Lock? No problem!
Konon the Barbarian will use a key!
Konon smash!
Trap? No problem!
Konon the Barbarian will use a disarm!
Konon Body throw!
... see?! I still got 10 HP. Trap disarmed!
Yeah, that always destroyed some of the contents of the chest though...
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I'm not touching this with a 10' Pole unless I have the Dungeoneering skill! What do you mean the Thievery skill with lockpicks is better? Yeah right, should we search for secret messages next?
I'm not touching this with a 10' Pole unless I have the Dungeoneering skill! What do you mean the Thievery skill with lockpicks is better? Yeah right, should we search for secret messages next?
Yes there's a clue somewhere there.
Dungeoneering? No Problem!
Konon the Barbarian has his own P... *Bam!*
R.I.P. Konon the Barbarian. Sniped by a cowardly S&P sniper.
Well...we all have to admit, that the main purpose for a thief is to disarm traps and pick locks...every good party has one, NEEDS one...personally, i hope there are...it makes the thief, my first toon that i will make, pretty much a welcome addition, and lord knows, good thieves are hard to come by...Now i haven't played a demo, have seen some...but a thief can be very strategical depending on your play style...it just all depends on the player
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jaroffliesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited January 2013
I am most sure there will be traps and locks, no d+d game is complete without it. I am not worried at all the game looks great from what I have seen on the demo vids
Lock? No problem!
Konon the Barbarian will use a key!
Konon smash!
Trap? No problem!
Konon the Barbarian will use a disarm!
Konon Body throw!
... see?! I still got 10 HP. Trap disarmed!
I have no idea how they implement locks and traps here, but in DDO Konon the Barbarian couldn't finish a single quest and die a lot without a thief. He would miss half the dungeon because of doors and pathways he cannot see or open. He would miss half the loot because of chests he cannot open... poor Konon
p.s. I played a Half-Orc two handed Barbarian for fun and it is just annoying to run into every trap and die of them or be a health potion addict (even with double the hitpoints as the thief). On the other hand, let a horde of enemies engage, fall into rage and waste them. This is the fun part
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
Poor Konon! He died because he wanted to show us his pole! Why do the women keep wailing at that?
First I love traps/secrets etc in dungeon instances and DDO is the best at it so far, but has plenty of room for improvement. DDO's are static and they've been nerfed a lot so it doesn't matter if you run through them most of the time, you won't die and if you don't die, it doesn't matter, you drop a potion and carry on. Boo. We've asked DDO for years to have random placement of traps that are deadly. Random, deadly traps stop zerg runs, which any instance based game will become over time if you don't have reason to fear it. The instance will be judged by exp or gold/min vs all the rest and players in general will only run those with the best ratio.
So how can you make random traps? How can you make the game not rely on must having a Rouge if you have random deadly traps?
The first is programming and clear cut, not saying it is easy, but it's gaming gold if you can do it.
For the second part to work, all classes have to be able to spot/disable traps if you do a search/disable. The better their skill is built up the further out it can see on searching for traps, the better the lock pick skill the quicker it disables the lock. Now a Rouge with spotting skills can automatically see them via highlighting, no need to do a search, the more in the skill build up, the further out the auto detect kicks in etc. This simply makes them more efficient and can speed up the crawl, so it does give the party a reason to have a Rouge, just not a requirement.
You need everyone able to spot and disable, otherwise you don't then your traps can't be deadly, otherwise it makes you have to have a Rouge and that is no good either.
As for secret doors/area's everyone is able to spot them on demand. No auto-find for any class, that would be too easy. Perhaps a Rouge can open the hidden passage immediately where as other classes take x seconds.
So the best dungeon experience imo is random deadly traps, so you never are comfortable in the dungeon even if it's your 100th time in. Keeps the party together, which is what DnD is all about. Then everyone has a spot skill that will find a trap, depending on class and skill build up it takes from 0 to x seconds to detect, a Rouge is always live, no need to do a search. Disable the same way Rouge, clicks opens. Lesser skilled classes, x seconds to disable.
DDO stated it couldn't be done with how the dungeons were built. So we live with 5 years of "flower sniffers" vs "zergers" battles because the dungeon isn't strong enough to dictate proper play and most players just rush the dungeons, sort of sad.
But traps inside dungeon instances to me takes the game play to a whole 'nother level and made DDO's dungeon awesome. If it's all simply run from start to finish in a very linear way... that is too boring. Perhaps dungeons with no traps state such upfront so the players can have trap free runs as a change up.
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greyzinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited January 2013
Traps, locks, secret doors (more of an Elvin thing) are still only a small part of the Rouge's domain. To be more than a DPS add in, I hope there are chances to use the whole range of skills a Thief can bring. What about Spider Climb to get by a pit or just regular climb to scale a wall? Treasure evaluation to tell diamond from quartz? Beguile to misdirect that nosy castle guard? So many MMOs just treat the class as a DPS when in a dynamic RPG world it can offer so much more.
Traps, locks, secret doors (more of an Elvin thing) are still only a small part of the Rouge's domain. To be more than a DPS add in, I hope there are chances to use the whole range of skills a Thief can bring. What about Spider Climb to get by a pit or just regular climb to scale a wall? Treasure evaluation to tell diamond from quartz? Beguile to misdirect that nosy castle guard? So many MMOs just treat the class as a DPS when in a dynamic RPG world it can offer so much more.
Roleplaying things can be dealt with scripting and logic in dialog.
i absolutely loved being a trap rogue in ddo, the feeling of being useful not only in my groups surivival but the ability to find hidden passages and loot
from the press event you can see that there are traps and they do pack a punch...although not an instakill variety.
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vyrennMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
from what i have seen in videos traps work very similar to DDO's traps the videos also give me the feeling of DDO gameplay but more modern for this day and age i like it and cant wait to play
The MMORPG.COM livestream demonstrated items in the dungeons which required "Arcane Skill" or "Theivery" to interact with. I'm going to assume this means that content creators can place an object (such as a lock on a door) and if your Theivery Skill is high enough, accessing the item (in this case a lock) triggers an event..such as the door opening.
This is great news!
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sakuda13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 242Arc User
edited February 2013
From what i seen in the Beta press vids. on Feb 6th.. There where traps that only the rogue could see.. He disarmed them too
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
Technically if you get close enough you can see the red outline. But only the rogue can see the interact sparkly way. It was hard keeping it quiet that rogues disable traps
sangnzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited February 2013
Having managed to squeeze in some beta time before having to come to work and managed to get a Rogue to 8, I will assure you guys that traps exist.
Most of this info is based what I have seen in the first 8 levels in about an hours worth of play time during which I did 3 solo instance zones (areas only you or party members zone into and no one else) and of course much of this is open to change (beta is beta)
Rogues see traps with a big sparkly outline (easy to spot) and can disable them, no minigame mechanic but given the number of traps I have encountered a minigame would get old fast.
Traps do hit hard but they aren't insta death but you don't want to be standing on one in a fight.
Traps do hit monsters (so yes range pulling a monster over a trap seems 100% viable)
No solo content I have encountered so far that the traps couldn't be avoided by an intelligent party (there were paths that avoid the traps), this means the rogue smooths the content making it easier and safer but isn't 100% mandatory
Locks fall under a skill umbrella alongside dungeoneering, arcane appraisal etc, these skills are class specific and allow you to open certain containers find hidden doors that other party members might not. This means it will pay to have a diverse party build so all the skills bases are covered in order to find everything.
Actually you can access to all the skills access to interact with class objects by buying items like
incense->religion, mage power->arcane,10' pole->dungeoneering, thief kit->thievery... etc
Actually you can access to all the skills access to interact with class objects by buying items like
incense->religion, mage power->arcane,10' pole->dungeoneering, thief kit->thievery... etc
You can't do traps or 'sneak' using those. So there are abilities of rogue which are unique.
You can't do traps or 'sneak' using those. So there are abilities of rogue which are unique.
yeah sneak and disarm don't count.
Only annoying part is during gameplay there are times where it seems to lock you into "something", spamming F button to disarm traps keep throwing the "objects cannot be accessed" message. Then trying to reposition yourself around the trap while at the time triggering trap over and over again, once I almost died...
That "something" is so generic, from lag to still being locked in combat but with no enemies in sight...
Comments
Lock? No problem!
Konon the Barbarian will use a key!
Konon smash!
Trap? No problem!
Konon the Barbarian will use a disarm!
Konon Body throw!
... see?! I still got 10 HP. Trap disarmed!
Yeah, that always destroyed some of the contents of the chest though...
Yes there's a clue somewhere there.
Dungeoneering? No Problem!
Konon the Barbarian has his own P...
*Bam!*
R.I.P. Konon the Barbarian. Sniped by a cowardly S&P sniper.
I have no idea how they implement locks and traps here, but in DDO Konon the Barbarian couldn't finish a single quest and die a lot without a thief. He would miss half the dungeon because of doors and pathways he cannot see or open. He would miss half the loot because of chests he cannot open... poor Konon
p.s. I played a Half-Orc two handed Barbarian for fun and it is just annoying to run into every trap and die of them or be a health potion addict (even with double the hitpoints as the thief). On the other hand, let a horde of enemies engage, fall into rage and waste them. This is the fun part
So how can you make random traps? How can you make the game not rely on must having a Rouge if you have random deadly traps?
The first is programming and clear cut, not saying it is easy, but it's gaming gold if you can do it.
For the second part to work, all classes have to be able to spot/disable traps if you do a search/disable. The better their skill is built up the further out it can see on searching for traps, the better the lock pick skill the quicker it disables the lock. Now a Rouge with spotting skills can automatically see them via highlighting, no need to do a search, the more in the skill build up, the further out the auto detect kicks in etc. This simply makes them more efficient and can speed up the crawl, so it does give the party a reason to have a Rouge, just not a requirement.
You need everyone able to spot and disable, otherwise you don't then your traps can't be deadly, otherwise it makes you have to have a Rouge and that is no good either.
As for secret doors/area's everyone is able to spot them on demand. No auto-find for any class, that would be too easy. Perhaps a Rouge can open the hidden passage immediately where as other classes take x seconds.
So the best dungeon experience imo is random deadly traps, so you never are comfortable in the dungeon even if it's your 100th time in. Keeps the party together, which is what DnD is all about. Then everyone has a spot skill that will find a trap, depending on class and skill build up it takes from 0 to x seconds to detect, a Rouge is always live, no need to do a search. Disable the same way Rouge, clicks opens. Lesser skilled classes, x seconds to disable.
DDO stated it couldn't be done with how the dungeons were built. So we live with 5 years of "flower sniffers" vs "zergers" battles because the dungeon isn't strong enough to dictate proper play and most players just rush the dungeons, sort of sad.
But traps inside dungeon instances to me takes the game play to a whole 'nother level and made DDO's dungeon awesome. If it's all simply run from start to finish in a very linear way... that is too boring. Perhaps dungeons with no traps state such upfront so the players can have trap free runs as a change up.
Roleplaying things can be dealt with scripting and logic in dialog.
This is great news!
Most of this info is based what I have seen in the first 8 levels in about an hours worth of play time during which I did 3 solo instance zones (areas only you or party members zone into and no one else) and of course much of this is open to change (beta is beta)
Rogues see traps with a big sparkly outline (easy to spot) and can disable them, no minigame mechanic but given the number of traps I have encountered a minigame would get old fast.
Traps do hit hard but they aren't insta death but you don't want to be standing on one in a fight.
Traps do hit monsters (so yes range pulling a monster over a trap seems 100% viable)
No solo content I have encountered so far that the traps couldn't be avoided by an intelligent party (there were paths that avoid the traps), this means the rogue smooths the content making it easier and safer but isn't 100% mandatory
Locks fall under a skill umbrella alongside dungeoneering, arcane appraisal etc, these skills are class specific and allow you to open certain containers find hidden doors that other party members might not. This means it will pay to have a diverse party build so all the skills bases are covered in order to find everything.
first fighters get dungeoneering which is for finding secret doors and rooms...clearly a rogue skill.
secondly while you can see traps the damage isn't that strong...like 1/5th hp bar and secondly you get no xp for disarming them.
incense->religion, mage power->arcane,10' pole->dungeoneering, thief kit->thievery... etc
You can't do traps or 'sneak' using those. So there are abilities of rogue which are unique.
yeah sneak and disarm don't count.
Only annoying part is during gameplay there are times where it seems to lock you into "something", spamming F button to disarm traps keep throwing the "objects cannot be accessed" message. Then trying to reposition yourself around the trap while at the time triggering trap over and over again, once I almost died...
That "something" is so generic, from lag to still being locked in combat but with no enemies in sight...