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Decisions, decisions -- Classes!
imivo
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
Strangely, a few days ago I had a pretty good idea what my first character would be. Now with the launch/headstart just being around the corner, things get more tricky! 
I was originally set on a human Devout Cleric as a main character. I do plan on leveling one of each, but the first character you take to max level is always a bit special. I may still go with that, because I like how the class combines healing and dps, and I think it will be a useful class for high level group content (the first two dungeons didn't seem to need any more than a companion healer).
But after watching some more videos and going over skills, I've become fairly interested in the Great Weapon Fighter. The added bonus would be that this class works well as a Tiefling. I don't necessarily like the demonic background, but I sure like the tails! I guess it's a side effect of having played a feral cat druid in that other MMO for years. Over the years I also drifted from preferring ranged classes to enjoying the more hands-on combat style of melee classes in MMOs and ARPGs. And D3 ensured that kiting was something I had enough of! (Not that being kited is much fun, either!)
I'd opt for the Trickster Rogue, since he's the closest to a feral druid the game has to offer, but I think the class will be over-played and it's a little more squishy than I'd like. Also the relative lack of AoE lowers my interest. It probably IS the most enjoyable and effective melee option right now, but yeah, I think it will be super popular for a while.
My concern with the GWF is that it seems almost "too hybrid" in the "neither here nor there" way. Not really a tank/defender, but also not really a dps/striker. Or rather, mediocre at both. At least that's what I get from reading posts and watching videos. It also seems to be the least suitable choice for PvP, but then again, I haven't really tried it. They do look like CW fodder, though.
I also considered a CW and a GF, but the blocking mechanic doesn't appeal to me, at least at this time. And the Wizard, well, it does look very interesting and I can see the huge potential in PvP, and damage seems to be pretty good at the higher end, but it's ranged and can't heal, so it's something I'll play at some point, but probably not at first.
Right now I'm considering to just play two characters simultaneously, until I make up my mind which I enjoy more. The human DC or the Tiefling GWF. At least I have names and background stories for those two, too!
What about you guys? All ready and set, decisions made and ready to rock? Or, like me, still spending heaps of time on pondering, reading and watching videos?
I was originally set on a human Devout Cleric as a main character. I do plan on leveling one of each, but the first character you take to max level is always a bit special. I may still go with that, because I like how the class combines healing and dps, and I think it will be a useful class for high level group content (the first two dungeons didn't seem to need any more than a companion healer).
But after watching some more videos and going over skills, I've become fairly interested in the Great Weapon Fighter. The added bonus would be that this class works well as a Tiefling. I don't necessarily like the demonic background, but I sure like the tails! I guess it's a side effect of having played a feral cat druid in that other MMO for years. Over the years I also drifted from preferring ranged classes to enjoying the more hands-on combat style of melee classes in MMOs and ARPGs. And D3 ensured that kiting was something I had enough of! (Not that being kited is much fun, either!)
I'd opt for the Trickster Rogue, since he's the closest to a feral druid the game has to offer, but I think the class will be over-played and it's a little more squishy than I'd like. Also the relative lack of AoE lowers my interest. It probably IS the most enjoyable and effective melee option right now, but yeah, I think it will be super popular for a while.
My concern with the GWF is that it seems almost "too hybrid" in the "neither here nor there" way. Not really a tank/defender, but also not really a dps/striker. Or rather, mediocre at both. At least that's what I get from reading posts and watching videos. It also seems to be the least suitable choice for PvP, but then again, I haven't really tried it. They do look like CW fodder, though.
I also considered a CW and a GF, but the blocking mechanic doesn't appeal to me, at least at this time. And the Wizard, well, it does look very interesting and I can see the huge potential in PvP, and damage seems to be pretty good at the higher end, but it's ranged and can't heal, so it's something I'll play at some point, but probably not at first.
Right now I'm considering to just play two characters simultaneously, until I make up my mind which I enjoy more. The human DC or the Tiefling GWF. At least I have names and background stories for those two, too!
What about you guys? All ready and set, decisions made and ready to rock? Or, like me, still spending heaps of time on pondering, reading and watching videos?
Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
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In bw1 I started a tr but because I was used to tab targeting I had a hard time so I switched to a cleric and thought my main would be a human cleric. However in bw3 after learning the system I found tr actually suited my playstyle a lot more and I was much more effective on teams so after launch I shall be known as Klawzzt.
DO NOT PLAY A GWF, as of right now, they are so misplaced that even the Dev's won't say anything about them, that's how bad it is.
IF you do play a GWF, please understand you will be at the bottom of the barrel. The aoe damage/cleaving is great but its not high damage, even charging up the shots doesn't give you enough damage for the time charged. *shrugs* Go rogue or wizard for damage, or Fighter guardian for tanking for the group.
I started to play one in bwe3, and I didn't like the slow cast/charge up time either;
but it kinda reminded me of the beserker on Tera, which had one self heal attack in midlevels, which was nice.
Maybe they need to add something like that for the gwf here (if they don't already have something similar),
or at least amp up the attack power for the slower skills,
I mean, if you're going to have an attack that has a slow charge up time, it should at least be harder-hitting.
So I will be playing a Great Weapon Fighter and a Control Wizard pretty much equally.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
The class is a bit off on several fronts.
Sentinel Feat Line / Defender role: Less mitigation than the Guardian. Less self healing than the Guardian. Much less threat thank the Guardian. Less AoE than other builds because you are forced into Sure Strike. Solo ability is phenomenal but group play is unspectacular. They really need to work on making the self heal a little better, and the instant AoE threat of Come And Get It and Battle Shout, along with the Sentinel feat to add damage and threat, a LOT better. Doing that and putting the same 0.5 Damage Resistance on Constitution that a Guardian gets would still make them a 2nd tank to the Guardian, but they would compensate with more damage if they fix the damage issues.
Destroyer Feat Line / PvE AoE damage role: You are forced into Weapon Master's Strike and Reaping Strike along with AoE damage encounters. If you build well this actually works pretty well and they put out a lot of damage. The only draw back is that they have less survival than a rogue in leather. This also needs to be addressed. Possibly some feat choices that enhance offense and add a slight side benefit to their survival.
Instigator Feat Line / PVP and Alternate DPS role: This build features Wicked Strike and Combat Advantage. It actually looks pretty attractive as a simpler play style than the Destroyer and allowing some cool tricks for PvP. The big draw back to this line is that it will not do as much damage as the Destroyer if both are played well. It is also a pretty boring play style for some.
No matter what you do, go STR > DEX > CON. Some builds like an Instigator that feature Combat Advantage, may even want to feature Cha over Con. That all depends on how you like to PvP and how much of a glass cannon you are willing to be. As for race, it really don't matter in the end what you play on what class. Tiefling is probably the worst choice for min / maxing a GWF but the difference in that and a Half-Orc is only about 3% in damage.
All in all the GWF class has a lot of potential and is in a LOT better shape than Druids and Paladins were in WoW at launch. Really just some minor adjustments here and there and each build can shine and compete. As for PvP if you build right, you are going to smack the heck out of a Control Wizard. GWF are the most mobile and least controllable class in the game when played right. You also can load up a lot of single target burst damage encounter and daily powers that stun and knock prone. A typical PvP loadout might have Punishing Charge or Mighty Leap for mobility along with Flourish which is very good single damage with a stun and Takedown which is good single damage with a knock down. Compliment that with something like Avalanche of Steel and Savage Advance for daily powers and Sure Strike / Wicked Strike and you have a very nice power set. I would probably go with Bravery for one passive to get Deflect and Movement Speed. The other passive is up to you, there might be a synergy with one in the Instigator line. The other sweet thing about the GWF in PvP, is when you go unstoppable it breaks CC, makes you immune to CC, and pumps up your damage and mitigation. On top of that the sprint ability will make slow effects immune, so it can counter the frost ray attack from a Control Wizard. In fact the Sprint will break many controls effects. Don't go based on the Youtube videos of GWF play sessions. Most of those guys are far from masters with the class. Some of the PvP videos seriously make me groan.
Edit: A lot of the reason GWF suck is that they are the hardest class to understand how to build and play. That being said they are still about 10-15% off of being the proper balance in certain regards. Damage, Threat, Survival as a base class.
I never play healers. I can't do it, the thought of staring at red bars for most of my in-game career is abhorrent.
Also, I rarely focus on playing a tank seriously. This is because, while my schedule is very much free, I do tend to suddenly have to do something else than play a video game, not to mention I tend to reroll around a lot, and I simply don't want to disappoint a whole guild with my unreliability. It's one thing when the raid is missing a dps and a whole other thing when it's missing the main/off tank.
So yeah, it's very likely I will be playing a female human trickster rogue or control wizard. At least until an archer class is added and it doesn't suck at 1v1 pvp.
Even if it is off in Open Beta, I think it will get fixed in months not years. I am rolling one as my main. I keep flip flopping on offense versus defense on the build. Lately I am leaning more towards offense because that build allows me to be a Destroyer which is my favorite, and the most complex and misunderstood, play style. But that means I will suxor in PvP and I really have no interest in the Instigator line. Which brings me back around to a less damage but more add tank oriented Sentinel build. And I go through this flip flop on build and class role all day long....
Bleh I am going to look into the Instigator line and see if I can find a build that I like.
Ah, I healed in WoW for years, and actually, in PvP it was always really challenging because you had to keep yourself alive, your pets (especially those who peel for you, which meant nobody in random matches), stay mobile, mind where you stand, and ideally be where you are needed. In 2vs2 (I didn't like any other format), CC was also needed, and sometimes supporting damage, all while managing the mana pool. I always found it more rewarding than dps. It also irritates the opponent far more if you heal up the "sure kill" the enemy thought they had.
In PvE, healing can be fun, but was mostly annoying in WoW because you saw all the mistakes people made. Or you had to deal with attitudes ... "WHY DIDN'T YOU HEAL ME?!" ... "Uh, you stood in the dark stuff on the ground..." ... "AND? I COULDN'T MOVE, HAD TO DPS! JUST HEAL!" ... "It reduces healing by 100%.". People are reckless when they think they have a healer and they think healers have unlimited mana. When Cataclysm came out, I found healing so unbearable that I went from part-time cat to full-time cat.
This is something I worry about in Neverwinter, too. If people come to NW with the expectation that healers work like they do in WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, etc., they will be sorely disappointed -- and will take it out on the cleric who was expected to be able to top people's bars.
But yes, I think I'll play a GWF and a DC, most likely both as Tieflings, because of the tail. Not sure I like the faces of the males, but will have to play some with that. Argantis has been very inspirational as far as the GWF is concerned. (In other words, I will blame him if it sucks at higher levels.
I imagine it will get better at higher levels when people have eaten dirt often enough to realize that they have to pay attention and quaff potions. But who knows, it probably depends a lot on people's gaming background.
You said you were going to tank and also play on Dragon? Might want to hook up at higher levels, if I focus on the cleric. I imagine decent tanks will be the hardest to come by. Keeping aggro and managing it without croaking seems to be a ton of work in this game.
I have a pretty colored WoW history as well, did the whole nine yards on a Paladin and Druid. I never played a kitty because I was always Resto or Bear. My pally was usually my main anyhow and I much preferred Ret to kitty. Though I did do a lot of PvP as a kitty / bear hybrid. I even played an elemental shaman for a while. At one point my WoW account was worth about 4 grand, but I never wanted to risk getting hacked to sell it.
I too worry about baddies standing in the red splats in NWO. Heck sometimes I suck at it myself. But usually it is just because I am tired, been at it too long, or just don't know the encounter yet. I went into the Mad Dragon and killed it in the first shot. Our cleric only died from adds twice, I really worked my butt off but still had little I could do to pull threat off of him. He was a darn good cleric too. I have also pretty much duo killed more than one boss with just me and a GF or me and a TR left. I will eventually play all of the classes and I probably would have been a DC but my brother is playing one and it would suck to always have two of us in a group when we queue or do guild runs. I also was going to be a TR but the masses rushing to play them turned me off on it. So I am on the GWF for some pretty similar reasons.
At the end of the day it is the player that others will value, not so much the class and even as gimp as we are, I can honestly say that I have never been the most useless person in a group. And that is over about 20-30 skirmish, PvP, and dungeon runs in closed beta.
It is kind of a dual edged thing for me. I agree that a good group can avoid most if not all of the red splat damage. However the random add aggro will make healing important in that regard. I cannot speak for other classes but the self healing of the GWF is pretty pathetic and only the most defensive of builds would spec into it. GWF are big time potion spammers and if they build offensively, they will be less durable than a rogue. They are a step above the DC and CW but have no on demand encounter CC. My one encounter self heal will do about 1/30th of my life bar every 12 seconds or so. If I spec into it maybe 1/20th every 12 seconds and another 1/30th every 40 seconds. This is a big reason why I am leaning towards a more defensive build, because the offensive guys are going to spend more on potions than any other class in the game. I also did not notice much self healing if any on the TR or CW beyond potions. At least the TR has bait and switch and stealth though. Really the only class with a lot of self heals is the DC and GF.
Just to go ahead and nip this in the bud: The Devs rarely post anything on the forums because they're working their tucuses off trying to get the game to launch. If you've EVER done any sort of deadline based creative work you know how insane it can get just before release.
They would also have to go through Marketing to get any statement approved IF they were to have time to make a post on the forums specifying any information on Developer Intent for character classes or gameplay balance that hasn't already been approved.
In short: Silence does not mean shame. It means silence.
-Rachel-
Of course I can hardly guarantee that I'm going to be a decent tank, but for what it counts, I don't usually pick fault with everyone around me and I tend to appreciate my healers.
It might be too soon to set anything in stone, but if the opportunity arises, I'll be happy to help.
As for all the concerns regarding the GWF, their damage, survivability and what have you - chill!
A huge reason why I did not port my GWF Breakdown over from the beta forums. But until I get in and actually see what they did all I can speak on is known values. Sure they might change it, and drastically, but they also might not change it at all, or they might change it for the worse.
Concerns valid, proof coming. No one is freaking out, just discussing the merits of the class in the last known configuration.
I watch lots of streams and it is hard finding streams of guardians. I have watched streams of all the classes and they all look good.
Wow, you just completely threw me off here, because you're making perfect sense. I'm not used to seeing that on the internet! Haha! I like you! You made the internet a happier place today! :cool:
Well, I'll cross all available fingers and toes that, should there be any changes to the GWF, they're all gonna be for the better!
From there jump back and forth as my ADHD dictates.
This is a win-win for the people that want to rush to end game because I wont be in their way or slow them down.
Even people who have to work in the daytime tomorrow will out-level me pretty fast. Heck, Guardians will surpass me.
I'll get there when I get there.
Now when they release a Scourge Warlock then that is a different story. Everything else will go on the back-burner!
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
Try slaying this dwarf and you will get hit in the head with a hammer. :P
I love me some caster but in every game I tend to make my first end-game character something more beefy... for some reason that translates to me as "have good self-healing" and I end up with healer classes.
So making 4 characters at start but leveling cleric first and foremost:
half-elf DC
tiefling CW
elf CW
drow TR
hardehar drow TR just like everyone else :P.