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Lack of choices
auyumn
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
I have been a NWN die hard fan since the beginning and I was disappointed with the leveling of the classes. There were no options on what abilities you wanted, you got what they gave you. To me this took away any customization and would make it so every wizard and rouge for example would play the same way. It makes for very little re-playability. Picking what spells and skills you wants to shape your character the way you envision it is what makes it a D&D based game. Yes even at beginning levels you should have the option to pick which spells you want. I have been cruising the forums and I haven't seen too many people talking about this. It was my biggest let down. I guess only time will tell if this is a Beta only issue. The game has great potential, but imo if they don't fix some of the basics it will not be able to live up to the NWN's name.
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I feel like they could make players feel like they're receiving more customization if they just did that process a certain way. Say, instead of having a class selection screen where you choose your class between guardian fighter, great weapon fighter, trickster rogue, etc., they gave you a screen where you first chose your "base class" (rogue, wizard, warlock, blah, blah, blah) and then they took you to another screen, based on your previous choice, that let you choose your "sub-class".
I feel like this could be cleaner while providing the feeling of extra choice without actually having to provide anything huge.
I would also like to point out that in NWN 1 and 2 they did have this ability to customize your characters and to me that is directly associated with the brand name. If this game was not called NWN I probably wouldn't have the expectations I do for the customizing.
It's not called NWN, it's called Neverwinter Online (NWO). It has absolutely nothing to do with the Neverwinter Nights game/series. This is not NWN 3, this is not a tabletop import of D&D; it's an Action-RPG MMO designed by Cryptic using D&D lore, and loosely based on D&D "rules". The amount of work required to add in everything tabletop offers, and keep the game balanced and oriented towards an MMO crowd, is more than I expect a company to commit to. Hell, even in NWN and NWN 2, a lot of the persistent worlds put severe limits on magic (Arcane and Divine) because it was ridiculously overpowered.
I was thinking the same thing actually. It doesn't bring true D&D to the table in regards to choices but if they did do that I think even those game companies who charge a subscription fee with the success close to Blizzard's game World of Warcraft would be hard pressed to keep the balance thing, and I absolutely do not want to return to anything like that model. What model am I speaking of? Where the game has PVP didn't separate the behaviors for the abilities between pvp and pve, adjusts the game weekly because people start asking for nerfs/buffs, meanwhile the pve'ers are stuck constantly adjusting their skills over and over or entire classes are nerfed into oblivion because more people are playing other classes and thus get preferential treatment.
Let them keep it the way it is, I do not want to have to spend the entire 750k of AD because they decided that Flame Column does too much damage suddenly 3 months into the game.
However what they could do to improve the game slightly is add more mouse click abilities to give it few more options for fighting. The lower level spells (at wills) usually are the most numerous, so they could add a few more per class to mix it up a bit. That would improve the choices early in the game for players so it wouldn't seem completely fixed in design.
No clue where your info is coming from, but this is and never has been NWN 3. Even before PW bought it, it was going to be an MMO. This isn't even a Neverwinter nights based game, they are ENTIRELY different. This is an MMO based on the D&D city of Neverwinter, and the Sword Coast.
I went out and bought the 4E players handbook and had a long talk with folks who play 4E. There are 2 camps I've come across, one think 4E sucks and WOTC should stay away from TSR titles like Gamma World and D&D cause they muck them up and already have swapped to pathfinder as it stays truer to D&D.
The others still play 4E but are now having a hard time finding players because it's no longer D&D.
But to the point. Cryptic does eliminate a lot of the choices even available to 4E players. A lot of the spells available in TT 4E no longer exist replaced by the simplistic spells and abilities used in cryptics pseudo D&D game. But cryptic makes GURPs look good I must say.
And the topic will keep coming back as people realize this isn't even 4E. It's just a poorly made Tera clone desperately clinging to the D&D IP to make money.
No, there is actually very little choice. Certainly not the level of choices associated with the D&D ip, even the controversial 4E. The problem with this is that while the game is exciting and fun to play on a beta weekend where you are rushing to level and experience the game as much as you can before they shut the server off, it is not sustainable over the long term. I have been playing a "mage" since wizards were mages, lol. So if I roll a Controller Wizard and level it. Is that it? I am done? Because if I roll another, it will be exactly the same other than I can change race which doesn't have much effect other than changing the look. Customization is important to longevity of an MMO. Choices are essential. Even rolling a different class will currently get you the exact same storyline. How many times will someone play through the same content before boredom ensues? Choices of spells, armor, weapons, feats, stats, are essential so that each character created is unique. So that you want to roll another to try out something different.
13 years of Everquest disagrees with you.
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This is one of many articles I found on the subject. It was not an MMO originally. Neverwinter--An MMO Rich with Lore
The article says absolutely nothing to suggest this was supposed to be Neverwinter Nights 3. It's part of the Forgotten Realms franchise, and it does a fine job of living up to the events taking place in the NOVELS. What took place in a 3rd edition game called Neverwinter Nights, designed by a completely different company, has nothing to do with this Neverwinter game. I don't really know how I could be more clear...The city of Neverwinter existed prior to either of these games, and I'm sure there will be future games based on the city of Neverwinter or the Sword Coast that have nothing to do with NWO.
You don't see a lot, because we've already come to grips with it. This is how it's going to be. You will be acquiring new heroes if you want different powers. It was high on the gripe list.
I know that the time investment is huge... but this is something that I would like if ever possible. Adding new spells to classes already out at some point down the road.
Choice in user-generated content will also be coming once the Foundry is opened up to more people.
If you really want more choice in terms of spells, close your eyes and imagine it is a fireball you cast instead of ray of frost... DND was built on imagination in the first place.
- Jasc
Always one that wants to claim a game is a clone.......its a MMO....yes its similar to all other MMO's, why? because its a MMO.
Terra fan boys, WoW fan boys all MMO fan boy's say it at the launch of any new MMO. So to join in how about Ultima, an MMO predating the above mentioned, guess they are all a clone of that now....
You did get one bit right though, it is loosely based off D&D rules, and if it was exactly based off D&D many of the abilities would be on a 24 hour cooldown. I think some of you guys need to give the dev's a break, they are putting out a great looking game, its F2P so they aren't expecting a cent from you unless you want to. It is simply not viable to add all the rules and choices to a video game that D&D pen and paper provides, all games are an evolution of others and are based of a previous title in some way, just the way medical and technological advancement is.
Enjoy the game for what it is, and lets not forget MMO's grow constantly in content.
I see NWO as being what D&D 4th ed was back when it was first released. Limited classes, default builds, limited powers. The good thing about this game, is that it can, and I suspect, very much will be added to. So that if the majority of the player base want more powers, and are willing to support the game so those powers can be developed, then I can't see any reason why Cryptic wouldn't do so.
At the end of the day, it's a FTP game. You don't have to shell out cash if you don't want to, you can still play the game, or you can leave it and let it be.
But what is most important milestone for me is when multi-class and hybrid will be released. I hope its sometime soon like an year or so after launch.
The mechanics of each class are based on specific abilities that require a tot number of keybind to work. If you add the multi-class addiction, you won't have enough keys to play it correctly. That's why they won't add the multi-class tool.
Besides that, the classes are split among roles to play. This count toward the choice of adding a changing class function.
You just swap a power from your main class to a power you got from multiclassing in another.
Like if i am playing a rogue and i decide to multiclass with wizard, i get magic missile as a encounter power instead of it being at-will. At least its the way i understand it. Multiclassing uses feats so i dont know how they will make it if they ever.
No, its a tera clone cause it plays and looks a lot like tera. Tera has a bit more character customization and class customization. But I couldn't help but feel I was playing tera again.
But it eliminates the best parts of D&D, choice. This game eliminates even the few choices 4E gave you
I'm not a tera fan I hate WOW. EQ2 was fun for a while as was SW:TOR. My most favorite was a small game called Istaria (www.istaria.com). If they could get some cash and a staff back that game would rock again. But what they all have that NWO greatly fails at is customization.
And please, enough of the beta illusion. I've been through way too many beta's to not know what's in stone and what's not.
This last beta will be the decider for me. After that I'll decide if I leave my money here and hope for the best or just move it to shroud of the avatar.
This means that we can expect to see characters and locations based in/on Forgotten Realms, but the gameplay will forever be more like CO and STO than D&D... 4E or whatever other edition.
Regarding hybrid "classes", I think we'll see them come post-launch. Regarding customization, I'm afraid the only gameplay customization model we'll ever have would be more like what CO allows with pre-made Superhero Archetypes rather than CO FreeForm characters.
Perhaps one day Cryptic would decide to surprise us with a sort of FreeForm NWO character that is allowed to choose and combine different skills from different sources and thus build a more-customizable character, but I truly doubt that.
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
That's precisely what has me the most disappointed. Not in the "I think this game is horrible and will never play it" sort of way, just the "I'm disappointed at some of the design decisions" sort of way. When I first heard Cryptic was working on a D&D game, I knew they'd end up using their engine....and knowing the power of that engine in terms of customization (in CO and to a lesser extent, STO), I'm downright shocked that the game is as restrictive as it is.
I would not be disappointed just yet in the sense that if you're a Silver (free) player in Champions Online, and you enjoy collecting characters based on the Silver Archetypes, then that sort of "meta-game" may be available in the future with NWO.
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
Multiclass just increases number of available powers, not the number of powers you use at once.
Neverwinter being F2P out of the gate was pretty much a given...especially after the whole PW thing. No, what really disappoints me about that is that the $200 founders pack (which would equate to their LTS offers in CO and STO) ends up feeling...empty. I LTS'd to both CO and STO and have never regretted it, particularly with what both ended up giving after their F2P conversions. ...I would gladly pay again for another LTS-style investment...but this founders pack doesn't really come close...
But that's neither here nor there, I suppose.
I was remarking on the extensive customizablility of the CO's original Freeform characters. I could easily see that sort of system being applied to D&D character construction...and that was my original expectation when first I heard about the project. Now, though, I see that they're using the Archetype system with their class/race options...which, I admit, is fantastic for a F2P model ("Here's a new class/race! Only a couple bucks!") but which is terribly restrictive for D&D style character building....where the only limit is your creativity (and creative use of the rules...).