I strongly disagree. The knockback (Repel) is more of an "oh ****" button. It may get more use during solo play, but when running dungeons and group play, it should almost never be used. Assuming the tank is doing his job, why would you want to knock the mobs far away from everyone and spread them all out?
In fact, the Control Wizard's power should come from from his ability to lock opponents in place (and various other stun/snare type abilities). A Control Wizard should control - that's it's whole purpose - it's even in it's name.
In group play its really annoying when people keep kicking back mobs. As a tank you then need to run up to them if your charge is on CD. First thing that came to me during Skirmish is why are these ranged guys even in melee range all the time?
0
Options
athrogatheMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited March 2013
I'm at lvl 25 now. This is my experience:
At the earlier levels (pre 15ish) I had a "hard" time and did not enjoy the game play that much with my CW. After getting Spell Mastery and Steal Time I started enjoying it much more. I have Chill Strike as my Spell Mastery spell. Which in turn makes it a low cooldown AOE smasher. It more often than not hits for 1k+ at around lvl 25. I also like Steal Time even thogh it does take some time to cast. It's a nice AOE and a nice stun. As for our dailies, they rock imo. Many post that clerics rule more, however, I feel that our dailies are much more fun that theirs. (I have a lvl 20 cleric). If many of you would bother looking into the feat system, you cna see how much exciting stuff is in there. For instance Chaos Magic seems like a really powerful treat. And yeah, if you want pure dps go trickster rouge. A CW is atm. a perfect hybrid between DPS and support.
And btw, I DO NOT THINK that Ray of Enfeeblement sucks. Quite the contrary. Its a sweet DOT. Put it as Spell Mastery and you got a double DOT ticking like mad on the mobs. I have never died in the game on my CW. I have soloed all the content and I find the class quite strong! (except pre 15).
Guys, please don't judge a class at lvl 10. It just shows that you should not be in beta. If you are looking for all classes to be perfectly balanced at all levels you are naive. We want fun classes that are quite balanced at end game. Get to 40 and come with constructive feedback and thoughts on various spells and feats rather than just blabbering about lvl 10 experiences.
0
Options
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I strongly disagree. The knockback (Repel) is more of an "oh ****" button. It may get more use during solo play, but when running dungeons and group play, it should almost never be used. Assuming the tank is doing his job, why would you want to knock the mobs far away from everyone and spread them all out?
Probably the biggest mistake a CW can make is using his repel abilities at the wrong time. You're absolutely right that if the tank is holding aggro, a good way to take it from him and get yourself, and maybe the whole party killed, is by using these abilities. But the tank can't hold aggro forever - and the moment he loses it, the best thing you can do is knock your opponents down, so that he has a moment to get his taunt off on all of them. Another example is at the moment that a bunch of adds spawn when fighting a boss - the CW should have a large area repel power ready to put all the opponents in an easy spot for the guardian fighter to pick up their aggro.
Probably the biggest mistake a CW can make is using his repel abilities at the wrong time. You're absolutely right that if the tank is holding aggro, a good way to take it from him and get yourself, and maybe the whole party killed, is by using these abilities. But the tank can't hold aggro forever - and the moment he loses it, the best thing you can do is knock your opponents down, so that he has a moment to get his taunt off on all of them.
You're right, a tank can't hold aggro forever. But since there are other people in the group (presumably) doing their jobs as well, he won't need to - they'll die. You must be running with bad tanks. I leveled a tank last beta, and I've grouped with several in this one, and most have no problems holding aggro. Only on rare occasions does a mob slip through and attack someone else. When that happens, a good tank immediately goes after it.
The point is, if you know what you're doing, holding aggro isn't much of a problem. The last thing you want to do is to knock all the mobs away and spread them all out. If you, as a Control Wizard, are frequently using Repel during group play, either your tank needs practice, or you're doing it wrong.
I'm not saying Repel should be completely ignored and doesn't have it's uses, it does. But you seem to be giving it much higher importance than it should receive.
0
Options
kimonagiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Probably the biggest mistake a CW can make is using his repel abilities at the wrong time. You're absolutely right that if the tank is holding aggro, a good way to take it from him and get yourself, and maybe the whole party killed, is by using these abilities. But the tank can't hold aggro forever - and the moment he loses it, the best thing you can do is knock your opponents down, so that he has a moment to get his taunt off on all of them. Another example is at the moment that a bunch of adds spawn when fighting a boss - the CW should have a large area repel power ready to put all the opponents in an easy spot for the guardian fighter to pick up their aggro.
Good post, In skirmishes i would AoE taunt mobs and casters kept kicking them back the moment i got agro on. Everyone kept running around and breaking any possible group cohesion.
Got to 33 just now, it's sure tiring
The paragorn (or how it is called) speciality is just sad - you charge it for 2-3 seconds, then it throws a ball of lightning that hits enemies for about 300 (200 base + a couple small hits) damage. Maybe it will be upgraded with perks later, but so far regular attack has more DPS (even against crowds)
Anyway, I think CW could use either more DPS or more control - if my companion falls, then fighting head on against 2-3 average enemies gets nearly impossible - stuns are too short, aoe deal small dmg, and just attacking gets you killed too fast. Some 'magic shield' would be a great addition. Solo questing is a huge pain to put it short, once companion gets knocked out, it's either 'drink all the potions' or die.
Dungeons in a party are quite good though - I have no idea how much DPW do other classes have at this point, but my regular attack does about 150-200 dmg per hit. 'Steal time' is great, mainly to speed up allies (regrouping helps alot, especially against some bosses). The stuns are also working rather good, but I think the durations need a solid rework: this is not DotA where a 2 second stun can decide the game, here everything is much slower. What is the point of stunning some demon commander for 3 seconds, if it takes about 15-20 seconds to kill him? Same for slowing - all those effects are too short, and don't change the situation on the battle field much. I'd say, let's increase all stun/debuff durations by 2-3 times, now THAT would be control
And why is there no 'mind control' magic? I want to mess with minds of my enemies so they attack each other at least for a short time - that's what I imagined when I first heard 'control' wizard.
PS For me, 'Repel' worked well in a dungeon just once - the second boss on the 'daemon'(lvl 35) dungeon is on a platform above a pit, he summoned lots of smaller mobs and I kept 'throwing' them off the plate (and instakilling them that way). In most other situations repel mostly harms the team, 'time steal' is much better
PS My 'wording' is bad, because lvl 33 CW. God know how tired I am, gotta go to sleep now
0
Options
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
But since there are other people in the group (presumably) doing their jobs as well, he won't need to - they'll die. You must be running with bad tanks...
I'm not saying Repel should be completely ignored and doesn't have it's uses, it does. But you seem to be giving it much higher importance than it should receive.
Get ready to be running with lots of bad players, and have the spells ready to make up for it... because it's part of every MMO. You probably only ever need 1 AOE repel power slotted, but for those times when it's needed (like during all boss fights, because apparently 100 adds is the only gimmick Cryptic knows), you're going to want it ready.
0
Options
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm not familiar enough with 4E to know if this is how the class is supposed to be, but it seems like cold-based spells are the only type that have been implemented for the control wizard. I know the class isn't supposed to be an elementalist but....not really a lot of variety.
Control Wizard starts to shine once you get your 4th encounter ability that activates the mastery. Repel or the single damage ice spike both hit multiple mobs.
It would be better if Ray of Frost was changed as it very much is a grouping spell. The CW shines in a party for sure. Having 4 encounter power with one being very powerful is a nice touch.
My best moment was using the Daily on the spiders in the kobold mission and they both landed on traps for an insta kill. Freaking awesome. The class isn't bad, just more difficult than the Guardian/Cleric but I feel on par with the Trickster in difficulty.
I have a CW up to level 16 so far, and I agree with the criticisms. The control effects definitely do not last long enough (especially with such long ability cooldowns), and we need some aoe controlling abilities. So far, I have none (the only aoe I have is for damage/debuff, not control).
That is the best and for most part only AoE. You can even push 4 monsters to their death from a cliff with a push of button.
It seems from as high as you got with the CW that it focuses on ice based attacks mainly then BAM, goes to only one paragon class which is lightning based. The problem is if you focused on the ice only and spent feat points, you're specced to ice and not lightning or (sometimes even) cooldowns. If you set it up to use what few controls you have (ie repel) then you are not set up for group damaging where said features don't matter compared to the other aggro takers. If you set up for damage, then you are in trouble if you are the target for damage, and it's way to easy to be taken down past level 30, especially in places with grouped multiple enemies (think imps.)
However, others skill and experience may vary.
Oh, and it has been getting feedback that it's too impossible to both target and revive (making sure they are actually up and not still dying) people.
Just dinged 30, Yeah the new power is way underpowered... I got the gist of ae with chill strike, cast icy teraign, poof backwards, time warp. and spam your at will till cds are up. drink tons of potions. cause one hit your like 25% down..
You have to port backwards when ever its up soloing..
My pet / companion is ok i guess but wish i could send in first!
i leveled in bwe1 with a trickster took 11 hours. On this char 22 hours.
Its not too much fun to play.. Group play is ok but solo play sucks.
This needs to play more like a eq1 enchanter.
All great feedback in my opinion, I have now gotten to level 22, and still dont find too much difference from my original posting...ok yes I can survive a little longer, but I have to go into dungeons and instances with 20 potions on hand...that is insane...If I am a Control, I should be able to stun lockdown, not pushback.
I agree with many here, as a wizard the first time I used the daily and it pushed back the mobs, I was like "oh $h1t" now Im going to get multiple adds and I dont have any close aoe to rely on nor do I have a stun.
Many said wait until level 25+ to see how the class goes. Well in my opinion as a beta tester (and I have beta tested almost every game you can name since EQ), this is bad. You do not want your players getting tired, bored, and frustrated with a class just because it will "eventually" get better. You want a class that can both solo some (whether it be quick kills or long drawn out ones) but one that can be supportive of party play also. As it is, wait until it goes live, I hate it when others compare games to the latest, but your average player/customer will.
And we all have been there, when in a dungeon or instance, most groups want to go in for the livability and loot. If you have a character that isnt what they want, unless you are with friends, you will start seeing forum posts about "got kicked out of a group because X class does a better job at control...why do we need Wizards??"
I dont mind the lower damage, PROVIDED we can get more control, both point blank AoE type and stuns, I dont want everything that is control based to be knockback. That to me is not control. Try going into the Tower district and do a few repels there and see how many extra orc groups and a ogre or two are now surrounding you.
If this class is designed to be a group support class that is fine, but don't expect players to be happy with the current mechanic.
I love playing casters, and once they come out with a Warlock I will go to that, but currently the Wizard is lacking.
"We know that the sheep live in denial; that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world...The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog...He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep...Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep...Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.
I got level 22 and still there is no Hypnotism(to hold for a while a group of enemys), charm, sleep or hold person.
I think you guys need to implement more Enchantment School powers, essencial for control groups of mobs.
Entangling force it's not enough.
ray of frost(I really dislike the frost powers except Ice Storm and Chill Strike) and Steal time is useless.
Ok played till 34, 1 day played total hour by hour 56 mins.
Cant take any more of that class... With the Cryptic signature multi mob swarm... LOL i quit :P Time for sleep and to decide how casual i am gonna play this... When i played the trickster rogue i loved the game very much. But trying to test this class to 40 in a weekend think burnt me out lol.
0
Options
xervaiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Demonstrated clearly here is a slow not a root. I'm trying to see if later on you can unlock the root but I haven't found it yet. The style of play in this video is much nicer than the initial experience. I'm level 25 and I can do some very powerful things, but I'm not quite seeing the same punch demonstrated here.
Well, most people agree that CW has too few/weak control, let's hope devs will improve his stun/slow time greatly, I think that would help alot.
I'm perfectly fine that it's hard to play solo, my concern is that I'm rather useless as a CW in dungeons and parties. Stuns are too short, AoE deal too small dmg (in instances enemies have much more hp, and there CW's DPS becomes really small in comparrison)
Demonstrated clearly here is a slow not a root. I'm trying to see if later on you can unlock the root but I haven't found it yet. The style of play in this video is much nicer than the initial experience. I'm level 25 and I can do some very powerful things, but I'm not quite seeing the same punch demonstrated here.
Rooting for ranged classes was implemented at a later stage - after the demos at PAX etc.
The reason for rooting iirc was that the melee had to be rooted due to power coming from legs (Zeke said that they earlier had melee who moved when they attacked just like ranged attacked while moving). Hence to be more realistic and make more sense they rooted melee. However they had to root ranged because of that for balance and reduce kiting.
It is a decision which is concept based - not a technical limitation.
I dont like the concept because even when realistic, it stops the fluidity of combat.
EDIT:
If you played at earlier PAX (or see videos of year go, E3 and PAX) the combat is more fluid because of absence of rooting for the mage.
Reached lvl35 - suddenly CW is epic.
New daily power - 'Astral something' (I'll call it 'Black hole' for short) is the best ability in game so far - when you cast it, a big black ball starts sucking all enemies in a big range(range is almost same as of 'time steal') and sort of disabling them, then pulling them up, then throwing them all down in one spot, dealing massive damage in the process (I may be wrong, but it seemed like 800-1000 dmg per target). Overall it disables enemies in the whole area for about 5 seconds(sucking+pulling+throwing) and they all end in one spot. Fun thing, that right after that my daily power bar is usually 20-40% full again(depends on number of enemies sucked).
Another thing, that the 'feats' finally seem to be turning into something cool - tactical ones allow to restore daily power charge by 1-5% with every critical hit(should have bought more stuff for crits ), so this 'black hole' can be cast much more often at this rate.
Still being paper-thin though, so if our tank misses some aggro and demons rush on me, it turns into the 'bennyhill show' with me running away from a pack of mobs
0
Options
sadistMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
This video does a great job at summarizing my experience in how “Controlling” my abilities where over this weekend’s beta.
Reached lvl35 - suddenly CW is epic.
New daily power - 'Astral something' (I'll call it 'Black hole' for short) is the best ability in game so far - when you cast it, a big black ball starts sucking all enemies in a big range(range is almost same as of 'time steal') and sort of disabling them, then pulling them up, then throwing them all down in one spot, dealing massive damage in the process (I may be wrong, but it seemed like 800-1000 dmg per target). Overall it disables enemies in the whole area for about 5 seconds(sucking+pulling+throwing) and they all end in one spot. Fun thing, that right after that my daily power bar is usually 20-70% full again(depends on number of enemies sucked).
Another thing, that the 'feats' finally seem to be turning into something cool - tactical ones allow to restore daily power charge by 2-10% with every critical hit(should have bought more stuff for crits ), so this 'black hole' can be cast much more often at this rate.
Still being paper-thin though, so if our tank misses some aggro and demons rush on me, it turns into the 'bennyhill show' with me running away from a pack of mobs
I needed a smoke after that graphic description. Thanks!
0
Options
bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Posted this in another thread. But reposting it here.
At this rate they'd be better off sending it back to the drawing board, and switching it with the Warlock. There's a severe lack of actual control. Yes there are freezes, and knock backs. But actually control? Not so much. Hell the Cleric has more control at level ten then a Control Wizard has at thirty. About the only thing they seem to have gotten right is the Storm Mage paragon path.*
Tab needs to be changed so you hit it, and it changes all your powers to the spell mastery version. Sure the extra encounter power is nice. Being able to use it on any of my slotted spells is better.
What's with all the freaking Ice? On top of that aren't Frozen things supposed to stay frozen. Until they thaw? Or the ice is broke? Am I playing a Sorcerer, and no one told me? Can I get Dragon Slave at thirty, and Giga Slave at sixty if that's the case?
I get that the Feats will effect the duration of our effects but it's so lacking at early levels, and your so weak that tower district really sucks until you've gotten a few levels in. What makes it even worse is thanks to all the knock back on your abilities pulls more groups.
Did I mention the freaking CLERIC has more control at TEN then then the CONTROL wizard has at THIRTY!
So my suggestion is to take things back to the drawing board. Change the Tab ability so instead of empowering the one spell. You hit it which activates Spell Mastery, and then you can hit any of your three slotted powers to cast the spell mastery version of that spell. Take a look at the Wizard in DnD Essentials. Specifically the Enchantment/Illusionist spells. Now that's a CONTROL Wizard. The Ice belongs on the War Wizard.
TLR: The Fricking class is Bi-polar, and is some kind of Control/War Wizard hybrid. Send it back to the drawing board, and switch it out for the Scourge Warlock, or Deceptive Warlock since you can actually match the powers to the Build since its right in the powers description.
I'll be honest, I really wanted an AOE for the secondary at will, say Thunderwave?
You know the 4th ed at will that does aoe and push back?
I'm sure that with a little bit of the KB res stacks that come up in CO to keep it from being OP it'd be a long sight better than ray of frost.
Ray of frost should be the replacement for that Ice Spike. .thing.. we have as an encounter. It should be do all the damage as a DOT and instafreeze the target for a few.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
0
Options
bongshots216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited March 2013
I leveled to 16 in about 12 hours. I had a blast. I like the approach to the Wizard. I had no problem soloing anything. I did have a serious potion habit though. I njoyed group play as well. I found that Repel is an awesome interrupt and can be used to negate damage to the party. Walls are your friend with this ability however.I would love to have Stoneskin and MAge armor at my disposal though. I think its conduit of ice that spreads the chill effect to 3 mobs was really efficient when applied to multiple targets at range. Most of the time the group never got near enough to hit me and if they did I just tossed em away with repel. Magic Missile being at will is extremely satisfying. I'm very excited for the release. I hope the end game content is as challenging as they are saying. I can't wait to see how this game grows and expands. I feel like it's off to an excellent start!
0
Options
evy1992Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
Actualy i havent found any kind of difficulty leveling my CW i can see tweeeks needed probably to the combat mechanics related to skill distace and cd, i feel a little premature to give firm judgement on the class need more time to test it to the depth.
0
Options
lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
I leveled to 16 in about 12 hours. I had a blast. I like the approach to the Wizard. I had no problem soloing anything. I did have a serious potion habit though. I njoyed group play as well. I found that Repel is an awesome interrupt and can be used to negate damage to the party. Walls are your friend with this ability however.I would love to have Stoneskin and MAge armor at my disposal though. I think its conduit of ice that spreads the chill effect to 3 mobs was really efficient when applied to multiple targets at range. Most of the time the group never got near enough to hit me and if they did I just tossed em away with repel. Magic Missile being at will is extremely satisfying. I'm very excited for the release. I hope the end game content is as challenging as they are saying. I can't wait to see how this game grows and expands. I feel like it's off to an excellent start!
I felt like that, too, until I hit 20. From 20-30, you watch a rogue dismember an opponent that you can't keep off of you for longer than 2 seconds in under the amount of time it takes for you to lock him down.
Granted, this is solo. In groups, I'm seeing clerics deal more damage while keeping the mobs locked down longer. At level 22. I know another poster mentioned you become a BAMF at level 35, but even with how quickly levels come, the frustration of chugging pots to stay up (2-3 per encounter sometimes) does make this class pretty low on my list.
There's a "shield" power later in the game. Perhaps that should be moved up as far as when you get it, because I'm dyin' here man!
I think however the "twelve hours to level 12" is a telling point.
Rogue = 4 hours to level 12.
Cleric = 6 hours to level 12.
GF = 2.5 hours to level 9 (didn't make it all the way, I'm usually not a tank-centric person)
0
Options
bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
here's my input on CW playing it up until 25. yeah, i do wish the the controlling effects lasted longer. I had no problems soloing though, because I knew how to use my knockbacks, freezes, stuns in rotation to keep mobs at bay, and then flashstep away when need be. it seemed kinda easy to me overall. in group quests, I knew what i was doing and if I wanted, could lead in number of kills, and because of my build, I had a lot of damage, so I'd come in 1st or 2nd in damage if I was trying to be competitive.
But, that's not what a control wizard should be. Maybe I could play like that if I wish, but I want to be able to build a control wizard to "control" as well. How about a Sleep spell at early levels like in D&D? An aoe sleep that keeps them asleep for a few rounds.
I also agree that its a button-mash fest overall. I can try to be more strategic in my missions. but in group missions, it really doesn't matter what classes you have at this point. In most group quests, we get everything done, with everyone using what abilities they have. there really isn't a challenge. I've only left one group quest because the players got wiped out of stupidity and got annoyed.
I like d&d mechanics where certain spells increase in duration based on your stats and level.
perhaps have tab, switch between your selection of dps and control spells.
0
Options
lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited March 2013
I think they should synergize the classes of spells to each other. Frost and arcane should work together, depending on how you use them.
For example:
build stacks of arcane (two or three seconds of arcane attacks). Then hit mobs with an AoE frost spell, and you've got them locked down for a good long time and can DPS them.
or you can go DPS route - build stacks of chill (two or three seconds of frost attacks). Then hit mobs with an AoE arcane spell, and they go "BOOM" and die.
You can even go shades of grey, build up some stacks of chill and arcane, and get both a mini boom and a mini CC. Anyhow, they need to speed up the stack building process, and make all powers work together in some way.
I got to about level 25 last night until the server booted me. Toward the end I was experimenting with power builds, trying to make one strictly arcane-mastery based, one strictly chill-based, and one a hybrid. Having a companion (whom I named "Meaty McShield" because, well, he was) and not having a companion made a difference too. I tried flopping stuff around in the Spell Mastery slot too to see what worked best boosted. Of the lessons I've learned with the CW:
- Stacking, stacking, stacking effects, either arcane mastery or chill. Or both, for preference.
- Frequent target switching seems to be expected
- You can play hybrid with the two groups of powers, but you might lose your mind. Using both the chilling cloud and the magic missile on each button, you have to remember to alternate your powers for stacking. And remember that some powers both take advantage of and grant stacks.
- However, the intention might be for you to lose your mind.
- You can build for the "they come to me" scenario: magic missle grunts from a distance to build ArcMast. Lift another grunt. Kill what you can from afar, and when the rest gets to you, Steal Time on Spell Mastery. Throw down Icy Terrrain, tp back, and start layering chill with the ice spike and ice clouds. Magic Missle occasionally to keep your ArcMast stacks. If you get adds or they're still coming for you, repeat. I found with this I relied on the Arcane side of things more, but kept the chill stacks for the immobilize moments and the extra damage (feat).
- You can build for the "keep them away" scenario: have Icy Terrain on Spell Mastery and lay it from afar, but only putting the closest mob to you in the far edge of the effect. Then throw ice clouds, lift, and the ice spike, but rotate through the targets, focusing on the minions. They build up chill much more quickly and get immobilized a lot faster, and die a lot faster. By now the non-minion is in your face; repel him back into the icy terrain and use Ray of Frost (really! You can apply it as soon as he's repelled while he's hurling away, and he will typically be still in range for it) until he freezes, then switch back to any minions you have left. If you get overwhelmed by too many non-minions, then one of your AoE dailies is needed. The "keep them away" scenario is much harder to keep working unless you have someone who can keep the aggro away. I find I relied more on the Chill side of things with this tactic, and basically did without the arcane mastery stacks.
- Conduit of Cold or whatever that power is, the tornado-y one, is disappointing. While better in Spell Mastery for the size of the AoE, it needs a real snare, or it needs to build chill faster. I feel that using that power on an enemy that's already on an Icy Terrain should reduce movement down to nearly zero; in fact, I'd prefer a substantial movement debuff to the stacking chill (although it should give one stack at least). It's also a pain to target properly, since you have to put it on non-minions to enable the effect to have any chance of duration, or it's wasted and on cooldown. And finally, its recharge is too long for the briefness of its duration. Alas, I was not clever enough to maximize this power, and it remained mostly off my bar unless I was experimenting.
- Steal Time I liked, but I didn't see all that much of an improvement on Spell Mastery, as far as the buffs go, and the duration of the buffs seemed instantaneous. I noticed the most difference with this power when cast with full stacks of arcane mastery.
- Any daze/hold/immobilize/lift power cast in Spell Mastery should break less soon from damage than when cast normally. If this is supposed to be the case, it wasn't noticeable.
- Same for the Daily powers. I didn't even really notice a secondary daze from that one spell, Oblivion? Obliterate? The giant magnetic metalsplosion. Which, heh, I admit I love.
So, it sounds like there are a lot of different impressions and loadouts of powers. Since there are not one but two stacking mechanisms to the set, I'm finding this class has to walk the line between flexibility and schizophrenia. And, oh, yes, folks mentioned the potion-drinking. I've only played this and the cleric, and given that the cleric can heal himself, I really had no basis to determine if my potion-intake was baseline or not with the CW. They're plentiful enough -- and does that Life Steal attribute cause them to drop more frequently? Because that's all I could see it did -- but, yeah, I was sucking them down faster than a Mentat on a Spice binge.
(Wrong genre I know, sorry. Daylight savings time.)
So far the controlling wizard is the class I enjoy the most. I was able to practically tank the entire storming the keep final boss just by using my control abilities. What it sounds like people are expecting that are complaining is huge DPS and infinite control. Control doesn't mean lock down and mobs just stand their taking hits. Control also means weakening and positioning, and that's exactly what I kept doing. And because of teleport I was pretty hard to even hurt, while the warriors kept trying to face tank against the boss and dying a lot not understanding what I was saying about not standing there.
It is my favorite class so far, but it takes finesse to play it. When it comes to PvP, I wouldn't doubt that the controlling wizard will probably be the best at controlling the battlefield to.
Comments
In group play its really annoying when people keep kicking back mobs. As a tank you then need to run up to them if your charge is on CD. First thing that came to me during Skirmish is why are these ranged guys even in melee range all the time?
At the earlier levels (pre 15ish) I had a "hard" time and did not enjoy the game play that much with my CW. After getting Spell Mastery and Steal Time I started enjoying it much more. I have Chill Strike as my Spell Mastery spell. Which in turn makes it a low cooldown AOE smasher. It more often than not hits for 1k+ at around lvl 25. I also like Steal Time even thogh it does take some time to cast. It's a nice AOE and a nice stun. As for our dailies, they rock imo. Many post that clerics rule more, however, I feel that our dailies are much more fun that theirs. (I have a lvl 20 cleric). If many of you would bother looking into the feat system, you cna see how much exciting stuff is in there. For instance Chaos Magic seems like a really powerful treat. And yeah, if you want pure dps go trickster rouge. A CW is atm. a perfect hybrid between DPS and support.
And btw, I DO NOT THINK that Ray of Enfeeblement sucks. Quite the contrary. Its a sweet DOT. Put it as Spell Mastery and you got a double DOT ticking like mad on the mobs. I have never died in the game on my CW. I have soloed all the content and I find the class quite strong! (except pre 15).
Guys, please don't judge a class at lvl 10. It just shows that you should not be in beta. If you are looking for all classes to be perfectly balanced at all levels you are naive. We want fun classes that are quite balanced at end game. Get to 40 and come with constructive feedback and thoughts on various spells and feats rather than just blabbering about lvl 10 experiences.
Probably the biggest mistake a CW can make is using his repel abilities at the wrong time. You're absolutely right that if the tank is holding aggro, a good way to take it from him and get yourself, and maybe the whole party killed, is by using these abilities. But the tank can't hold aggro forever - and the moment he loses it, the best thing you can do is knock your opponents down, so that he has a moment to get his taunt off on all of them. Another example is at the moment that a bunch of adds spawn when fighting a boss - the CW should have a large area repel power ready to put all the opponents in an easy spot for the guardian fighter to pick up their aggro.
You're right, a tank can't hold aggro forever. But since there are other people in the group (presumably) doing their jobs as well, he won't need to - they'll die. You must be running with bad tanks. I leveled a tank last beta, and I've grouped with several in this one, and most have no problems holding aggro. Only on rare occasions does a mob slip through and attack someone else. When that happens, a good tank immediately goes after it.
The point is, if you know what you're doing, holding aggro isn't much of a problem. The last thing you want to do is to knock all the mobs away and spread them all out. If you, as a Control Wizard, are frequently using Repel during group play, either your tank needs practice, or you're doing it wrong.
I'm not saying Repel should be completely ignored and doesn't have it's uses, it does. But you seem to be giving it much higher importance than it should receive.
Good post, In skirmishes i would AoE taunt mobs and casters kept kicking them back the moment i got agro on. Everyone kept running around and breaking any possible group cohesion.
The paragorn (or how it is called) speciality is just sad - you charge it for 2-3 seconds, then it throws a ball of lightning that hits enemies for about 300 (200 base + a couple small hits) damage. Maybe it will be upgraded with perks later, but so far regular attack has more DPS (even against crowds)
Anyway, I think CW could use either more DPS or more control - if my companion falls, then fighting head on against 2-3 average enemies gets nearly impossible - stuns are too short, aoe deal small dmg, and just attacking gets you killed too fast. Some 'magic shield' would be a great addition. Solo questing is a huge pain to put it short, once companion gets knocked out, it's either 'drink all the potions' or die.
Dungeons in a party are quite good though - I have no idea how much DPW do other classes have at this point, but my regular attack does about 150-200 dmg per hit. 'Steal time' is great, mainly to speed up allies (regrouping helps alot, especially against some bosses). The stuns are also working rather good, but I think the durations need a solid rework: this is not DotA where a 2 second stun can decide the game, here everything is much slower. What is the point of stunning some demon commander for 3 seconds, if it takes about 15-20 seconds to kill him? Same for slowing - all those effects are too short, and don't change the situation on the battle field much. I'd say, let's increase all stun/debuff durations by 2-3 times, now THAT would be control
And why is there no 'mind control' magic? I want to mess with minds of my enemies so they attack each other at least for a short time - that's what I imagined when I first heard 'control' wizard.
PS For me, 'Repel' worked well in a dungeon just once - the second boss on the 'daemon'(lvl 35) dungeon is on a platform above a pit, he summoned lots of smaller mobs and I kept 'throwing' them off the plate (and instakilling them that way). In most other situations repel mostly harms the team, 'time steal' is much better
PS My 'wording' is bad, because lvl 33 CW. God know how tired I am, gotta go to sleep now
Get ready to be running with lots of bad players, and have the spells ready to make up for it... because it's part of every MMO. You probably only ever need 1 AOE repel power slotted, but for those times when it's needed (like during all boss fights, because apparently 100 adds is the only gimmick Cryptic knows), you're going to want it ready.
It seems from as high as you got with the CW that it focuses on ice based attacks mainly then BAM, goes to only one paragon class which is lightning based. The problem is if you focused on the ice only and spent feat points, you're specced to ice and not lightning or (sometimes even) cooldowns. If you set it up to use what few controls you have (ie repel) then you are not set up for group damaging where said features don't matter compared to the other aggro takers. If you set up for damage, then you are in trouble if you are the target for damage, and it's way to easy to be taken down past level 30, especially in places with grouped multiple enemies (think imps.)
However, others skill and experience may vary.
Oh, and it has been getting feedback that it's too impossible to both target and revive (making sure they are actually up and not still dying) people.
You have to port backwards when ever its up soloing..
My pet / companion is ok i guess but wish i could send in first!
i leveled in bwe1 with a trickster took 11 hours. On this char 22 hours.
Its not too much fun to play.. Group play is ok but solo play sucks.
This needs to play more like a eq1 enchanter.
I agree with many here, as a wizard the first time I used the daily and it pushed back the mobs, I was like "oh $h1t" now Im going to get multiple adds and I dont have any close aoe to rely on nor do I have a stun.
Many said wait until level 25+ to see how the class goes. Well in my opinion as a beta tester (and I have beta tested almost every game you can name since EQ), this is bad. You do not want your players getting tired, bored, and frustrated with a class just because it will "eventually" get better. You want a class that can both solo some (whether it be quick kills or long drawn out ones) but one that can be supportive of party play also. As it is, wait until it goes live, I hate it when others compare games to the latest, but your average player/customer will.
And we all have been there, when in a dungeon or instance, most groups want to go in for the livability and loot. If you have a character that isnt what they want, unless you are with friends, you will start seeing forum posts about "got kicked out of a group because X class does a better job at control...why do we need Wizards??"
I dont mind the lower damage, PROVIDED we can get more control, both point blank AoE type and stuns, I dont want everything that is control based to be knockback. That to me is not control. Try going into the Tower district and do a few repels there and see how many extra orc groups and a ogre or two are now surrounding you.
If this class is designed to be a group support class that is fine, but don't expect players to be happy with the current mechanic.
I love playing casters, and once they come out with a Warlock I will go to that, but currently the Wizard is lacking.
I think you guys need to implement more Enchantment School powers, essencial for control groups of mobs.
Entangling force it's not enough.
ray of frost(I really dislike the frost powers except Ice Storm and Chill Strike) and Steal time is useless.
Cant take any more of that class... With the Cryptic signature multi mob swarm... LOL i quit :P Time for sleep and to decide how casual i am gonna play this... When i played the trickster rogue i loved the game very much. But trying to test this class to 40 in a weekend think burnt me out lol.
Why did they change the slow to rooted on the At-Will power Magic Missile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhk7wyhQGnw
Demonstrated clearly here is a slow not a root. I'm trying to see if later on you can unlock the root but I haven't found it yet. The style of play in this video is much nicer than the initial experience. I'm level 25 and I can do some very powerful things, but I'm not quite seeing the same punch demonstrated here.
I'm perfectly fine that it's hard to play solo, my concern is that I'm rather useless as a CW in dungeons and parties. Stuns are too short, AoE deal too small dmg (in instances enemies have much more hp, and there CW's DPS becomes really small in comparrison)
Rooting for ranged classes was implemented at a later stage - after the demos at PAX etc.
The reason for rooting iirc was that the melee had to be rooted due to power coming from legs (Zeke said that they earlier had melee who moved when they attacked just like ranged attacked while moving). Hence to be more realistic and make more sense they rooted melee. However they had to root ranged because of that for balance and reduce kiting.
It is a decision which is concept based - not a technical limitation.
I dont like the concept because even when realistic, it stops the fluidity of combat.
EDIT:
If you played at earlier PAX (or see videos of year go, E3 and PAX) the combat is more fluid because of absence of rooting for the mage.
New daily power - 'Astral something' (I'll call it 'Black hole' for short) is the best ability in game so far - when you cast it, a big black ball starts sucking all enemies in a big range(range is almost same as of 'time steal') and sort of disabling them, then pulling them up, then throwing them all down in one spot, dealing massive damage in the process (I may be wrong, but it seemed like 800-1000 dmg per target). Overall it disables enemies in the whole area for about 5 seconds(sucking+pulling+throwing) and they all end in one spot. Fun thing, that right after that my daily power bar is usually 20-40% full again(depends on number of enemies sucked).
Another thing, that the 'feats' finally seem to be turning into something cool - tactical ones allow to restore daily power charge by 1-5% with every critical hit(should have bought more stuff for crits
Still being paper-thin though, so if our tank misses some aggro and demons rush on me, it turns into the 'bennyhill show' with me running away from a pack of mobs
h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R55e-uHQna0#aid=P-Nh7IkiPyw
At this rate they'd be better off sending it back to the drawing board, and switching it with the Warlock. There's a severe lack of actual control. Yes there are freezes, and knock backs. But actually control? Not so much. Hell the Cleric has more control at level ten then a Control Wizard has at thirty. About the only thing they seem to have gotten right is the Storm Mage paragon path.*
Tab needs to be changed so you hit it, and it changes all your powers to the spell mastery version. Sure the extra encounter power is nice. Being able to use it on any of my slotted spells is better.
What's with all the freaking Ice? On top of that aren't Frozen things supposed to stay frozen. Until they thaw? Or the ice is broke? Am I playing a Sorcerer, and no one told me? Can I get Dragon Slave at thirty, and Giga Slave at sixty if that's the case?
I get that the Feats will effect the duration of our effects but it's so lacking at early levels, and your so weak that tower district really sucks until you've gotten a few levels in. What makes it even worse is thanks to all the knock back on your abilities pulls more groups.
Did I mention the freaking CLERIC has more control at TEN then then the CONTROL wizard has at THIRTY!
So my suggestion is to take things back to the drawing board. Change the Tab ability so instead of empowering the one spell. You hit it which activates Spell Mastery, and then you can hit any of your three slotted powers to cast the spell mastery version of that spell. Take a look at the Wizard in DnD Essentials. Specifically the Enchantment/Illusionist spells. Now that's a CONTROL Wizard. The Ice belongs on the War Wizard.
TLR: The Fricking class is Bi-polar, and is some kind of Control/War Wizard hybrid. Send it back to the drawing board, and switch it out for the Scourge Warlock, or Deceptive Warlock since you can actually match the powers to the Build since its right in the powers description.
You know the 4th ed at will that does aoe and push back?
I'm sure that with a little bit of the KB res stacks that come up in CO to keep it from being OP it'd be a long sight better than ray of frost.
Ray of frost should be the replacement for that Ice Spike. .thing.. we have as an encounter. It should be do all the damage as a DOT and instafreeze the target for a few.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
I felt like that, too, until I hit 20. From 20-30, you watch a rogue dismember an opponent that you can't keep off of you for longer than 2 seconds in under the amount of time it takes for you to lock him down.
Granted, this is solo. In groups, I'm seeing clerics deal more damage while keeping the mobs locked down longer. At level 22. I know another poster mentioned you become a BAMF at level 35, but even with how quickly levels come, the frustration of chugging pots to stay up (2-3 per encounter sometimes) does make this class pretty low on my list.
There's a "shield" power later in the game. Perhaps that should be moved up as far as when you get it, because I'm dyin' here man!
I think however the "twelve hours to level 12" is a telling point.
Rogue = 4 hours to level 12.
Cleric = 6 hours to level 12.
GF = 2.5 hours to level 9 (didn't make it all the way, I'm usually not a tank-centric person)
But, that's not what a control wizard should be. Maybe I could play like that if I wish, but I want to be able to build a control wizard to "control" as well. How about a Sleep spell at early levels like in D&D? An aoe sleep that keeps them asleep for a few rounds.
I also agree that its a button-mash fest overall. I can try to be more strategic in my missions. but in group missions, it really doesn't matter what classes you have at this point. In most group quests, we get everything done, with everyone using what abilities they have. there really isn't a challenge. I've only left one group quest because the players got wiped out of stupidity and got annoyed.
I like d&d mechanics where certain spells increase in duration based on your stats and level.
For example:
build stacks of arcane (two or three seconds of arcane attacks). Then hit mobs with an AoE frost spell, and you've got them locked down for a good long time and can DPS them.
or you can go DPS route - build stacks of chill (two or three seconds of frost attacks). Then hit mobs with an AoE arcane spell, and they go "BOOM" and die.
You can even go shades of grey, build up some stacks of chill and arcane, and get both a mini boom and a mini CC. Anyhow, they need to speed up the stack building process, and make all powers work together in some way.
- Stacking, stacking, stacking effects, either arcane mastery or chill. Or both, for preference.
- Frequent target switching seems to be expected
- You can play hybrid with the two groups of powers, but you might lose your mind. Using both the chilling cloud and the magic missile on each button, you have to remember to alternate your powers for stacking. And remember that some powers both take advantage of and grant stacks.
- However, the intention might be for you to lose your mind.
- You can build for the "they come to me" scenario: magic missle grunts from a distance to build ArcMast. Lift another grunt. Kill what you can from afar, and when the rest gets to you, Steal Time on Spell Mastery. Throw down Icy Terrrain, tp back, and start layering chill with the ice spike and ice clouds. Magic Missle occasionally to keep your ArcMast stacks. If you get adds or they're still coming for you, repeat. I found with this I relied on the Arcane side of things more, but kept the chill stacks for the immobilize moments and the extra damage (feat).
- You can build for the "keep them away" scenario: have Icy Terrain on Spell Mastery and lay it from afar, but only putting the closest mob to you in the far edge of the effect. Then throw ice clouds, lift, and the ice spike, but rotate through the targets, focusing on the minions. They build up chill much more quickly and get immobilized a lot faster, and die a lot faster. By now the non-minion is in your face; repel him back into the icy terrain and use Ray of Frost (really! You can apply it as soon as he's repelled while he's hurling away, and he will typically be still in range for it) until he freezes, then switch back to any minions you have left. If you get overwhelmed by too many non-minions, then one of your AoE dailies is needed. The "keep them away" scenario is much harder to keep working unless you have someone who can keep the aggro away. I find I relied more on the Chill side of things with this tactic, and basically did without the arcane mastery stacks.
- Conduit of Cold or whatever that power is, the tornado-y one, is disappointing. While better in Spell Mastery for the size of the AoE, it needs a real snare, or it needs to build chill faster. I feel that using that power on an enemy that's already on an Icy Terrain should reduce movement down to nearly zero; in fact, I'd prefer a substantial movement debuff to the stacking chill (although it should give one stack at least). It's also a pain to target properly, since you have to put it on non-minions to enable the effect to have any chance of duration, or it's wasted and on cooldown. And finally, its recharge is too long for the briefness of its duration. Alas, I was not clever enough to maximize this power, and it remained mostly off my bar unless I was experimenting.
- Steal Time I liked, but I didn't see all that much of an improvement on Spell Mastery, as far as the buffs go, and the duration of the buffs seemed instantaneous. I noticed the most difference with this power when cast with full stacks of arcane mastery.
- Any daze/hold/immobilize/lift power cast in Spell Mastery should break less soon from damage than when cast normally. If this is supposed to be the case, it wasn't noticeable.
- Same for the Daily powers. I didn't even really notice a secondary daze from that one spell, Oblivion? Obliterate? The giant magnetic metalsplosion. Which, heh, I admit I love.
So, it sounds like there are a lot of different impressions and loadouts of powers. Since there are not one but two stacking mechanisms to the set, I'm finding this class has to walk the line between flexibility and schizophrenia. And, oh, yes, folks mentioned the potion-drinking. I've only played this and the cleric, and given that the cleric can heal himself, I really had no basis to determine if my potion-intake was baseline or not with the CW. They're plentiful enough -- and does that Life Steal attribute cause them to drop more frequently? Because that's all I could see it did -- but, yeah, I was sucking them down faster than a Mentat on a Spice binge.
(Wrong genre I know, sorry. Daylight savings time.)
It is my favorite class so far, but it takes finesse to play it. When it comes to PvP, I wouldn't doubt that the controlling wizard will probably be the best at controlling the battlefield to.