If a game will or will not be a success is almost impossible to tell even once it is released, let alone before it is.
I will say I really enjoy the combat system of NWO. The character customization could use a bit of work, and we do not know how well the end game or replay value of the game will work.
We know you can play through the game with one character and just about make level 30 in a day right now without zerging or anything (taking your time along the way). That is fine if early content is much faster, but then you run into a problem of breaking down the rest of the levels so they take more and more time, but are still fun to play through. If you can do 1-20 in a day on average and 20-30 in another day (10 hours a pop say)...then it increases in time from there by an hour per level (so 30-40 takes 20 hours, 40-50 takes 30 hours and 60-60 takes 40 hours). That would be a total 110 hours to max a character at level 60.
I'd say thats the best case scenario really for length of time with a character right now.
That is a significant amount of time, but...will it be enough time to keep people playing for many months? What incentives will players have to keep playing level 60 characters?
One method used in some other games is allowing players to re-incarnate their characters once you max them, giving them more power and allowing you to keep building your character to stronger and stronger power levels. Something like that might extend the current length of NWO as well.
Still it's all speculation right now. We have no clue how long it'll take to cap a char, no clue what endgame content there is etc.
I think the combat, graphics and theme are all great. There is tons of potential in NWO...but we can't know how well it will do long term at this point. It's all guesswork.
Want to see this game grow? Start telling Cryptic that you want to pay for races, classes, content expansions, extended features and a bunch of other things that isn't fluff because that's the only way you'll get a consistent dose of them. Just check Champions Online and its history, and see how much non-fluff, playable content that game has gotten lately.
That's garbage. League of Legends and other truly free online games profits continue to grow, while games that made you pay for tiers of content <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the bed like they had Dysentery till their only playerbase were shut-ins who can't stop playing because their only social contact was through that game.
'Pay-or-earn for features' is clearly superior to 'free-to-play but really it's just an expansive free trial and you'll have to get a subscription to get the whole experience.'
Obviously, you've never played Cryptic games before, are a little too hyped up about NWO or are incredibly naive (or maybe a combination of those).
YES! Let the customization freaks carry all the weight of financially supporting the game. Its the way of the future and obviously they're all of made of money and nobody cares about them anyway so its all good. Plus that way competetive players that don't generally care about fluff or need it as an integral part of their play experience* won't cry the oft regurgitated and meaningless anthem of MMOs "NO Pay-to-Win! No way! But customization is ok!" and pretend like cosmetics and fluff are the only things that are acceptable to charge money for, since "it doesn't affect anyone's play experience" and that way the company won't shift some of that financial burden on to them.
So its all Win-Win! (or customization freaks loose and get to carry the game for everybody else, and everybody else wins and gets to leech on the money of "rich" customization players so its all good :rolleyes:)
/Sarc
PS: Sorry, but I'm sick and tired of people pretending that all cosmetics is ok and the only acceptable way for a F2P game to make money, while other playstyles and interests get to play almost entirely for free. Or pretend that this is somehow the "best" way for a game to sustain itself--with a small portion of the game population paying for everything while everybody else gets to play mostly for free, except on the rare occassions when they do decide to pay for the minimal amount of fluff they're willing to buy.
Good luck seeing a game grow like that because game companies have NO incentive to develop things they aren't going to sell/get pay for (who wants to work for free anyway?). Cosmetics as the only (or primary) means of a game making money are not only unfair to the people that prefer that type of content (yes, there are people like that, and its not just something "rich" people with "disposable" income love to blow their money on), but also ultimately detrimental to the game's development. So cosmetics and fluff as the only means of a game making money lead inevitably to stagnation.
Want to see this game grow? Start telling Cryptic that you want to pay for races, classes, content expansions, extended features and a bunch of other things that isn't fluff because that's the only way you'll get a consistent dose of them. Just check Champions Online and its history, and see how much non-fluff, playable content that game has gotten lately.
PS-2: NWO's success will ride on the effectiveness of the Foundry as a storytelling and UGC tool, since its the only thing it really has on other games. Including its ability to be adaptive for various playstyles, including casual leveling, end game content, RP and PvP.
*yes, cosmetic items are an integral part of the play experience of customization-focused players, RP'ers and people that like to play dress up. Its not "unnecessary", they (we) need it to enjoy the things we like about the game.
I would only pay for non-basic races and classes.Basic races and clases should be free in my opinion. There are what like 28 classes, divide that into 2-4 versions and you have 56-112 classes to be added so Im guessing having so lets say 11 of the classes are free(divided into 2 classes except the ranger which would have 3) that is 25 free classes and at least 34 other classes( after dividing the classes into the different roles), which could be for sale. Also if you took all the base races and included drow as free races, you would have around 22 playable 4th edition races that could be for sale + about 50 other non 4th edition playable races.
I would only pay for non-basic races and classes.Basic races and clases should be free in my opinion. There are what like 28 classes, divide that into 2-4 versions and you have 56-112 classes to be added so Im guessing having so lets say 11 of the classes are free(divided into 2 classes except the ranger which would have 3) that is 25 free classes and at least 34 other classes( after dividing the classes into the different roles), which could be for sale. Also if you took all the base races and included drow as free races, you would have around 22 playable 4th edition races that could be for sale + about 50 other non 4th edition playable races.
I'm with you on the basic classes being free Deathssickle. In fact, I love the suggestions by a few posters that the game be free except for cosmetics and special classes etc. I think more people would support a game like that personally, and I would happily spend more money if I was doing it by choice, to support a great game, then if I was having to do so in order to play the game. Not a ton more, but I'd spend more to help compensate for those who didn't..but still played and enjoyed the game.
I'm a bit worried though because the founders packs seem to hint on a more "pay for content" setup. If there is NO pay for content...then that is great, but if there is pay for content and it's really cheap to purchase then the founders packs are a really bad deal and people are going to get upset. The founders packs have a perhaps arbitrary value given to them, and that value is very high. That is worrisome since it tends to make people think content such as character slots, races, classes etc are going to be quite expensive.
I agree, more character customization would be GREAT. It's something I really enjoy in any game I play, and something I would love too see more of. I was even put off on the game at first because of this (combined with the extreme easy difficulty to start).
A few things won me over fairly fast though:
Combat is a blast. Once you get past the newbie levels you have to start using skills, dodging (or blocking as GF but I don't really like that class) and positioning to win fights. It's a blast doing so and even on top of just winning fights you can try to use as few (or no) potions to challenge yourself. As a rogue I could take on quite a large number of enemies and never heal at all (was a blast).
Companions (get them around lvl 17), add more customization. you choose which companion you get, and you can boost their abilities a bit with EQ...this makes each character setup a bit more unique.
Fast pace: You start moving faster (Even without a horse) the longer you play the game and quickly get to the point where there is little to no downtime between quests. There is little to no "filler" that so many MMOs like to put in their games to make them last longer. While your playing NWO.....your PLAYING NWO. Of the 12-14 hours I got to play the game, I was in combat over 90% of the time. I havn't had combat ratios like that since I played text based online games (MUDS)...where I would often have over 95% of my time in combat.
Customization is important. I think we have made that clear on the boards (Although now to think about it..there isn't a thread about it on the front page...and it is a big issue) but NWO has alot going for it and more customization options in the future (paragon paths make each class split into 3 different setups as well eventually...so each base class ends up having 3 different ways you can build them, and a nice selection of companions on top of that...giving at least 15 choices over all...already).
More classes etc are coming as well....soon after release from what we have heard. I hope we get more options on defining our starting stats, and maybe since stats don't seem to make a HUGE deal....allow us to increase them at level ups more often (every 5 levels instead of 10 for instance). More ways to make our characters stand out from other players will certainly be nice to have, but it isn't a game breaker....not in an action style RPG like this at least.
it will succeed if there is a henchman system allowing you to play through custom content solo... otherwise it won't I don't think. you can't spend time worrying if everybody is reading dialogue, paying attention to story, and heading off in different directions... it just won't work.
Actually Neverwinter didn't learn any of the mistakes from other games as it has those same mistakes being repeated, but that is subjective as to what those mistakes are.
About the only saving grace for Neverwinter is it's Foundry and that too will be tested, everything else is just an MMO bastardization of a much loved IP. To those this is just another themepark MMO with a D&D skin. Regardless, Neverwinter has MUCH to prove and wait a month or two post launch before trumping it's supposed success. Every new shiney MMO fanbois trump this same tune and then fall flat on their face later on.
So you haven't even played beta and already think it will succeed? Yeah... creditable source.
From the things I have seen, I am liking this game. Cryptic does make beautiful worlds and I love their gameplay set up, it is very user friendly. When STO went f2p, they took the xp system, in which you can already go to end game content within a month of hardcore playing to a matter of a week, into a super xp system and then you get a number of players who do not know their characters and abilities in the end game content which in turn creates horrible pugging. I am hoping that the devs slowed down leveling.
Why neverwinter will be a fail :
1) f2p cashshop
2) just another random heroic fantasy themepark that could as well has been called "the chronicles of jobob"
3) as a random themepark, must fight to attract players and keep them from all the f2p or ppm themepark on the market, some of them beeing really interesting with enormous content and finely polished.
4) nwo aims the wrong category of players, those who can't stay long on a game, those who want everything and want it quick, those who could be described as the fast food manga console generation. Those young euphoric people will leave as soon as they get bored, wich could happen very quick, and try the new blockbusters arriving, like TESO. Aiming the nwn1&2 + baldur's gate + planescape torment fanbase would have brought faithfull players that would have invest themselves deeply in the game.
5) players feeling fooled by the d&d and neverwinter logo that will tell the others to avoid it.
i hope i am wrong, and wish neverwinter online the best.
Obviously, you've never played Cryptic games before, are a little too hyped up about NWO or are incredibly naive (or maybe a combination of those).
YES! Let the customization freaks carry all the weight of financially supporting the game. Its the way [...]
/Sarc
PS: Sorry, but I'm sick and tired of people pretending that all cosmetics is ok [...]
*yes, cosmetic items are an integral part of the play experience of customization-focused players, RP'ers and people that like to play dress up. Its not "unnecessary", they (we) need it to enjoy the things we like about the game.
First off, League of Legends profit does not come from skins alone. It comes from a community that buys champions for Riot Points as well, sending gifts and trading skins as well. This means people are using money every time a new champion comes a long and making unique offers to people that attend major events which then again can be traded, sold etc to other players. That's because it is easy and accessable. You can buy any champion for ingame currency, but also for real life money.
That's what they should do. Make things easier through buying things for real life money, not buying power for real life money.
Why you say? Because it brings so much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> between players, the community and the developers and mostly because it doesn't help with making the game positive, rather than negative. So a discussion like this, is BS for the game. Let them do whatever they want and give feedback afterwards.
PS: I'm sick and tired of people who needs to feel like their opinion matters more than others and the need to talk aggressively towards that opinion by bullying theirs into everyone else.
That's garbage. League of Legends and other truly free online games profits continue to grow, while games that made you pay for tiers of content <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the bed like they had Dysentery till their only playerbase were shut-ins who can't stop playing because their only social contact was through that game.
'Pay-or-earn for features' is clearly superior to 'free-to-play but really it's just an expansive free trial and you'll have to get a subscription to get the whole experience.'
I haven't played League of Legends but from what I understand it is a completely different game. And what may work for one game and its company does not necessarily work for everyone else.
I never mentioned subscriptions or making the game a "free trial". I'm talking about "pay for features" and expansions beyond just pure fluff rather than money pinching a SINGLE demographic out of the multitude that leech on a F2P game without paying, as the "pay-for-cosmetics" style of F2P model encourages. A full game with all the essential features you need to play, sans a few features that get added over time and you have to pay for is not a free trial, it is a full F2P game with modular features you pay to get access for.
Targetting a single MMO demongraphic to carry the game's finiancial support so that others can play without paying is nonsense. Cosmetics are not what "rich people with lots disposable income" like. They are a single digital commodity, out of a multitude of digital goods or services that can be desirable and potentially be monetized in a game, that SOME players regardless of their socioeconomic status may enjoy.
F2P and microtransaction driven games should target players from ALL play styles and interests--not just the ones playing dressup. EVERYONE that plays a game should pitch in. Games are not a life necessity; they are a frivolous, leisure activity. People don't NEED to play games, so a single demographic perceived as having "disposable" income shouldn't have to carry the entire burden of financially supporting the company so that leeches that don't want to pay for the features they do want and would otherwise pay for can get to play for free.
PS: I'm sick and tired of people who needs to feel like their opinion matters more than others and the need to talk aggressively towards that opinion by bullying theirs into everyone else.
When I'm the one expected to pay for everything my opinion does (objectively) matter more than everyone else's, cuz I'm the one paying the rent.
this game will great to play 1 year or bit more after that pwe will kill it like all their games ,they all games were great after coming but after year or bit more they just starting to put cash grabs expansion in them and they kill them ,then games start to loose player base until become ghost towns as they are now,looks like next sto expansion will kill sto to which was their only game which didnt lose players,since they will ad gear power up system there with new expansion and new stuff to ppl who pays gold
That's garbage. League of Legends and other truly free online games profits continue to grow, while games that made you pay for tiers of content <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the bed like they had Dysentery till their only playerbase were shut-ins who can't stop playing because their only social contact was through that game.
'Pay-or-earn for features' is clearly superior to 'free-to-play but really it's just an expansive free trial and you'll have to get a subscription to get the whole experience.'
Actually, they make quite a bit of coin off of their champion releases. Sure most buy with IP, but many also pay in cold hard cash, so no, in LoL people still pay for content, and so content is made to address that market. Sorry, but your comparison doesn't hold.
Comments
I will say I really enjoy the combat system of NWO. The character customization could use a bit of work, and we do not know how well the end game or replay value of the game will work.
We know you can play through the game with one character and just about make level 30 in a day right now without zerging or anything (taking your time along the way). That is fine if early content is much faster, but then you run into a problem of breaking down the rest of the levels so they take more and more time, but are still fun to play through. If you can do 1-20 in a day on average and 20-30 in another day (10 hours a pop say)...then it increases in time from there by an hour per level (so 30-40 takes 20 hours, 40-50 takes 30 hours and 60-60 takes 40 hours). That would be a total 110 hours to max a character at level 60.
I'd say thats the best case scenario really for length of time with a character right now.
That is a significant amount of time, but...will it be enough time to keep people playing for many months? What incentives will players have to keep playing level 60 characters?
One method used in some other games is allowing players to re-incarnate their characters once you max them, giving them more power and allowing you to keep building your character to stronger and stronger power levels. Something like that might extend the current length of NWO as well.
Still it's all speculation right now. We have no clue how long it'll take to cap a char, no clue what endgame content there is etc.
I think the combat, graphics and theme are all great. There is tons of potential in NWO...but we can't know how well it will do long term at this point. It's all guesswork.
That's garbage. League of Legends and other truly free online games profits continue to grow, while games that made you pay for tiers of content <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> the bed like they had Dysentery till their only playerbase were shut-ins who can't stop playing because their only social contact was through that game.
'Pay-or-earn for features' is clearly superior to 'free-to-play but really it's just an expansive free trial and you'll have to get a subscription to get the whole experience.'
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
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I'm with you on the basic classes being free Deathssickle. In fact, I love the suggestions by a few posters that the game be free except for cosmetics and special classes etc. I think more people would support a game like that personally, and I would happily spend more money if I was doing it by choice, to support a great game, then if I was having to do so in order to play the game. Not a ton more, but I'd spend more to help compensate for those who didn't..but still played and enjoyed the game.
I'm a bit worried though because the founders packs seem to hint on a more "pay for content" setup. If there is NO pay for content...then that is great, but if there is pay for content and it's really cheap to purchase then the founders packs are a really bad deal and people are going to get upset. The founders packs have a perhaps arbitrary value given to them, and that value is very high. That is worrisome since it tends to make people think content such as character slots, races, classes etc are going to be quite expensive.
There is a ton of good stuff in the game already.
I agree, more character customization would be GREAT. It's something I really enjoy in any game I play, and something I would love too see more of. I was even put off on the game at first because of this (combined with the extreme easy difficulty to start).
A few things won me over fairly fast though:
Combat is a blast. Once you get past the newbie levels you have to start using skills, dodging (or blocking as GF but I don't really like that class) and positioning to win fights. It's a blast doing so and even on top of just winning fights you can try to use as few (or no) potions to challenge yourself. As a rogue I could take on quite a large number of enemies and never heal at all (was a blast).
Companions (get them around lvl 17), add more customization. you choose which companion you get, and you can boost their abilities a bit with EQ...this makes each character setup a bit more unique.
Fast pace: You start moving faster (Even without a horse) the longer you play the game and quickly get to the point where there is little to no downtime between quests. There is little to no "filler" that so many MMOs like to put in their games to make them last longer. While your playing NWO.....your PLAYING NWO. Of the 12-14 hours I got to play the game, I was in combat over 90% of the time. I havn't had combat ratios like that since I played text based online games (MUDS)...where I would often have over 95% of my time in combat.
Customization is important. I think we have made that clear on the boards (Although now to think about it..there isn't a thread about it on the front page...and it is a big issue) but NWO has alot going for it and more customization options in the future (paragon paths make each class split into 3 different setups as well eventually...so each base class ends up having 3 different ways you can build them, and a nice selection of companions on top of that...giving at least 15 choices over all...already).
More classes etc are coming as well....soon after release from what we have heard. I hope we get more options on defining our starting stats, and maybe since stats don't seem to make a HUGE deal....allow us to increase them at level ups more often (every 5 levels instead of 10 for instance). More ways to make our characters stand out from other players will certainly be nice to have, but it isn't a game breaker....not in an action style RPG like this at least.
About the only saving grace for Neverwinter is it's Foundry and that too will be tested, everything else is just an MMO bastardization of a much loved IP. To those this is just another themepark MMO with a D&D skin. Regardless, Neverwinter has MUCH to prove and wait a month or two post launch before trumping it's supposed success. Every new shiney MMO fanbois trump this same tune and then fall flat on their face later on.
So you haven't even played beta and already think it will succeed? Yeah... creditable source.
1) f2p cashshop
2) just another random heroic fantasy themepark that could as well has been called "the chronicles of jobob"
3) as a random themepark, must fight to attract players and keep them from all the f2p or ppm themepark on the market, some of them beeing really interesting with enormous content and finely polished.
4) nwo aims the wrong category of players, those who can't stay long on a game, those who want everything and want it quick, those who could be described as the fast food manga console generation. Those young euphoric people will leave as soon as they get bored, wich could happen very quick, and try the new blockbusters arriving, like TESO. Aiming the nwn1&2 + baldur's gate + planescape torment fanbase would have brought faithfull players that would have invest themselves deeply in the game.
5) players feeling fooled by the d&d and neverwinter logo that will tell the others to avoid it.
i hope i am wrong, and wish neverwinter online the best.
First off, League of Legends profit does not come from skins alone. It comes from a community that buys champions for Riot Points as well, sending gifts and trading skins as well. This means people are using money every time a new champion comes a long and making unique offers to people that attend major events which then again can be traded, sold etc to other players. That's because it is easy and accessable. You can buy any champion for ingame currency, but also for real life money.
That's what they should do. Make things easier through buying things for real life money, not buying power for real life money.
Why you say? Because it brings so much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> between players, the community and the developers and mostly because it doesn't help with making the game positive, rather than negative. So a discussion like this, is BS for the game. Let them do whatever they want and give feedback afterwards.
PS: I'm sick and tired of people who needs to feel like their opinion matters more than others and the need to talk aggressively towards that opinion by bullying theirs into everyone else.
I haven't played League of Legends but from what I understand it is a completely different game. And what may work for one game and its company does not necessarily work for everyone else.
I never mentioned subscriptions or making the game a "free trial". I'm talking about "pay for features" and expansions beyond just pure fluff rather than money pinching a SINGLE demographic out of the multitude that leech on a F2P game without paying, as the "pay-for-cosmetics" style of F2P model encourages. A full game with all the essential features you need to play, sans a few features that get added over time and you have to pay for is not a free trial, it is a full F2P game with modular features you pay to get access for.
Targetting a single MMO demongraphic to carry the game's finiancial support so that others can play without paying is nonsense. Cosmetics are not what "rich people with lots disposable income" like. They are a single digital commodity, out of a multitude of digital goods or services that can be desirable and potentially be monetized in a game, that SOME players regardless of their socioeconomic status may enjoy.
F2P and microtransaction driven games should target players from ALL play styles and interests--not just the ones playing dressup. EVERYONE that plays a game should pitch in. Games are not a life necessity; they are a frivolous, leisure activity. People don't NEED to play games, so a single demographic perceived as having "disposable" income shouldn't have to carry the entire burden of financially supporting the company so that leeches that don't want to pay for the features they do want and would otherwise pay for can get to play for free.
EDIT:
When I'm the one expected to pay for everything my opinion does (objectively) matter more than everyone else's, cuz I'm the one paying the rent.
Zomg a troll. Run!!!!!
Actually, they make quite a bit of coin off of their champion releases. Sure most buy with IP, but many also pay in cold hard cash, so no, in LoL people still pay for content, and so content is made to address that market. Sorry, but your comparison doesn't hold.