Is that to suggest that this is damage control for wording their advertisement poorly?
Yes it is my opinion that there is a strong chance it is. The threat of a lawsuit is crazy and a class action suit is extremely scary for a company. Just look at some of the amazingly high settlements in the recent past in the US over extremely trivial things with massive dollar amounts attached to it and you can easily see how something like this could bankrupt a company like Cryptic and make them very jumpy. It hope that wasn't too political, but I really can't give an accurate reason why any other way.
Now I will totally admit I could be totally off base and this could just be a money grab by Cryptic, but in companies I have worked for in the past when a wording slip has happened like this the legal departments fly into a tizzy.
A company I work for right now has shut down other internet companies for very similar things.
Yes it is my opinion that there is a strong chance it is. The threat of a lawsuit is crazy and a class action suit is extremely scary for a company. Just look at some of the amazingly high settlements in the recent past in the US over extremely trivial things with massive dollar amounts attached to it and you can easily see how something like this could bankrupt a company like Cryptic and make them very jumpy. It hope that wasn't too political, but I really can't give an accurate reason why any other way.
Now I will totally admit I could be totally off base and this could just be a money grab by Cryptic, but in companies I have worked for in the past when a wording slip has happened like this the legal departments fly into a tizzy.
A company I work for right now has shut down other internet companies for very similar things.
To be perfectly honest, a lot of those lawsuits are exaggerated and blown out of proportion by political pundits who have ulterior motives. A good example of this is the lady who supposedly sued McDonalds for millions after spilling her coffee and burning the skin off her leg. When really all she did was sue for 60 grand to get a skin graph.
Pretty sure people wouldn't be able to sue until the game was actually released anyways. Being in pre-production they have the legal right to change whatever they want. Even if it is an ******* move.
Well see that is the thing when I bought the guardian pack I looked very carefully over the hero one and what was offered and it said menzo race background with unique tattoo and fearie fire racial etc. No where did it say the race was exclusive
It did. It said something like "Exclusive Race: Drow Renegade" it was quickly changed like a day or something later, but it was there and if only one person bought it while it said that they are legally obligated to that phrasing.
You want to know something crazy? If an airline mis-prices a First Class ticket online from lets say oh LAX to Moscow for $1 and before they change the price you buy it. They have to honor it (there are a few legal wranglings they can do but for the most part you fly first class for $1). Happens all the time. There are whole websites devoted to catching those and capitalizing on them.
@ryger5 It's not about entitlement but more about transparency. I personally don't care as I don't like drows, drizzt ruined it for me, the less there are the better IMO lol. I still dislike how they are dealing with us.
Here is the problem with transparency. Company's can't always be transparent legally. If this is all caused by a snafu they have to be very careful how and what info on it they release.
Pretty sure people wouldn't be able to sue until the game was actually released anyways. Being in pre-production they have the legal right to change whatever they want. Even if it is an ******* move.
Not if they advertised a product (the founders pack is a product) and took money for that product as advertized.
To be perfectly honest, a lot of those lawsuits are exaggerated and blown out of proportion by political pundits who have ulterior motives. A good example of this is the lady who supposedly sued McDonalds for millions after spilling her coffee and burning the skin off her leg. When really all she did was sue for 60 grand to get a skin graph.
Not if they advertised a product (the founders pack is a product) and took money for that product as advertized.
Yes, since they took money they are now on the hook. Had they just advertised the packages and not yet taken any money, there would have been no legal offers or acceptance of said offers, making a binding contract.
An advertisement is an invitation for an offer, not an offer itself, and any responses are not immediately acceptances, they are offers. As soon as a party makes an offer and the other accepts (typically an exchange of money for goods and/or services), that offer must be fulfilled (barring specific circumstances such as diminished capacity, etc.). In short, if I were to advertise a car for $100 when I meant $10,000 due to a typographical error, I would not need to sell my car for $100 to someone who handed me the cash, because I did not make an offer. I would only suffer possible legal action if it was found that I purposefully misled customers to generate interest.
If Cryptic were to change the contents of the packages and allow no-question, no-hassle refunds they would likely get out of it relatively intact if they could show doing so was a necessity and they made their best attempt to mitigate the damage. Someone could still make a lawsuit out of it, but the courts would be less likely to be persuaded if Cryptic pointed out that they gave the option to have the payment returned in full and that there was a good reason it was necessary. The plaintiff would need to show how this harmed them, and that would be a tough sell when he or she could have been refunded every cent.
Yes, since they took money they are now on the hook. Had they just advertised the packages and not yet taken any money, there would have been no legal offers or acceptance of said offers, making a binding contract.
An advertisement is an invitation for an offer, not an offer itself, and any responses are not immediately acceptances, they are offers. As soon as a party makes an offer and the other accepts (typically an exchange of money for goods and/or services), that offer must be fulfilled (barring specific circumstances such as diminished capacity, etc.). In short, if I were to advertise a car for $100 when I meant $10,000 due to a typographical error, I would not need to sell my car for $100 to someone who handed me the cash, because I did not make an offer. I would only suffer possible legal action if it was found that I purposefully misled customers to generate interest.
If Cryptic were to change the contents of the packages and allow no-question, no-hassle refunds they would likely get out of it relatively intact if they could show doing so was a necessity and they made their best attempt to mitigate the damage. Someone could still make a lawsuit out of it, but the courts would be less likely to be persuaded if Cryptic pointed out that they gave the option to have the payment returned in full and that there was a good reason it was necessary. The plaintiff would need to show how this harmed them, and that would be a tough sell when he or she could have been refunded every cent.
I agree, however the true harm comes in the press spin and the cost of litigation regardless of the win/loss/settlement dollar cost outcome if a suit is filed.
Not if they advertised a product (the founders pack is a product) and took money for that product as advertized.
Yeah I see what you're saying now. I thought you were talking lawsuit from the people who where told they'd get drow at launch. Now I see what you mean, the people that bought the packs want an exclusive race and if they don't get it lawsuits.
Yeah I see what you're saying now. I thought you were talking lawsuit from the people who where told they'd get drow at launch. Now I see what you mean, the people that bought the packs want an exclusive race and if they don't get it lawsuits.
Yeah sorry if that was not clear. However the more info I read on this the more I think it was done as a cash grab and less because of potential lawsuit fix.
I agree, however the true harm comes in the press spin and the cost of litigation regardless of the win/loss/settlement dollar cost outcome if a suit is filed.
True, though I really do not see anyone being angry or stupid enough to try, but then again I am hopelessly optimistic when it comes to people and often am disappointed.
On a related note, sort of, some people think the fallout from drow not being available to everyone from the beginning is going to affect the game's popularity quite severely. I really do not think it will, at least not in the manner Cryptic cares about. It ultimately comes down to sales, and players who are claiming they are not ever going to play because of this, not even after the 60 days are over and drow are unlocked for all, do not strike me as the ones really into Neverwinter who are going to drive sales. To be honest, they strike me as the type who would log in, look around, then leave without paying a cent. If all they wanted out of this game was to be a drow, then nothing will hold them here when the fun of that wears off, and it will, quickly. After all, you are going to be in armour and looking at your own rear most of the time; you will barely look different, especially to yourself, from an elf.
Of course, there are some claiming they will never play who I feel simply fall into the "I am angry and I am going to make threats I will not play but actually I will play" group. These people may even shell out the requisite $200 to be a drow at release after venting, but most will just play something else and wait the 60 days out. This group's anger will fade and they will realize how stupid it is to boycott a free game and how they are hurting themselves more than Cryptic by doing so.
Anyway, I am interested to see where all this goes. I suspect Cryptic will make the drow race something that can be purchased early, and I would call that a wise move. I also suspect the furor will die pretty quickly so the next problem can be blown out of proportion.
True, though I really do not see anyone being angry or stupid enough to try, but then again I am hopelessly optimistic when it comes to people and often am disappointed.
I applaud your optimism, it is a good thing, mine was beaten away years ago.
On a related note, sort of, some people think the fallout from drow not being available to everyone from the beginning is going to affect the game's popularity quite severely. I really do not think it will, at least not in the manner Cryptic cares about. It ultimately comes down to sales, and players who are claiming they are not ever going to play because of this, not even after the 60 days are over and drow are unlocked for all, do not strike me as the ones really into Neverwinter who are going to drive sales. To be honest, they strike me as the type who would log in, look around, then leave without paying a cent. If all they wanted out of this game was to be a drow, then nothing will hold them here when the fun of that wears off, and it will, quickly. After all, you are going to be in armour and looking at your own rear most of the time; you will barely look different, especially to yourself, from an elf.
Of course, there are some claiming they will never play who I feel simply fall into the "I am angry and I am going to make threats I will not play but actually I will play" group. These people may even shell out the requisite $200 to be a drow at release after venting, but most will just play something else and wait the 60 days out. This group's anger will fade and they will realize how stupid it is to boycott a free game and how they are hurting themselves more than Cryptic by doing so.
Anyway, I am interested to see where all this goes. I suspect Cryptic will make the drow race something that can be purchased early, and I would call that a wise move. I also suspect the furor will die pretty quickly so the next problem can be blown out of proportion.
Totally hilarious I totally agree. If you ever get tired of being an optimist about people, come to the dark side, you have the makings of a great cynic
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shiaikaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
Neverwinter is based on 4th edition right? Well, in 4th edition we have the Drow AND Dark Elves.
Instead of pissing off a bunch of people who wanted to play "Drow" from the start, why not just take advantage of the fact this IS 4th edition, and make Drow AND Dark Elves?
Leave the Drow aka 'Menzoberranzan Renegades' to the Hero's who are supporting the game with their $200.
Make a reskinned Elf and call it a Dark Elf, or a Redeemed Drow, and release that at launch. Problem solved. If people want the Drow look instead of Dark Elf look (obsidian skin instead of brown, white hair instead of regular elf hair) then let them buy cosmetic changes in the C-Store.
Just make a filthy Iblith from one of the horribly lesser cities like Chad whatevs or Ust'smellies and let your betters from Menzo get back to being well better, whipping kobolds and spider racing!
It will boil down to a single character history page you really won't look at for more than 5 minutes and a tattoo which will be the same thing.
OP had a good idea.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Really? You think it's about avoiding a lawsuit over the fact that it was clearly stated on the page when I saw it that the Renegade was the only thing part pf the pack, not the actual race itself? It was a COSTUME. An exclusive. If they were doing it for lawsuit purposes, then no one would get to be a Drow ever. Try to read a little bit into the situation...
I'd rather see the Dark Elves in some sort of expansion tbh. And there is no need for a fix when it is not broken, aka working as intended developerwise. I understand why people are upset about the way it got known around the community and still think it is a cheap way to ramp up HotN sales.
Anyone should be able to play a "dark elf" at launch by picking elf as their race and giving it dark skin. That's all 4e dark elves are. It doesn't need to be its own race. They're indistinguishable from normal elves except for their appearance.
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nikkalMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
True, though I really do not see anyone being angry or stupid enough to try, but then again I am hopelessly optimistic when it comes to people and often am disappointed.
On a related note, sort of, some people think the fallout from drow not being available to everyone from the beginning is going to affect the game's popularity quite severely. I really do not think it will, at least not in the manner Cryptic cares about. It ultimately comes down to sales, and players who are claiming they are not ever going to play because of this, not even after the 60 days are over and drow are unlocked for all, do not strike me as the ones really into Neverwinter who are going to drive sales. To be honest, they strike me as the type who would log in, look around, then leave without paying a cent. If all they wanted out of this game was to be a drow, then nothing will hold them here when the fun of that wears off, and it will, quickly. After all, you are going to be in armour and looking at your own rear most of the time; you will barely look different, especially to yourself, from an elf.
Of course, there are some claiming they will never play who I feel simply fall into the "I am angry and I am going to make threats I will not play but actually I will play" group. These people may even shell out the requisite $200 to be a drow at release after venting, but most will just play something else and wait the 60 days out. This group's anger will fade and they will realize how stupid it is to boycott a free game and how they are hurting themselves more than Cryptic by doing so.
Anyway, I am interested to see where all this goes. I suspect Cryptic will make the drow race something that can be purchased early, and I would call that a wise move. I also suspect the furor will die pretty quickly so the next problem can be blown out of proportion.
The main issue isn't the wait. The main issue is the impression that was left that the drow would be available for free to everyone at launch, which is now being changed. And changed in such a manner. They weren't up front about it, they snuck it in because they knew people would be upset.
That's sneaky and underhanded, and that is why people are so upset.
Exactly, makes you wonder what else they might be hiding and not announcing in the fear it might upset us here on the forums...
Yeah, exactly. I'd been considering purchasing the packs, I just hadn't decided which one yet.
Now I won't be purchasing any of them. And both the likelihood that I'll buy something after launch and the amount I'll be spending has gone down. I don't care at all about the drow, I'd been planning a tiefling. But I *do* care about the way Cryptic/PWE chose to go about handling this.
I actually wasn't upset yesterday, when I saw the news suddenly hit the community. I thought it was a bad move because I saw people who actually were upset to the point of deciding not play at all. But I wasn't upset or bothered.
But seeing it admitted that they did it this way - deliberately obfuscating the information - that bothers me. That destroys my trust in the company. And when my trust is destroyed, so is the conduit between my wallet and the game.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Now I won't be purchasing any of them. And both the likelihood that I'll buy something after launch and the amount I'll be spending has gone down. I don't care at all about the drow, I'd been planning a tiefling. But I *do* care about the way Cryptic/PWE chose to go about handling this.
Thank you, sir, for voting with your wallet on this decision. If only more people could show this sort of will power.
sundraconMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Another possible fix would be...
1) Announce your doing a soft launch with a release of the game upon open beta applying Early Access to the open beta.
2) Run with the open beta game release for at least 60 days, with no wipes, giving Hero Packs their moment of drow supremacy.
3) Officially launch with drow making it harder for people to say you didn't keep your word about launching with drow.
Yeah, exactly. I'd been considering purchasing the packs, I just hadn't decided which one yet.
Now I won't be purchasing any of them. And both the likelihood that I'll buy something after launch and the amount I'll be spending has gone down. I don't care at all about the drow, I'd been planning a tiefling. But I *do* care about the way Cryptic/PWE chose to go about handling this.
I actually wasn't upset yesterday, when I saw the news suddenly hit the community. I thought it was a bad move because I saw people who actually were upset to the point of deciding not play at all. But I wasn't upset or bothered.
But seeing it admitted that they did it this way - deliberately obfuscating the information - that bothers me. That destroys my trust in the company. And when my trust is destroyed, so is the conduit between my wallet and the game.
The hell is wrong with you people? You're still getting drow, just not instantly. There giving the people who spent money on this game a little be of exclusivity. There is nothing wrong with that. You get Drow, you get drow free just not instantly. Stop being a bunch of spoiled little brats who need everything now and get over it. I wanted to make a Drow to. I am sad. But guess what? Its free to play. I am going to get it free. In the end, that is why we play free to play games, is it not?
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
sundracon, while I may hate you for it, you are a frelling good Spin-Doctor. You need some turntables if you're going to drop such bombs.
silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited February 2013
These are comments on some specific notions that I have seen here and in other threads. It is not a response to any particular post or poster. To be honest, I haven't thoroughly read everything posted here.
This move by Cryptic/PWE is not false advertising. On the contrary, this is the exact opposite of that. The detail page erroneously describes the Menzoberranzan Renegade as "a unique playable race". Even though it was clear to most of us from other context that this was not a race, but just a background, that is not what the page with the actual product details says. If they do not make some move to maintain the exclusivity of the race for only purchasers of the HotN pack then they would be opening themselves up to claims of false advertising.
This is not a cash grab. It is more likely to reduce their pre-launch sales revenues. First of all, there may be demands for refunds from Guardian pack purchasers who thought they could play a non-Menzo Drow without purchasing the HotN. And to be fair, there were many statements in the media that could lead them to this conclusion. Some players who would have purchased the Guardian pack on this assumption might not now. Cryptic/PWE also faces the risk that a number of Drow-centric players may not join at launch now. Any ZEN those players would have bought is now delayed. And they may lose interest and go elsewhere during those 60 days never to return. Negative word of mouth from those who somehow perceive this as some sort of slight or scam could also adversely affect the game. While it is true that there may be some players who were on the fence about purchasing the HotN instead of, or in addition to, the Guardian pack, there is no guarantee that they would make up for the potential losses in revenue. It doesn't sound like a good plan to try to make more money by gambling that people are more likely to spend $200 in light of this development than they are to just wait to play for free. No, this is not an attempt to make more sales, but rather to minimize losing what they already have sold to threats of legal action over false advertising in a product description.
Now, if the product description had been properly worded in the first place, this whole thing could have been avoided. This was a needless mistake, and they now have to deal with it. There is also nothing here to indicate any kind of deliberate deception on the part of Cryptic. There is no reason why this would benefit them. If the idea is to increase the perceived value of $200 packs they would have done this from the beginning. They would have wanted to advertise it that way for as long as possible.
And I like the OP's solution. It nicely bypasses any potential legal claims of false advertising. This is exactly the kind of reasoning that should have been applied before they decided what to do about this issue. Kudos!
This move by Cryptic/PWE is not false advertising. On the contrary, this is the exact opposite of that. The detail page erroneously describes the Menzoberranzan Renegade as "a unique playable race".!
sundracon, while I may hate you for it, you are a frelling good Spin-Doctor. You need some turntables if you're going to drop such bombs.
Heh, thanks. I honestly think its a good option for them. With no retail box to worry about, there are too many advantages to a soft launch to ignore it as a possibility.
The hell is wrong with you people? You're still getting drow, just not instantly. There giving the people who spent money on this game a little be of exclusivity. There is nothing wrong with that. You get Drow, you get drow free just not instantly. Stop being a bunch of spoiled little brats who need everything now and get over it. I wanted to make a Drow to. I am sad. But guess what? Its free to play. I am going to get it free. In the end, that is why we play free to play games, is it not?
What part of "I don't care at all about the drow, I'd been planning a tiefling. But I *do* care about the way Cryptic/PWE chose to go about handling this." did you not understand? It's not the drow. I don't care about the drow. I care about how they handled this.
ambisinisterr outright said they didn't come out directly with this information because they knew people would be upset. So now I am left wondering what else are they not telling us because they know we'll be upset?
That is why I am annoyed today when I wasn't yesterday. And that is why I won't be buying the packs. The drow delay in and of itself is immaterial. My problem is learning that they won't be forthright when they know something will upset the community. I'd been on the fence about the packs to begin with as there's nothing in any of them that I actually want, but I wanted to support the game.
Now I won't be. And it has nothing to do with not being able to play a drow.
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thecainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That is why I am annoyed today when I wasn't yesterday. And that is why I won't be buying the packs. The drow delay in and of itself is immaterial. My problem is learning that they won't be forthright when they know something will upset the community. I'd been on the fence about the packs to begin with as there's nothing in any of them that I actually want, but I wanted to support the game.
Now I won't be. And it has nothing to do with not being able to play a drow.
The same for me, my hand was in my pocket, ready to hand them $20, since I wanted to support the company for being so open and giving. I was just waiting for the next beta weekend to check the game out, see if it was worth it. Yet suddenly they're sneaking around behind our backs, lying to us about features, trying to milk us for money before the game even comes out... and I already went through that with Age of Wulin. I'm not doing that here. They either be forthcoming, and stick to their words (IE, the EXCLUSIVE DROW COSTUME, as it says in their frelling video), or they can not have my money at all.
Frankly, I'm sick of these underhanded tactics, and overcharging for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Look at Rusty Hearts. $20 for character avatars, which were just genderswaps with a few changed skills. They ended up having to give them away for free, even though they could have knocked them down to $5 and sold them like crazy. This is what I did during the steam Sale, I bought 2 avatars that ended up going free a month later! I wasn't mad though, I supported the company for making a smart decision, and making a fun game. They just have to realize STRANGLING their customer base doesn't exactly work.
Comments
Yes it is my opinion that there is a strong chance it is. The threat of a lawsuit is crazy and a class action suit is extremely scary for a company. Just look at some of the amazingly high settlements in the recent past in the US over extremely trivial things with massive dollar amounts attached to it and you can easily see how something like this could bankrupt a company like Cryptic and make them very jumpy. It hope that wasn't too political, but I really can't give an accurate reason why any other way.
Now I will totally admit I could be totally off base and this could just be a money grab by Cryptic, but in companies I have worked for in the past when a wording slip has happened like this the legal departments fly into a tizzy.
A company I work for right now has shut down other internet companies for very similar things.
To be perfectly honest, a lot of those lawsuits are exaggerated and blown out of proportion by political pundits who have ulterior motives. A good example of this is the lady who supposedly sued McDonalds for millions after spilling her coffee and burning the skin off her leg. When really all she did was sue for 60 grand to get a skin graph.
It did. It said something like "Exclusive Race: Drow Renegade" it was quickly changed like a day or something later, but it was there and if only one person bought it while it said that they are legally obligated to that phrasing.
You want to know something crazy? If an airline mis-prices a First Class ticket online from lets say oh LAX to Moscow for $1 and before they change the price you buy it. They have to honor it (there are a few legal wranglings they can do but for the most part you fly first class for $1). Happens all the time. There are whole websites devoted to catching those and capitalizing on them.
Here is the problem with transparency. Company's can't always be transparent legally. If this is all caused by a snafu they have to be very careful how and what info on it they release.
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Not if they advertised a product (the founders pack is a product) and took money for that product as advertized.
Can't discuss this here so I won't.
Yes, since they took money they are now on the hook. Had they just advertised the packages and not yet taken any money, there would have been no legal offers or acceptance of said offers, making a binding contract.
An advertisement is an invitation for an offer, not an offer itself, and any responses are not immediately acceptances, they are offers. As soon as a party makes an offer and the other accepts (typically an exchange of money for goods and/or services), that offer must be fulfilled (barring specific circumstances such as diminished capacity, etc.). In short, if I were to advertise a car for $100 when I meant $10,000 due to a typographical error, I would not need to sell my car for $100 to someone who handed me the cash, because I did not make an offer. I would only suffer possible legal action if it was found that I purposefully misled customers to generate interest.
If Cryptic were to change the contents of the packages and allow no-question, no-hassle refunds they would likely get out of it relatively intact if they could show doing so was a necessity and they made their best attempt to mitigate the damage. Someone could still make a lawsuit out of it, but the courts would be less likely to be persuaded if Cryptic pointed out that they gave the option to have the payment returned in full and that there was a good reason it was necessary. The plaintiff would need to show how this harmed them, and that would be a tough sell when he or she could have been refunded every cent.
I agree, however the true harm comes in the press spin and the cost of litigation regardless of the win/loss/settlement dollar cost outcome if a suit is filed.
Yeah I see what you're saying now. I thought you were talking lawsuit from the people who where told they'd get drow at launch. Now I see what you mean, the people that bought the packs want an exclusive race and if they don't get it lawsuits.
Yeah sorry if that was not clear. However the more info I read on this the more I think it was done as a cash grab and less because of potential lawsuit fix.
True, though I really do not see anyone being angry or stupid enough to try, but then again I am hopelessly optimistic when it comes to people and often am disappointed.
On a related note, sort of, some people think the fallout from drow not being available to everyone from the beginning is going to affect the game's popularity quite severely. I really do not think it will, at least not in the manner Cryptic cares about. It ultimately comes down to sales, and players who are claiming they are not ever going to play because of this, not even after the 60 days are over and drow are unlocked for all, do not strike me as the ones really into Neverwinter who are going to drive sales. To be honest, they strike me as the type who would log in, look around, then leave without paying a cent. If all they wanted out of this game was to be a drow, then nothing will hold them here when the fun of that wears off, and it will, quickly. After all, you are going to be in armour and looking at your own rear most of the time; you will barely look different, especially to yourself, from an elf.
Of course, there are some claiming they will never play who I feel simply fall into the "I am angry and I am going to make threats I will not play but actually I will play" group. These people may even shell out the requisite $200 to be a drow at release after venting, but most will just play something else and wait the 60 days out. This group's anger will fade and they will realize how stupid it is to boycott a free game and how they are hurting themselves more than Cryptic by doing so.
Anyway, I am interested to see where all this goes. I suspect Cryptic will make the drow race something that can be purchased early, and I would call that a wise move. I also suspect the furor will die pretty quickly so the next problem can be blown out of proportion.
I applaud your optimism, it is a good thing, mine was beaten away years ago.
Totally hilarious I totally agree. If you ever get tired of being an optimist about people, come to the dark side, you have the makings of a great cynic
It will boil down to a single character history page you really won't look at for more than 5 minutes and a tattoo which will be the same thing.
OP had a good idea.
Code of Conduct - Extended FAQ - PM me
The main issue isn't the wait. The main issue is the impression that was left that the drow would be available for free to everyone at launch, which is now being changed. And changed in such a manner. They weren't up front about it, they snuck it in because they knew people would be upset.
That's sneaky and underhanded, and that is why people are so upset.
Yeah, exactly. I'd been considering purchasing the packs, I just hadn't decided which one yet.
Now I won't be purchasing any of them. And both the likelihood that I'll buy something after launch and the amount I'll be spending has gone down. I don't care at all about the drow, I'd been planning a tiefling. But I *do* care about the way Cryptic/PWE chose to go about handling this.
I actually wasn't upset yesterday, when I saw the news suddenly hit the community. I thought it was a bad move because I saw people who actually were upset to the point of deciding not play at all. But I wasn't upset or bothered.
But seeing it admitted that they did it this way - deliberately obfuscating the information - that bothers me. That destroys my trust in the company. And when my trust is destroyed, so is the conduit between my wallet and the game.
Thank you, sir, for voting with your wallet on this decision. If only more people could show this sort of will power.
1) Announce your doing a soft launch with a release of the game upon open beta applying Early Access to the open beta.
2) Run with the open beta game release for at least 60 days, with no wipes, giving Hero Packs their moment of drow supremacy.
3) Officially launch with drow making it harder for people to say you didn't keep your word about launching with drow.
Rhun, Halfing Fighter of the Greater Weapons
The hell is wrong with you people? You're still getting drow, just not instantly. There giving the people who spent money on this game a little be of exclusivity. There is nothing wrong with that. You get Drow, you get drow free just not instantly.
This move by Cryptic/PWE is not false advertising. On the contrary, this is the exact opposite of that. The detail page erroneously describes the Menzoberranzan Renegade as "a unique playable race". Even though it was clear to most of us from other context that this was not a race, but just a background, that is not what the page with the actual product details says. If they do not make some move to maintain the exclusivity of the race for only purchasers of the HotN pack then they would be opening themselves up to claims of false advertising.
This is not a cash grab. It is more likely to reduce their pre-launch sales revenues. First of all, there may be demands for refunds from Guardian pack purchasers who thought they could play a non-Menzo Drow without purchasing the HotN. And to be fair, there were many statements in the media that could lead them to this conclusion. Some players who would have purchased the Guardian pack on this assumption might not now. Cryptic/PWE also faces the risk that a number of Drow-centric players may not join at launch now. Any ZEN those players would have bought is now delayed. And they may lose interest and go elsewhere during those 60 days never to return. Negative word of mouth from those who somehow perceive this as some sort of slight or scam could also adversely affect the game. While it is true that there may be some players who were on the fence about purchasing the HotN instead of, or in addition to, the Guardian pack, there is no guarantee that they would make up for the potential losses in revenue. It doesn't sound like a good plan to try to make more money by gambling that people are more likely to spend $200 in light of this development than they are to just wait to play for free. No, this is not an attempt to make more sales, but rather to minimize losing what they already have sold to threats of legal action over false advertising in a product description.
Now, if the product description had been properly worded in the first place, this whole thing could have been avoided. This was a needless mistake, and they now have to deal with it. There is also nothing here to indicate any kind of deliberate deception on the part of Cryptic. There is no reason why this would benefit them. If the idea is to increase the perceived value of $200 packs they would have done this from the beginning. They would have wanted to advertise it that way for as long as possible.
And I like the OP's solution. It nicely bypasses any potential legal claims of false advertising. This is exactly the kind of reasoning that should have been applied before they decided what to do about this issue. Kudos!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgLwfzBY_XM#t=0m30s
Official video about founder's packs, in BIG RED LETTERS, "EXCLUSIVE DROW COSTUME". It was posted almost a month ago.
Rhun, Halfing Fighter of the Greater Weapons
What part of "I don't care at all about the drow, I'd been planning a tiefling. But I *do* care about the way Cryptic/PWE chose to go about handling this." did you not understand? It's not the drow. I don't care about the drow. I care about how they handled this.
ambisinisterr outright said they didn't come out directly with this information because they knew people would be upset. So now I am left wondering what else are they not telling us because they know we'll be upset?
That is why I am annoyed today when I wasn't yesterday. And that is why I won't be buying the packs. The drow delay in and of itself is immaterial. My problem is learning that they won't be forthright when they know something will upset the community. I'd been on the fence about the packs to begin with as there's nothing in any of them that I actually want, but I wanted to support the game.
Now I won't be. And it has nothing to do with not being able to play a drow.
The same for me, my hand was in my pocket, ready to hand them $20, since I wanted to support the company for being so open and giving. I was just waiting for the next beta weekend to check the game out, see if it was worth it. Yet suddenly they're sneaking around behind our backs, lying to us about features, trying to milk us for money before the game even comes out... and I already went through that with Age of Wulin. I'm not doing that here. They either be forthcoming, and stick to their words (IE, the EXCLUSIVE DROW COSTUME, as it says in their frelling video), or they can not have my money at all.
Frankly, I'm sick of these underhanded tactics, and overcharging for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Look at Rusty Hearts. $20 for character avatars, which were just genderswaps with a few changed skills. They ended up having to give them away for free, even though they could have knocked them down to $5 and sold them like crazy. This is what I did during the steam Sale, I bought 2 avatars that ended up going free a month later! I wasn't mad though, I supported the company for making a smart decision, and making a fun game. They just have to realize STRANGLING their customer base doesn't exactly work.