Right, but my point is that we aren't traveling from Neverwinter to Waterdeep.
In and around Neverwinter would have been more precise.
It's the areas we would find in the Neverwinter Capaign Setting.
- The game is in beta. It is not done, development continues. There may only be five classes now, and perhaps not even the ones that some people would like, but more are in the works. WoW did not start with as many as it has now, either, nor were they as refined. Would I have preferred an archer instead of two fighters? Yes, sure, but it is a beta, and it is free-to-play, so I will level the other classes that appeal to me in the meanwhile. Not everyone likes alts, granted, but I had dozens of characters in Diablo 2, and one of each class in WoW, so my view differs. Plus, Neverwinter is not WoW, you can have more than one "main", because there is nothing like raid instances where you need gear from the precious raid instance, and alts could never catch up.
- Yes, in WoW you can run up and down an entire continent seamlessly. However, no one does that. Early on, yes, there were few flight points (and people complained). Now? You walk two steps and you are at a flight point. Cities have portals. Flight mounts with speed bonuses get you from point A to point B without interaction with the world, often in auto-flight mode while youngo and get a drink. The open world of WoW is mostly a theoretical thing and the way people travel and go to places is only academically dfferent from how they do it in Neverwinter. Most of WoW's world is completely empty outside of cities. Everyone is sitting at either the bank or kills stuff in an instance or a battleground, which is also instanced, entered by teleporting from any place. The days of having to go to a dungeon ended years ago, killing world PvP in the process.
- Neverwinter is a hybrid. It is somewhere between WoW and Diablo. It is faster, more action-oriented, less tedious than WoW. It is more social, more open and more co-op focused than Diablo. For me, it combines the best of two worlds.
- It is free-to-play. No one needs to convince anyone else of the game, since everyone can just hop on and try it out. Like it? Good, keep playing, maybe spend some money to support it. Not having fun? Just as well, thanks for trying, sorry it didn't work out, check back later after the beta! No one lost anything. So there is no need for the MMO-typical religious wars. Neverwinter will not steal any game's subs, because it does not have subs.
kotliMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 577
edited April 2013
For the classes the 5 in game ATM are the ones the managed to get up to release standard. That is they feel right when playing and got all there the skills. The posted something somewhere on here about them having trouble with the archer ranger IE they havnt got enough powers etc that feel right to release it.
0
elloradannonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited April 2013
4 more days and I will find out for myself! Thanks for all the info! HAIL DENEIR
I still would love more feedback from anyone who has played, such as what they like about the game, what they dislike (keep it to a point) and if they see themselves playing this consistently!
Like you i hated DDO (dungeons and dragons online) i felt that over all it was a joke when compared to an actual D&D game. But this has just so much potential its hard to say yet if it will be the next big thing. But as someone who generally can't get into mmo's i got into this during Beta weekend 3 and beta weekend 4 i was so hyped to play with permanent characters i refused to play anymore because i wanted to keep the story a surprise. (something i don't generally do for any video game i assure you).
It may not be a WoW killer but it is deffinately a DDO killer.
Nah, it's not a WoW killer in the least. It's missing a ton of features that make WoW what it is. What it is, though, (at least for me) is maybe an interesting way to pass the time until Wildstar is released in November, as I really got NOTHING to play right now with the video game market churning out garbage or mediocre games that never go above 6.5/10 in the user ratings (not the very much self-interested magazine/websites who can't rate a game as low as it deserves, in fear of getting on the publisher's/producer's bad side, which will have dire consequences in the long run), and nothing good is announced until fall anyway.
So...PLEASE, God, let this game not be just another mediocre game that gets demolished on Metacritic.
0
ph0enix991Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
So, as a newbie I have a question: Are the quest dialects spoken or not? Somehow I got used to SWTOR spoken dialects.
This game has the potential to shock some people. It has enough elements of other MMO games mixed into it that are highly popular to create a unique hybrid that could very well be the next big industry giant. It really is all up to Cryptic on two fronts at this point.
1) Making a community friendly cash shop. Right now there is a few thorns among the roses for many players.
2) Supporting the game post launch with continual development. Including class balance and a healthy dose of free respec tokens in regards to that. Other than that the only two major flaws are the roll system, which I think about 70% or more of the player base would like to change, and the lack of creativity in boss fights. Right now the adds are the number one group killer and they need some serious adjustment on aggro in those regards. I am not advocating a trinity, but something needs to give here and there needs to be some bosses without adds. It is not very epic to have the number one danger in the boss fights be the minions and not the big guy. That can work sometimes, but not all of the time.
So, as a newbie I have a question: Are the quest dialects spoken or not? Somehow I got used to SWTOR spoken dialects.
Some but not all. There has been an increase in that through the various beta weekends, so maybe they all will be some day. For now it has two issues.
1) I am not even sure how many are supposed to, because my voice overs randomly turn off and on. And no I am not hitting any keys to do that or mouse clicks.
2) The Foundry content will be a long ways off in this regard, if it ever happens.
0
gocubsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited April 2013
How are the quests in general more story based or your typical fetch me 10 wolf pelts/5 flowers type?
How are the quests in general more story based or your typical fetch me 10 wolf pelts/5 flowers type?
The quests are more story based than WoW but not so much that they feel much different. The story line behind them is much better, if you read it or listen to the voice over you know why you are fetching 10 crates of supplies or pulling arrows from the dead. But you do still have those types of quests and sometimes they get a big ambiguous.
The foundry content on the other hand can be quite different. Of particular note is the Dweomerkeeper Series by Zebular. I have not had the chance to test more than 3-4 of them but I can say that even when one did not knock it out of the park for me, I left comments as to what I did not like, and next beta weekend much was improved in the quest. So there is some real potential here. Unfortunately this content is mostly solo at the moment and it is going to be down the road for it to be group based.
0
ph0enix991Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Some but not all. There has been an increase in that through the various beta weekends, so maybe they all will be some day. For now it has two issues.
1) I am not even sure how many are supposed to, because my voice overs randomly turn off and on. And no I am not hitting any keys to do that or mouse clicks.
2) The Foundry content will be a long ways off in this regard, if it ever happens.
I don't mind if my character can't speak. As long as there is a dialect speech I'm happy. With speech included, devs can create dialect animations and create a more detailed and profound experience for all players.
I don't mind if my character can't speak. As long as there is a dialect speech I'm happy. With speech included, devs can create dialect animations and create a more detailed and profound experience for all players.
Ohhh I see what you mean now. Hmm well there is different voice actors. But I am not sure if there is any sort of actual dialects or languages like in SWTOR. I honestly did not pay that close of attention!
I don't mind if my character can't speak. As long as there is a dialect speech I'm happy. With speech included, devs can create dialect animations and create a more detailed and profound experience for all players.
Dude, considering how npcs look and act during conversations, I think dialects would be something totally out of this world for Cryptic.
You should be, because as long as the system uses any variant of HP, a trinity is inevitable. Trying to avoid it just makes the game frustrating and elevates DPS to dominance, because Healing and Tanking extend fights, and DPS ends them.
You should be, because as long as the system uses any variant of HP, a trinity is inevitable. Trying to avoid it just makes the game frustrating and elevates DPS to dominance, because Healing and Tanking extend fights, and DPS ends them.
I am fine with the 4 roles that are predefined of Defender, Leader, Controller, Striker, along with some hybrid builds that are some elements of some of them. 3 roles is pretty boring and after 10 yeas of MMO games with it, I am ready for some change, even if it just takes the same principles and makes it more complex and dynamic.
Serious PVE cannot happen without the trinity. Making classes able to do everything in a pve encounter only means the boss is very limited in mechanics.
No trinity --> <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> proof pve with no sense of accomplishment, along the lines of WoW's LFR raids.
I am fine with the 4 roles that are predefined of Defender, Leader, Controller, Striker, along with some hybrid builds that are some elements of some of them. 3 roles is pretty boring and after 10 yeas of MMO games with it, I am ready for some change, even if it just takes the same principles and makes it more complex and dynamic.
A pen and paper RPG of necessity works differently than a video game. Dungeon Masters actively work to make the game more fun by directing the NPC traffic to appropriate places, fudge rolls, etc. to make things more fun, but a computer can't detect "fun".
Any action you take in an HP-based game accomplishes one or a combination of the following:
Remove HP
Add HP
Prevent removal of HP
If you make a hybrid more effective at a combination of two of these than two individuals would be, you wind up with nobody taking anything BUT that hybrid. If you make it hard to excel in any one of these, then everybody concentrates on DPS because it's the only way to make up for the lack.
Controllers are ranged Tanks; Leaders improve the ability of DPS to remove HP, and/or of Tanks to prevent removal of HP, and/or of Healers to add HP. If you make them more effective at performing one of those roles, then everybody will play Leaders, and if you make them less effective hardly anybody will.
What works with a DM doesn't necessarily work with an algorithm.
So far I've enjoyed the game a ton (got a key for bwe2 and then bought HoTN I was so enamoured with the forgotten realms setting). I've personally never played D&D so I can't offer any opinions in that light. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career of MMO playing. (couldn't resist the Taken reference; forgive me-- but I have played MMO's for the past 11 years starting with eq and DAoC and obtained pretty good lore knowledge from reading a ton of FR novels.).
That being said this is my overall input on the game.
1). First 20 levels are a bit too easy. I was concerned at first, but after making low 30s, I've come to the realization that the earlygame is like a set of stairs into a pool: it helps ease people into the water who wouldn't want to jump straight in, and the challenge ramps up to an acceptable level in the late 20s [on GWF anyhow].
2). The Zen prices are HIGH, but not inappropriatly so when one compared them to the amount of effort required in game to acquire those same t3 35-40$ items (a ton of hours). All this discussed I've got the impression that OP is a GoTN and thus doesn't need to worry as much about these ultra expensive items. In the case that you want to really push for endgame content I reccomend maybe splurging on a health stone as this huge potion supply will help you speed through the leveling process-- though I find it to be unnecessary if you are not trying for a breakneck leveling pace.
3). As for the game it is a pretty amazing setup. It far exceeds the quality of most of the f2p MMO's on the market and is more in line with a paid mmo standard (maybe not AAA, but on the way there). I'm looking at Archeage and wildstar as big competitors for the MMO market of this tier, though one would be foolish not to make mention of ESO [though I expect that to cater more for an AAA audience). and I'm of the opinion that this game has much better lore (though maybe not gameplay) over either of those, which really helps to addict the player.
4). FOUNDRY!, FOUNDRY!, FOUNDRY!-- I think this is the feature that will make this game when considered in combination with the extensive depth of lore and the potential market of many DM's from D&D. Last beta weekend I played "i AM SLAYER" or something of the sort and it exceeded my expectations for community driven work. After that I checked out some videos and was astounded at the depth of detail you can customize. I'm really looking forward to my first foundry mission that I create.
While I still hold some reservations as I have not tried the Endgame, mention of "Gauntlgrym" fills me of nostalgia for a Dark Age of Camelot PVP/PVE dungeon named "Darkness Falls" that was awesome. Hopefully this game ends up as limitless in potential as it seems, and I don't think I will regret my 200$ expenditure.
That's my tidbit; excuse the wall of text and any grammar errors I beg of you- typed this on my phone between patients at work.
A pen and paper RPG of necessity works differently than a video game. Dungeon Masters actively work to make the game more fun by directing the NPC traffic to appropriate places, fudge rolls, etc. to make things more fun, but a computer can't detect "fun".
Any action you take in an HP-based game accomplishes one or a combination of the following:
Remove HP
Add HP
Prevent removal of HP
If you make a hybrid more effective at a combination of two of these than two individuals would be, you wind up with nobody taking anything BUT that hybrid. If you make it hard to excel in any one of these, then everybody concentrates on DPS because it's the only way to make up for the lack.
Controllers are ranged Tanks; Leaders improve the ability of DPS to remove HP, and/or of Tanks to prevent removal of HP, and/or of Healers to add HP. If you make them more effective at performing one of those roles, then everybody will play Leaders, and if you make them less effective hardly anybody will.
What works with a DM doesn't necessarily work with an algorithm.
I think you misunderstand the roles. First of all four roles have always existed. In EQ the trinity was 3 specific classes, not even roles.
There has always been the Tank, Healer, Controller, and DPS. EQ emphasized Control more than DPS, WoW emphasized DPS more than Control. All DnD 4e does is break down the roles more specifically. Both Controller and Striker are DPS but they have a different emphasis. One is AoE damage and control and the other is single target damage and mobility.
Controller: Controllers focus on affecting multiple targets at once, either damaging or debuffing them, or altering the battlefield's terrain. Some classes, such as Wizards and Invokers, are focused towards ranged combat, while Druids can specialize in ranged or melee combat.
Defender: Defenders focus on blocking attacking enemies and focusing their attacks on themselves. Defender classes are typically focused on melee combat, however some classes such as Swordmages also have ranged combat capabilities.
Leader: Leaders are focused on buffing and healing allies. Some Leader classes and builds are focused towards either melee or ranged combat, however the role as a whole is not.
Striker: Strikers are focused on mobility, dealing heavy damage to single targets and avoiding attacks. Some Striker classes and builds are focused towards either melee or ranged combat, however the role as a whole is not.
All of these fit well into the so called trinity model, all NWO does is stay true to the DnD 4E roles that balance a controller with a striker and spread the roles across two classes rather than focusing on just one aspect of them for the entire game.
Don't you worry and fret, there is a trinity of sorts in Neverwinter, and it always will be there. But is not going to be like WoW, or EQ. It is going to be its own thing. As players get to end game it will be emphasized more and companions will be less and less able to compensate for a missing role in the group dynamic. Eventually when raids come to be, down the road a long time from now this will be reinforced even more than it is now. They can flex the trinity model, but I highly doubt they want to break it.
Comments
After level 20-30 that changes. The areas get quite large.
Most of the hubs are actually not located within the city.
In and around Neverwinter would have been more precise.
It's the areas we would find in the Neverwinter Capaign Setting.
- The game is in beta. It is not done, development continues. There may only be five classes now, and perhaps not even the ones that some people would like, but more are in the works. WoW did not start with as many as it has now, either, nor were they as refined. Would I have preferred an archer instead of two fighters? Yes, sure, but it is a beta, and it is free-to-play, so I will level the other classes that appeal to me in the meanwhile. Not everyone likes alts, granted, but I had dozens of characters in Diablo 2, and one of each class in WoW, so my view differs. Plus, Neverwinter is not WoW, you can have more than one "main", because there is nothing like raid instances where you need gear from the precious raid instance, and alts could never catch up.
- Yes, in WoW you can run up and down an entire continent seamlessly. However, no one does that. Early on, yes, there were few flight points (and people complained). Now? You walk two steps and you are at a flight point. Cities have portals. Flight mounts with speed bonuses get you from point A to point B without interaction with the world, often in auto-flight mode while youngo and get a drink. The open world of WoW is mostly a theoretical thing and the way people travel and go to places is only academically dfferent from how they do it in Neverwinter. Most of WoW's world is completely empty outside of cities. Everyone is sitting at either the bank or kills stuff in an instance or a battleground, which is also instanced, entered by teleporting from any place. The days of having to go to a dungeon ended years ago, killing world PvP in the process.
- Neverwinter is a hybrid. It is somewhere between WoW and Diablo. It is faster, more action-oriented, less tedious than WoW. It is more social, more open and more co-op focused than Diablo. For me, it combines the best of two worlds.
- It is free-to-play. No one needs to convince anyone else of the game, since everyone can just hop on and try it out. Like it? Good, keep playing, maybe spend some money to support it. Not having fun? Just as well, thanks for trying, sorry it didn't work out, check back later after the beta! No one lost anything. So there is no need for the MMO-typical religious wars. Neverwinter will not steal any game's subs, because it does not have subs.
Like you i hated DDO (dungeons and dragons online) i felt that over all it was a joke when compared to an actual D&D game. But this has just so much potential its hard to say yet if it will be the next big thing. But as someone who generally can't get into mmo's i got into this during Beta weekend 3 and beta weekend 4 i was so hyped to play with permanent characters i refused to play anymore because i wanted to keep the story a surprise. (something i don't generally do for any video game i assure you).
It may not be a WoW killer but it is deffinately a DDO killer.
So...PLEASE, God, let this game not be just another mediocre game that gets demolished on Metacritic.
This game has the potential to shock some people. It has enough elements of other MMO games mixed into it that are highly popular to create a unique hybrid that could very well be the next big industry giant. It really is all up to Cryptic on two fronts at this point.
1) Making a community friendly cash shop. Right now there is a few thorns among the roses for many players.
2) Supporting the game post launch with continual development. Including class balance and a healthy dose of free respec tokens in regards to that. Other than that the only two major flaws are the roll system, which I think about 70% or more of the player base would like to change, and the lack of creativity in boss fights. Right now the adds are the number one group killer and they need some serious adjustment on aggro in those regards. I am not advocating a trinity, but something needs to give here and there needs to be some bosses without adds. It is not very epic to have the number one danger in the boss fights be the minions and not the big guy. That can work sometimes, but not all of the time.
Some but not all. There has been an increase in that through the various beta weekends, so maybe they all will be some day. For now it has two issues.
1) I am not even sure how many are supposed to, because my voice overs randomly turn off and on. And no I am not hitting any keys to do that or mouse clicks.
2) The Foundry content will be a long ways off in this regard, if it ever happens.
The quests are more story based than WoW but not so much that they feel much different. The story line behind them is much better, if you read it or listen to the voice over you know why you are fetching 10 crates of supplies or pulling arrows from the dead. But you do still have those types of quests and sometimes they get a big ambiguous.
The foundry content on the other hand can be quite different. Of particular note is the Dweomerkeeper Series by Zebular. I have not had the chance to test more than 3-4 of them but I can say that even when one did not knock it out of the park for me, I left comments as to what I did not like, and next beta weekend much was improved in the quest. So there is some real potential here. Unfortunately this content is mostly solo at the moment and it is going to be down the road for it to be group based.
I don't mind if my character can't speak. As long as there is a dialect speech I'm happy. With speech included, devs can create dialect animations and create a more detailed and profound experience for all players.
Ohhh I see what you mean now. Hmm well there is different voice actors. But I am not sure if there is any sort of actual dialects or languages like in SWTOR. I honestly did not pay that close of attention!
Dude, considering how npcs look and act during conversations, I think dialects would be something totally out of this world for Cryptic.
You should be, because as long as the system uses any variant of HP, a trinity is inevitable. Trying to avoid it just makes the game frustrating and elevates DPS to dominance, because Healing and Tanking extend fights, and DPS ends them.
I am fine with the 4 roles that are predefined of Defender, Leader, Controller, Striker, along with some hybrid builds that are some elements of some of them. 3 roles is pretty boring and after 10 yeas of MMO games with it, I am ready for some change, even if it just takes the same principles and makes it more complex and dynamic.
No trinity --> <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> proof pve with no sense of accomplishment, along the lines of WoW's LFR raids.
A pen and paper RPG of necessity works differently than a video game. Dungeon Masters actively work to make the game more fun by directing the NPC traffic to appropriate places, fudge rolls, etc. to make things more fun, but a computer can't detect "fun".
Any action you take in an HP-based game accomplishes one or a combination of the following:
Remove HP
Add HP
Prevent removal of HP
If you make a hybrid more effective at a combination of two of these than two individuals would be, you wind up with nobody taking anything BUT that hybrid. If you make it hard to excel in any one of these, then everybody concentrates on DPS because it's the only way to make up for the lack.
DPS removes HP. Healers add HP. Tanks prevent removal of HP.
Controllers are ranged Tanks; Leaders improve the ability of DPS to remove HP, and/or of Tanks to prevent removal of HP, and/or of Healers to add HP. If you make them more effective at performing one of those roles, then everybody will play Leaders, and if you make them less effective hardly anybody will.
What works with a DM doesn't necessarily work with an algorithm.
So far I've enjoyed the game a ton (got a key for bwe2 and then bought HoTN I was so enamoured with the forgotten realms setting). I've personally never played D&D so I can't offer any opinions in that light. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career of MMO playing. (couldn't resist the Taken reference; forgive me-- but I have played MMO's for the past 11 years starting with eq and DAoC and obtained pretty good lore knowledge from reading a ton of FR novels.).
That being said this is my overall input on the game.
1). First 20 levels are a bit too easy. I was concerned at first, but after making low 30s, I've come to the realization that the earlygame is like a set of stairs into a pool: it helps ease people into the water who wouldn't want to jump straight in, and the challenge ramps up to an acceptable level in the late 20s [on GWF anyhow].
2). The Zen prices are HIGH, but not inappropriatly so when one compared them to the amount of effort required in game to acquire those same t3 35-40$ items (a ton of hours). All this discussed I've got the impression that OP is a GoTN and thus doesn't need to worry as much about these ultra expensive items. In the case that you want to really push for endgame content I reccomend maybe splurging on a health stone as this huge potion supply will help you speed through the leveling process-- though I find it to be unnecessary if you are not trying for a breakneck leveling pace.
3). As for the game it is a pretty amazing setup. It far exceeds the quality of most of the f2p MMO's on the market and is more in line with a paid mmo standard (maybe not AAA, but on the way there). I'm looking at Archeage and wildstar as big competitors for the MMO market of this tier, though one would be foolish not to make mention of ESO [though I expect that to cater more for an AAA audience). and I'm of the opinion that this game has much better lore (though maybe not gameplay) over either of those, which really helps to addict the player.
4). FOUNDRY!, FOUNDRY!, FOUNDRY!-- I think this is the feature that will make this game when considered in combination with the extensive depth of lore and the potential market of many DM's from D&D. Last beta weekend I played "i AM SLAYER" or something of the sort and it exceeded my expectations for community driven work. After that I checked out some videos and was astounded at the depth of detail you can customize. I'm really looking forward to my first foundry mission that I create.
While I still hold some reservations as I have not tried the Endgame, mention of "Gauntlgrym" fills me of nostalgia for a Dark Age of Camelot PVP/PVE dungeon named "Darkness Falls" that was awesome. Hopefully this game ends up as limitless in potential as it seems, and I don't think I will regret my 200$ expenditure.
That's my tidbit; excuse the wall of text and any grammar errors I beg of you- typed this on my phone between patients at work.
I think you misunderstand the roles. First of all four roles have always existed. In EQ the trinity was 3 specific classes, not even roles.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1154292-The-Real-MMO-Holy-Trinity
There has always been the Tank, Healer, Controller, and DPS. EQ emphasized Control more than DPS, WoW emphasized DPS more than Control. All DnD 4e does is break down the roles more specifically. Both Controller and Striker are DPS but they have a different emphasis. One is AoE damage and control and the other is single target damage and mobility.
All of these fit well into the so called trinity model, all NWO does is stay true to the DnD 4E roles that balance a controller with a striker and spread the roles across two classes rather than focusing on just one aspect of them for the entire game.
Don't you worry and fret, there is a trinity of sorts in Neverwinter, and it always will be there. But is not going to be like WoW, or EQ. It is going to be its own thing. As players get to end game it will be emphasized more and companions will be less and less able to compensate for a missing role in the group dynamic. Eventually when raids come to be, down the road a long time from now this will be reinforced even more than it is now. They can flex the trinity model, but I highly doubt they want to break it.