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4th ed D&D
i am starting to really loathe 4th ed, i had a look at the official and the control wizard isnt much different to NWO it has the same dailies, the same encounter stuff, theres a few more spells though, but not many why did they have to change so much uggh.
bring back 3.5 lol
bring back 3.5 lol
Actual Join date: Dec 2007
Post edited by reilz1981 on
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I have a copy of Pathfinder and actually it isn't too bad, all things considered. Still, nothing compares to the epic times we had with scenarios like the Demonweb Pits books, The Slave Lords scenarios, Temple of Elemental Evil, Avatar Trilogy and so on. All of these, plus many many more scenarios are what occupied my life in the 80s.
I still have a complete set of AD&D first ed books shrink wrapped. I bought them at Reading Games Fair for 1 GBP a book just before they released 2nd ed. I still have all my AD&D scenarios in storage along with the shrink wrapped books too. I might have to go and get them out for old times sake.
I don't get people that criticise 4th edition for "being too simple or arcade" while worshiping 3.5 or even 1st edition... After all, D&D was born as a simple sketch of rulesets that simulated Warhammer (only that you controlled a single unit, your character). Anything that can help to play something like that and keeps the concept coherence of what makes D&D (the party with the thief, the fighter, the priest and the mage) will always be D&D. Doesn't matter which edition you use!
- Titania Silverblade, the Iron Rose of Myth Drannor (Lvl 60 GWF, Destroyer)
- Gwyneth, the Cowardly Cat Burglar Drowling (Lvl 60 TR, Saboteur)
- Lady Rowanne Firehair, Heartwarder of Sune (Lvl 33 DC)
- Satella, Sensate (LvL 44 CW, Renegade, Non-Active)
Check Steppenkat's Foundry Quest Reviews!
I understand where you are coming from. I don't loathe 4ed D&D because it is too simple, I dislike it because it is too 'arcade'. I grew up playing the original white boxed basic D&D released in 1974 and that was a very simple system. I strongly disagree with you (but that doesn't mean you are wrong, just that I disagree with you) that anything packaged as D&D is D&D though.
For me 4ed reminds me too much of a board game with RPG elements. Don't get me wrong, I love board games and I would be happy to play a D&D board game, but they haven't packaged it as such. We used to play HeroQuest and all manner of other fantasy 'D&D style' board games and we loved them. I realise that gaming systems evolve according to the tastes of the world at large but this doesn't necessarily make them better.
Of course, the original creators of D&D, TSR Inc (Tactical Strategic Rules) purely made wargames where you controlled a mass of characters, rather than one individual, before the idea was touted by Gygax (who I met in 1983, lovely guy) and Arneson. Back then, it was about the imagination and the little metal figures were purely used if you wanted to visualise combat positioning only. As you rightly say, the ruleset in the beginning was very minimal and it left more to the imagination.
The game will always have common ground with older versions purely because of the name and nothing else but that doesn't mean we have to like all of the versions simply because of the name. After all, if they decided to give 4ed a different name, the vast majority of people would never guess the link between D&D and this 'new' game. I don't like 3ed but I do like 3.5. I prefer 1st ed AD&D over 2nd ed AD&D and I dislike 4th ed because it has taken away what was the fundamental purity of the game and turned it into a pseudo boardgame for me. In fact, it took me quite a while to embrace the third incarnation of the system. I resisted until 3.5 came along as I thought 3rd ed was awful.
Please note that this is purely my opinion and I don't expect or require others to agree with me. Healthy debate is encouraging and very welcome but let's try to keep everything constructive, can we please?
Please play 4e properly before passing judgement time comments.
First of all, gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with 4e. So your 'demand' or 'criticism' itself is unfounded.
Next:-
is a false statement. What is control wizard? It is a recommended template of Lvl 1 wizard. Thats all. It is *NOT* a build. It is just a recommendation for first level to get you started. There is no "daily, encounter or stuff" assigned to control wizard recommended build.
4e is simple for people who have a quick superficial look because all the comlexities are hidden under the hood.
The only has two things common with arcade
--- combat is defined realistically and needs minis (or a map) to play effectively.
--- The classes are balanced and min-max is not a big problem (due to absence of insta death abilities with PC)
That being said, I observed in another post that even though the engine uses rules that are only tertiary in their relationship to the 4e rules, that's not what defines Neverwinter as a "D&D" game to me; it's the setting and the monsters and stuff.
In the end, I really didn't enjoy playing 4e myself while prepping for Neverwinter. If *you* enjoy it, however, I'm happy.
A friend has been running 4th ed for us for the last few months and I have two conclusions. 1) It's a fun game. 2) It is not D&D in any way and has nothing to do with D&D except for using a few similar terms.
I originally was skeptical of 4th ed but once I got a good look at it I realized that it was not D&D, from then on I looked at it as a completely new game and I saw its good points (and its bad points, but what game doesn't have bad points?). We have been having a lot of fun with it. I don't think I would like to GM it, I'll stick to 3.0 when I GM the game, but there have been a number of games over the years that I played but did not want to GM.
Well if you actually compare Cryptic did drop a good bit of stuff to simplify it for their online game. Most those builds listed are only "suggested" once you actually play 4E you learn how to mix and match.
Just came across a startup that looks kind of interesting. It's based off UO which is one game I never played but it has interesting modes of play
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/16/shroud-of-the-avatars-lead-story-designer-revealed-its-dragonlance-author-tracy-hickman/
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/technology/shroudthe-avatar-can-be-played-as-offline-single-player-game-or-mmorpg_839822.html
Neverwinter is entirely unlike 4E's mechanics. Don't blame 4E if you don't like Neverwinter.
4E is a great game, and entirely true to Gygax's vision for D&D.
Go play DDO?
doesnt need to be brought back, you can just use the pathfinder ruleset and any other campaign setting that you like if you dont like the campaign setting they use.