l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
^^
People need to stop focusing on the line 'they had more gold', as that wasn't main point he was trying to make. The point was that clerics in BW2 did not need to pot .. like ever. This did not match their entire healing structure for the game.
What other game do you get a 100% return heal for every single targeted heal spell. That and they incorporated heals into DPS powers. Some baked in, others via Divinity.
Enough QQ until May people lol. Then if you are still having issues, post in the class forum and someone will help you. If from there the community decides something is boned, we will get the devs attention. Far too many Chicken Littles flying around the main pages.
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited April 2013
Sorry to break it to you all but cleric is not a healer, there is no healer in this game, everyone restores health through potions and clerics heals are not meant to be competetive with the damage output of enemies and players, and only work to top peoples health off against non dangerous trivial encounters
They nerfed clerics self healing, which was its only defense and doesnt have enough offense to make up for it, where is clerics compensation for the 50% nerfs to its healing on himself?
People will start hitting the later levels and see how lackluster it is. Eventually, Cryptic will have to do something to make this class viable at higher levels, because currently, I'm not seeing it. I can control with a CW, and reduce damage incoming to the group far more effectively than the cleric can either heal or debuff. The GWF can keep more control on the battlefield with debuffs and AoE damage, lowering damage incoming quite a bit.
The cleric is a red-headed step child with sub-par DPS, healing that isn't really needed and doesn't mitigate damage he's receiving very well, and his debuffs can be easily replaced (save for one daily, but it's not even in the irreplaceable level of awesome).
I have no doubt it will get fixed. Meanwhile, level one to about 30-35, and have him ready to go after that. Best advice I can offer.
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dentzauMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited April 2013
I mean, this MMO might not fit the typical archtype. It is based off of D&D, a game which I have played with minimal heals many times. There are potions, scrolls of healing and your typical resting. I wouldn't be upset if the game followed that line as well. That being said, D&D clerics have awesome control or damage, so they need to address that too.
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polymaticMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited April 2013
Clerics in this game remind me of the gobbo shamans from Warhammer Online. A high focus on damage dealing to produce healing. Although I'm willing to bet single-target friendly heals are fricking annoying to line up.
People will start hitting the later levels and see how lackluster it is. Eventually, Cryptic will have to do something to make this class viable at higher levels, because currently, I'm not seeing it. I can control with a CW, and reduce damage incoming to the group far more effectively than the cleric can either heal or debuff. The GWF can keep more control on the battlefield with debuffs and AoE damage, lowering damage incoming quite a bit.
The cleric is a red-headed step child with sub-par DPS, healing that isn't really needed and doesn't mitigate damage he's receiving very well, and his debuffs can be easily replaced (save for one daily, but it's not even in the irreplaceable level of awesome).
I have no doubt it will get fixed. Meanwhile, level one to about 30-35, and have him ready to go after that. Best advice I can offer.
I really don't understand the complaints about clerics. I haven't played other professions but I don't feel weak when soloing and I bring a substantial amount of utility to groups.
I love the cleric. You really have to get the old 'sit there eyes focused on Health bar and hit button 1 or 2 or 3 for heals' out of your head. They are a fantastic active and very busy class. Mark up targets with your Healing debuff and attack with other at-will and encounter power to build your DIVINITY and ACTION POINTS. If you notice a team mate in trouble with health, switch to Divine and knock enemies away from them, then whack the Divinity encounter HoT, then the Direct at-will divinity heal on them. Move away, tab out of divinity if not out already, then damage and debuff again...your action point and divinity fill very quickly.
It is a fantastic action oriented support class. It is important also for your team mates to use their health pots and not mind numbingly rely on massive heals coming their way. While we are there, and doing all we can, everyone has to be aware healbots are non existant in this action oriented MMO.
I was planning on rolling a Cleric as my main because I love to heal in MMO's and really wanted this cleric to be a fun healing class. Nothing is more satisfying to a healer than saving someone from certain death with a crit heal that darn near tops them off. We like filling those bars but potions do that now unfortunately.
I just don't feel like the heals coming from the Cleric at this point, nor it's dps are even worth having in a group and that's sad. I really would like to see it's group heals buffed and dps kicked up a notch. Like others have said, It's more beneficial to bring a fifth dps class than a cleric in dungeon runs as it stands.
I never played the D.Cleric, because I'm waiting for the B.Cleric (closer to what I'm accustomed to with 3e Clerics). I can only provide my perspective as an "other".
Clerics seemed pretty functional and I certainly noticed their contribution to the team. While there are no huge heal spikes coming from this class, they do provide a lot of help to the team when the player knows how to use them. There was a very obvious difference between a decently played Cleric and a ****ty one, from the perspective of one being healed. Even without any huge heal spikes, in boss battles, I never had to use potions unless I was hit by two consecutive big hits when in the company of a mindful Cleric. I am a big fan of this kind of healing because, as a long-term MMO healer who is good at what he does, when i'm with a team, failure was very rare, regardless of the quality of tanks/DPS in the party. In SWTOR, for example, healers can carry a comparatively ****ty team to victory in almost any situation. I hated that.... It makes the game, particularly PVP, extremely tedious. Then healers complain endlessly about being focus-fired, as if the opposition's DPS have a choice in the matter. The fact that Clerics are more DPS orriented is an interesting departure from the boring norm.
On this point, I noticed D.Clerics ranking pretty high on DPS charts.
Perhaps some of the complaints about the way this class plays is based on inherent comparisons to the MMO standard, where healers can provide spikey heals that bring back tanks from the brink of death to 100%?
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eternalightMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited April 2013
I reached level 31 with a devoted cleric by the end of CB, and I didn't really have much to complain about (besides the fact that I was still pulling aggro like crazy in BW4). I had healing word and healer's lore maxed out and I was healing people for a total of about 1500 per heal, not including divinity. Using Sun Blast, healing word and astral seal as healing, I was able to keep my party very healthy. Even though the cleric's healing is gradual, it's still significant. The damage in this game isn't spiky (at least not as far as I've played), so the way the cleric's heals are at right now seem appropriate.
I also tried using a more offensive build later with chains, forgemaster's flame, and searing light, hoping that the heal from astral seal and the divine version of forgemaster's flame's heal would suffice, because I thought that maybe my healing was just a waste of an encounter slot. To my surprise, I noticed my party members' health bars dropping a lot quicker and they started having to resort to potions.
Overall, I think the cleric is a pretty versatile class with a decent amount of options to build offensively or supportive. And even though I took the latter path, I was able to keep my DPS pretty high.
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lordvargar111Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 33Arc User
edited April 2013
The Cleric in AD&D uses a MACE not a holy symbol!!!!!! Dungeons and dragons online Eberon is sadly the only game to date to get clerics right! and where the Hell was TURN UNDEAD AT?!
I'm curious what the OP thought of the DC post-4th BWE. I was having a blast this weekend, and now DC has moved to the top of my list for launch.
I am the original poster, heya!
I think BWE4 was great. I got up to level 42 (not 50), but did not have a chance to do dungeons so I have nothing to say about dungeons and fighting with other people. The stupid que thing glitched on me and put me into completed dungeons or didn't let me enter. SIGH.
Solo cleric was a blast this weekend. I also saw a great improvement by using a tank companion instead of the completely useless wizard (who, again, was still surviving better than me in BWE3 lmao). The heals are good, I used pots when I pulled too much. I am behind in levels because there were fewer quests when I originally leveled so I am constantly fighting mobs 1-3 levels above me. They were NOT a huge problem this weekend... careful fighting meant no pots, getting in over my head meant some potting.
I did pull aggro from my tank, less so with sooth on than without it, but not a huge difference. But then again I think I was pulling from having damage on the boss than heals! I have to learn more about this combat advantage thing, I have no clue what it means lol.
All in all I think they did a good job. I focused on crits, as much as I could considering I focused on WIS (and CHA second then STR)... most of my gear was aimed towards crits and feats/powers to take advantage of crits providing secondary effects. I'm sure I could have used less pots if I focused a little harder on all defense/regen stats than crits, but quicker kills feels great.
The new point system is slightly disappointing. I think we should be able to respec using gold considering:
1. When you level, you need to put points into things you are using leveling but which you may never touch later on (prime example: lance! or guardian of faith) - Would be nice to reuse those points without having to spend AD or zen (I cannot remember if I had to spend astral diamonds or zen, but I know it wasn't gold)
2. If you are new, you want to experiment with abilities... meaning you might put points in everything simply to discover you do not find an ability useful or fitting with your style. - Again, the current system kind of punishes experimentation.
I never played the D.Cleric, because I'm waiting for the B.Cleric (closer to what I'm accustomed to with 3e Clerics). I can only provide my perspective as an "other".
Clerics seemed pretty functional and I certainly noticed their contribution to the team. While there are no huge heal spikes coming from this class, they do provide a lot of help to the team when the player knows how to use them. There was a very obvious difference between a decently played Cleric and a ****ty one, from the perspective of one being healed. Even without any huge heal spikes, in boss battles, I never had to use potions unless I was hit by two consecutive big hits when in the company of a mindful Cleric. I am a big fan of this kind of healing because, as a long-term MMO healer who is good at what he does, when i'm with a team, failure was very rare, regardless of the quality of tanks/DPS in the party. In SWTOR, for example, healers can carry a comparatively ****ty team to victory in almost any situation. I hated that.... It makes the game, particularly PVP, extremely tedious. Then healers complain endlessly about being focus-fired, as if the opposition's DPS have a choice in the matter. The fact that Clerics are more DPS orriented is an interesting departure from the boring norm.
On this point, I noticed D.Clerics ranking pretty high on DPS charts.
Perhaps some of the complaints about the way this class plays is based on inherent comparisons to the MMO standard, where healers can provide spikey heals that bring back tanks from the brink of death to 100%?
My priest in Tera can carry ****ty teams except in the two top dungeons in hard-mode. My FvS can also similarly carry the stupid in most content outside elite. It's not a bad thing.
A cleric can use their DPS and debuffs to return health to players. I find that mechanic very interesting and fulfilling. My cleric is focused on DPS with healing coming from debuffs and crits. I have only partied for an entire dungeon with another cleric in party (how lucky) who was FAR more heal oriented than me... so I don't know if anyone would cry with me as the only cleric. I would hope not :P.
I reached level 31 with a devoted cleric by the end of CB, and I didn't really have much to complain about (besides the fact that I was still pulling aggro like crazy in BW4). I had healing word and healer's lore maxed out and I was healing people for a total of about 1500 per heal, not including divinity. Using Sun Blast, healing word and astral seal as healing, I was able to keep my party very healthy. Even though the cleric's healing is gradual, it's still significant. The damage in this game isn't spiky (at least not as far as I've played), so the way the cleric's heals are at right now seem appropriate.
I also tried using a more offensive build later with chains, forgemaster's flame, and searing light, hoping that the heal from astral seal and the divine version of forgemaster's flame's heal would suffice, because I thought that maybe my healing was just a waste of an encounter slot. To my surprise, I noticed my party members' health bars dropping a lot quicker and they started having to resort to potions.
Overall, I think the cleric is a pretty versatile class with a decent amount of options to build offensively or supportive. And even though I took the latter path, I was able to keep my DPS pretty high.
I focused on dps in gear and crit (with feats focused around taking advantage of crits)... but we have the ability to make our DPS moves help with defense and healing. I still chose to keep sun blast and astral seal... it just feels as a safer route.
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sarsparilla1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited April 2013
I think they nerfed self heal a bit too much between betas.
I love the cleric. You really have to get the old 'sit there eyes focused on Health bar and hit button 1 or 2 or 3 for heals' out of your head. They are a fantastic active and very busy class. Mark up targets with your Healing debuff and attack with other at-will and encounter power to build your DIVINITY and ACTION POINTS. If you notice a team mate in trouble with health, switch to Divine and knock enemies away from them, then whack the Divinity encounter HoT, then the Direct at-will divinity heal on them. Move away, tab out of divinity if not out already, then damage and debuff again...your action point and divinity fill very quickly.
It is a fantastic action oriented support class. It is important also for your team mates to use their health pots and not mind numbingly rely on massive heals coming their way. While we are there, and doing all we can, everyone has to be aware healbots are non existant in this action oriented MMO.
Let me just say that if you think you know healers in MMOs and all healers do is hit 1, 2, 3 then you're mistaken. There is positioning, strategy and thought involved. Specially in higher dungeon raids, etc. I do not understand why people think healers are boring until I realized, they haven't been where I have. It's not just watching bars, it's paying attention to the party/raid and being a bad *** healer that keeps a group of wimpy mages and rogues alive so they can do what they do best - dps.
Cleric is my opinion is NOT a dps class. In this game it is a little short to be considered a healer either. I think with a fix on Bastion of Health, upping the healing capability, we'll be in big business. Just slight tweak to that healing spell I believe will make it ultra-viable and not expandable class. BW4 was definitely better with agro and grouping at least with cleric. It is an action oriented thinking class and I agree. However,
if you have Zen, a cleric right now can be replaced by mass healing items that does group complete heals.
I'm all for people who want to play clerics who wanna-be-wizards. I want a HEALER who can actually keep a whole group up in a hard dungeon quest using tools given with skills. Right now, I think I figured out the kind of skill needed for this game for a cleric, I just think the healing tool given is not quite there still.
Let me just say that if you think you know healers in MMOs and all healers do is hit 1, 2, 3 then you're mistaken. There is positioning, strategy and thought involved. Specially in higher dungeon raids, etc. I do not understand why people think healers are boring until I realized, they haven't been where I have. It's not just watching bars, it's paying attention to the party/raid and being a bad *** healer that keeps a group of wimpy mages and rogues alive so they can do what they do best - dps.
I don't agree with the way you phrased that but without you specifying a game, class, spec, and raid/group composition I can't say if I agree with you or not. I've been a main healer and an off-healer in a lot of games and in some cases it really is nothing more than watching green bars and occasionally side-stepping out of a red circle, like druid healing in Vanilla WoW. There's a reason why there were programs that literally played the healer for you, AKA "Heal Bots". Other times I did things like off-healing/AoE healing 10+ man content as an inquisitor/justicar in Rift (or main healing dungeon runs as the same) and it was a LOT more complicated, whereas a sentinel/purifier spec was boring green-bar-whack-a-mole. The Rune Keeper in LOTRO was also a really interesting healer especially if I wanted to pepper in some DPS.
I do agree with your assessment of Bastion of Health though. I'd say increasing it's power by 50%-100% and maybe shave 2-3 seconds off it's base CD would go a long way to helping the cleric actually heal and earn it a place on my bar.
Cleric needs NO buff to heals... you are not even grasping the style and meaning behind how this cleric this healer/dps/cc is to be played. they purposely are not wanting at all a healer that can HEAL a whole team np like in wow.( since you compared it to that) This is a new way for healing . it works great as intended.your biggest mistake it even thinking to compare it to anything else in the past. My main has been DC in beta and it will be so at OB. tested to 50th and the cleric is near perfect right now. needs nothing.
I love the cleric. You really have to get the old 'sit there eyes focused on Health bar and hit button 1 or 2 or 3 for heals' out of your head. They are a fantastic active and very busy class. Mark up targets with your Healing debuff and attack with other at-will and encounter power to build your DIVINITY and ACTION POINTS. If you notice a team mate in trouble with health, switch to Divine and knock enemies away from them, then whack the Divinity encounter HoT, then the Direct at-will divinity heal on them. Move away, tab out of divinity if not out already, then damage and debuff again...your action point and divinity fill very quickly.
It is a fantastic action oriented support class. It is important also for your team mates to use their health pots and not mind numbingly rely on massive heals coming their way. While we are there, and doing all we can, everyone has to be aware healbots are non existant in this action oriented MMO.
Sounds like you played exactly like I play it. I like you sir.
I love the cleric. You really have to get the old 'sit there eyes focused on Health bar and hit button 1 or 2 or 3 for heals' out of your head. They are a fantastic active and very busy class. Mark up targets with your Healing debuff and attack with other at-will and encounter power to build your DIVINITY and ACTION POINTS. If you notice a team mate in trouble with health, switch to Divine and knock enemies away from them, then whack the Divinity encounter HoT, then the Direct at-will divinity heal on them. Move away, tab out of divinity if not out already, then damage and debuff again...your action point and divinity fill very quickly.
It is a fantastic action oriented support class. It is important also for your team mates to use their health pots and not mind numbingly rely on massive heals coming their way. While we are there, and doing all we can, everyone has to be aware healbots are non existant in this action oriented MMO.
Thank you guys..at the moment in my opinion, people are thinking of a cleric from almost every old and present MMO. With Neverwinter, they are not. If clerics in DnD pnp were meant to be healers and healers only, why would a huge array of offensive powers be available to them, from 1st edition all the way to current 4th edition? They had and have currently, Hold spells, Charm spells, buffing spells, out of combat spells, Commune spells, Illusion spells, Attack spells and lastly Healing Spells. Hence, why for 4th edition Clerics were labelled as a Leader role in my opinion. To a party, they are invaluable in their abilities for a huge range of situations. So therefore, also in my opinion, this is the reason Clerics are as they are in Neverwinter. They are Buffers(their Daily), they can crowd control, they use their attacks and heals(if feated) to improve their divinity. The more Divinity the cleric has, the more divine power a cleric is filled with, the more efficient the clerics spells will be.
I think the mechanic for Neverwinter has been done really well. Once again, just my opinion, but I really like it!
P.s @eggsn I have played Healers in every MMO since Vanilla wow. 90% of them are nothing more then watch the party or raids health bars, see them lose health and spam your Heals. Sure Boss strats called for you to move 'out of the Fire', but that is a Boss mechanic, not a class mechanic. Dont get me wrong I loved being that class, I am just very happy with the Neverwinter cleric mechanics.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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greenlee30Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited April 2013
Someone asked earlier what was the point of the neverwinter Cleric there isn't one....they can't heal they can't dps and they can't stay alive. I also love the cleric class but not on this game and it will probably make me not play it on release. I keep logging onto to the tests hoping that all of sudden they have fixed the clerics but instead they are making them worse. I was looking so forward to this game and I am greatly disappointed.
What can I say? If you don't like the clerics in this game, you can always play another class if you like the game itself. I for one like my cleric and will stick with it as my class of choice.
I personally do not find cleric a huge difference but I've played DDO for a while with a DPS/healing spec-ed FvS and cleric that I switched around between more AOE or more melee dps or more ranged DPS and increased or decreased amount of healing ability.
I also played a guardian in GW2 who had staff to swap to in group content for some quick heals and barrier CC abilities.
I love the combination of dps/CC/healing that DC brings. I think that the amount of debuffs, buffs and healing we bring is great in a group. Also, not to step on anyone's toes, but we have the most spammable nice AOEs. They might do less than a wizard but there are more of them and they do a lot more for the party than a wizard scattering all adds to the high heavens. I can AOE dmg and heal, I can AOE dmg and buff, I can buff, I can AOE dmg and give temp HP, I can debuff to lower defense, to give HP back, etc.
At the same time, the cleric is not needed. For those that play tank or healer in other games to be needed, this will be a hard blow.
You can play smart and drink pots or use a companion and not NEED a cleric.
I see this as a positive. I have died more in GW2 than EVERY other game in existence. And you know what, we laughed about it. I laughed about it.
Now if I go die in DDO on my FvS in a raid... I do not laugh. They do not laugh. They all sit around worrying and trying to get me back alive. Everyone tries to spec a bit to be able to raise because if your healer is down... oh brother! You can carry but you can also wipe the party in raids and in elite quests where not everyone is solo-oriented.
Similarly in Tera, but at least I have a self-raise in Tera... Tera is very fun healing because you're always moving, healing is distance from you or cursor targetting people (and if they move out of range, you cannot heal, if they dodge, they miss the heal etc). But again, your healer is dead and you cannot raise them? You will wipe unless you HEAVILY outgear the dungeon.
People who play healbots do not like games that de-emphasize the holy trinity and healing. I LOVE it. I don't feel required, I don't feel like if I want to go help friends the best choice is to bring a healer... I don't feel like I'm carrying... I don't feel like I'm to blame...
I can just have fun.
I dig it.
Also... to hell with any game where healers have zip for DPS. Tired of spending 3 minutes on a monster when my melee DPS kills it in one hit. GRRRRRRRR (I only play Tera because it's awesome combat. Otherwise it is totally WOW trinity and I hate WOW raiding very hard)
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shadhhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Smiteclerics from vanilla DAoC anyone ?
I look forward to finally playing a healer class that's coming close to what i remember from PnP.
This healer can be a fantastic char to play and finally will maybe get a few more people like me to play a healer, cause honestly watching green bars is not really that exciting.
don't get me wrong , i respect good healers in other mmo's who do their job right but i could just never play one as i didn't like the way the classes worked.
In this game i have the feeling i will enjoy playing that healer.
Someone asked earlier what was the point of the neverwinter Cleric there isn't one....they can't heal they can't dps and they can't stay alive. I also love the cleric class but not on this game and it will probably make me not play it on release. I keep logging onto to the tests hoping that all of sudden they have fixed the clerics but instead they are making them worse. I was looking so forward to this game and I am greatly disappointed.
I do not see the problem at all. I had no issues soloing in BWE2 and 4. I had a plethora of AOE options. There's a couple of abilities I've seen others use that I'd still love to play around with instead of my "safe" options (aka HW). I also enjoyed more playing with a companion on DC because it was just like playing with a tank... have fun positioning, letting him grab, keeping him alive, debuffing/DOT-ing bosses, AOE-ing minions/adds... etc.
The class is FUN. Why does it need to do max anything?
Do I think we need this stupid healing nerf even at 40%? No. It's stupid. But does it break the class like the 75% glitched nerf did in BWE3? Nope.
If cleric is not for you, it's not for you. I find it a lot more fulfilling keeping debuffs and preventative measures up than just healing people through everything. In Tera healing is even more combat oriented but I seriously can heal idiots through face-tanking stuff... it gets snooze-fest like.
They can heal. Preventative heal and debuffs and buffs are way more fun than spamming the same full heal ability of CD.
They can DPS. I had no issues and in a dungeon with another cleric, 2 CWs and 1 rogue, I topped the DPS charts. Bite me! :P The other cleric outhealed me tho haha.
They can solo. In BWE4 I had zero issues solo-ing with my tank companion. First off, tank was better choice of companion than CW (what was I thinking)... Second off with healing only at 40% I had fewer problems other than when a huge amount of adds spawned and surrounded me (pots yay).
Are they best DPS? No. Who cares?
Are they best healers? Ahmmmm, yes, lol. Tho some abilities of other classes give temp hp or some heals, they are not as consistant/abundant as using Sun Burst, Astral Seal.
Are they the best buffers? Yes. The daily is epic to say the least, some of the paragon feats are downright delicious... choose to increase party DPS or party defense... plenty of options!
Are they the best solo-ers? Probably not, but also depends on your style.
Comments
People need to stop focusing on the line 'they had more gold', as that wasn't main point he was trying to make. The point was that clerics in BW2 did not need to pot .. like ever. This did not match their entire healing structure for the game.
What other game do you get a 100% return heal for every single targeted heal spell. That and they incorporated heals into DPS powers. Some baked in, others via Divinity.
Enough QQ until May people lol. Then if you are still having issues, post in the class forum and someone will help you. If from there the community decides something is boned, we will get the devs attention. Far too many Chicken Littles flying around the main pages.
They nerfed clerics self healing, which was its only defense and doesnt have enough offense to make up for it, where is clerics compensation for the 50% nerfs to its healing on himself?
People will start hitting the later levels and see how lackluster it is. Eventually, Cryptic will have to do something to make this class viable at higher levels, because currently, I'm not seeing it. I can control with a CW, and reduce damage incoming to the group far more effectively than the cleric can either heal or debuff. The GWF can keep more control on the battlefield with debuffs and AoE damage, lowering damage incoming quite a bit.
The cleric is a red-headed step child with sub-par DPS, healing that isn't really needed and doesn't mitigate damage he's receiving very well, and his debuffs can be easily replaced (save for one daily, but it's not even in the irreplaceable level of awesome).
I have no doubt it will get fixed. Meanwhile, level one to about 30-35, and have him ready to go after that. Best advice I can offer.
I really don't understand the complaints about clerics. I haven't played other professions but I don't feel weak when soloing and I bring a substantial amount of utility to groups.
Rather than argue about it I just made a video of me soloing a quest on my 41 cleric. Even if you still disagree with me having data to point at can only help the discussion.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?130161-Level-41-Cleric-solo-questing-video
It is a fantastic action oriented support class. It is important also for your team mates to use their health pots and not mind numbingly rely on massive heals coming their way. While we are there, and doing all we can, everyone has to be aware healbots are non existant in this action oriented MMO.
I just don't feel like the heals coming from the Cleric at this point, nor it's dps are even worth having in a group and that's sad. I really would like to see it's group heals buffed and dps kicked up a notch. Like others have said, It's more beneficial to bring a fifth dps class than a cleric in dungeon runs as it stands.
Clerics seemed pretty functional and I certainly noticed their contribution to the team. While there are no huge heal spikes coming from this class, they do provide a lot of help to the team when the player knows how to use them. There was a very obvious difference between a decently played Cleric and a ****ty one, from the perspective of one being healed. Even without any huge heal spikes, in boss battles, I never had to use potions unless I was hit by two consecutive big hits when in the company of a mindful Cleric. I am a big fan of this kind of healing because, as a long-term MMO healer who is good at what he does, when i'm with a team, failure was very rare, regardless of the quality of tanks/DPS in the party. In SWTOR, for example, healers can carry a comparatively ****ty team to victory in almost any situation. I hated that.... It makes the game, particularly PVP, extremely tedious. Then healers complain endlessly about being focus-fired, as if the opposition's DPS have a choice in the matter. The fact that Clerics are more DPS orriented is an interesting departure from the boring norm.
On this point, I noticed D.Clerics ranking pretty high on DPS charts.
Perhaps some of the complaints about the way this class plays is based on inherent comparisons to the MMO standard, where healers can provide spikey heals that bring back tanks from the brink of death to 100%?
I also tried using a more offensive build later with chains, forgemaster's flame, and searing light, hoping that the heal from astral seal and the divine version of forgemaster's flame's heal would suffice, because I thought that maybe my healing was just a waste of an encounter slot. To my surprise, I noticed my party members' health bars dropping a lot quicker and they started having to resort to potions.
Overall, I think the cleric is a pretty versatile class with a decent amount of options to build offensively or supportive. And even though I took the latter path, I was able to keep my DPS pretty high.
I am the original poster, heya!
I think BWE4 was great. I got up to level 42 (not 50), but did not have a chance to do dungeons so I have nothing to say about dungeons and fighting with other people. The stupid que thing glitched on me and put me into completed dungeons or didn't let me enter. SIGH.
Solo cleric was a blast this weekend. I also saw a great improvement by using a tank companion instead of the completely useless wizard (who, again, was still surviving better than me in BWE3 lmao). The heals are good, I used pots when I pulled too much. I am behind in levels because there were fewer quests when I originally leveled so I am constantly fighting mobs 1-3 levels above me. They were NOT a huge problem this weekend... careful fighting meant no pots, getting in over my head meant some potting.
I did pull aggro from my tank, less so with sooth on than without it, but not a huge difference. But then again I think I was pulling from having damage on the boss than heals! I have to learn more about this combat advantage thing, I have no clue what it means lol.
All in all I think they did a good job. I focused on crits, as much as I could considering I focused on WIS (and CHA second then STR)... most of my gear was aimed towards crits and feats/powers to take advantage of crits providing secondary effects. I'm sure I could have used less pots if I focused a little harder on all defense/regen stats than crits, but quicker kills feels great.
The new point system is slightly disappointing. I think we should be able to respec using gold considering:
1. When you level, you need to put points into things you are using leveling but which you may never touch later on (prime example: lance! or guardian of faith) - Would be nice to reuse those points without having to spend AD or zen (I cannot remember if I had to spend astral diamonds or zen, but I know it wasn't gold)
2. If you are new, you want to experiment with abilities... meaning you might put points in everything simply to discover you do not find an ability useful or fitting with your style. - Again, the current system kind of punishes experimentation.
Good weekend other than stupid bugs!
My priest in Tera can carry ****ty teams except in the two top dungeons in hard-mode. My FvS can also similarly carry the stupid in most content outside elite. It's not a bad thing.
A cleric can use their DPS and debuffs to return health to players. I find that mechanic very interesting and fulfilling. My cleric is focused on DPS with healing coming from debuffs and crits. I have only partied for an entire dungeon with another cleric in party (how lucky) who was FAR more heal oriented than me... so I don't know if anyone would cry with me as the only cleric. I would hope not :P.
I focused on dps in gear and crit (with feats focused around taking advantage of crits)... but we have the ability to make our DPS moves help with defense and healing. I still chose to keep sun blast and astral seal... it just feels as a safer route.
Geez, I should just play wizard if I want to do that...
Let me just say that if you think you know healers in MMOs and all healers do is hit 1, 2, 3 then you're mistaken. There is positioning, strategy and thought involved. Specially in higher dungeon raids, etc. I do not understand why people think healers are boring until I realized, they haven't been where I have. It's not just watching bars, it's paying attention to the party/raid and being a bad *** healer that keeps a group of wimpy mages and rogues alive so they can do what they do best - dps.
Cleric is my opinion is NOT a dps class. In this game it is a little short to be considered a healer either. I think with a fix on Bastion of Health, upping the healing capability, we'll be in big business. Just slight tweak to that healing spell I believe will make it ultra-viable and not expandable class. BW4 was definitely better with agro and grouping at least with cleric. It is an action oriented thinking class and I agree. However,
if you have Zen, a cleric right now can be replaced by mass healing items that does group complete heals.
I'm all for people who want to play clerics who wanna-be-wizards. I want a HEALER who can actually keep a whole group up in a hard dungeon quest using tools given with skills. Right now, I think I figured out the kind of skill needed for this game for a cleric, I just think the healing tool given is not quite there still.
I don't agree with the way you phrased that but without you specifying a game, class, spec, and raid/group composition I can't say if I agree with you or not. I've been a main healer and an off-healer in a lot of games and in some cases it really is nothing more than watching green bars and occasionally side-stepping out of a red circle, like druid healing in Vanilla WoW. There's a reason why there were programs that literally played the healer for you, AKA "Heal Bots". Other times I did things like off-healing/AoE healing 10+ man content as an inquisitor/justicar in Rift (or main healing dungeon runs as the same) and it was a LOT more complicated, whereas a sentinel/purifier spec was boring green-bar-whack-a-mole. The Rune Keeper in LOTRO was also a really interesting healer especially if I wanted to pepper in some DPS.
I do agree with your assessment of Bastion of Health though. I'd say increasing it's power by 50%-100% and maybe shave 2-3 seconds off it's base CD would go a long way to helping the cleric actually heal and earn it a place on my bar.
Sounds like you played exactly like I play it. I like you sir.
hmmm... ^^^^ perfect.
I think the mechanic for Neverwinter has been done really well. Once again, just my opinion, but I really like it!
P.s @eggsn I have played Healers in every MMO since Vanilla wow. 90% of them are nothing more then watch the party or raids health bars, see them lose health and spam your Heals. Sure Boss strats called for you to move 'out of the Fire', but that is a Boss mechanic, not a class mechanic. Dont get me wrong I loved being that class, I am just very happy with the Neverwinter cleric mechanics.
I also played a guardian in GW2 who had staff to swap to in group content for some quick heals and barrier CC abilities.
I love the combination of dps/CC/healing that DC brings. I think that the amount of debuffs, buffs and healing we bring is great in a group. Also, not to step on anyone's toes, but we have the most spammable nice AOEs. They might do less than a wizard but there are more of them and they do a lot more for the party than a wizard scattering all adds to the high heavens. I can AOE dmg and heal, I can AOE dmg and buff, I can buff, I can AOE dmg and give temp HP, I can debuff to lower defense, to give HP back, etc.
At the same time, the cleric is not needed. For those that play tank or healer in other games to be needed, this will be a hard blow.
You can play smart and drink pots or use a companion and not NEED a cleric.
I see this as a positive. I have died more in GW2 than EVERY other game in existence. And you know what, we laughed about it. I laughed about it.
Now if I go die in DDO on my FvS in a raid... I do not laugh. They do not laugh. They all sit around worrying and trying to get me back alive. Everyone tries to spec a bit to be able to raise because if your healer is down... oh brother! You can carry but you can also wipe the party in raids and in elite quests where not everyone is solo-oriented.
Similarly in Tera, but at least I have a self-raise in Tera... Tera is very fun healing because you're always moving, healing is distance from you or cursor targetting people (and if they move out of range, you cannot heal, if they dodge, they miss the heal etc). But again, your healer is dead and you cannot raise them? You will wipe unless you HEAVILY outgear the dungeon.
People who play healbots do not like games that de-emphasize the holy trinity and healing. I LOVE it. I don't feel required, I don't feel like if I want to go help friends the best choice is to bring a healer... I don't feel like I'm carrying... I don't feel like I'm to blame...
I can just have fun.
I dig it.
Also... to hell with any game where healers have zip for DPS. Tired of spending 3 minutes on a monster when my melee DPS kills it in one hit. GRRRRRRRR (I only play Tera because it's awesome combat. Otherwise it is totally WOW trinity and I hate WOW raiding very hard)
I look forward to finally playing a healer class that's coming close to what i remember from PnP.
This healer can be a fantastic char to play and finally will maybe get a few more people like me to play a healer, cause honestly watching green bars is not really that exciting.
don't get me wrong , i respect good healers in other mmo's who do their job right but i could just never play one as i didn't like the way the classes worked.
In this game i have the feeling i will enjoy playing that healer.
I do not see the problem at all. I had no issues soloing in BWE2 and 4. I had a plethora of AOE options. There's a couple of abilities I've seen others use that I'd still love to play around with instead of my "safe" options (aka HW). I also enjoyed more playing with a companion on DC because it was just like playing with a tank... have fun positioning, letting him grab, keeping him alive, debuffing/DOT-ing bosses, AOE-ing minions/adds... etc.
The class is FUN. Why does it need to do max anything?
Do I think we need this stupid healing nerf even at 40%? No. It's stupid. But does it break the class like the 75% glitched nerf did in BWE3? Nope.
If cleric is not for you, it's not for you. I find it a lot more fulfilling keeping debuffs and preventative measures up than just healing people through everything. In Tera healing is even more combat oriented but I seriously can heal idiots through face-tanking stuff... it gets snooze-fest like.
They can heal. Preventative heal and debuffs and buffs are way more fun than spamming the same full heal ability of CD.
They can DPS. I had no issues and in a dungeon with another cleric, 2 CWs and 1 rogue, I topped the DPS charts. Bite me! :P The other cleric outhealed me tho haha.
They can solo. In BWE4 I had zero issues solo-ing with my tank companion. First off, tank was better choice of companion than CW (what was I thinking)... Second off with healing only at 40% I had fewer problems other than when a huge amount of adds spawned and surrounded me (pots yay).
Are they best DPS? No. Who cares?
Are they best healers? Ahmmmm, yes, lol. Tho some abilities of other classes give temp hp or some heals, they are not as consistant/abundant as using Sun Burst, Astral Seal.
Are they the best buffers? Yes. The daily is epic to say the least, some of the paragon feats are downright delicious... choose to increase party DPS or party defense... plenty of options!
Are they the best solo-ers? Probably not, but also depends on your style.