Survivability and ability to solo content

garrettrogue · January 2013

I know there hasn't been very much to use as an example but I noticed in some of the videos where the Developers are playing the Trickster Rogue they get very low health in fights which seem like there are in some kind of starting zone. Are we going to have to rely heavily on healing potions in order to go about the game Solo? I mean you can only dodge roll so often...

rackhamgreg74 · January 2013

I'm going to assume that with a calass name like the "trickster rogue", that we'll be given a few "tricks" up our sleeve to get out of fights if things get rough. As with any close quarters melee fighting class, there has to be either a damage mitigator or a threat reducer/obfusgator ability. With the rogue, I'm guessing we'll have the later.

Having said that, if you're not one to dodge often, then maybe the rogue isn't for you and something with more armor/damage mitigation would be more fitting to your playstyle.

garrettrogue · February 2013

rackhamgreg74 wrote: »

I'm going to assume that with a calass name like the "trickster rogue", that we'll be given a few "tricks" up our sleeve to get out of fights if things get rough. As with any close quarters melee fighting class, there has to be either a damage mitigator or a threat reducer/obfusgator ability. With the rogue, I'm guessing we'll have the later.

Having said that, if you're not one to dodge often, then maybe the rogue isn't for you and something with more armor/damage mitigation would be more fitting to your playstyle.

What I meant is there is probably a cooldown on the dodge roll ability.

braxzana · February 2013

While using potions may be necessary in some fights, a lot of the combat I saw with the trickster rogue suggested that the roll out of danger thing can be used pretty frequently. I think I even read it was like a 10 second cooldown or something. And if foes "telegraph" their big AoE attacks as I saw in one combat video, you can even manually run out of range without 'wasting' a roll.

The trickster rogue also has that target-dummy after-image she can leave behind which apparently draws aggro or at least presents another target. Throw in the ability to teleport behind foes for a backstab even when you're alone and I have high hopes for the solo-ability of the rogue.

In the Control Wizard video, until the player went around purposefully aggro'ing large numbers of foes (to show off the impressive Daily PBAOE attack) he did quite well on his own... and I didn't see a lot of what I would call 'control' - seemed to be all attacks, but maybe the 'controls' are more like the knockback I saw, or the snare/slow effect of the Ray Of Frost and the control wizard doesn't actually "lock down" foes. Granted, the wizard generally survives by dishing enough damage before foes even get TO her, the rogue survives on the same general principle (just restricted to being in melee range, unless you go archer I suppose).

If a rogue CANNOT solo (or requires expensive potions ALL the time to do so) I'll be quite disappointed as (conceptually) I have a hard time rationalizing why a sneaky thief would choose to tag along with a guy in clanking armor and a giant sword or some librarian or a ~priest~... thieves should be THIEVES and to my sensibilities, a 'real' thief would most likely group with other thieves so they can all sneak into places.

razmaximus · February 2013

Maybe they will have a certain buff like the assassin in PWI has where you gain HP back from normal attacks based on how much damage you output.
The rogue class are always rather difficult classes to master in soloing content in alot of games i have played. I just hope the class doesnt struggle when facing solo leveling situations with large monster groups and mini boss fights.

iamtruthseeker · February 2013

The Shift and letter key or double clicking activates the "utility" power. The power you might have noticed has a bar that gets used as you activate it. This is the stamina bar. You can normally use this power twice before it must be charged again if used in succession or very quickly one after another. It slowly recharges back to full like a recovery bar does in these kind of games.

But since the rogue can always be hit anyway and doesn't have a self heal, bringing potions is advised or group up with a cleric.

a3xx · February 2013

Can we change the "shift - right mouse button" to "V" or other key?

iamtruthseeker · February 2013

a3xx wrote: »

Can we change the "shift - right mouse button" to "V" or other key?

Most things can be remapped

lordarkaine · February 2013

Best way to survive any monster is to murder it faster than it can murder you.

I think rogue has that covered.

bejita231 · February 2013

This is a group favored game, and some classes are going to be better suited being in groups than others, rogue favores striking from the sides and back to maximize its damage using combat advantage which will require a tank to hold the mobs aggro, whill every class can solo some might take more work than others, and i dont really see rogue in D@D as being a master solo class, atleast not as easily as a cleric could

But every class can solo normal combat, rogue might take a bit more work than a tank and spank great weapon fighter

nec0e · February 2013

don't forget companions, having one which has lotsa hp would make a good tank while you sneak around and backstab

rackhamgreg74 · February 2013

Yeah, looking forward to see what types of companions we can get!

gillrmn · February 2013

lordarkaine wrote: »

Best way to survive any monster is to murder it faster than it can murder you.

I think rogue has that covered.

*looks at tights*

Bard got it covered too!

whisperbyte · February 2013

Since this thread answers one of two questions I have about Rogue class I'll ask the other one here as well:
Can you perma-gimp your Rogue so that you can't progress anymore at some point?

true2 · February 2013

I just solo leveled a rouge to 20 today (not playing anymore to avoid beta burn out) here what i can tell you
I think died 3-4 times mainly from being distracted. between the target dummy and stealth and my man at arms hireling i can keep crud off me ok. I do have to use pots but i have had to buy any i looted more then enough. Only think that gave me issues was the last boss before i hit 20 and i think i may have been underleveld because the mobs before him were dropping level 21 gear and i was 19. in live i may take some foundry missions or some more event things to keep myself a head of the curve a bit more.

jaecern · February 2013

true2 wrote: »

I just solo leveled a rouge to 20 today (not playing anymore to avoid beta burn out) here what i can tell you
I think died 3-4 times mainly from being distracted. between the target dummy and stealth and my man at arms hireling i can keep crud off me ok. I do have to use pots but i have had to buy any i looted more then enough. Only think that gave me issues was the last boss before i hit 20 and i think i may have been underleveld because the mobs before him were dropping level 21 gear and i was 19. in live i may take some foundry missions or some more event things to keep myself a head of the curve a bit more.

Pictures please?

Pictures = Proof
No Pictures = Lies

true2 · February 2013

jaecern wrote: »

Pictures please?

Pictures = Proof
No Pictures = Lies

of what exactly

garrettrogue · February 2013

I got to level 30 with my Trickster Rogue and didn't die once. I went from level 1-26 with a Cleric buddy. Then I leveled the last 4 levels alone with ease. You have to utilize stealth. bait and switch and dodge rolls a lot. You pick off the weaker/ranged mobs first usually then take the bigger ones out last. GG.

kartofflen · February 2013

Got my trickster rogue to 30 today only died once the whole time. That death being due to a cutscene happening while mobs continued to beat on me. IMO regardless of the class you play the game is to easy.

valas625 · February 2013

braxzana wrote: »

...If a rogue CANNOT solo (or requires expensive potions ALL the time to do so) I'll be quite disappointed as (conceptually) I have a hard time rationalizing why a sneaky thief would choose to tag along with a guy in clanking armor and a giant sword or some librarian or a ~priest~... thieves should be THIEVES and to my sensibilities, a 'real' thief would most likely group with other thieves so they can all sneak into places.

I just want you to know that I love you. This right here is exactly how a rogue should work.

Personally, I always try to steal from my group. Wouldn't believe how much gold has "disappeared" during goblin raids or while in dark dungeons. Being in a group full of rogues, I might be more inclined to work in as a group instead of steal from it. Only because they'd catch me easier mind you, but it still works.

yellatruk · February 2013

Ive enjoyed rogue/thief classes for a long time.

In Baldurs Gate, I love to sneak around and assess a situation before enemies know I am near
In Skyrim, I love to backstab and giggle at burst damage numbers.
In Guild Wars 2, I love to roll and juke to engage/disengage combat.
In DDO, I love to disable traps and advise a group where to go.
In WoW, I love to fight other players in a "balanced" pvp setting

If an enemy does manage to successfully hit me in any of the games I play, I would prefer for it to hurt like HELL. I want to run for my life in attempts to survive the conflict. When they know I am there, I have failed my job as a sneak. I like the idea of rogues being able to solo content, but I dont want it to be a potion stock and spam, I dont want to "recuperate" to magically heal myself.

I want tactical decision making and finesse to be my reason I win fights.

Isnt that the whole point of the class?

korbanhod · February 2013

Health is not per say the key to solo content.

I remember in NWN you could have low HP builds and still be unkillable with your insane AC and atking prowess. Especially Bard/RDD/PM was Juggernaut with wings

neya01 · March 2013

I did need some time to get the feel of the rogue, and some more skills, but i managed to develop a tactic that works for me without having to spam potions too much. I do have some trouble with the dodging though, since you need to press w and shift at the same time and i somehow seem to have trouble with that :P

rackhamgreg74 · March 2013

neya01 wrote: »

I did need some time to get the feel of the rogue, and some more skills, but i managed to develop a tactic that works for me without having to spam potions too much. I do have some trouble with the dodging though, since you need to press w and shift at the same time and i somehow seem to have trouble with that :P

You can double-tap any of the movement keys to dodge as well. Depends on what you're most comfortable with.

devarion151 · March 2013

Stealth is the key to the Trickster Rogue class.

kallethen · March 2013

I enjoyed the Trickster Rogue very much, in both soloing and partying. A good portion of my time was spent partying with a friend who played a cleric. We were a great combo.

When soloing, the key is to rely on Stealth and your Bait and Switch.

plaxy100 · March 2013

Honestly Very easy to solo even with a just a tank Companion it gets increadibly easy after you pick up master inlfiltrater and can start running Perma Stealth in each encounter. But don't think this is easy no brain oh i'm invisable kill things... it still takes some cleverness to pull off and have backup moves when you botch that Glooming cut not killing or mob or it dying before Glooming lands on it and having stealth run out on you while there still mobs around.

veltor1234 · March 2013

never used a companion and only played with others once in the clock tower..played to lvl 16 and had over 50 potions (never bought one)when i finished... super fun to play and solo with

bastyth0 · March 2013

rog will useless when it came to npc that resist daze or short time, like blackdagger in skirmish... also tank companion didnt held all mobs he only held one mob..

need more customizable UI and hotkey .. now is only tab,q,e,r,1,2 ... need more like cap-lock,f,z,x,c,v,alt,f1-f4 something..

securus · March 2013

The thing I noticed is that up til 30 the game is really easy for a rogue, after 30 if your not stealth based it gets very tricky. A stealth based rogue can honestly almost permastealth and will hardly ever die, it was stupidly easy to kill things because they hardly ever attacked me. A crit rogue you end up having to use a ton of potions but you kill quicker. The main difference is you usually need 1 potion per encounter post 30 as a crit rogue, but as a stealth rogue unless you screw up you will hardly use any potions except on bosses. The crit rogue will do a bit more damage and honestly it might get better with the paragon tree for the crit based rogue. The problem is right now you only get the paragon tree for a stealth rogue so that is the way to go for now.

The other thing is it would be better if for a crit rogue if life steal worked better, It works great until you hit around 30 but because it scales really poorly even when stacked. The problem is it heals for just about twice at level 30+ as it does at level 10 but mobs do 10 times the damage to you.

dinohedron · March 2013

Hey everyone,
There are some really good posts in here that illustrate how to be survivable as a Trickster Rogue. Your power selection can go a long way to make a build deadly and fast but dangerous or slower but safer. We do expect pretty much all class builds to need healing potions as they play but what style you chose can change that up some.

We are also keeping a close eye on tons of data from beta and alpha including healing potions used/gained and number of deaths so we can make sure all of the classes are more or less in line with one another. We're making adjustments as we turn up places where something is off to make sure everything is nice and smooth for launch.

-Zeke

Survivability and ability to solo content

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