GameTrailers Exclusive Trickster Rogue Video

deathssickle · December 2012

Hey guys I noticed this video of the Trickster Rogue here

freekimdotcom · December 2012

Ah yes... the TRICKSTER ROGUE. Those tricky tricksters are all ways trickstering about. Very tricky they are those trickster rogues.

So what's the downside to having a party of all rogues? Woops, I mean, trickster rogues. Can we just call them tricksters? I mean it already implies they are a rogue. Unless you can have a trickster wizard! now that is worth playing for! hmm maybe there could be a control rogue as well! Yes, a game of rogues and wizards...

Ok I'm done thanks for bearing with me. It looks cool. It will be funny to see a party of 5 trickster rogues all being... tricky.

chaddiwicker · December 2012

Can someone explain to me (or point me to a source) why they no longer just refer to the Trickster Rogue as a thief? I've also seen Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. Why not just cleric and wizard? I haven't really played since AD&D days. Is this new naming convention something in the newest rules? Can't say I'm a fan of the class names, but I'm still looking forward to playing.

deathssickle · December 2012

these terms come from "Suggested" build styles from the PHs

zebular · December 2012

chaddiwicker wrote: »

Can someone explain to me (or point me to a source) why they no longer just refer to the Trickster Rogue as a thief? I've also seen Devoted Cleric and Control Wizard. Why not just cleric and wizard? I haven't really played since AD&D days. Is this new naming convention something in the newest rules? Can't say I'm a fan of the class names, but I'm still looking forward to playing.

4th edition classes work differently than previous versions. There are now roles for the classes which in effect serve as "builds" for those classes. Each class has a number of these builds and the four we see now are just but one of such roles for their respective classes. For example, there is also the "Great Weapon Fighter" among others listed in the source material for 4th edition. Classes are no longer just simply, "Wizard" or "Rogue," they all now have roles (builds) and get Paragon Paths later on to add even more diversity.

Update - Here's a post of mine from a while back with references to source material on the various classes in 4th:

zebular wrote: »

ambisinisterr wrote: »

A forgotten Realms Core Race list would be highly beneficial. Post it or link it if you could
I tried to find one but a generalized D&D Player Race list one wiki was all I could find.

Classes:
PHB1: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger, Paladin, Warlock, Warlord, and Wizard.
PHB2: Avenger, Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorcerer, and Warden.
PHB3: Ardent, Battlemind, Monk, Psion, Runepriest, and Seeker (PHB3 also introduces hybrid classes for Artificer, Ardent, Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Battlemind, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Invoker, Monk, Paladin, Psion, Ranger, Rogue, Runepriest, Seeker, Shaman, Sorcerer, Swordmage, Warden, Warlock, Warlord, and Wizard).
NWCS: Swordmage, Warlock, and Spellscarred.

Races:
PHB1: Dragonborn, Dwarf, Eladrin, Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, Human, and Tiefling.
PHB2: Deva, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, and Shifter.
PHB3: Githzerai, Minotaur, Sharmind, and Wilden.
FRPG: Drow, Genasi, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Eladrin, Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, Human, and Tiefling.
NWCS: (Racial Variants) Dwarf, Eladrin, and Elf.

All this information comes from my own 4e Rulebooks and not from Wikis. These are Core Rulebooks and not Supplements.

Key:
PHB1 = 4e Player's Handbook: Arcane, Divine, and Martial Heroes
PHB2 = 4e Player's Handbook 2: Primal, Arcane, and Divine Heroes
PHB3 = 4e Player's Handbook 3: Psionic, Divine, and Primal Heroes
FRPG = 4e Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
NWCS = 4e Neverwinter Campaign Setting

chaddiwicker · December 2012

zebular wrote: »

4th edition classes work differently than previous versions. There are now roles for the classes which in effect serve as "builds" for those classes. Each class has a number of these builds and the four we see now are just but one of such roles for their respective classes. For example, there is also the "Great Weapon Fighter" among others listed in the source material for 4th edition. Classes are no longer just simply, "Wizard" or "Rogue," they all now have roles (builds) and get Paragon Paths later on to add even more diversity.

Thanks for the information zebular and deathssickle. I guess I'll have to wait and see how it works before I make a judgment, but the, "I don't like change" part of me isn't very happy. I'll try to keep him quiet.

stormdrag0n · December 2012

The Trickster rouge has a cool resting animation.....why can't the mage have one instead of that god awful chop Saki animation?

Just sayin

runamonk · December 2012

Trickster makeup?

stormdrag0n wrote: »

The Trickster rouge has a cool resting animation.....why can't the mage have one instead of that god awful chop Saki animation?

Just sayin

pilf3r · December 2012

runamonk wrote: »

Trickster makeup?

Ya I can't help but wonder what that looks like. lol Maybe he was referring to one of the images in this thread?

wraithshadow13 · December 2012

I'm a little bothered by the specific names as well. Over on Champions they have Archetypes, which are basically premade builds that you have to buy to use (unless you're gold) and to be honest i get that bad feeling that's what's going to be going on here. Cryptic used to be known for the freedom of customization but lately, not so much. I don't really like playing an MMO where i don't even get to pick my set up. It really didn't help SWTOR for me either, so the possibility that Cryptic might be going that route really makes me wonder about the state this game will be in at launch.

I honestly hope i'm wrong on this.

ambisinisterr · December 2012

The names aren't made up though. They are directly out of the Player's Handbooks *thumbs though his copies*
While you will be able to customize the abilities I don't think we'll won't be granted complete free reign of movement. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not the D&D we may be used to.

Think of the specific names as themes. As a Guardian Fighter you are there to throw yourself into the middle of the fray, say "HIIIIII!" and smash some faces in. You're not just a fighter, you're a disruptive fighter. Although you can choose to go tankier or more damage heavy with different items and abilities I have a feeling your role, if in a group, will generally be similar.

So the three main fighter types we're likely to see early on, in my opinion, would be the Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter and Two Weapon Fighter. That, to me, isn't limiting. That's to make sure the game is balanced.
It's more or less a limitation on MMO's compared to NWN style RPG's. It will always be a double sided blade offering many great things on one hand but many issues on the other.

From what I've seen in the videos their not telling you 'this is your build and you're stuck there,' but they are defining a [wide] arrange of powers which are easier to balance and limit overpowered character builds which are inherent when players have free reign.
A class theme isn't by nature a build. A build has no customizable options or leeway whereas a theme is more in lines with a prestige class, to those familiar with third edition rules. If you wanted to be a Weapon Master in NWN early levels you likely looked similar to every other Weapon Master and only diversified at later levels. Cryptic seems to be designing class themes but that doesn't mean it won't be customizable.

Think of Diablo 3, you chose a class and got different items and abilities. As you leveled you unlocked different abilities but you didn't always necessarily opt to take the stronger abilities depending on how you wanted to play the game. Each class was designed with a role in mind and although players could bend the roles they generally couldn't break free of them.
Similar to how League of Legends is played. Each champion has different abilities which defines their role but players will often use characters for roles other than the recommended settings.

I don't think it's fair to condemn it just because you're not being given complete control [to break the game.]
D&D works on paper...in video games...let's just say Neverwinter Nights bowed down to me. Broken and Overpowered don't mix well in MMO's...they have to make sure the game is balanced or I guarantee you it won't be fun to play.

Also, I really can't not stress enough, this isn't NWN. We're not going to be given these four classes and that's the final product. There will be more classes and variants. If you want to play a pure slice and dice fighter it will be released, if not at launch, than at some point in the future.

stormdrag0n · December 2012

ambisinisterr wrote: »

The names aren't made up though. They are directly out of the Player's Handbooks *thumbs though his copies*
While you will be able to customize the abilities I don't think we'll won't be granted complete free reign of movement. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not the D&D we may be used to.

Think of the specific names as themes. As a Guardian Fighter you are there to throw yourself into the middle of the fray, say "HIIIIII!" and smash some faces in. You're not just a fighter, you're a disruptive fighter. Although you can choose to go tankier or more damage heavy with different items and abilities I have a feeling your role, if in a group, will generally be similar.

So the three main fighter types we're likely to see early on, in my opinion, would be the Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter and Two Weapon Fighter. That, to me, isn't limiting. That's to make sure the game is balanced.
It's more or less a limitation on MMO's compared to NWN style RPG's. It will always be a double sided blade offering many great things on one hand but many issues on the other.

From what I've seen in the videos their not telling you 'this is your build and you're stuck there,' but they are defining a [wide] arrange of powers which are easier to balance and limit overpowered character builds which are inherent when players have free reign.
A class theme isn't by nature a build. A build has no customizable options or leeway whereas a theme is more in lines with a prestige class, to those familiar with third edition rules. If you wanted to be a Weapon Master in NWN early levels you likely looked similar to every other Weapon Master and only diversified at later levels. Cryptic seems to be designing class themes but that doesn't mean it won't be customizable.

Think of Diablo 3, you chose a class and got different items and abilities. As you leveled you unlocked different abilities but you didn't always necessarily opt to take the stronger abilities depending on how you wanted to play the game. Each class was designed with a role in mind and although players could bend the roles they generally couldn't break free of them.
Similar to how League of Legends is played. Each champion has different abilities which defines their role but players will often use characters for roles other than the recommended settings.

I don't think it's fair to condemn it just because you're not being given complete control [to break the game.]
D&D works on paper...in video games...let's just say Neverwinter Nights bowed down to me. Broken and Overpowered don't mix well in MMO's...they have to make sure the game is balanced or I guarantee you it won't be fun to play.

Also, I really can't not stress enough, this isn't NWN. We're not going to be given these four classes and that's the final product. There will be more classes and variants. If you want to play a pure slice and dice fighter it will be released, if not at launch, than at some point in the future.

Bloody well said.

jadescimitar · December 2012

runamonk wrote: »

Trickster makeup?

Pale moon elves definitely could use some color on their cheeks...

deathssickle · December 2012

ambisinisterr wrote: »

The names aren't made up though. They are directly out of the Player's Handbooks *thumbs though his copies*
While you will be able to customize the abilities I don't think we'll won't be granted complete free reign of movement. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not the D&D we may be used to.

Think of the specific names as themes. As a Guardian Fighter you are there to throw yourself into the middle of the fray, say "HIIIIII!" and smash some faces in. You're not just a fighter, you're a disruptive fighter. Although you can choose to go tankier or more damage heavy with different items and abilities I have a feeling your role, if in a group, will generally be similar.

So the three main fighter types we're likely to see early on, in my opinion, would be the Guardian Fighter, Great Weapon Fighter and Two Weapon Fighter. That, to me, isn't limiting. That's to make sure the game is balanced.
It's more or less a limitation on MMO's compared to NWN style RPG's. It will always be a double sided blade offering many great things on one hand but many issues on the other.

From what I've seen in the videos their not telling you 'this is your build and you're stuck there,' but they are defining a [wide] arrange of powers which are easier to balance and limit overpowered character builds which are inherent when players have free reign.
A class theme isn't by nature a build. A build has no customizable options or leeway whereas a theme is more in lines with a prestige class, to those familiar with third edition rules. If you wanted to be a Weapon Master in NWN early levels you likely looked similar to every other Weapon Master and only diversified at later levels. Cryptic seems to be designing class themes but that doesn't mean it won't be customizable.

Think of Diablo 3, you chose a class and got different items and abilities. As you leveled you unlocked different abilities but you didn't always necessarily opt to take the stronger abilities depending on how you wanted to play the game. Each class was designed with a role in mind and although players could bend the roles they generally couldn't break free of them.
Similar to how League of Legends is played. Each champion has different abilities which defines their role but players will often use characters for roles other than the recommended settings.

I don't think it's fair to condemn it just because you're not being given complete control [to break the game.]
D&D works on paper...in video games...let's just say Neverwinter Nights bowed down to me. Broken and Overpowered don't mix well in MMO's...they have to make sure the game is balanced or I guarantee you it won't be fun to play.

Also, I really can't not stress enough, this isn't NWN. We're not going to be given these four classes and that's the final product. There will be more classes and variants. If you want to play a pure slice and dice fighter it will be released, if not at launch, than at some point in the future.

Please don't compare Neverwinter to D3 I hated what they did to that series and is one thing I tried to get away from here.

ambisinisterr · December 2012

Heh, I hate Diablo (the entire series) completely. Actually only bought Diablo 3 because I had two friends bugging me to buy it.

The concept of D3 was fine...but they released the game long before it was ready to sustain long term gameplay. The outright item requirement and inability to acquire said items was an atrocity.
However the concept of classes with underlying roles and the ability to select a handful of varying powers is solid. Diablo 3's biggest failure was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor pre-launch balancing. I felt like the release was nothing more than a Beta with all the re-balances occurring...most of them making an already item dependent game even more item dependent.

Diablo 3 flopped not because of the concept which it seems NW will in some way be similar to but because of three main factors IMO.

1) Overly item dependent gameplay (poor balancing)
2) Redundant Gameplay...how many times can you 'complete' the same quests?
3) Game was not ready to be launched

Number 2 shouldn't be an issue for NW at all, we have no information on number one but I doubt items could hold players back even 25% as badly in any D&D Game as I found in D3, and due to all of these delays I hope they've shown just how dedicated they are to releasing a finished product.

Games are bad for reasons other than their concepts. The concept of D3 could have made a great game...but it's up to Cryptic to use a similar concept and do it right this time.

pilf3r · December 2012

ambisinisterr wrote: »

Heh, I hate Diablo (the entire series) completely. Actually only bought Diablo 3 because I had two friends bugging me to buy it.

The concept of D3 was fine...but they released the game long before it was ready to sustain long term gameplay. The outright item requirement and inability to acquire said items was an atrocity.
However the concept of classes with underlying roles and the ability to select a handful of varying powers is solid. Diablo 3's biggest failure was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor pre-launch balancing. I felt like the release was nothing more than a Beta with all the re-balances occurring...most of them making an already item dependent game even more item dependent.

Diablo 3 flopped not because of the concept which it seems NW will in some way be similar to but because of three main factors IMO.

1) Overly item dependent gameplay (poor balancing)
2) Redundant Gameplay...how many times can you 'complete' the same quests?
3) Game was not ready to be launched

Number 2 shouldn't be an issue for NW at all, we have no information on number one but I doubt items could hold players back even 25% as badly in any D&D Game as I found in D3, and due to all of these delays I hope they've shown just how dedicated they are to releasing a finished product.

Games are bad for reasons other than their concepts. The concept of D3 could have made a great game...but it's up to Cryptic to use a similar concept and do it right this time.

You missed one big reason it flopped RMT for items. Have to say this was a major reason many of us gave it the bird so to speak.

GameTrailers Exclusive Trickster Rogue Video

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