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Guardian Fighter Beta 2 - feedback (long, skills)
volcxxx
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
Overall i love this game, it is very challenging (at least for solo Guardian fighter), rewarding, and i feel this game can trumble whole MMO market today. I played many MMO's as tank, so choice was no-brainer for me. I maxed (30) Guardian Fighter in First Beta, in second beta i gived this class another shot (up to lv 40).
Im sorry to say this: i had really good time in first beta, now in second beta i can say one sad word: dissapointment
Guardian Fighter got nerfed to the ground. All fun i have in First Beta, now was gone. I felt like paper-tank, spam-potion healing rogue without daggers. Until lv 38, and new gear (1500 power/1700 defence/27 AC) playing was not fun and i didnt feel tankish class at all. Ehh... /sadpanda
Main changes since last beta:
1. Fighters Recovery.
It was emergency skill, OP in previous beta build, now underpowered. Under level ~35, even if i used all my dps skills, hp gain was too small. This changed a little when i got blue mace from AH (lv 38). With 1500 Attack hp heal was better, but STILL not enough to be good enough.
2. Enforced Threat.
BIG and i mean game-breaking nerf. In previous build this aoe damage/aggro skill had additional 20% (25%?) Reduced Damage buff. This buff must be reverted, without it Guardian Fighter is underpowered badly. Make it 15% and give additional 10% in paragon trait in tankish path (Protector, Paragon trait Brawling Warrior). I took 1 point (i could spend 1 point on lv 40 becouse it is 3 row trait) and seems nothing changed.
3. Changes to Block mechanics.
I dont like blocking now. Simply as that. I dont know now - with floating numbers - if i blocked attack or not. Revert it to previous version please. Blocking in previous build was fun, much clearer system. Sometimes block seems not working at all, mechanic got changed (im guessing some mobs skills ignores blocking).
OK now lets look at skills. Guardian Fighter have 5-6 good skills. Rest of them seems useless or very situational.
I played with same combination of skills all levels, becouse i felt that there was no real choice. Overall Guardian Fighter looks like unfinished class.
I will focus on broken ones (in my opinion):
CLASS SKILLS
1. TAB skill. MARK
Man... seriously? /cry
Rogues got stealth, wizard got pump-up skill of choice, cleric got imba-mode and guardian got... joke? This skill should change gameplay, should add choices and possibilities. Guardian TAB skill is not fun at all, brings nothing to table, just terrible design.
Change it to something like wizard/cleric have (something that will CHANGE gameplay). Now it is WoW-clone Hunters Mark from vanila game. Not funny, not even worth using. And very boring compared to other classes...
2. Ferocious Reaction
This COULD be good skill but now seems not working. Dunno, tried it couple of times and didnt noticed hp heal (or was so small that not even noticed it). And 5 min cooldown its too long in my opinion.
3. Enduring warrior (from description)
1% healed when mob dies. On lv 40 i have 15k health, so every killed mob heals me for 150 hp. 1% is not enough, make it 3% and this could be usefull.
AT-WILL SKILLS
1. Threatening Rush .
Paragon skill At-Will. This is funny, why it is in this paragon path? This skill is useless in tanking.
Cleave/Tide of Iron are much better choice in every situations. I see this skill usefull only in PVP. Change it to somethiNg else (maybe "Pull mob" or "Shield Throw" with aggro?)
2. Crushing Surge.
Concept is good, but simply cleave is much bettter. Make swing animation 2x faster (this is single target skill) OR make third shot's heal 5x bigger (now it heals on lv 30 for 80-90 hp). Now it is useless.
3. Shield slam (guard attack).
I think it should replenish 10% guard meter, not 5%. + generate MUCH more aggro.
DAILY POWER SKILLS
1. Villans Menace
Change it. Its much worse than Terrifying Impact so no choice here. Maybe high damage aoe pull with 2s stun?
2. Supremacy of steel
This could be ok IF it duration lasts 15-20 seconds. Now it is useless.
3. Fighter Recovery
This is MUST skill on every build. Now nerfed, please make heal 2x higher.
ENCOUNTER POWERS
1. Enforced Threat
Need mitigation buff, like it was in previous build.
2. Knee breaker
Dunno, this skill could be usefull in PvP. In Pve and group dungeons it is useless.
3. Knights Challenge
Man this skill is suicide mission. Seriously. Change it or just trash it.
4. Into the Fray
Good one, but this should be passive long-term group buff not couple seconds... Maybe remove Action Point generation or speed buff, dunno. But make it permament buff for group and then this could have place in skill bar.
5. Knights Valor
Another suicide skill, useless. Make taken damage 20% of all damage taken mitigated with AC/Damage reduction in 15 seconds.
6. Anvil od Doom
I think now is nerfed since last beta build. Make it 5s cooldown, not 16s and this could be usefull.
7. Frontline Surge
Good one, but not in 20s cooldown. Make it hit MUCH harder or shorten cooldown to 10s.
8. Bull charge (iv only read description)
Another charge skill? Not needed, Lunging strike/Threatening Rush are enough in pvp for flying on battlefield like master Joda
Rest Encounter Powers are ok... all 3 of them, and i dont know how will work Iron Warrior (but looking good on description).
Other sugesstions:
1. STATS. Really we need some clear stats table. Example: there is unclear how much mitigation my char have. Damage resistance from AC, from Constitution, from Defence. How much total i have? Should i add one to another? Make please stats clearer - we need one page, paperdoll tab or some other stats page, where all stats will be summarised.
2. DEFLECTION should work better in my opinion. Now it mitigates about 50% damage (passive). It should be 70-80%. Its very hard to pump up deflection (in my calculations Halfling Guardian on max lv with maxed dex should have 12% Deflection, all other races about 5%).
3. There is level gap when entering Graveyard (mobs are 2-5 lv higher). This zone was really painfull... please add some quests in lower zones to catch up 1-2 levels.
4. Zone with demons (forest, town, plains with battlefield, sorry, dont remember name). Feels unfinished.
5. Cleric disciple pet. Now kinda broken, to force him to cast hot i needed unsummon/summon him again.
This is all i have now in mind. Sorry for grammar, english is not my first language.
AND KEEP UP GOOD WORK!
Im sorry to say this: i had really good time in first beta, now in second beta i can say one sad word: dissapointment
Guardian Fighter got nerfed to the ground. All fun i have in First Beta, now was gone. I felt like paper-tank, spam-potion healing rogue without daggers. Until lv 38, and new gear (1500 power/1700 defence/27 AC) playing was not fun and i didnt feel tankish class at all. Ehh... /sadpanda
Main changes since last beta:
1. Fighters Recovery.
It was emergency skill, OP in previous beta build, now underpowered. Under level ~35, even if i used all my dps skills, hp gain was too small. This changed a little when i got blue mace from AH (lv 38). With 1500 Attack hp heal was better, but STILL not enough to be good enough.
2. Enforced Threat.
BIG and i mean game-breaking nerf. In previous build this aoe damage/aggro skill had additional 20% (25%?) Reduced Damage buff. This buff must be reverted, without it Guardian Fighter is underpowered badly. Make it 15% and give additional 10% in paragon trait in tankish path (Protector, Paragon trait Brawling Warrior). I took 1 point (i could spend 1 point on lv 40 becouse it is 3 row trait) and seems nothing changed.
3. Changes to Block mechanics.
I dont like blocking now. Simply as that. I dont know now - with floating numbers - if i blocked attack or not. Revert it to previous version please. Blocking in previous build was fun, much clearer system. Sometimes block seems not working at all, mechanic got changed (im guessing some mobs skills ignores blocking).
OK now lets look at skills. Guardian Fighter have 5-6 good skills. Rest of them seems useless or very situational.
I played with same combination of skills all levels, becouse i felt that there was no real choice. Overall Guardian Fighter looks like unfinished class.
I will focus on broken ones (in my opinion):
CLASS SKILLS
1. TAB skill. MARK
Man... seriously? /cry
Rogues got stealth, wizard got pump-up skill of choice, cleric got imba-mode and guardian got... joke? This skill should change gameplay, should add choices and possibilities. Guardian TAB skill is not fun at all, brings nothing to table, just terrible design.
Change it to something like wizard/cleric have (something that will CHANGE gameplay). Now it is WoW-clone Hunters Mark from vanila game. Not funny, not even worth using. And very boring compared to other classes...
2. Ferocious Reaction
This COULD be good skill but now seems not working. Dunno, tried it couple of times and didnt noticed hp heal (or was so small that not even noticed it). And 5 min cooldown its too long in my opinion.
3. Enduring warrior (from description)
1% healed when mob dies. On lv 40 i have 15k health, so every killed mob heals me for 150 hp. 1% is not enough, make it 3% and this could be usefull.
AT-WILL SKILLS
1. Threatening Rush .
Paragon skill At-Will. This is funny, why it is in this paragon path? This skill is useless in tanking.
Cleave/Tide of Iron are much better choice in every situations. I see this skill usefull only in PVP. Change it to somethiNg else (maybe "Pull mob" or "Shield Throw" with aggro?)2. Crushing Surge.
Concept is good, but simply cleave is much bettter. Make swing animation 2x faster (this is single target skill) OR make third shot's heal 5x bigger (now it heals on lv 30 for 80-90 hp). Now it is useless.
3. Shield slam (guard attack).
I think it should replenish 10% guard meter, not 5%. + generate MUCH more aggro.
DAILY POWER SKILLS
1. Villans Menace
Change it. Its much worse than Terrifying Impact so no choice here. Maybe high damage aoe pull with 2s stun?
2. Supremacy of steel
This could be ok IF it duration lasts 15-20 seconds. Now it is useless.
3. Fighter Recovery
This is MUST skill on every build. Now nerfed, please make heal 2x higher.
ENCOUNTER POWERS
1. Enforced Threat
Need mitigation buff, like it was in previous build.
2. Knee breaker
Dunno, this skill could be usefull in PvP. In Pve and group dungeons it is useless.
3. Knights Challenge
Man this skill is suicide mission. Seriously. Change it or just trash it.
4. Into the Fray
Good one, but this should be passive long-term group buff not couple seconds... Maybe remove Action Point generation or speed buff, dunno. But make it permament buff for group and then this could have place in skill bar.
5. Knights Valor
Another suicide skill, useless. Make taken damage 20% of all damage taken mitigated with AC/Damage reduction in 15 seconds.
6. Anvil od Doom
I think now is nerfed since last beta build. Make it 5s cooldown, not 16s and this could be usefull.
7. Frontline Surge
Good one, but not in 20s cooldown. Make it hit MUCH harder or shorten cooldown to 10s.
8. Bull charge (iv only read description)
Another charge skill? Not needed, Lunging strike/Threatening Rush are enough in pvp for flying on battlefield like master Joda
Rest Encounter Powers are ok... all 3 of them, and i dont know how will work Iron Warrior (but looking good on description).
Other sugesstions:
1. STATS. Really we need some clear stats table. Example: there is unclear how much mitigation my char have. Damage resistance from AC, from Constitution, from Defence. How much total i have? Should i add one to another? Make please stats clearer - we need one page, paperdoll tab or some other stats page, where all stats will be summarised.
2. DEFLECTION should work better in my opinion. Now it mitigates about 50% damage (passive). It should be 70-80%. Its very hard to pump up deflection (in my calculations Halfling Guardian on max lv with maxed dex should have 12% Deflection, all other races about 5%).
3. There is level gap when entering Graveyard (mobs are 2-5 lv higher). This zone was really painfull... please add some quests in lower zones to catch up 1-2 levels.
4. Zone with demons (forest, town, plains with battlefield, sorry, dont remember name). Feels unfinished.
5. Cleric disciple pet. Now kinda broken, to force him to cast hot i needed unsummon/summon him again.
This is all i have now in mind. Sorry for grammar, english is not my first language.
AND KEEP UP GOOD WORK!
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
Post edited by volcxxx on
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Comments
Anyway, I was too busy playing and not being too picky about the character build but this guy is near 100% with his comment
My experience is extremely limited compared to the amount the OP has played, but I feel I really got to chime in here and say that it just sounds like you want every power, feat, and stat buffed for the Guardian Fighter. With situational awareness and a minimal amount of skill, both things that the game mechanics are based on, you can get around a lot of the OPs complaints.
The Guardian Fighter, while hearty, is not meant to sit there and just mash his snap aggro abilities and auto-attack while he holds the mobs in a nice little group so the dps can take care of them while the healer shoots super powerful heals his way. Your position and movement are key to minimizing incoming damage. You have to worry about other stats than just defense so that you can hit hard enough to keep generating threat without considering your ability to use Enforcing Threat the extent of your tanking prowess.
Personally I think the game is too easy buy enough potions and you win. The cooldown on these things is way too short, you can carry a near infinite amount of them, and they cost hardly anything from vendors. Between that and Fighter's Recovery I only died twice all weekend, once was only because I fell. Fighter's Recovery is extremely powerful given how frequently you can use your Dailies. I understand it isn't fun hitting the daily and not seeing your health instantly shoot up to full or watching all the mobs around die instantly. But with how often you can use them as a GF, Fighter's Recovery is extremely useful.
That being said I agree on a few points.
Mark was extremely confusing for me, I wasn't even sure if it was taking effect despite seeing the "X" appear over the mob for a brief time. Maybe it was being over-written by other Guardian Fighters that were in my groups, but it was hard to tell if I was doing anything by using it.
Blocking seemed strange as well. For awhile I was wondering why I was even doing it, since I still saw damage numbers flying off me all the time. I know some attacks still get through, but it was every attack that showed how much damage. Whether or not it actually did damage, I don't know because I can't constantly watch my health bar. Maybe I missed an option to turn that off while blocking, but it was distracting.
I would like to emphasize a few key points and add some, too.
Fighter's Recovery: Yes, it definitely was a bit too powerful in the first beta weekend, but now it is definitely too weak. If I am going to sacrifice my action points to only heal myself and not do any crowd control or damage, it had better be able to heal at least 50% of my HP during its duration.
Block/Guard Meter: Guardian Fighters are supposed to be able to stand in the fray and block attacks. We have minimal mobility, and it is our role to shield our party. However, blocking is underpowered and one's Guard Meter is simply demolished far too quickly by bosses. I cannot effectively use my shield when my Guard Meter is destroyed in two blows and the rate of incoming damage exceeds my ability to regenerate it. It is not like I can dodge out of enemy attacks, either. My only defense is my shield, and my job is to use it. This must be fixed.
Mark: I know what Mark is supposed to do, and it sort of does it... maybe. The trouble is, it is wholly underwhelming. I would like something that is noticeable and powerful, like every other class.
Into the Fray:This skill needs a pile of work. First of all, its duration is far too short. Secondly, its speed increase is too small. Finally, you need to stop moving to use it, which negates the bonus! Yes, your party gets the full effect since they do not stop moving, obviously, but given how short its duration is and how small the bonus is, it is silly you need to stop. I like how skills root you, but this is one that should not unless its bonuses are improved.
Anvil of Doom:The cooldown is far too long, and does anyone know when an enemy has low HP so you can get the 100% increase in damage? That needs to be clear for this to be good.
Crushing Surge: There is presently no point to using this. It is slow, its damage is poor, and its heal effect is negligible. It needs major revision in order to be more useful than Cleave.
Shield Slam: I concur with volcxxx: Make it restore 10% Guard Meter. Given its damage and the fact it does not weaken enemies, 5% is too low.
Stab: I do not know how to fix Stab, because while it consumes Guard Meter and I think that in parties that is unnecessary, I can see how making it not consume Guard Meter may lead to Guardian Fighters just turtling all the time. Perhaps make its damage lower, but make its threat generation really high, and make it not consume Guard Meter? That makes it ideal for tanking in groups, which I feel is its main purpose.
Anyway, my main issue is making the Guard Fighter a more durable, more fun defender. Right now it simply cannot mitigate damage like I feel it should, and if it cannot do that well, then what is the point?
discussing & often complaining about the imaginary.
[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1618000&dateline=1316204434[/SIGPIC]
I think overall the GF is a great class, but it still needs a few buffs here and there. The damage seems a little low, and the threat is terrible. How can you be a tank with no threat, and better dmg mitigation would be nice.
1) Tab Key: useless, I tried to use it several times but I can not find a real use for it. (the tab key for the rogue instead is fantastic, for example)
2) The Shield Meter is consumed too quickly, especially with the bosses, how can you think that you could tank if after two shots the shield is down? It would take more skills that allow you to recharge it or at least make it more durable
3) Recovery Figher: ok in the first beta was OP, but now it's useless! You should try to balance it, finding a middle ground between the two
4) Aggro: please, we are tanks, we must have the aggro ALWAYS, if we want to have it
Jhoz
Proud Officer of Ordo Draconis, DDO Italian Elite Guild
now up on Neverwinter Online, member of Ordo Obscuri Domini, Italian Guild
- Fighters Recovery : Put it back to where in was sin BW1
Pretty useless now, in Beta week 1 it was really useful and helped my tank to survive on many tough situation... now this skill on a similar given situation is completely transparent.. to a point that I was wondering if I activated it or not.
to give you an idea.. My rogue thief have more skill to survive in similar situation and will end the fight with far more hit point.. something is definitely wrong !!!!
It was emergency skill, OP in previous beta build, now underpowered. Under level ~35, even if i used all my dps skills, hp gain was too small. This changed a little when i got blue mace from AH (lv 38). With 1500 Attack hp heal was better, but STILL not enough to be good enough.
- Changes to Block mechanics : I agree on that, I could not clearly know when I was really blocking and I had the feeling that I was not blocking at all despite using the skill.
As an example: I could do clock tower (lvl 15 group quest) with 5 rogues (no healer) and nobody died and we ran it very smoothly.
On my tank I died twice.. there is a problem and not a small one.
I played the cleric and rogue, and without pointing out that those 2 classes were OP (as they're not!), I would say that the Tank is so far weaker than those 2.
Why ? because as a rogue (and cleric) you have nice skills which are really making the difference between dying or living...
The tank has too many skills which have been changed from beta week 1.. making them less efficient or even worse useless.
The block system and moreover "Fighters Recovery" skill must be reworked otherwise the tank job will be a pain in the back.
I didnt play BW1 but did level a guardian in this one to 34, a rogue to 15 and a cleric to 12.
The class needs major rework its really bad atm. Cant tank, cant dps, cant support, cant cc...
The worst issue ive seen so far is that you didnt need a tank, if 1 or 2 party members had the tanky companion you were good to go.
Rest classes can do what they usually do, the guardian stands there looking pretty.
I do agree however that the class has no identity, right now it feel like dry toast. It has very low DPS, it's very hard to hold aggro even when playing it right and it's completely unnecessary to have one in a group.
Take the other trinity class, the Cleric. Any group composition can do Cloak Tower beginning to end without a Guardian Fighter or a Devoted Cleric; however, if you do have a Devoted Cleric in your party you can do the dungeon much faster, less messy and it's much more fun. They make a difference.
Having a Guardian Fighter on the other hand doesn't make the dungeon any more enjoyable, faster to clear and just a little less messy because it's not that they are 100% incompetenet at holding aggro, just mediocre. No difference to the experience whether you have one in your party or not...
Ideally, a group of any configuration should be able to clear a whole dungeon, but if they don't have a healer AND a tank they should have a much, much harder time doing so. I would really like it if the presence of a Guardian Fighter and/or a Cleric is something a group is very happy to have.
We are already mediocre at soloing, dungeons and other group content is all we've got
Maybe try playing around with some builds or something, I didn't get enough equipment to make a life steal set or anything but I'm pretty sure that stacked with the ridiculous amount of potions a hero can cram into their belly and Fighter's Recovery would make you practically invincible. As far as threat management goes... maybe those who are having problems need to sit this game out as a tank and wait for GWF. I had no issues keeping hate.
I can only speak for me and based on my personal experience but when on a similar group of 3/4 mobs fight with a rogue, I finish with more hit point and can chain another group fight (without any healing potion) while on a tank you better take healing potion because your skills doesn't prevent you from taking lot of damages or your dps is maybe too low.. then I think I can ask myself some questions.
As I said and other people has mentioned... the tank class is tasteless.
I did clock tower on my rogue with a group of 5 rogues and no healer... no problem at all, smooth run up to the end.
I did the same on my tank.. it was a mess..I tried to do my job as a tank and died 2 times because of the lack of block, mitigation and the "Fighters Recovery" nerf didn't help either.
Nobody's asking for a tank which can stay in front of a boss and go for a smoke and a coffee break without dying... but com'on and let's be a bit serious.
As for survivability, I did notice I had to chug potions more often than I would have liked, but we had no healer in the group.
I just didn't have the same problems that the vocal minority here have had. That leads me to believe perhaps, just maybe, these "tanks" need to work on their gameplay or builds. I'm not just here to call out the baddies or anything like that. But I felt the game to be overly easy from what I saw this weekend, and would hate to see a decent system get **** on because too many whiner-complainers couldn't handle it.
You played low lv Guardian (16-20 lv), right? (as you stated in other topic). Those levels are kindergarden.
I was writing about lv 35+ Guardian, this IS different play than you know from your playstyle.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
thanks God there is always people like you to make me laugh... you're so good at communication, calling people who don't share your opinion "minority and whiner".
Actually, I think you're the only one who think that everything is prefect...so I think you are the "minority"
I don't see whiner as you like to call us.. but people who are just reporting few things in order to report possible gameplay issue and improve the class.
Based on what I've heard, the difficulty is increasing exponentially.. therefore I believe that we better not notice gameplay or skill issues at low level or we might all have big problem around lvl 40.
Wait a bit..Volcxxx's tank was 35+, wasn't it... so I think he's in a better position to express any potential issue than you may be with a tank level 20.
Nobody's asking for a super God tank class.. just skills which allow us to feel like a tank and act like a tank.
Second is around lv 35-38. When 38 dings, you can wear new lv 38 gear - very big difference (at least pieces i found) helped very much. At lv 40 i didnt have much problems.
Real problem i was focused on my feedback was lack of usefull skills .
I didnt have big problems with aggro when i was tanking lv 41 instance TBH.
I just want to have fun with class im playing. If guardian will stay like he is now i will just pass thiss class and play cleric.
I leveled cleric to 30 last beta and that was totally different, funny and refreshing.
If Guardian stay as he is now this class will be underplayed, becouse it is not fun compared to other classes.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
You dont offer anything to the group, nothing, nada.
The way the class is atm is a WASTE of party slot.
try searching around youtube, you will find videos from this BW from the green dragon and the 40 lvl instance.
Both were finished without a HUMAN PLAYER TANK.
Lets see what the other classes and companions do.
Cleric Companion: 1 attack, 1 heal can never replace the player.
Cleric Player: dmg, heals AND cc!
Rogue/striker Companion: 1 attack, 1 cc/attack can never replace player
Rogue player: INSANE DMG. Numbers of 6k+ in lvl 38 EASY! AND disable traps in boss fights, laugh if u want but they do kill u if u are not carefull.
CW companion: 1 attack, 1 cc/attack can never replace player
CW player: sustained medium dmg AND CC, can make a huge difference if u have one.
GWF comp: 1 attack, 1 cc/attack can never replace player
GWF player: decent dmg, decent defence, taunts AND CC!
(these are based on the 2 videos we have but i doubt it would be much different)
Guardian Companion: 1 attack, charge and taunt. you basic meat shield that goes in, aggroes and stays there.
Guardian Player: pathetic dmg, decent defence, 1-2 taunts. NO CLASS MECHANIC OR TAB SKILL.
Read OP again, play one to higher levels (not like the Pro tank level 16 Meathook), then come again and tell us that the class is fine.
@iguesseveryoneelse, I'll concede that I only experienced low level tanking in the Cloak Tower, a point I've actually been extremely clear about in practically every tanking related post I've made. With that being said, how was that end-game content? No one knows because of level cap, so how can you judge the class? I hope you see the point I'm making here. Hopefully I'll get another shot in BW3 to try some higher level gameplay before they nerf it to infant-level difficulty.
Sorry to not agree with you Mister perfect but I prefer to agree with volcxxx on the fact that the tank class should have more useful skills.
I had very limited playtime on this past BW, only got to level 8, but I was enjoying myself to that point. I did get into the next weekend and plan on taking A LOT more time to play. Hoping to get to the 30ish range.
From what I've read in this thread, it sounds like there could be a threat vs damage issue. If the tanks are focusing solely on defensive stats, this could become an issue. That was my biggest issue with what WoW became. It was focusing purely on your chosen role. I enjoyed vanilla WoW tanking. The challenge of literally fighting for aggro made tanking that much more fun. If you're getting frustrated with others pulling threat, then maybe those players need to respect your ability to play the game and have fun or find new friends who will do this.
Maybe GF need to balance defensive stats with offensive stats. I may be talking out of my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because I have so little experience with this game, but I haven't seen anyone mention this theory yet. Bruenor Battlehammer wasn't a dodge and block kind of GF. He had his strength to help him too.
NORMAL ATTACK - with normal attack we need the guardian fighter to take a step forward every time he slashes cause i almost all of the time ended up being about 2-3 pixels further then my slash range from the enemy and i have to stop attacking to move closer because we get combo locked so easy... we need that for the wizard 2