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Please stop comparing NWN and NW
abloec
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I keep seeing people comparing Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter, its rather annoying. Neverwinter Nights is a single player RPG developed by Bioware, Neverwinter is a f2p MMO developed by Cryptic. The ONLY similarities are that WoTC(Wizards of The Coast) has to sign off on it and the lore behind it. Single player games are totally different from MMOs, Single player games are a finished product from the get go, MMOs are a never finished game because there will always be more content coming out for it as long as the game stays alive.
I should also state that NW is based on 4.0 ruleset while NWN is not.
I should also state that NW is based on 4.0 ruleset while NWN is not.
Post edited by abloec on
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They both have the Forgotten Realms as setting.
NWN always had a tool-set to create custom modules, actual the main story were just modules created with the same tool-set the players got.
There was always the DM console to spawn items/monsters during the campagne or change circumstances.
Players even created their own persistent worlds with the tool-set on private servers to play with each other.
Not at all, I just want people to realize that comparing the 2 is wrong. I mean when I was streaming last beta weekend, I got plenty of people associating this game with Neverwinter Nights because of "Neverwinter". These games are not similar besides what was stated above.
1. Custom Content
2. Lore
3. WoTC
Then it should be touted as the next neverwinter nights..... It was the devs and the game company's making the game that called this neverwinter nights 3. So no. I won't stop comparing them.
Looking at the op's posts I'd half to say yeah.
It's all too often I see comments akin to 'well NWN had this so this should too' and as abloec states this is untrue.
Neverwinter is a stand-alone game and has been designed from the ground up as a completely new game. It won't be as vast as NWN 1, let alone NWN 2, was at launch, but it will be expanded over time to surpass both games is possibilities.
I'm not entirely sure this thread will serve much of a purpose other than stating an opinion. No matter how many times it's stated people will still speculate using NWN as a comparison...often the same people too. NWN was a great game and I hope Neverwinter will be on the same level as NWN one day but it is important to understand some features absolutely will not be in Neverwinter which were available in NWN and some features will be added in later.
The race topic is one I know players often compared it to NWN. The thing I stressed was that NWN only had a few more than Neverwinter and that they only added a handful more in after launch. One aspect which truly baffled me was players bringing up the fact NWN2 has 80+ races when all but maybe 15-20 are community made and therefore has nothing to do with Bioware releasing them.
NWN has been ten to fifteen years in the making. Neverwinter hasn't had that luxury in development time but will have a lot more support from the developers than you ever saw from Bioware.
EDIT - There has never been a claim by Cryptic or PWE that this would be NWN3, and if any such claim was officially made then it would have been at the very start of development.
For three years they have touted the big banner stating "This is not NWN3!"
Actually I still play NWN2 to this day with friends from time to time. They are similar enough just by the name to be compared. More than the single player game exists. Also 3.5 to 4.0 is just a misleading update to resell some of the books. Nothing is really different in game changing ways for the pen and paper title.
So yeah, get some real points in to prove otherwise! Cheers
If you don't want something to be discussed on the internet, it's probably best to keep quiet about it and try and let it die. What did you try to accomplish with your OP? That everyone that came here to reply was going to say:
user1: Okay.
user2: Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't talk about it.
user3: That's a really good idea.
..............
If you ask me, this is just stirring the pot more.
That is the only Nevewinter Nights 1 or 2 expansion that I have not played through. It is certainly VERY different from all other NWN1 or NWN1 products. Much telling is that Gamespy gave that expansion score of 2.5/5 stars and I agree. However at least now many bugs are fixed and I hope you enjoy it. Baldurs Gate had great worldmap travelling but I hated it in that NWN2 Storm of Zenthir expansion... random encounter number 54 zzz....
Oh on top topic. I'll continue to compare this game as much as I want to MMO:S WOW, Age of Conan and multiplayer games Neverwinternights 1 and 2. I know it is annoying some people don't understand that this is a MMO. That said some people have not experience at all from MMO:s so let them compare to what games they know.
I have seen a hundred posts comparing this to Startrek Online. I don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about STO and I have never played that. That said once again it is natural people compare to games they know.
They chose, for whatever reason, to use Neverwinter as the base of operations but they could have used any Forgotten Realms City.
There's a certain level of similarity which has to be met to justify something as a sequal and Neverwinter doesn' follow any. The only thing which will show a form of similarity is the fact there's UGC, but that could and would have been the case regardless of which city they chose.
If they had chosen Baldur's Gate would it have made the game Baldur's Gate 3? Not at all.
The mechanics of Neverwinter are simply stand-alone with only minor references to the Bioware Series. Name alone doesn't make the game a sequal or continuation, especially when the name is simply the name of a city in a shared world. The game has been designed as a completely stand alone game.
Neverwinter Nights left a huge pair of shoes to fill, and it's one Neverwinter can't possibly dream to fill at launch although I have full faith NWN3, if it ever comes out, will have even larger shoes to fill after Neverwinter becomes fully fledged.
"I don't like this orange because it doesn't taste like this apple I had a few years ago" seems like a bad way to attempt any comparisons.
Above quote from Cryptics news site. Comparisons seem legit, to me especially when you consider the persistent worlds part of the comparison. Just because something is an MMO doesn't mean it has to be limited. NWN 1 wasn't as much about the initial storyline as it was about the whole package so see nothing wrong with comparisons.
Sigil - Planar Legends
I've strolled around their server, they've recreated Sigil in beautiful loving detail. So much so, I want to build a crude bridge between SHADOW and this server. (I am not sure how yet, my slow creative brain is still working on it).
So I think there are some comparisons that are worthy. In general, just comparing the creative forces of NWN to those of NWO is a worthwhile exercise. Specifically, noting what worked well in NWN communities could help and aid us make our RP and guilds stronger. There's a deep history here of collaboration and community here that the NWO community could learn from.
That said, comparing mechanics and feature sets is silly. The games aren't even the same animal. It's like comparing a dog to a bear. Sure they both have sharp teeth, but they are entirely different species.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
On top of that, it's a "whole new version" and has never been creferred to as Neverwinter Nights 3 even in that interview. It's a 'reboot' if you will but it's not meant to be an expansion or an addition. It's new...some concepts carried over...but the game is it's own new and original game.
This isn't something the original poster made up, this is how the company has always presented Neverwinter.
Some of you know there will be major differences yet still consider the game a continuation...fine. The important bit to grasp is if you tell people this is going to be Neverwinter Nights 3 they will have expectations which absolutely will not be met since this game's biggest tie to Neverwinter Nights is the name. The game does not, in the least, play like Neverwiner Nights...which can be a good thing...but it is easily a travesty if you expect Neverwinter Nights and this is why Cyptic/PWE has been so keen on advertizing that this is not NWN3.
Be aware that when you tell friends this is related to Neverwinter Nights without fully stating the differences (it would be easier to name the few similarities) then the ultimate result is that those people will have false expectation of the game. If they expect NWN3 then they will be let down regardless of how great Neverwinter is. Consider that when you all argue that this game is comparable to Neverwinter Nights.
Creating is very limited in Neverwinter MMO. I don't know if creating new monsters is supported in this game. However I know that player driven Persistent Online Worlds or GM client is NOT supported at all.
NWN1 had some really beautiful custom made Persistent Online player driven worlds. Unfortunately they were certainly not player friendly and driven by hardcore roleplayers. Some servers had permanent death penalty. I finally choosed a server with 10 % exp death penalty system. However I got banned for 2 weeks! For harrasing players? No because GM thought that I powergamed to much.
This time thank God, Cryptic is server holder. Community created adventures are however welcomed and you can create 1-5 player instance adventures, but they can also have outside environment like forest.
Not for races and classes. Giving power for players to create their own races and classes in an MMO is a huge no, no which is why it baffled me that players tried to compare the fact that Cryptic is only releasing with seven compared to the 80+ player designed races of NWN2. Bioware/Obsidian didn't make those and have them at release, players did, so the comparison is moot.
However, unlike NWN/Bioware/Obsidian Cryptic will be supporting the game for years to come and expanding the race and class roster.
You can customize the appearance of monsters quite far and can easily use existing models to make hundreds to thousands of different monsters using the scaling, coloing and other costume effects but those creatures will always have to have a current monster type to assign. So if you were to make a wight it might have to have the same monster type with a different costume as say a zombie or maybe a ghast.
Player Character Modifications similarly end with physical appearance. You can't upload classes and races.
Anyone who works in commercial buisness know that people like to buy things they already know and that is why instead of createing new ideas for games and trying to show people something new you always get another CoD, or Battlefield and so on.
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library
Was there a marketing reason to this, yes. Doesn't mean it's the same though. I share my father's name too but I'm not the same as him. As the saying goes, don't judge a book by it's cover?
Oh lets please not append an O. NW is good enough, NWO is both inaccurate and has too many prior uses.
I agree Neverwinter is not the same as NWN. But they can be compared, that is all I am saying lol. You chose the largest DnD world there is for the setting and a lot of comparisons will come forth. The biggest is from NWN's itself. The largest game series before this game based off the history of Neverwinter from the books and comics. Compared is not saying the same. It is saying some similarities such as location, content creation and so forth. So in the end yarrrr it can be compared.
I read most posts which are made on these forums and I can assure you I see his point quite vividly. The race issue is only one instance off the top of my head but I see a ton of general posts which can be boiled down to NWN had this so Neverwinter will too. I have seen people unwittingly post arguing it's not an action MMO and cited their experiences with NWN.
I am merely filling in the blanks for the OP, he says don't compare and to a huge extent I can agree with that but more importantly I absolutely support being careful how you compare the games. Imagine you haven't heard a single thing about Neverwinter, never read any articles on Neverwinter and then read the posts of those saying NWN is comparable to NW in this thread. That's not an accurate comparison...the game's different...completely.
The setting is the same, the story is similar, the fact there is UGC is familiar...
But at the end of the day the gameplay is absolutely nothing like NWN. The way content will be hosted and created is completely different.
So blatantly stating NWN is comparable to NW is a dangerous line that could easily ruin a person's first impression because you or others chose to falsely imply that it would be very similar...when the only thing that is similar is setting and UGC.