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missouk
Member Posts: 42
It doesn't have to be better, it just has to be different: because the damage that the players do, and can receive, is a lot different than the damage that mobs and bosses can do and receive.
I thought Rift had a very, very excellent PvP system. PvP gear, that was better than regular PvE gear, was only obtainable via a totally optional PvP ladder and ranking system that took place at max level. Of course, you could get to that point by doing only PvP if you so chose: and the same gear dropped there (random drops off players bodies) as would drop off any mob. Its bonuses also didn't work against PvE mobs.
So the PvP awesome gear was an optional perk for the dedicated PvP players and had no advantage outside of PvP.
I haven't played the newest Rift expansion, so that may have changed.
Also, I find non-pvp servers to break my RP immersion in the game. Why shouldn't I be able to attack anyone and anything standing next to me if I'm ready to deal with the consequences? I really liked Lineage 2 for that reason (there wasn't much else for me to like about Lineage 2 :P). Open-world PvP makes the game feel more "real."
Also, you say "in their own game..." but the game belongs to PvPers also.
Anyways, it's not terribly hard to code a normal piece of gear that says "reduces damage done by other players by x amount" making it more useful in PvP but not more useful in PvE, so it isn't any better than PvE gear in a dungeon, and no one feels cheated for not having participated in an activity they didn't want to.
Developpers please don't listen such BS, remember that if people want a game like rift or wow, whatever you do they will stick on those games because there mechanics and developping time were focused on it, and DnD have totally different rules.
Most of the mmo players I know are fed up with those theme parks having exactly the same mechanics : you have to grin for a tier one pve stuff that allows you to grin for a tier two pve stuff that allows you to grin for a tier 3 pve stuff, etc. and when you decide to do pvp??? you have to start all over again because your pve stuff doesn't have the special attribute made only for pvp gear, and you have to grind again!!!
Let's make it clear : If you want to do a theme park with balanced pvp and pve separed, then you game will fail because by the time your game is perfectly balanced (and now tasteless), all the curious players would have bashed your game in forums and will be back to wow or rift or whatever. Please remember all the previous wow like fails and keep that lessons in mind.
Do you know the first reason why there were separated stuff between pve and pvp?
because on the early days on wow (I was there), people where QQing (crying) because they didn't want to be obliged to go on instancied dunjeons in order to have a good stuff to pvp!!! By that time, only the hardcore players that were doing again and again dungeons were able to have powerfull stuff, and then they were wery hard to beat by the casual QQing player. I remember perfectly that wow era... You could have stuff with pvp honnour, but it was taking soooooo much time... and stuff obtained wia pvp or pve was not totally different and you could mix it. etc.
So the casual players started to cry, but the hardcore pve players started to cry too coz they didn't want there hardly obtained pve stuff to be easily obtained by casuals pvp players...
so this is how the specific pvp stuff was born, and then every theme park did the same.
Consequences?
- you MUST focus what you want to play, pve or pvp, because you cannot do both at the same time : so more boring time spent to grin, and : people AFK in battlegrounds trying to get easy points.
- two separate game in one, pve players don't meet pvp players... this + the inter server killed totally the savage pvp and the social life on every server. By the early wow time, i used to know tons of guys from different guilds, friends or enemies. By those time, you had a huge friend list. By those time, you had a kill on sight list, and it was epic!!! now you can ride around azeroth for hours and all you'll find are grey characters...
Keep in mind that to play those theme parks, you have to pay monthly fees, and so having to grind for two different kind of gear is very good for them because it multiplies the playing time by two!
Your game doesn't need that
and your game isn't from nowhere, it is DnD based, in Dnd you don't have two different kind of gear!!! Stick to the rules and your game will be fine! Don't try to balance anything, it would be a huge mistake, because if you begin to do so, it will never end!!!
also don't copy and paste the dps/tank/healer trilogy, this is the stupidiest thing i've ever seen in the videogame industry!!!
a very strong and heavily armored warrior wouldn't do lots of damage? in DnD it is FALSE!
a priest can only heal and isn't able to deal great damage? in DnD it is FALSE!
a rogue can go and do lots of damage fighting like a warrior? in DnD it is FALSE!
I love pvp and i definly want pvp in this game, but it has to be casual and savage pvp, it has to be a free for all pvp, based on guilds and individuals, it has to be non balanced and lvl dependant!
no capture the flag and such <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> please we already have tons of those crappy mmo on the market, you have the greatest heroic fantasy licence don't kill it please!!!
http://thebestmmorpgever.blogspot.com/
Post edited by missouk on
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Basically they recalibrated the game for each class design to fit into one of these roles:
Defender, Striker, XHXeXaXlXeXrX Leader, Control
The D&D Rules melded to kind of adopt the newer RPG Combat styles. The Rogue is not a cowardly fighter who gets a lucky hit off once in a while anymore, they run around the field doing the most damage with opportunistic attacks. Most Rogues are strikers/high DPS classes, most Fighters are defenders, tanky classes and many wizards are much more control orientated than before. This doesn't mean Clerics or Fighters can't do decent chunks of damage but the roles are not exactly the same as they we in previous editions.
I don't like the changes a ton myself, but I suppose it's better you realize before you get the chance to play than afterwards....Fourth Edition D&D is exactly what you said you didn't want. That doesn't mean it's not going to be worth playing, give it a shot...but realize they aren't straying from D&D with these changes, they are following Fourth Edition Rules.
Furthermore we will not be seeing open world faction based PvP. D&D is a PvE Game, not a PvP Game, so to me a "theme park game" would turn D&D into an open world Grief-atorium such as WoW. All PvP will be in arenas/back end wilderness locations of some sort. There will be no PvP in standard PvE Areas.
I agree with your views on PvP Items completely, but I just wanted to warn you how Fourth Edition D&D has changed the mechanics.
As I said in some thread before the best skill designs are in games like dota or lol because each characters skills are unique and support eachother.
I did create a threads about pvp and gvg with pvp sets since many people complain about pvp destroying pve but please don't continue this point anyway I think there should pve sets for pvp but to make each set usefull we have to play rock, paper, scissors with them as well
What it means is we create dungeons where one dungeon have sets with better magic resists then others, next dungeon have sets that support movement speed, next with dps etc etc etc. Ofcourse items should have random stats same as in "diablo" or "path of exile".
Now for example each dungeon should have lvls of difficulty like easy (10-25), medium (26-50), hard (51-70), hell (71-80).
What these lvls are is creating a limits for each set so on lvl easy our set with random stats can give max 20 reist, on med 30. hard 40 and hell 50.
This way we make each dungeon usefull the whole game and random stats give us reason for going again to same dungeon.
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library
1/ healer / tank / dps ...shame... huge dissapointment... the most supidiest thing ever created by the mmo industry...
2/ ad&d is meant to be a rp game, your video game will be a mmo"rpg" game, where is the rpg in arenas and battlegrounds? where is the exitement?
pvp has always been the pepper in the pnp ad&d game, pvp had always a huge meaning in terms of rule playing. In the opposite, there is nothing more boring in pvp than battledrounds and arena!! nothing!
Why the hell in 2012, with all the lessons that should have been learnt from others mmo fails, some company carry on doing the same mistakes???
where have you seen capture the flag mini games in ad&d? where have you seen arenas in ad&d?
please stop this huge mistake you are doing, just take a look at swtor for example : as soon as you have instancied pvp, you WILL have to balance the classes for the QQers (cryers), and you WILL end with two stuffs, and you WILL end with more QQ, and a fail!!!
Believe me I have been playing mmo since nexus, I have been waiting for THE mmo, based on ad&d, successor of neverwinter nights 1 (not the 2 that was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>), i've been playing tons of mmo since then, from anarchy online to swtor, including wow, vanguard, warhammer online, and much more!
You have the best heroic fantasy licence ever : don't screw it!
pvp should be like in the pnp game :
anywhere anytime, at own risk, no balance, no special stuff.
you are afraid of pve QQers? good then allow us a special server!
If you are trying to make a pve game, good, people WILL stick to wow or DDO.
I cant believe that no one realize that there is a HUGE population of gamers that are waiting a decent pvp/pve game, all those that went to warhammer online, age of conan, daoc, darkfall online, swtor, aion, and now guild wars... I know tons of them in forums, wandering around, waiting for a mmo to settle in... Open your eyes people, you are creating a pve game? you'll be in competition with every other theme park in the market!!! create that special pve/pvp game we are all waiting for please! don't be one of those game that will be forgotten 6 month after release!
there are plenty of solutions to do so!!!
create special servers with specials rules, so everybody finds what he is looking for!
You want a decent pvp? :
- Make serious death penalties, so the pk player think twice before attacking another one. Corpse run or ressurection in temple (far away from the corpse)+ experience lost + items unbinded + money lost, etc.
- dont fully link/bind the item to the players but allow a % chance (based on the time of possession of the itemfor example) for an item to drop once the player is dead, why? because it makes the pk think twice before he attacks!
- gold : someone should choose to carry a certain amount of its money with him (the rest is in the bank), but when dead humanoid monsters or the enemy player should be able to steal it!!! this is pure logic, binded gold is just stupid. And once again it makes pk players think twice.
- don't balance the classes, allow tons of different efficient templates and make powerfull items very hard to find, so then no player knows in advance if he is sure to win or loose against another player.
- make the world big and dangerous, so the players have to group to explore
- make pk player's head wanted as rewards for quests by the city/town/castle, etc. guards, so they become a kill on sight target.
and last but not least :
don't make 144 lvls that allow the 144th lvl player to one shoot the 143th lvl player...
and oh yeah, very important :
there is no "end game" in ad&d, don't do this stupid mistake in your game!!! allow every lvl to equip every stuff, the lvl should only allow special competences, but has nothing to see with the equipment!!! In every mmo I played, the game was beginning to be interesting only at the last lvl, that was totally stupid, why?
- because the difference between the top lvl player and the player just one lvl under is Huge due to the equipment that the top lvl player can access... so for example in wow, a player lvl 89 will never beat a player lvl 90, never, because all the power relies on the stuff, and the stuff available for the 90 is faaaaar more powerfull than the crappy one for the 89. Consequence? the entire leveling is ininteresting and you have only people rushing for the max lvl or paying goldsellers to do so.
Please, think your game twice... or it will be forgotten 6 month after release.
Savage pvp made decent allows exitment during adventure, make players be carefull, gives a goal as a revenge, makes people play in groups...
etc.
PLEASE NO SET THIS IS NOT THE TYPICAL THEME PARK!!!
no set please, please please!!! don't make this game a wow like please!
sets are stuff that you are obliged to grin/farm for, it was created for monthly paying games so they were obliged to spend time, and when they were done with one set, another one was just released!!!
PLEASE, ad&d is not wow, your game is a free to play, don't put sets!
don't make characters all be clones!
allow different efficient stuffs and templates for one same class!
just look at the ad&d stuff
I WANT MY CHARACTER NOT TO BE OBLIGED TO DO THIS INSTANCE AGAIN AND AGAIN IN ORDER TO HAVE THE SAME STUFF OF ALL THE OTHER CHARACTERS WITH THE SAME CLASS AS MINE!!!
AND MOREOVER I DON'T WANT THE STUFF TO BE FOUND ONLY IN ONE SPECIAL BOSS, WITH SPECIAL SITES TELLING YOU WICH BOSS AND THE DROPRATE!!!
PLEASE!!! BE DIFFERENT!!!
And that is why they say half-knowledge is dangerous.
There is no healer in 4e. There is no tank in 4e.
Its defender and leader respectively and there is a huge difference between them. HUGE!!!
Basically, there is no trinity like your run of the mill MMOs.
You should play it and understand it before debunking it.
EDIT:
Sorry for giving emphasis on huge. Now when I look back at it, it might have seemed rude and not humorous and eye-catching as I intended.
you are absolutly right, i stopped at the 3e edition, but i read the previous green answer and it seems like he said that it was going to be the case in the video game :
Basically they recalibrated the game for each class design to fit into one of these roles:
Defender, Striker, Healer, Control
The D&D Rules melded to kind of adopt the newer RPG Combat styles. The Rogue is not a cowardly fighter who gets a lucky hit off once in a while anymore, they run around the field doing the most damage with opportunistic attacks. Most Rogues are strikers/high DPS classes, most Fighters are defenders, tanky classes and many wizards are much more control orientated than before. This doesn't mean Clerics or Fighters can't do decent chunks of damage but the roles are not exactly the same as they we in previous editions.
So in a certain way, your post give me hope that it won't be the same crappy mechanics regarding the tank/healer/dps that we find in every theme park mmo... but I remember that people were saying the same about swtor too...
fine! give me a beta key!!! i've been registering to have one... and please don't resume my post to a sentence.
It has become all to common trope to compare 4e with wow even when there is nothing in common. 4e has very team based mechanics - even more so than 3e.
Defender - they do soak up damage and keep enemies concentrated on them, but they are no tanks. As soon as enemy is distracted from the defender, they can acticate special powers and punish enemies for ignoring them.
Striker - its dps, sorcerer/rogue/avenger etc.
Healer - No such role
Leader - Buff/Debuff, probably heal. Also give bonus to people around you like a commander bolstering his army.
Controller - crowd control and speed reduction, making allies faster and enemies slower.
Now you have these four roles and there are classes. Each class has a primary role. That means that role is where you can maximize. Or you can diversify by making more invetment in another role, but you will still be good at your primary role.
So for example you have a sorcerer who is Striker, but you want it to be controller. So you invest a bit in making it a control type, but still it will be a make-shift controller only (and he can still be striker whenever he wants).
On the other hand you have wizard, who is controller and you want to make it striker. So you invest in making its spell damaging. However, it will still be your secondary role.
Lastly~~~~
The rogue is similar to before. He is a cowardly striker. And there are all kind of rogue just like before:-
A trickster - one who tricks but distracting you and stabbing your back
A brawny one - one who is dextrous and strong and faces you head on but parries your attacks to stab you
Aerielist - one who likes to do too many gymnastic stunts before killing you
Cutthroat - One who is brutal when he comes near your neack to slash it
Shadowy - one who uses intellegence and cunning to bring enemy down
These are as many rogues as existed before.
====
Wizard as far as I can remember were always less on power and more on control. They had lesser spells than sorcerers who were supposed to be strikers with them throwing spells.
====
So basically, not much has changed from before.
~~~~~~
Regarding team, in 4e if you forget one leader (doesn't neccerality have to be healing type) and take you party it becomes very difficult to do the quest.
Similarly without any defender you will be hard pressed.
The people who have secondary specialization can step up to the role, but it will still be hard.
So it very team based as you will need one of each to make the quest easy.
thanx for the explanations anyway
I admire your attitude to read about it and form the opinions yourself first. If you have any questions or need explanation, feel free to ask.
http://www.d20source.com/2009/05/players-guide-to-dd-4th-edition-for-3e-players
I feel i am unable to make myself an opinion before I spent a decent time playing this edition...
So i'll cross my fingers and wait for the game to be released.
(and of course i'll be hoping for a beta key too ^^)
Its a nice list and quite accurate but a bit old.
- Multiclassing is limited: Also bards have this multiple-multiclassing thing which lets them take any ability from any class unlike other classes(as long as their ability stats are satisfactory). Also, what was multiclassing in 3.5e is reintroduced as hybrid in 4e. But hybrid is limited as you can only hybrid 2 classes.
- Barbarian, bard, monk, druid are missing :- All were introduced in later PHBs. There are psions too, they do telekinetic and telepathic shtick. There is also a time-controller. Monks are psion and outsiders now.
EDIT: oops! Sorry for going far off-topic.
Guardian Fighter is the TANK.
Cleric when it is sooner or later going to be released is the HEALER!
Yes Cleric can play many roles as I told before I like to play melee Battle Clerics .. so yes you can give damage and buffs, but if you compare pure healing capacity a Cleric is really good at healing compared to the other classes released so far. I am not super GURU at 4th edition, but in DD 3.5 edition Druid is also pretty good healer though not exactly so good as Cleric.
However while I think there is possibility that Cleric is available at release unfortunately Druid I have not heard any rumor it would be in this game even near the release.
Control Wizard. Yes the name says Control.. so it is not pure DPS. However once again Guardian Fighter is certainly better tank then the other classes released so far.
Therefore yes trinity exist as should be! I hated Guild Wars 2 annoying respawn festival with no tanks, but everybody can ridiculously raise each other. No GW2 combat system please! Neverwinter will have Action combat so of course the Tank needs to dodge and Wizards need to aim like in a FPS. It is easy to dodge a slow Ogre, but Werewolves are much faster and can even jump on you.
One of the earliest interviews was done by a female interviewer with nickname Pocket. She wished very much to play the role of a healer and Cryptic told that there will absolutely be a healer role in this game. I loved to play a Druid Healers and Hunter(=Ranger) DPS in WOW. I did not play Cleric in WOW since in that game Clerics are unfortunately cloth users.
Defender is someone who can take punishment, is able to stun people when they stop hitting it, and is able to punsih people when they ignore him. This is a bit more complex mechanic. However this has mostly been adopted from old D&D and this four-way role system instead of trinity is something the old players from AD&D tend to say they enjoy when they play it.
Secondly, cleric may be built as healer, but you do not need a healer but a leader - i.e. a leader can easily fill the role of a healer. Leader may be someone who give you buff, or debuffs enemies(...). Or can be someone who give you all more flanking bonus due to his tactical genius (warlord). As there are healing surges in 4e, a healer is not something you will always need - but you will always need one leader in party (usually just one).
The combat in 4e is meant to be more tactical than a simple trinity system, although I do not know how it will be implemented. In pnp even position and angle of attack makes a lot of difference in battles.
EDIT:
Think of defender as those guys in movie 300, not as a large stone golem.
Yeah it does not always work so great as it sounds and I try to buff more evenly in GURPS and hopefully Werewolves will be smart enough to jump on the weak Wizard:). Anyway you will still see cries like we need a healer for this hard Dungeon run.... maybe not for easy Dungeons, but the most hard ones that is the future that I predict.
Actually this thread was about PvP, but I am still in the dark about that. We know that full open World PvP is not supported. I would guess Battlegrounds, but is it Deathmatch, Capture The Flag(my favorite) or defend/capture nodes or what? Usually in PvP in WOW keeping aggro as TANK is pretty impossible, but still there are classes that are better at healing.
Actually in WOW PvP a Paladin with full Plate Armor(and in WOW Paladin is the most defensive and has impressive healing powers) is one of the hardest things try to kill while playing a Hunter. That said one certain way to get extremely much attention(aggro) in WOW PvP is to pick the flag and start running with it towards home base in Capture the Flag gaming mode.
All enemy players in WOW have a compass that points direction of the flag bearer though it does not show at what height levels if there are many height levels in that map.
As they have said that no more than 5 people raids are there at launch, I would think that battleground would be a group Vs group match - like two 5 player parties pittied against each other in capture the flag, defend a location etc. for serious PvP AND there would be a duel match - one vs one - for fun role-playing purposes.
That is the particular reason the old trinity system won't work in group battles. If it was tank, mage, cleric the other player will go kill the cleric and mage first - always. However, a defender can use his powers and while other player are hitting cleric(or mage) he can rush in, intercept and stun them giving enough time to cleric to dodge. Or he can mark them thus increasing his damage on them by double or more till they start hitting him back.
There is only one leader at the moment and so cleric will have to be there for balance in each party I believe. However I think healing would be more like raiderz - i.e. situational. Those clerics who fight more might find it easier to heal others while those who avoid combat may find it tough to keep their party healed.
You keep using the "theme park" words but I don't think you understand what they mean. Theme park is where you go thru the levels that the designers make: sandbox is where players create their own definitions for success. Eve is sandbox, and Elder Scrolls games are sandbox: RaiderZ and WoW are theme park. Wow, with the open world PvP, has a little bit sandbox, as does Rift. In a sandbox, players can change and shape the world around them: like in Rift, where you can completely wipe out an opposing factions town. In a theme park, you don't change the rides, you just ride them. It's important (and makes it obvious that it's a theme park) to remember that this game was originally being developed as a co-op action adventure RPG, not an MMO.
Neither theme park nor Sandbox are better than the other, they are just different, and most successful games have elements of both.
Also, I really don't think including balanced PvP and PvE is a recipe for disaster: it worked wonderfully in Guild Wars 1. Very few skills had to be adjusted to function differently in PvP, and gear wasn't separated between PvE and PvP. There are multiple ways to do it.
"Casual" and "savage" don't really go together in my mind when describing PvP. Casual would be completely option, all instance based PvP, and savage would be, at the very least, warzones or open world.
Also, the trinity system is used in almost all MMOs because IT WORKS. Typically, when an MMO strays from the Trinity system, it's because
A.) It doesn't have enough players to sustain it (no one wants to wait half an hour on a piece of the trinity or
B.) It's easy enough to do without a piece
I'd rather this was challenging enough to need all three pieces of the trinity and popular enough to sustain the model. The Trinity system is nice because it makes your character feel necessary to the group. And 4e rules support the Trinity system (the idea of players having defined roles) very well.
All in all your rant comes off as a little bit uninformed, a LOT of opinionated, a response to something you didn't fully read or understand, and more a description of what you want the game to be rather than what the game is so far.
Also, a PvP ranking system insures that players wearing, for example, Tier 3 pvp gear are only competing against other players wearing Tier 3 gear, and that players new to pvp are only competing against other players new to pvp, instead of being facerolled by experienced players wearing Tier 5 gear.
When I responded to Missouk I had never imagined such a discussion would be born from that but never the less this does not belong in the thread about PvP Gear.
With that said I made the classic mistake of remembering that there was a fourth role and I scratched my head wondering if it truly was "healer" or something else; I decided to go for it anyway. I should have checked my PHB before saying the role is "healer" instead of the correct, yet IMO synonymous, term of Leader.
I think we've kind of reached a point where Shakespeare must return, would a rose by any other name not smell as sweet?
Although 4E D&D does use different names to describe their class roles to me that doesn't mean they are that much different.
The Healer Role might not officially exist...but I assure you most, if not all clerics, are designed with healing as one of their main focuses. A cleric, in most cases is a healer [support].
And this leads into the difference between a Defender and a Tank. This entire definition is determined by, and only by, a personal opinion. If you think a tank is a big oaf who serves no purpose other than to make sure he lives then obviously a defender isn't a tank...
However I was very much an avid League of Legends Player, I wish I could simply link over to one champion in particular, Garen. That champion is exactly what a defender is in D&D. He takes a ton of abuse while also putting out enough damage and threat to ensure he must be a force to be reckoned with. He can either be built damage heavy and be a Bruiser (Half Tank) or Defense Heavy and be a Full Tank (with Hefty damage)
I don't consider a Tank to be a useless pile of rubble which is easily avoided. In fact the term tank is derived, originally, from the actual war equipment and I tend to stick with that definiton. See the tank and realize, "We have to kill that thing...but that's one hard thing to kill"
A Defender, to me, is a tank. It might not be a stupidly simplistic tank that some of the lower quality MMO's put out but the Defender is still a tank.
A Cleric (most times) is a healer/support class. Reading the description of a Leader that mirrors every single role of a Support Class in any other MMO. And a "Healer" is normally nothing more than a misnomer for a Support Class.
As always D&D seems to be one step ahead of any other RPG On the Market creating the most in depth designs to the modern gameplay stylings. I think it's important to realize, these are modern terms to describe roles that already existed. Clerics were called healers LONG before any MMO's reached the market.
D&D was a bit far behind on incorporating the terminology into the rule systems but these roles existed long before they were a literal rule definition. Anybody who has read the Player Handbooks or played Pen and Paper 4th Edition can tell you this system stands out as being unique and more in depth than "useless blob, squishy assassin, frantic support and CC Bomber" but I'm not going to tell any person to not expect to see those roles in the game. 4th Edition renamed them and expanded them but by no means are those roles not apparent in any modern game.
And as for calling defender a tank, you have to realize that the tank in that case means the guys in movie "300" who could tank as long as shield was up but were slain in one blow when their formation is broken or if they are not looking at the enemy. Usually people picture a piece of beef or stone-golem when picturing a tank.
You may call Cleric a leader or healer. What people choose to ask for like ... we need a Cleric or we need healer (((or we need leader))) remains to be seen... or we need a Trickster Rogue to disarm traps and give good damage depends on the need and if it is a really hard Instance adventure etc.
Well I actually think it is very nice this game has Action Combat. In WOW it kind of gets repetivive as Hunter(Ranger) in some Dungeons... now you need to be more alert so Werewolves don't jump on you etc. Trickster rogue seems also interesting attack/retreat.
What we see here is that people use familiar terms. People who critize trinity are usually more bored on repetitive tasks. I think combat is very different from WOW of those videos I have seen. I certainly should know after playing 3.5 years WOW... there are some Raid Encounters in WOW that require lots of mobility, but in general terms Neverwinter is true Action combat and people need to be alert. I am not saying playing WOW is as easy many people think and actually playing a healer in WOW you need to pay attention to when to heal and who.
Dungeons Dragons is the biggest and most known roleplaying game ever created. World of Warcraft on the other hand reached during 2010 World Record of 12 million active players. Thus it is no miracle that Pocket(a female interviewer) asked Cryptic if there is a healer role in Neverwinter. People use familiar terms though yes I agree Cleric is much more then healer also.
That said this game is much closer to trinity then Guild Wars 2, but that respawn festival(anyone can resurect each other easily) with no tanks was not my cup of tea.
missouk--Apologies if I missed it before, but what are you talking about when you claim AD&D has PvP?
I've played all versions since the original version you take the paper punch-out character images from where race is the class to the said invention split of AD&D from D&D for both 1st and 2nd Edition, including running some stuff, and there are no rules for standard combat for normally fighting against players. Why sure, there may be some tips how to handle players turning on each other, but no "system" of combat for PvP. If you had a GM that did that, then it was house ruled not rules-based. Now, if you have some rules that I overlooked, I can admit I am wrong, 34+ years of playing or not.
missouk, valandur, if you didn't know before, Cryptic games use a single server with multi public instance "shards".
From my FAQ:
If these replies are currently moot, then do ignore them. Thanks!
and some one wrote this a few posts ago "1/ healer / tank / dps ...shame... huge dissapointment... the most supidiest thing ever created by the mmo industry... "
To that person
Tried to find out some things about Eq3 a week or so ago, but couldn't find anything other then that its in the early planning stage. Do you have a link to a site that has more info about it?
Balancing classes doesn't screw up the game at all: it worked wonderfully in Rift, Guild Wars 1, lineage 2, CoH/CoV, and countless others. Although I'll admit that it wouldn't have worked for any DnD edition previous to 4.0, I think class balance was a big issue for 4.0 writers and therefore will transcribe well to this game.
As a side note I do have a little bit of information on EQ3, just random things I read here and there: they have totally scrapped 2 different builds so far, because the developers didn't feel they were "revolutionary" enough. It will use the same engine as Planetside 2. The character models are extremely precise, so emoticons are going to be a big thing, as facial expressions can be rendered very precisely: they were even talking about using webcams in-game so that your character model and avatar's face would mirror your own's expressions.
They're calling it "Everquest Next."
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/14/everquest-next-is-pretty-crazy-says-soe-president-were-not-trying-to-make-wow2/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/14/smedley-talks-about-everquest-next/
Does there need to be specific rules about it? You can take the normal ruleset as is and pvp can happen in DnD is it the norm of any pnp session...probably not. pnp DnD at its core is about roleplaying a heroic or not so heroic character. The system itself works just fine if two groups of adventureres decide to kill each other for whatever reason. I remember such an event quite fondly which occured between two groups of adventures in a dm's campaign.
While some mmo's may have separate ruleset for pvp and pve others do not. I personally believe that if pvp is built from the ground up in an mmo there doesnt need to be separate rulesets just one ruleset.
Ah cool, thanks!