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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

No multiclass = No D&D

pwregsuckspwregsucks Member Posts: 17 Arc User
edited April 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
I'm not sure how much this has been brought up, but what in the world is going on here? How can anyone call this D&D?

Has anyone considered, you know, talking to people who play D&D before making a new game? I have a solid group of a dozen friends who were all kinds of excited when they heard about this game... until they found out that it's 4th edition, including no multiclassing.

Now, they're trying to get me back into their 3.6 PnP group... and with DDO turned into a WOW clone and this game going nowhere, unless I want to reinstall NWN2, I guess that's my only choice for D&D, huh?

I was really looking forward to this game ;(
Post edited by pwregsucks on
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Comments

  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited April 2013
    Rules =/= DnD.
  • ashkethashketh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 38
    edited April 2013
    As much as I appreciate the desire for a personal opinion to be fact, it sadly is not so. Whether you like 4 ed. or not, it is Dungeons and Dragons. I may personally choose to ignore every Superman movie after the Christopher Reeves/General Zod original. That does not mean every Superman movie since that one is not a Superman movie.

    Now that I have cleared that up, I am sorry to hear that you will not be joining us. But thank you for stopping by and speaking for you and your twelve friends. Hopefully both groups (yours and ours) will thoroughly enjoy a weekend spent playing our respective versions of D&D.
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Multiclassing is not the essence of D&D. Many, many DMs disallow multiclasssing.

    Although their license agreement with WotC allows them to draw from any edition, this game is heavily inspired by 4E D&D. The actual, official, real current version of the D&D game. 3E is not current, and Pathfinder is based on the OGL but is not actually D&D. Cryptic is largely adapting the current ruleset (with heavy modification). In 4E, multiclassing is done using feats in such a way as to be incompatible with Cryptic's feat point trees. However, 4E has something closer to traditional multiclassing in the PHB3. It's called Hybrid characters and it looks to me like the new power point and rank system just revealed makes Hybrid a little easier for them to implement if they choose to do so.

    And the DM deciding which rules to adapt, discard, or invent from whole cloth absolutely is the essence of D&D.
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  • enderlin50enderlin50 Member Posts: 993 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    silvergryph wrote: »
    Multiclassing is not the essence of D&D. Many, many DMs disallow multiclasssing.

    Although their license agreement with WotC allows them to draw from any edition, this game is heavily inspired by 4E D&D. The actual, official, real current version of the D&D game. 3E is not current, and Pathfinder is based on the OGL but is not actually D&D. Cryptic is largely adapting the current ruleset (with heavy modification). In 4E, multiclassing is done using feats in such a way as to be incompatible with Cryptic's feat point trees. However, 4E has something closer to traditional multiclassing in the PHB3. It's called Hybrid characters and it looks to me like the new power point and rank system just revealed makes Hybrid a little easier for them to implement if they choose to do so.

    And the DM deciding which rules to adapt, discard, or invent from whole cloth absolutely is the essence of D&D.

    DM Owned, BOOM <makes bomb motion with hand>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    pwregsucks wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much this has been brought up, but what in the world is going on here? How can anyone call this D&D?

    Yes, apparently your only other posts in this forum have brought it up. Not sure anyone cared then, don't see why we'd care now.

    There's always the opportunity for multiclassing to be added, but right now I think Cryptic's main concern is adding more classes to multiclass to :)

    Anyway, sorry you and your friends are going to skip Neverwinter...I mean, why even bother giving it a try for yourself. Even though when it launches on the 30th, it's totally free, you already have a PWE account and all you have to do is download the game, that sounds like a lot of work in order to form your OWN opinion of the ACTUAL game....
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • njgreen123456njgreen123456 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 97
    edited April 2013
    While Multiclassing is a really neat idea, it just honestly doesn't work in an MMO sense... The sense of Balance can be totally lost with the idea of Multiclassing. Even in the Table top version of DnD multiclassing always made the game a bit unbalanced to totally broken when you have people who know what they are doing. In my personal DM experiences I always limited this concept for my players. Also in 4e, which this game is based off of, the multiclassing isn't really how 3.5e had it... its more like feating in aspects of other classes. The closest thing would be a Hybrid character... which again basically break the game, if you know what you are doing within the game rules. I personally would hate to see hybrid brought into this game... could you imagine the nightmare of trying to play PVP and someone is like a GWF/Cleric multiclass feated with Wizard for control powers... You'd have an AOE stomping/healing/lock down character that would be unkillable.
  • quorforgedquorforged Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Apparently the game that Gary Gygax published in 1974, that said "Dungeons & Dragons" on the cover, as well as its line of direct successors, aren't D&D.

    Also, AD&D and 2E, whose multiclassing are much like 4E's hybrid multiclassing (that I guess doesn't count for some reason), aren't D&D either.

    Apparently 3E is the only D&D. Go figure.
  • ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited April 2013
    njgreen123456 wrote: »
    Even in the Table top version of DnD multiclassing always made the game a bit unbalanced to totally broken when you have people who know what they are doing.

    I do kind of miss my human 2rogue/2ranger/Xbarb who dual wielded, rage/sneak attack, disabled and jumped through traps.

    But yeah, 3e was basically an experiment in rules exploitation. 4e was a big step forward.
  • pwregsuckspwregsucks Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    silvergryph wrote: »
    Multiclassing is not the essence of D&D. Many, many DMs disallow multiclasssing.

    And the DM deciding which rules to adapt, discard, or invent from whole cloth absolutely is the essence of D&D.

    As is the entire group standing up, tearing up their character sheets, and walking out of the room. In fact, I think that I've seen both of those events happen roughly the same number of times.

    Speaking of...
  • argantisargantis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    When asked in an interview about hybrid classing Cryptic responded that it is not in, yet. It might be interesting for min / maxers down the line, but right now they have much more important things to work out in the game mechanics. Once the foundation is set they can address this, something like 2-5 years from now :P
  • ashkethashketh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 38
    edited April 2013
    pwregsucks wrote: »
    As is the entire group standing up, tearing up their character sheets, and walking out of the room. In fact, I think that I've seen both of those events happen roughly the same number of times.

    Speaking of...

    If your entire group has walked out on every DM that did not allow multi-classing, then I think it's safe to say that a number of folks will be happy that you aren't joining us in Neverwinter. We get enough whining on the forums as it is.
  • goodoloakgoodoloak Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ashketh wrote: »
    As much as I appreciate the desire for a personal opinion to be fact, it sadly is not so. Whether you like 4 ed. or not, it is Dungeons and Dragons. I may personally choose to ignore every Superman movie after the Christopher Reeves/General Zod original. That does not mean every Superman movie since that one is not a Superman movie.

    Now that I have cleared that up, I am sorry to hear that you will not be joining us. But thank you for stopping by and speaking for you and your twelve friends. Hopefully both groups (yours and ours) will thoroughly enjoy a weekend spent playing our respective versions of D&D.

    well said. Thank you for your very solid and pleasant response. If only more posters were of this ilk.
  • fullmetalpopefullmetalpope Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    pwregsucks wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much this has been brought up, but what in the world is going on here? How can anyone call this D&D?

    Has anyone considered, you know, talking to people who play D&D before making a new game? I have a solid group of a dozen friends who were all kinds of excited when they heard about this game... until they found out that it's 4th edition, including no multiclassing.

    Now, they're trying to get me back into their 3.6 PnP group... and with DDO turned into a WOW clone and this game going nowhere, unless I want to reinstall NWN2, I guess that's my only choice for D&D, huh?

    I was really looking forward to this game ;(

    I call Bullsh@t

    See ya, go ***** about the next game launching soon. Im sure you will be there doing it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vamperovampero Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    wrong quote
    http://gamingphanatic.com/
  • altyrealtyre Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 106 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    I never got all the hooblah about multiclassing - it was always nothing more than a massive headache in my book.

    Granted, I've never had experience with D&D multiclassing, but I suppose my opinion would remain the same.
  • kaerthuskaerthus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Multiclass for flavor is cool, unfortunately it tended to lend itself for exploitation. I have no idea how they plan to implement hybrid system considering how the game plays now.
  • zylaxxzylaxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 591 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    ashketh wrote: »
    As much as I appreciate the desire for a personal opinion to be fact, it sadly is not so. Whether you like 4 ed. or not, it is Dungeons and Dragons. I may personally choose to ignore every Superman movie after the Christopher Reeves/General Zod original. That does not mean every Superman movie since that one is not a Superman movie.

    Now that I have cleared that up, I am sorry to hear that you will not be joining us. But thank you for stopping by and speaking for you and your twelve friends. Hopefully both groups (yours and ours) will thoroughly enjoy a weekend spent playing our respective versions of D&D.

    Ignore him he has been trolling for a very long time now. Go read any of the blog posts on the front page and you'll find him trolling away in the comments section.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Character is what a man is in the dark
  • zylaxxzylaxx Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 591 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    I do kind of miss my human 2rogue/2ranger/Xbarb who dual wielded, rage/sneak attack, disabled and jumped through traps.

    But yeah, 3e was basically an experiment in rules exploitation. 4e was a big step forward.

    guess Im glad I got out of the pen & paper game back when it was called AD&D and the newest edition was 2.5 lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Character is what a man is in the dark
  • argantisargantis Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I remember back when multi-classing meant that you were likely an elf wizard fighter and you had to raise levels equally. Hmm was it Baldurs Gate that had that old 1st / 2nd edition where multi-classing actually sucked?
  • roninthehoodroninthehood Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 184 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    multi classing ....................... ok. cleric is dps , healing, and cc..... theres your multi classing done perfect. Just one example I could do it with everyclass.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

    Although I want to see multiclassing and hybrid make in the game, the OP post is kind of over the top.
  • loliamosloliamos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ashketh wrote: »
    As much as I appreciate the desire for a personal opinion to be fact, it sadly is not so. Whether you like 4 ed. or not, it is Dungeons and Dragons. I may personally choose to ignore every Superman movie after the Christopher Reeves/General Zod original. That does not mean every Superman movie since that one is not a Superman movie.

    Now that I have cleared that up, I am sorry to hear that you will not be joining us. But thank you for stopping by and speaking for you and your twelve friends. Hopefully both groups (yours and ours) will thoroughly enjoy a weekend spent playing our respective versions of D&D.

    nothing to add.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • derovarderovar Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Try the game out first before forming a negative opinion about it!!
  • pro2pro2pro2pro2 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I think for me its more a personal thing..Baldur's Gate, NWN, DDO...I enjoyed character creation so much. There were times i would spend hours and hours creating new builds. The thought that had to go into it... where to allocate attributes, skills, feats, alignment, at what level to take that level of fighter for the free feat or the other splash to get this or that. Some call it min/maxing, others may call it full control or "NO Cookie Cutter" I for one will try neverwinter but my hopes have been dashed. When I received my first closed beta invite i was excited thinking NVN Online finally! or even DDO Open world! but alas we will see how gripping and in depth they have chosen to be...for our sake I really hope they have gone all out or at least are planning to with the full intent of delivering. This is a sincere post not a troll, I know what i like and i do understand peoples reservations about no multi classing because I for one have them myself. Have a great day~
  • trevien29trevien29 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    derovar wrote: »
    Try the game out first before forming a negative opinion about it!!

    That says it all
  • walkerwalker Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    aint this an MMO based on the D&D licence? not a D&D game based on an MMO?
  • trevien29trevien29 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    walker wrote: »
    aint this an MMO based on the D&D licence? not a D&D game based on an MMO?

    That is correct, but I would say 4e was based on a MMO
  • raal1raal1 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    10 characters
  • werealchemistwerealchemist Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    walker wrote: »
    aint this an MMO based on the D&D licence? not a D&D game based on an MMO?

    it's an MMO based on a D&D version that is based on an MMO
    21.jpg
  • shepherdofmanshepherdofman Member Posts: 169 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2013
    Multi-classing is something I was really looking forward too quite honestly. It isn't a new feature for MMOs, and definitely not a D&D thing. It can be done pretty easily in fact so that nothing's insanely blown out of proportion also.
    ~They are Lions, and I am their Shepherd~
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