly reduced in power, and you are very unlikely to kill any enemies with it, even on a full charge. This means you no longer get those awesome grandslam swings with enemies going flying. Even though they were only trash mobs, it gave a great illusion of power.
The GWF itself seems to be at odds with it's core mechanics. One of the class skills grants you more damage for every enemy you hit after the 3rd, yet the majority of the GWF skills have drastically reduced damage for every additional enemy you hit.
I'm sure Cryptic will figure it out, they were able to rebalance Cannons into being fun /and/ powerful again in STO, so I'm sure they can figure out a class that is a damage dealer (by their own definitions on this site), that currently doesn't do much damage in the early goings, and only semi-decent damage in the later levels.
Cleric level 5X (Dragon) - Holy goblin so much easier!
most of you haven't even reached 60 jet.
i played a gwf since cbt 2, reached 60 on sunday and am now fully t1 geared.
if the gwf wasn't adjusted by the defs before, it would outdamage any rogue by about 10% or more, which is a bit stupid as it being a hybrid class.. yes a HYBRID
i have jet to experience any encounter that wasn't tank-able with my dmg gear and specc, btw i run in a group-setup without a guardian so i'm the tank and 2nd in damage, after any good geared rogue by roughly 20%.
if you think it's underpowered then you're probably doing something wrong.
though i must admit that it was a good challenge to get him to level cap soloing, it's not balanced around soloing
Nyx