Trickster Rogue VS Great Weapon Fighter

undefeatedgaul · April 2013

In PVP it's (almost) always about the skill of the player, as long as any classes aren't OP
What's your take on those two DPS melee classes?

warpet · April 2013

i will play gwf,but tr had a lot bigger dps in bw3 and they even nerfed gwf even more for bw4 so now is even worse

lucienirenicus · April 2013

It's hard to say. GWF is the class I want to play, hands down, but they keep hitting it with the nerf bat. It's already a class with limited synergies: swing big sword, hit stuff. In PvP it's less effective than a TR.

That may change of course, we'll have to see once the heroes get in tomorrow. I really don't want any nerfs to any class at all, I'd be more than satisfied if they beefed up the usefulness of the GWF a little.

rabbinicus · April 2013

They're very different classes and I am reserving judgment on the GWF until open beta. GWF does need some love as they had sharply limited utility in BW4. People seemed to be using them as though they had the strongest rather than weakest aspects of the TR and GF, and that makes them a good bit more challenging to play - and not necessarily in the most enjoyable way.

The TR shreds in single combat melee DPS, but just can't take a hard hit. The GWF can take a few hits, but doesn't do enough damage one-on-one to stick in there.

selonw · April 2013

The more enemies, the stronger the gwf becomes

zingarbage · April 2013

Once the GWF gets his short cool down takedown and lunging strike, his strength in pvp goes up significantly. However, the GWF isn't even close in burst dps compared to the TR which is much more important.

kotli · April 2013

selonw wrote: »

The more enemies, the stronger the gwf becomes

In BW4 they don't because they changed it so a skill with 200 damage will do 200 damage to a single target and 100 damage to two targets and 50 damage to 4 etc.

derangedhero · April 2013

kotli wrote: »

In BW4 they don't because they changed it so a skill with 200 damage will do 200 damage to a single target and 100 damage to two targets and 50 damage to 4 etc.

Whoa. Please tell me this is not so. :eek:

It'd make AoE-centric playstyles pretty much pointless, unless the AoE powers they used were giant killing machines when used against single targets.

lucienirenicus · April 2013

derangedhero wrote: »

Whoa. Please tell me this is not so. :eek:

It'd make AoE-centric playstyles pretty much pointless, unless the AoE powers they used were giant killing machines when used against single targets.

AFAIK, this is correct. A GWF swings and hits with a single number of damage, regardless of how many enemies are surrounding her, and that damage is then spread out amongst the mobs it connects with.

EDIT: this may or may not be the case during release.

lexthegreat · April 2013

zingarbage wrote: »

Once the GWF gets his short cool down takedown and lunging strike, his strength in pvp goes up significantly. However, the GWF isn't even close in burst dps compared to the TR which is much more important.

But didn't they say the Rogue is getting nerfed in the "Nerf the TR" thread?

selonw · April 2013

Didnt know that, should be changed. Only played gwf to 30 but it felt weak in BWE3 in AoE already. It should keep on beeing mediocre in ST but AoE they should excell.

Maybe the longer they stay in combat, they get a 10% damage increase per swing?

zingarbage · April 2013

lexthegreat wrote: »

But didn't they say the Rogue is getting nerfed in the "Nerf the TR" thread?

They did adjust them a bit, but the problem isn't with TRs, they are basically fine. It is GWF that needs boosting.

silknight · April 2013

For PvP there is no competition, TR hands down. GWF as of week 4 was the worst PvP class, mostly due to the poor damage output. Unless they fix it before launch tommorrow, TR even if they nerf him a little will still be the better choice hands down.

smokeygb · April 2013

I played both through the Beta weekends and the drop off in the effectiveness of the GWF in Weekend 4 was stark. As it stands now, in term of utility, damage, and survivability the TR is far and away the more effective choice. Sad, as I love swatting things about with that greatsword. I'm stubborn enough that I'll likely begin rollign with one anyway, at least until the Archer is released.

skullklovn · April 2013

Rolling a class because its strong is dumb. I know certain people are horrible at games and love to play FoTM classes.
Why don't you just play whatever you want to play regardless of how strong or weak it is? Because it will get adjusted anyway down the road. And Cryptic has shown us that they do make adjustments fairly quickly.

neverasher · April 2013

GWF becomes a force once you get all their single target encounters/crescendo to rank 3 plus feat bonuses. You will hit hard enough to take out anyone but you'll have the extra damage resistance/cc immunity/mobility they do not. Just think about it. The way it was betaweekend 3, our damage was going to scale way too upwardly with the gear at endgame. I'll agree that they don't hit hard enough at lower levels(at least as it was) because of this and if gear stats actually gave bonuses based on your level and not seemingly based on a flat increase(100 crit rating=1% unless at cap no matter the level), then GWF would probably be more competitive at lower levels as well...but what is that really in the grand scheme of things? A couple days of playtime? Lvl 60 is long term and what matters.

lucienirenicus · April 2013

Honestly I am still torn. I want to be effective in PvP but I also want to have survivability in endgame PvE. I'm waiting to hear from the Heroes who get in tomorrow if there have been any changes.

terhix · April 2013

It's a commonly known fact that all rogues are cowards. PvP you say? Sure you will do PvP, and once you lay there bleeding to death in your cheap pig leather - just a moment after being steamrolled by a pain train of steel, muscles and manhood - you will look up and take one last glimpse at the silhouette covered in metal and blood of your cleric friend, you will think to yourself "that could've been me".

wendigoat · April 2013

Rogues are not cowards..they supply strategy..if you work with them you will prevail...I say protect your TR as they will help you move onward way faster and efficiently..They just use different ways to go about things as to complement a group...Bottom line,,, GWF better for Multiple Foes,, TR.better for Single Foe..Both have challenges but when in a party..can be awesome to one another with a good GF and Cleric..

terhix · April 2013

A real fighter doesn't protect, a real fighter goes in there and gets the beating onto himself not to defend his sidekicks, but to show them what it means to be a real man.

wendigoat · April 2013

Well,,, the way terhix describes the fighter..am not sure... i would have a GWF that is smarter than this i think...the way you describe is like some sort of UFC redneck hillbilly charging into the fray against a well honed and rounded George St-Pierre... i dunno man..I'd like to think more of my GWF than this...hehehee... However i do agree with the role of a Fighter..not the execution though..LOL Peace..

fexhie · April 2013

I did not get to play bw4, but based on the changes I saw, the class to play in pvp is going to be Control Wizard. Rogues will I think still be pretty fun, but they are going to get mauled by the cc from multiple control wizards and priests. GWF is probably going to be bottom of the barrel, with the only thing going for it, AC. No dodging skills for defense, no burst damage, limited gap closers/ranged/crowd control to help when someone is kiting or running away from them. I just think they are going to be really hard pressed to carve a nice niche in the pvp matches. I think even guardians will be able to kill more effectively while staying alive. Especially if they go a more offensive then defensive route with skills/stats. Cuz I mean blocking blocks no matter if your wearing a tank top or some plate mail. And they still have a decent amount of burst they can toss in inbetween blocks. I have never played a Cleric but I wouldn't be suprised to find even the healing clerics being better at dishing out the kills.

terhix · April 2013

With slow-immune sprint, mighty leap, punishing charge, come and get it, battle fury, savage advance and if you try hard enough even avalanche of steel the Great Weapon Fighter is lacking gap closers. More news at 11.

neverasher · April 2013

I liken GWF to a Dagger/Dagger elementalist in Guild Wars 2. Highly mobile, highly resilient with enough juice to take anyone down. Only with a giant weapon, more armor, and more hit points. D/D elementalist was also thought of as weak early on but people learned it's effectiveness as time went on.

imivo · April 2013

skullklovn wrote: »

Rolling a class because its strong is dumb. I know certain people are horrible at games and love to play FoTM classes. Why don't you just play whatever you want to play regardless of how strong or weak it is? Because it will get adjusted anyway down the road.

I used to think that way, and ended up stuck with inferior classes for months and years in other MMOs.

Playing what you want to play is a good approach, but sometimes that isn't enough to make it fun. Putting in more effort than class X for half the results isn't fun. It's frustrating. Feeling like you don't carry your weight in a dungeon is not fun. Feeling like a liability when you join a PvP match isn't fun. Getting dismantled by a worse player who picked the better class isn't fun. No matter how much you like a class, those aspects matter.

I'm not saying that the above will be the case for the GWF, or that fixes won't come quickly. It is beta after all and Cryptic seems to be on the ball. I'm just that guy who wanted to play a shadow priest in vanilla WoW and then ended up having to heal for nearly two years because changes didn't come. And the guy who wanted to play a feral cat, but who ended up healing because those fixes also didn't come for a long time. And I spent a whole expansion (almost two years too) waiting for feral cat PvP fixes that never came, all the while frost mages roflstomped my kitty. It caused me a lot of frustration and resentment.

Of course, here I am, probably rolling a GWF tonight.

(Well, and a cleric, I want to get both to 25-30 and then decide which one will be the main and gets the extra bank space and such.)

neverasher · April 2013

This isn't what everyone wants to hear and will probably bring the roar out of most of ya's but here it is.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/7351/Open-Beta-Launch-Interview.html/page/1

Zeke Sparkes: The Control Wizard and Great Weapon Fighter saw the biggest changes but opposite direction. Control Wizards did not have enough control in PvE and that was increased but skills stayed the same in PvP to give them a bit of extra damage. He was a bit underpowered.

The Great Weapon Fighter is the other side of the coin and there were a lot of people who were sad we clipped his wings a bit. He was a bit faster than other classes in leveling and power. He can deal a lot of damage to a lot of critters. It was a little too high on the damage side. It got brought back in. This happened before CBW 4. Data coming back was very good. He’s back in line with the others. He’s still a bit strong.

warpet · April 2013

neverasher wrote: »

This isn't what everyone wants to hear and will probably bring the roar out of most of ya's but here it is.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/feature/7351/Open-Beta-Launch-Interview.html/page/1

i find this funny since even whit so called op aoes he had in bw3 he could not out damage single target rouge in total damage in dungeons which are mostly 5-10 +mobs fight all time

smokeygb · April 2013

The Great Weapon Fighter is the other side of the coin and there were a lot of people who were sad we clipped his wings a bit. He was a bit faster than other classes in leveling and power. He can deal a lot of damage to a lot of critters. It was a little too high on the damage side. It got brought back in. This happened before CBW 4. Data coming back was very good

I did not find this true in my personal experience at all. Time will tell but from what I've seen that Greatsword is not packing the punch it should.

silknight · April 2013

Yea don't bother with the Great Weapon Fighter. They're still nerfed

rufusscipio23 · April 2013

You guys are nuts. Its not OP like BW1 TR but the GWF has plenty of punch, especially if you build your determination enough. Ignoring CC is nothing to sneeze at.

xantris · April 2013

Calling for nerfs or buffs to any class before spending a respectable amount of time at level cap(and with decent gear) is irresponsible and just a plain bad idea.

For all we know the GWF might absolutely demolish stuff at 60 with good gear... And the TR might suffer in end-game elite instances due to a lack of AoE and survivability.

Trickster Rogue VS Great Weapon Fighter

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