I think it's worth mentioning that the complaint I ACTUALLY see the most of is that the game is too easy.
The only time I ever saw anyone go down was during the battle with the main boss of the Cloak Tower, and I never saw a party wipe there.
I don't think I ever saw anyone die outside of that one battle.
Well you're going to want to squash that complaint wherever you see it - this is a cash shop game, and unless you want to be buying loads of hp potions off the cash shop all through your game experience, my advice is stop complaining.
THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
IMO the number 1 complaint is 5 predetermined classes at launch. Since Cryptic made Champions Online, I would have expected more freedom in choosing my character. For example, if I want to play as a Trickster Rogue, then I would have to roll a Rogue and then train into a Trickster Rogue. Would have liked it to be 4 main classes (Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Rogue) and a bunch of sub-classes (Trickster Rogue, Paladin, Monk, etc)
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quorforgedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They clearly explained why they added rooted combat, the game was too easy, they couldnt design a single challenging encounter because you could always get away, especially the ranged classes. they were never in dangerous when fighting.
I can see needing rooting for Ranged attacks, or at least a slowed run speed, to prevent kiting. I don't see a meaningful challenge reason for melee combat. If you can hit the enemy, the enemy can always hit you back, as long as attack ranges are reasonable. Being unrooted does help with dealing with multiple enemies, because you can keep some off you while attacking others, but it takes skill to do that well.
The rooted combat forces you to choose between finishing tat attack, or blocking/dodging/blinking out of the enemy attack.
Actually, rooting is tangential to this specific example. Rooting is about whether you can move conventionally around while attacking. Blocking and dodging are abilities that I wouldn't expect to be usable while attacking (at least not normal attacks) even in a game without rooting. And in fact, my understanding is that we do not have choice over "finishing" attacks, since we can't interrupt attack animations to block or dodge.
Rooting does force you to choose between repositioning yourself, or attacking.
Its called strategy, perhaps its time to embrace it as a pro, instead of a con.
With rooting: make a choice between repositioning or attacking. Most of the time, this choice is obvious. You only reposition if there is some very clear advantage to doing so.
Without rooting, but with weaker attacks while moving: still a choice between moving+attacking, and attacking, but the choice is less obvious. There are likely to be more situations where either choice is debatable.
In addition, rooting makes the controls more difficult and unforgiving, which increases challenge, but not in a fun way, thus making it harder to play according to a coherent strategy. If you queue up one more attack than you meant to (say because you were holding the mouse button down), and are swinging at the air because the monster walked past you during your long attack animation, it's frustrating. It's a greater disconnect between player intent, and what actually happens. You're stuck swinging at the air because of animation and programming limitations, not because it makes any intuitive sense.
Ive read a lot of good, and bad write ups about this game. Watched a ton of play through videos, and been in more forum discussions that I like to admit about the game.
Out of it all, the number 1 gripe about the game seems to be:
1. Animation/Combat lock, preventing you from moving while attacking.
Was this "Feature" intentional? Was it an attempt to mimic the "Move, then attack" rules from the pen/paper game? Is it a technical roadblock that prevents it from working different? Was it a design decision to prevent abuse of the more action oriented system? Maybe Cryptic has spoken up about this already, I havent been able to find anything regarding it.
It does seem like a feature that will drive a lot of potential customers/players away from the game though. A Free 2 play games main goal should be to make players WANT to keep playing the game, not to have elements that frustrate and annoy them making them want to stop.
Id be interested in hearing peoples opinions who actually got to play and experience this mechanic, and how they felt about it.
Game reviews have been a joke for 10 years now. You can't take any of them seriously.
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scopeblsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited February 2013
Personally I think it's a choice that works.
That said the game could do with a rise in the difficulty level.
Although people seem to have forgotten that while levelling was raised and difficulty wasn't touched, that inherently makes the game slightly easier as you can potentially gain levels sooner in a combat zone than expected and thereby have access to greater skills than intended (assuming that assessment of certain informative posts is correct).
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koreannusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited February 2013
I wouldn't complain about a feature without at least try it, cause everything is a matter of self preference, actually I like the gameplay it remember me games like god of war, prince of persia (just remember its not the same thing indeed)
Things I would like to see are some "grab" animations or, in the case of rogue ,"finishers" and toss stuff with telekinesis being a mage, since this game have some physics
I agree with change the facing while attacking though...
... However, the dodge roll really need to be looked at. It is more important to be able to dodge immediately (even if it interrupts the attack) than to have an attack animation finish and THEN dodge.
What needs to be looked at? The dodge already interrupts the attack.
The difficulty thus far is too easy and the telegraphed attacks from the monsters that hit hard enough to hurt are the only real threat. You already have a few options here: Your defensive maneuver (Shield Blocking, Rolling out of the way) and once in a while you can walk right out of the telegraphed attack as well. In fact one of the stats in this game increases your movement speed so it may appear to be easier late game to accomplish this. If you make the attack non-rooted I see a few problems. Tanks don't tank so well, (Better to just kite and avoid taking damage all together.) The Foundry while pretty darn polished, is far from perfect. We encountered a few problem during the beta where we were kiting monsters and able to glitch them into locations where they could not retaliate. Without the rooting combat this problem becomes a bigger one.
And finally the solid blow-to-blow gameplay really feels good. I had a hafling Guardian Fighter go toe to toe with Ogres and Blocking on time was a nice dynamic to those fights. It would be cool to see that kind of character darting around to avoid the attacks (And at times I was able to do this) but enable this too much and it takes away from the experience.
My biggest gripe and the one i've seen complained about often is the lack of customization. Choose a race, it gives you passive abilities, Choose some feats for more passive abilities. Choose gear for passive stat gains. You do choose your at-will, Encounter and Daily powers as well as your Paragon path and pet and these do allow some variation. But more choices would be better.
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castagyreMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
To tell you the honest to God's truth. I havent even noticed it. I was worried about how melee classes would run in this game. But after running through the trickster rogue and the guardian warrior. I have no more concerns. My #1 complaint is, why cant I be playing nao!
I'm not sure this was the #1 complaint, I'd say character classes and customization took the cake.
One thing you mention is when dodging, there is a pause before and after, I will say to Cryptic, please think of getting rid of those pauses and make it smooth. A certain other game does it right, it's smooth and it does add to combat. Another certain other game has a pause after it's done, it so painful it ruins using it as an option. So I'm all for right into the roll and right out of the roll and keeping momentum.
I absolutely love returning to rooted action combat. After the Secret World and Guild Wars 2 it felt great to have a bit of oomph behind my combat animations. I don't miss it at all thanks to leap/rush attacks and active dodge, which make you feel really agile still. Should the feeling of the animations matter? Up to you, but for me, hell yes!
NB: I did hate being rooted for the rogues dagger throw. That felt wrong, I should be throwing daggers on the fly. I suspect removing rooting for specific attacks would quickly lead to imbalance however. On balance though, love it love it love it!
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fractalprismMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited February 2013
Wait...you CANT move while attacking?
Dont get me wrong, the attack and collision animations look great, and its a fantastic draw to the game, but being forced to stand still like two muppets that came out of a clock, only to take turns smacking each other with hammers?
that sounds so....static and boring, like a turn based combat jrpg (barf...)
i was excited by the 'you can interrupt most attacks with a dodge move' mechanic...now im a bit confused as to how it all works in practice.
This is a superb reply to this issue, as the topic is covered well. Even if you don't agree with Cryptic's decision, the video starting at 31:10 makes clear why the decision was made, for better or for worse.
For the record, I like GW2's very fluid combat style, but I am intrigued with the idea that there's tactical decisions to be made about where you place your character in a fight. This has a *little* bit of a miniature's style combat tactic to it, that I think might really be fun.
SHADOW - A secret cabal for those who thirst for wealth and power. Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Dont get me wrong, the attack and collision animations look great, and its a fantastic draw to the game, but being forced to stand still like two muppets that came out of a clock, only to take turns smacking each other with hammers?
that sounds so....static and boring, like a turn based combat jrpg (barf...)
i was excited by the 'you can interrupt most attacks with a dodge move' mechanic...now im a bit confused as to how it all works in practice.
You can't move during an animation, but you're still very fluid. On my guardian fighter I often chose to flank a big baddy during their tell, instead of blocking. Rogue bounces around like a pinball. You can totally interrupt a long animation with a dodge. I never felt like I was standing there trading blows.
1. Animation/Combat lock, preventing you from moving while attacking.
This is actually one of the few things mentioned that will help make it more playable with lag. Especially for PvP. I'm sure someone else has already mentioned how it gives weight to the animations and makes the combat feel less floaty.
Actually you don't feel very grounded, even with this mechanic in place. If you have to block or dodge, your combat action is interrupted immediately und you can get away at once so you don't actually feel "rooted in place".
Because of the "rooted" mechanic combat don't feels too floaty and hectic. It adds some commitment and weight to your strikes. I think it feels very good.
This is actually my biggest gripe with the game so far. Playing a Guardian Fighter it was extremely annoying. Not being able to move to dodge an attack and being stuck in place sucked. I wish it would just cancel your attack and let you move. I am not saying allow people to move and attack, just that if you try to move while the attack animation if going off cancel the attack and let the character move.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited February 2013
Funny thing, playing my rogue, I didn't feel "rooted". I felt highly mobile, with some attacks keeping me in place (rightfully so). The GF was more "rooted" when taking swipes and swings, but in between, I didn't feel rooted. The cleric was the most "rooted" of the bunch, and you really can't kite mobs as well as some other games. I'd like the at-will to be a bit less "rooty" there, however, I can see the PVP exploits in that attack being "free".
Talking from a realism standpoint (I've done both fencing and kendo), you're not toting around a shield and longsword and hitting anything while you move with any real force. And you're not blocking very well when moving. Most of the "zweihander" moves with a longsword need a firm stance to deliver attacks of real power; blocks as well, because if someone commits to an attack and you're moving, receiving that attack generally throws you around and puts you into a bad position.
Even when fencing, lunges don't go terrifically far, and you're not (in reality) travelling more than two or three steps when doing an attack (I'd consider the special lunges more like encounter powers, anyways; most of your attacks are a bit mobile, but not really dancing about; hard to describe, I suppose, but in layman's terms, your footwork is to throw off your opponent and dodge an attack more than being able to attack while moving).
I can't speak as to spells, because, well, I've never cast one personally. ;-)
Comments
Well you're going to want to squash that complaint wherever you see it - this is a cash shop game, and unless you want to be buying loads of hp potions off the cash shop all through your game experience, my advice is stop complaining.
I can see needing rooting for Ranged attacks, or at least a slowed run speed, to prevent kiting. I don't see a meaningful challenge reason for melee combat. If you can hit the enemy, the enemy can always hit you back, as long as attack ranges are reasonable. Being unrooted does help with dealing with multiple enemies, because you can keep some off you while attacking others, but it takes skill to do that well.
Actually, rooting is tangential to this specific example. Rooting is about whether you can move conventionally around while attacking. Blocking and dodging are abilities that I wouldn't expect to be usable while attacking (at least not normal attacks) even in a game without rooting. And in fact, my understanding is that we do not have choice over "finishing" attacks, since we can't interrupt attack animations to block or dodge.
Rooting does force you to choose between repositioning yourself, or attacking.
With rooting: make a choice between repositioning or attacking. Most of the time, this choice is obvious. You only reposition if there is some very clear advantage to doing so.
Without rooting, but with weaker attacks while moving: still a choice between moving+attacking, and attacking, but the choice is less obvious. There are likely to be more situations where either choice is debatable.
In addition, rooting makes the controls more difficult and unforgiving, which increases challenge, but not in a fun way, thus making it harder to play according to a coherent strategy. If you queue up one more attack than you meant to (say because you were holding the mouse button down), and are swinging at the air because the monster walked past you during your long attack animation, it's frustrating. It's a greater disconnect between player intent, and what actually happens. You're stuck swinging at the air because of animation and programming limitations, not because it makes any intuitive sense.
Game reviews have been a joke for 10 years now. You can't take any of them seriously.
That said the game could do with a rise in the difficulty level.
Although people seem to have forgotten that while levelling was raised and difficulty wasn't touched, that inherently makes the game slightly easier as you can potentially gain levels sooner in a combat zone than expected and thereby have access to greater skills than intended (assuming that assessment of certain informative posts is correct).
Things I would like to see are some "grab" animations or, in the case of rogue ,"finishers" and toss stuff with telekinesis being a mage, since this game have some physics
I agree with change the facing while attacking though...
What needs to be looked at? The dodge already interrupts the attack.
And finally the solid blow-to-blow gameplay really feels good. I had a hafling Guardian Fighter go toe to toe with Ogres and Blocking on time was a nice dynamic to those fights. It would be cool to see that kind of character darting around to avoid the attacks (And at times I was able to do this) but enable this too much and it takes away from the experience.
My biggest gripe and the one i've seen complained about often is the lack of customization. Choose a race, it gives you passive abilities, Choose some feats for more passive abilities. Choose gear for passive stat gains. You do choose your at-will, Encounter and Daily powers as well as your Paragon path and pet and these do allow some variation. But more choices would be better.
Several people have noted that it doesn't always do so, actually.
One thing you mention is when dodging, there is a pause before and after, I will say to Cryptic, please think of getting rid of those pauses and make it smooth. A certain other game does it right, it's smooth and it does add to combat. Another certain other game has a pause after it's done, it so painful it ruins using it as an option. So I'm all for right into the roll and right out of the roll and keeping momentum.
NB: I did hate being rooted for the rogues dagger throw. That felt wrong, I should be throwing daggers on the fly. I suspect removing rooting for specific attacks would quickly lead to imbalance however. On balance though, love it love it love it!
Dont get me wrong, the attack and collision animations look great, and its a fantastic draw to the game, but being forced to stand still like two muppets that came out of a clock, only to take turns smacking each other with hammers?
that sounds so....static and boring, like a turn based combat jrpg (barf...)
i was excited by the 'you can interrupt most attacks with a dodge move' mechanic...now im a bit confused as to how it all works in practice.
This is a superb reply to this issue, as the topic is covered well. Even if you don't agree with Cryptic's decision, the video starting at 31:10 makes clear why the decision was made, for better or for worse.
For the record, I like GW2's very fluid combat style, but I am intrigued with the idea that there's tactical decisions to be made about where you place your character in a fight. This has a *little* bit of a miniature's style combat tactic to it, that I think might really be fun.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
You can't move during an animation, but you're still very fluid. On my guardian fighter I often chose to flank a big baddy during their tell, instead of blocking. Rogue bounces around like a pinball. You can totally interrupt a long animation with a dodge. I never felt like I was standing there trading blows.
This is actually one of the few things mentioned that will help make it more playable with lag. Especially for PvP. I'm sure someone else has already mentioned how it gives weight to the animations and makes the combat feel less floaty.
This is actually my biggest gripe with the game so far. Playing a Guardian Fighter it was extremely annoying. Not being able to move to dodge an attack and being stuck in place sucked. I wish it would just cancel your attack and let you move. I am not saying allow people to move and attack, just that if you try to move while the attack animation if going off cancel the attack and let the character move.
Talking from a realism standpoint (I've done both fencing and kendo), you're not toting around a shield and longsword and hitting anything while you move with any real force. And you're not blocking very well when moving. Most of the "zweihander" moves with a longsword need a firm stance to deliver attacks of real power; blocks as well, because if someone commits to an attack and you're moving, receiving that attack generally throws you around and puts you into a bad position.
Even when fencing, lunges don't go terrifically far, and you're not (in reality) travelling more than two or three steps when doing an attack (I'd consider the special lunges more like encounter powers, anyways; most of your attacks are a bit mobile, but not really dancing about; hard to describe, I suppose, but in layman's terms, your footwork is to throw off your opponent and dodge an attack more than being able to attack while moving).
I can't speak as to spells, because, well, I've never cast one personally. ;-)