I find it interesting how the terms casual and hardcore have been twisted to be applied as a difficulty mode. Casual means you play when you have the time available because you have a life, i.e social engagements, kids etc. Hardcore is obviously the opposite in definition, you have no life, i.e. no social engagements, no kids, etc. so therefore you can devote as much time to the game as you desire without distractions. This should not be confused with the difficulty setting of a game, and yet people do. Go figure.
Lol. I wouldn't say they have no life. They just focus their time differently. I do find it amusing when someone identifies themselves as a "casual" player who puts in 20 hours a week. Nothing you you do for 20 hours a week is casual. I think I'm spending way too much time on a game if I hit the 8 hour mark in a week. Different strokes...
Thanks for all the responses, I don't post things to bash on this game as much as it may seem like it. All I want is this game to emphasize challenging the players in a way that isn't so hard you just want to quit but also not so easy that you get bored quickly. A good way to change the attitude of newer mmo players (aka wow gen) you know the ones who like hello kitty mode would be to call them out on it. All this simply means is instead of saying stuff we have heard over and over again about other games in Neverwinters advertizements they do this instead....
Do you have what it takes? can you call yourself a hardcore gamer? Yeah that's what I thought.... Its time to separate the men from the boys in Neverwinter online! All in all a public challenge to the masses....this typically works the same as calling someone chicken. what would Neverwinter have to lose? Think about what it would stand to gain from openly issuing a challenge and increasing its difficulty.
Lol. I wouldn't say they have no life. They just focus their time differently. I do find it amusing when someone identifies themselves as a "casual" player who puts in 20 hours a week. Nothing you you do for 20 hours a week is casual. I think I'm spending way too much time on a game if I hit the 8 hour mark in a week. Different strokes...
True enough, but you got the gist of the post, which is what I was aiming for, understanding.
I would say that some games are better off for making things hard (witcher 2 comes to mind, dark souls as well). But in a game like this, it has to cater to the casual gamer. So what would be the sollution? Well, having difficulty levels seems like the obvious choice. But with the lessons learned from D3, it cannot give better rewards than lower dif.levels.
So what then? Higher XP gain? Again, this is a bad choice, since it will shorten the experience for the high dif. player. AND create envy and whining.
The only thing I can see is creds. Not more embelished, since that would start the up-roar on the forums. A tag in your name? Access to a chat-room specific for high dif. players? I honestly dont know. But I think that we need to accept that many of those that could not get past the first monster in the Witcher 2 (that blob that rose out of the sea), are going to be playin the game.
Now, I am not a super-player. It took me 4 tries to kill the blob in W2, but I read about a guy two said he had tried over 200 times over the space of 5 days, and was denouncing the devs for adding imposible bosses, and I am not even sure he was on the hardest dif.
So what suggestions do you have for allowing such players while still giving us more challange-seeking players a worth-wile experience?
Edit, oh and dont say that I should use worse gear than I have, I want to test my ability to construct good builds, and earn a feeling of progression.
I would not mind a difficulty level that is so hard that only good twich, good planning, and a good party can over-come the obstacles.
0
rohk007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
guys the devs are going to change things based on our feedback, no sense getting you underwear in a bunch...just post feedback with essence we want harder traps better trap system....
guys the devs are going to change things based on our feedback, no sense getting you underwear in a bunch...just post feedback with essence we want harder traps better trap system....
Things will never get harder in this game, I'm sure of it.
Things will never get harder in this game, I'm sure of it.
Well that's pessimistic. Who knows what the upper tiers of the game will be like.
That said I know there will be no pleasing some people. ^_-
I'm not a fan of high difficulty. I can do it, but I don't care for it in mmos. Less so as I get older, that said I hope there's content for the 'ard core l33t crowd. I hope there's plenty for the PvP folks, I don't care for that either, Just as long as the RP crowd gets some love too.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
Shade, what's going on; nice to see you over here. Btw it's Prey from the guild. My sorc is sitting parked at lvl cap waiting for some interesting content.
Things will never get harder in this game, I'm sure of it.
I dunno, they made a fairly large difficulty pass on Champions Online just after its last bit of beta, right before it actually went live, and increased the difficulty of the game rather significantly. I remember tons of people crying about it on the forums. Lots of folks were super mad, saying that the game was way too hard after the changes. I thought it was a good move, personally.
Maybe they'll do the same thing with Neverwinter, since the feedback from beta so far seems to be overwhelmingly that things are a bit too easy at this point.
Maybe they'll do the same thing with Neverwinter, since the feedback from beta so far seems to be overwhelmingly that things are a bit too easy at this point.
my issue is the way Cryptic has implemented a difficulty slider in STO. you get better loot by playing on a harder level which makes sense...but my grief is the way they did it... enemies are not smarter...the AI is the same...they don t use they power etc more efficiently...they only increased their hit points and their damages...
I dunno, they made a fairly large difficulty pass on Champions Online just after its last bit of beta, right before it actually went live, and increased the difficulty of the game rather significantly. I remember tons of people crying about it on the forums. Lots of folks were super mad, saying that the game was way too hard after the changes. I thought it was a good move, personally.
Maybe they'll do the same thing with Neverwinter, since the feedback from beta so far seems to be overwhelmingly that things are a bit too easy at this point.
With STO, though, they did the exact opposite - things were challenging in open beta, and a lot of people liked it as-is. Then, the game went live, and you could make it to max level in a week without dying once.
A fleetmate of mine made it to max level without going below half-health once, in either ground or space combat. And not due to consumables, either.
0
ashrox10Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I hope it's a challenge to hit max level, otherwise the game will die out faster as people will be waiting for content and/or rolling out foundry content every hour which will lack both quality and entertainment.
It won't be. For some reason I completely can't understand a lot of people seem to want to play games that are as difficult as watching a television show.....Hmmmm I wonder if there is some correlation there between couch potatoes and people who want to be spoon fed a game with no challenge?
I mean <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it is so easy now I got up to go feed my cat while logged in. Came back to monsters beating on me, glanced at my health and saw I was in no real danger. Sat down put my glass of water on the table and my coffee ( I had time to make a cup after feeding the cat) pulled my keyboard away from the monitor ( I had pushed it there because the cat was climbing on me) grabbed my mouse and kicked the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the 4 equal level things that were attacking me. Didn't even have to drink a potion. I think if I fell asleep with my finger on the left mouse button I might be able to level in my sleep.
Why not do the same system that SWTOR had. Add to that 4 or 5 difficulty-chats and you can find players who want to be low level and do red content.
Problem is finding the correct players to play with. It all depends on guild-support and chat support
Perhaps even allow us to create our own global chat?
Ofcourse, this only increases HP and DMG of the mobs, not the actuall difficulty.
Perhaps some system that calculates the total level, if the quest-level i considered orange or red or black for the group, the splash-circles are more frequent, and the encounters become larger, not more HP. What do you think guys?
0
lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited February 2013
Honestly, it's not going to change much after beta. Certain content (like the mid-teens bandits) will get a bit harder, but the undead will probably get toned down a bit.
If you want non-faceroll content, you'll be playing foundry content. Since you can enter any tag you wish, "Hard-core" works as good as any. Or "Difficult". Or "Group".
I don't necessarily agree on the difficulty that people are putting on the leveling for this game. There are some things which are quite difficult, but fed-ex quests are not one of them.
I remember first getting into the Tower District and getting two orc spawns on me at once as a cleric, and I went down faster than a dress on prom night. Same with a few quests late-20's in the Neverwinter Graveyard. I'm not a fan of deathlocks.
wouldn't make sense for them to throw one shot traps into introductory content where people are just getting used to the control and game play. that said, it was extremely satisfying to see some greedy ADD twitch kiddy run ahead up to a chest and set off a deadly or epic electrical trap in the old bioware game and fry himself. the old neverwinter game did a good job with traps... bring a rogue next time.
0
yellatrukMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
Yea DDO is suffering the same fate sadly. Originally it was a extremely tough, hardcore mmo. But as time went on, the casual/less skilled players cried and cried until it was severely toned down.
aww man the whiners ruined every game in the last 15 years!
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
while I would like to see difficulty ramped up with harder mechanics, more splash, more abilities. It is hard to implement consistently.
So if harder has to mean more dmg, more HP for the mobs, I will accept that. I want a challange. I proposed to "difficulty" additions in the "death mechanics" thread. But we are not discussing death-mechanics here. SO never mind that
How would you add difficulty specifically?
I would ask for more frequent use of telegraphed attacks. Either by adding the "splash" marker, or simply having an animation different from others that telegraphs it.
It all hinges on the shift-defence being reactive though. Atleast for two-ina-row usages, pref 3 (but since I have not played the actual game, I am just making guesses here).
I mean, no one is listening to the notions that either the foundry and/or end game will have some 'leet difficulty. So by all means, spin on..
Aside from that, the main game has to cater to the majority of players.
If you want a total challenge go play that game with possible perma death.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
Things will never get harder in this game, I'm sure of it.
As someone that has played other games by Cryptic, I agree completely. Also, don't hold out for any proper end game content or difficult sliders that actually make the game more "difficult". The maximum difficulty is in CO is still easy for me and I don't even consider myself a power player. I don't make the ultimate builds, only passingly effective.
Cryptic isn't known to cater to the hardcore crowd or PvP'ers. Only to very casual players.
I dunno, they made a fairly large difficulty pass on Champions Online just after its last bit of beta, right before it actually went live, and increased the difficulty of the game rather significantly. I remember tons of people crying about it on the forums. Lots of folks were super mad, saying that the game was way too hard after the changes. I thought it was a good move, personally.
Maybe they'll do the same thing with Neverwinter, since the feedback from beta so far seems to be overwhelmingly that things are a bit too easy at this point.
You have not played CO recently, have you? If you have an inkling how to build a freeform toon you can't die in that game unless you do it on purpose. This is actually one of the recurring issues that gets somewhat frequently brought up at the forums... right after chat bans and the utter lack of permanent playable content updates, plus also the no end game content after 3 years*.
For what its worth I REALLY hope that they make traps better. I was really hoping that this game would have at least some semblance of "real" D&D, and having to worry about traps and bringing people with the skill to deal with them is part of what the "Spirit" of D&D is all about. But with Cryptic its better to just enjoy the scenery and not worry about the (lack of) difficulty, or you might not enjoy the game.
*Edit: and also lockboxes and gambling, I can't believe I forgot about the gambling for the chance to maybe get access exclusive stuff
For what its worth I REALLY hope that they make traps better. I was really hoping that this game would have at least some semblance of "real" D&D, and having to worry about traps and bringing people with the skill to deal with them is part of what the "Spirit" of D&D is all about.
Good luck with that. NWO has way to much single player in it for that. Unless they just change traps for 5 man dungeons only.
Those that are saying things will never get hard/be difficulty.
Did you play far enough in the game to get to the spell plague tower part (with all the undead and teleporting enemies etc).
Yes, it was not extremely hard, but I died twice with my guardian fighter (none with the cleric or rogue...or with the GF the secon time through). I died once right before entering the tower when I got jumped by the huge gang of ogre like creatures, spell casters etc, and I did the once on the boss of that tower.
I had not died at all playing as my rogue through all that...but I still had to really shuffle to avoid death with him...it was fun and challenging enough to keep me interested.
Supposedly things are going to keep getting harder at higher levels (already been stated multiple times by devs), so I don't think we are going to worry about having no challenges in this game.
yes, well... difficulty is subjective. Some of us are very used used to mechanics like this, and we are therefore hoping for a choice in difficulty. Choice of trap dmg. But we would love to see traps hurting like hell, increasing the use of class specific traits.
So I for one will continue to disscuss this untill we get a good model worked out, or untill the devs tell us a definite "no-go". There are ways of allowing care-bearing in parrallel to winorwipe/power-gaming (casual - hardcore or whatever you want to name the dichtonomy)
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Do you have what it takes? can you call yourself a hardcore gamer? Yeah that's what I thought.... Its time to separate the men from the boys in Neverwinter online! All in all a public challenge to the masses....this typically works the same as calling someone chicken. what would Neverwinter have to lose? Think about what it would stand to gain from openly issuing a challenge and increasing its difficulty.
True enough, but you got the gist of the post, which is what I was aiming for, understanding.
So what then? Higher XP gain? Again, this is a bad choice, since it will shorten the experience for the high dif. player. AND create envy and whining.
The only thing I can see is creds. Not more embelished, since that would start the up-roar on the forums. A tag in your name? Access to a chat-room specific for high dif. players? I honestly dont know. But I think that we need to accept that many of those that could not get past the first monster in the Witcher 2 (that blob that rose out of the sea), are going to be playin the game.
Now, I am not a super-player. It took me 4 tries to kill the blob in W2, but I read about a guy two said he had tried over 200 times over the space of 5 days, and was denouncing the devs for adding imposible bosses, and I am not even sure he was on the hardest dif.
So what suggestions do you have for allowing such players while still giving us more challange-seeking players a worth-wile experience?
Edit, oh and dont say that I should use worse gear than I have, I want to test my ability to construct good builds, and earn a feeling of progression.
I would not mind a difficulty level that is so hard that only good twich, good planning, and a good party can over-come the obstacles.
Things will never get harder in this game, I'm sure of it.
Well that's pessimistic. Who knows what the upper tiers of the game will be like.
That said I know there will be no pleasing some people. ^_-
I'm not a fan of high difficulty. I can do it, but I don't care for it in mmos. Less so as I get older, that said I hope there's content for the 'ard core l33t crowd. I hope there's plenty for the PvP folks, I don't care for that either, Just as long as the RP crowd gets some love too.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
Extinction - GWF
I dunno, they made a fairly large difficulty pass on Champions Online just after its last bit of beta, right before it actually went live, and increased the difficulty of the game rather significantly. I remember tons of people crying about it on the forums. Lots of folks were super mad, saying that the game was way too hard after the changes. I thought it was a good move, personally.
Maybe they'll do the same thing with Neverwinter, since the feedback from beta so far seems to be overwhelmingly that things are a bit too easy at this point.
my issue is the way Cryptic has implemented a difficulty slider in STO. you get better loot by playing on a harder level which makes sense...but my grief is the way they did it... enemies are not smarter...the AI is the same...they don t use they power etc more efficiently...they only increased their hit points and their damages...
With STO, though, they did the exact opposite - things were challenging in open beta, and a lot of people liked it as-is. Then, the game went live, and you could make it to max level in a week without dying once.
A fleetmate of mine made it to max level without going below half-health once, in either ground or space combat. And not due to consumables, either.
PvE Enthusiast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw
It won't be. For some reason I completely can't understand a lot of people seem to want to play games that are as difficult as watching a television show.....Hmmmm I wonder if there is some correlation there between couch potatoes and people who want to be spoon fed a game with no challenge?
I mean <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it is so easy now I got up to go feed my cat while logged in. Came back to monsters beating on me, glanced at my health and saw I was in no real danger. Sat down put my glass of water on the table and my coffee ( I had time to make a cup after feeding the cat) pulled my keyboard away from the monitor ( I had pushed it there because the cat was climbing on me) grabbed my mouse and kicked the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the 4 equal level things that were attacking me. Didn't even have to drink a potion. I think if I fell asleep with my finger on the left mouse button I might be able to level in my sleep.
Why not do the same system that SWTOR had. Add to that 4 or 5 difficulty-chats and you can find players who want to be low level and do red content.
Problem is finding the correct players to play with. It all depends on guild-support and chat support
Perhaps even allow us to create our own global chat?
Ofcourse, this only increases HP and DMG of the mobs, not the actuall difficulty.
Perhaps some system that calculates the total level, if the quest-level i considered orange or red or black for the group, the splash-circles are more frequent, and the encounters become larger, not more HP. What do you think guys?
If you want non-faceroll content, you'll be playing foundry content. Since you can enter any tag you wish, "Hard-core" works as good as any. Or "Difficult". Or "Group".
I don't necessarily agree on the difficulty that people are putting on the leveling for this game. There are some things which are quite difficult, but fed-ex quests are not one of them.
I remember first getting into the Tower District and getting two orc spawns on me at once as a cleric, and I went down faster than a dress on prom night. Same with a few quests late-20's in the Neverwinter Graveyard. I'm not a fan of deathlocks.
aww man the whiners ruined every game in the last 15 years!
I know right?
We can't have just anyone having fun here.
/sarcasm off
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
So if harder has to mean more dmg, more HP for the mobs, I will accept that. I want a challange. I proposed to "difficulty" additions in the "death mechanics" thread. But we are not discussing death-mechanics here. SO never mind that
How would you add difficulty specifically?
I would ask for more frequent use of telegraphed attacks. Either by adding the "splash" marker, or simply having an animation different from others that telegraphs it.
It all hinges on the shift-defence being reactive though. Atleast for two-ina-row usages, pref 3 (but since I have not played the actual game, I am just making guesses here).
Again? Really?
no sollution to accomodate a wider range of preferences, is presented. So ignore and keep arguments to the point.
Either that, or sing "We shall over-come" in a shrill and forced voice
Thou repeatest, so thou foe repeatest, amen.
I mean, no one is listening to the notions that either the foundry and/or end game will have some 'leet difficulty. So by all means, spin on..
Aside from that, the main game has to cater to the majority of players.
If you want a total challenge go play that game with possible perma death.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
A leader of The Blackwatch Defenders
As someone that has played other games by Cryptic, I agree completely. Also, don't hold out for any proper end game content or difficult sliders that actually make the game more "difficult". The maximum difficulty is in CO is still easy for me and I don't even consider myself a power player. I don't make the ultimate builds, only passingly effective.
Cryptic isn't known to cater to the hardcore crowd or PvP'ers. Only to very casual players.
You have not played CO recently, have you? If you have an inkling how to build a freeform toon you can't die in that game unless you do it on purpose. This is actually one of the recurring issues that gets somewhat frequently brought up at the forums... right after chat bans and the utter lack of permanent playable content updates, plus also the no end game content after 3 years*.
For what its worth I REALLY hope that they make traps better. I was really hoping that this game would have at least some semblance of "real" D&D, and having to worry about traps and bringing people with the skill to deal with them is part of what the "Spirit" of D&D is all about. But with Cryptic its better to just enjoy the scenery and not worry about the (lack of) difficulty, or you might not enjoy the game.
*Edit: and also lockboxes and gambling, I can't believe I forgot about the gambling for the chance to maybe get access exclusive stuff
Good luck with that. NWO has way to much single player in it for that. Unless they just change traps for 5 man dungeons only.
Did you play far enough in the game to get to the spell plague tower part (with all the undead and teleporting enemies etc).
Yes, it was not extremely hard, but I died twice with my guardian fighter (none with the cleric or rogue...or with the GF the secon time through). I died once right before entering the tower when I got jumped by the huge gang of ogre like creatures, spell casters etc, and I did the once on the boss of that tower.
I had not died at all playing as my rogue through all that...but I still had to really shuffle to avoid death with him...it was fun and challenging enough to keep me interested.
Supposedly things are going to keep getting harder at higher levels (already been stated multiple times by devs), so I don't think we are going to worry about having no challenges in this game.
So I for one will continue to disscuss this untill we get a good model worked out, or untill the devs tell us a definite "no-go". There are ways of allowing care-bearing in parrallel to winorwipe/power-gaming (casual - hardcore or whatever you want to name the dichtonomy)