test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Is any of the Gear going to bind?
osirisraa
Member Posts: 13 Arc User
does any of the loot bind?
Post edited by osirisraa on
0
Comments
I can still see some small use for Bind to Character items, but only on special items, like that secretly intelligent bracer that will only allow Bob to wear it and shocks every one else to death that tries to put it on. Just not every blasted magical item in the game.
Just make it like UO did very well, where items would eventually loose durability and break if not repaired and then the more you repaired them, the less durable they became until eventually they could no longer be repaired without breaking them. This would keep the market and drive going for items. I just hope that gear isn't so fundamental that the entire game revolves around wearing the best l3vvT, for that is not "D&D."
Rust monsters! Ack, don't use that +3 metal sword man! Here, use this +1 leather whip. Wait, what is that behind it? Gelatinous Cubes?! Oh no, better not use my leather whip on that! Stand back, I got this! *readies a fireball*
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Just a few more options to that ... jk
;p
100% agree with u zebular, im tired of bind items aswell. In UO even artifacts werent bind so u can made some rly cool bussiness with them
Oh that's good! I nearly spilled my tea! That laugh just made my morning, thanks.
There's nothing wrong with bound items if they are a limited release. A special icon (such as armor appearance kits) to signify that you played in the beta or were around for a certain time in the game's history isn't something that should be traded and I personally like seeing in game. I don't believe veteran players should be given free powerful items but bound appearance items can give them a sort of thank you and notoriety that doesn't diminish over time.
For NWO I would believe this should be an account feature rather than an actual item but for arguments sake there's little difference.
Even items that are extremely powerful or should be considered extremely rare (including but not limited to known artifacts) I wouldn't mind being bound to characters.
However DDO's less than appealing way for new characters to join the ranks should be avoided. Low level junk shouldn't be bound to characters just because it's somewhat easy to obtain start-up gear. It really takes away from the game, especially when you start with friends and can't give them items that would aid them in lieu of your own rewards.
As for cursed items...you only fall for it once...but oh boy does that bring a whole new perspective to the game. Who else played Baldur's Gate 1 and found the magical belt at level 2 as their first magical item? That thing went on immediately, yay first magical item!
What the hell!? I'm a girl!? I can't take it off!? WHAT THE HELL!?
You tend to learn your lesson real quick; identify stuff before you put it on. It's a fun memory that I'll always remember and I wouldn't say "there's no place for items like that in a game such as ____"
It would be interesting to see higher level cursed items though. Items that players would be tempted to wear because of attributes they'd gain or items which curses could not be so readily spotted. Cursed items add a lot of interesting depth to D&D video games but sadly they lack the threat posed in pen and paper or novels. I'd love to see them incorporated if they were made into more than a low level pitfall.
I would too prefer to not see bound items, but more than that I would prefer to not see the auction house flooded with +12 Vorpal Wounding Holy Flaming Greatswords of Doom...
That said, there are alternative gear sinks. One of which being the destruction of a gearpiece upon a failed enchantment... which is the worst idea. Ever. A much better one being the ability to break gear into salvageable parts - chunks of metal, magic shards, enchanted fabrics etc - that can be then used as crafting materials and enchantment catalysts.
Bound items are necessary for a functioning mmo economy. It keeps rare items rare.
I don't have a source, but if I recall correctly, then the loot system will provide every player with their own loot at the end of a dungeon, as well as a chest to roll for loot between all party members.
In PSO2, every player has their own loot drops. No one has to share, and no one has to fight over who picked up the rare drop. You also can not trade for this reason. The in game market would become too saturated with rare items. It also prevents gold sellers and hackers from duplicating and selling/giving away gear.
As for rare items being untradeable I'd only want the rarest of the rare, the most powerful or iconic of them.
Some things should be noted as an achievement and that's one way to do it.
As I said before, bound items have their place in games, especially MMO's but these items shouldn't be commonplace junk. I found DDO used bound items incorrectly 99% of the time from how I think they should be used and likely why some of you hate the idea of having bound items.
It made no sense being given bound items as rewards that I'd never use, couldn't sell and couldn't give away to people who would use it. That was a failure in DDO's development without a doubt but that doesn't mean bound items are evil.
Nor do I say some of the best items should be untradeable for any economic reasoning. Achievements are something I think are important to every game and even if you can't pay real life money to advance in the game I still feel there should be some things you can't even spend gold on. If anybody manages to hoard up enough gold to get whatever they want they should still have something to shoot for.
Bound Items are a perversion of the D&D rule set.
Bound Items increase chance of game burn out by removing a long term investment for a players effort in when a bound item is replaced by something better it has no resale value.
This increases Grind factor and burnout
I will not be playing this game if ANY of the loot binds in any way.
I completely disagree. All that is needed is a durability system in place so that items will eventually need to be replaced. Ultima Online's durability system is one that would work perfectly in a D&D MMO, for in PnP D&D, items (even magical ones) can and do break.
To restate, since some have skimmed the thread:
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Which is even worse... you are not only barred from getting value out of the item you invested so much on, but it is also destroyed...
Again, I disagree. This will place value upon used items, create a market for things like repair tools and magical items that increase an item's durability while still keeping the market alive for used items. Besides, D&D is not all about items, it is first and fore-most about the character, their ability scores, their profession and their skills. Items have always been an added bonus to those.
DDO lost sight of this, majorly. I hope NWO doesn't follow suit and deters from this absurd "Manufactured Demand" for binding items. As I said before, a Naked Mage could easily take down a mage with a Staff of Power. D&D is NOT about items, it is about the Character. I hope NWO, since it is being developed by D&D players, will reflect this.
So what, you'd rather have bound items that, when you out-level them or find a better item, become absolutely worthless because they are bound to you and you are unable to sell or even trade them to other players? Your retort makes absolutely no sense when you take this into consideration. At least with a durability system and items that do not bind, there will continue to be a market for used items, even if they are not at full durability.
When items begin to become fairly worn, it will create a drive for the player to want to go out and play the game to seek a future replacement or search any in game market-place or trade with other players for replacements. Those who place too much value in and think that items are an inseparable part of their character need to realize just what D&D is actually about. I've had players like this in my campaign as well as played with players with such a mentality on their gear and let me tell you this, they were not looked kindly upon by other players when they flipped out because their gear got destroyed by a fireball or some other force of nature (or some other destructive force).
If you place too much value on items, then I have to tell you right now, PnP D&D is not for you. I hope NWO follows suit with PnP D&D in this regard. This "bind on equip" system and the mentality is drives needs to be done away with and NWO is the most promising game to do that for the very simple reason that such things are already non-existent in the PnP D&D Universe, which could be their largest and most dedicated player-base. It is whether they will be able to keep that player base is the real question and concern.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Like it should. I would also say make it so that if you don't oil and polish your items, they rust and loose their magic properties as well as strength. So after (say) every 500 hours of gameplay, if you don't polish your items in bank, inventory or stored elsewhere(AH) then it should start to rust.
And have a robot pet from store available for some zen, who will polish your armor and items for you.
Well I hope you're looking forward to a market absolutely flooded with epic items.
Which doesn't solve the problem at hand, ie used epic items flooding the market, once their owners have grown out of them. It just adds the minor nuance of having to repair your items every now and then.
If the NWN series is anywhere close to what D&D is about, or at least has been about, I would safely say that some classes, like fighters, have always been all about items. And even with the least gear-dependent classes, like sorcerers, the gear effect is still there - the correct items can make a wizard or sorcerer tankier than some of the best heavy-armored warriors in your party... And no amount of skill points and feats can beat the effectiveness of a +3d6 fire damage enchantment on dual weilded +8 kamas...
I'd rather have something to do with that gear that doesn't involve placing it on the auction house, where it won't be able to fetch a good price anyway due to the other 10000 people that have also put their +5 Flaming greatswords for sale once they've got their +7 versions... Something like breaking it for crafting materials... which by the way I've already mentioned in my previous post...
D&D is about what each individual makes of it.
I play neutral evil, power-hungry characters with a particular interest into eventually gaining enough power to ascend to godhood (or something like that). Such a thing requires a certain amount of uber-epic items, because last time I checked you can't win all battles with just the power of friendship and determination, unless you are the protagonist of some crappy shounen anime... and if you have a problem with that I, like the evil HAMSTER that I am, will happily summon a balor on top of you and loot whatever remains of your burned corpse, tyvm...
Except NW is not PnP... it is a Massively Multiplayer Online computer Action-RPG, not a board game you and 5 other buddies play on a kitchen table... and quite frankly the only thing that should be transfered as is from PnP to MMOcARPG is the lore and a very general idea of the mechanics.
For the guys who will try to compare this game to any NWN series (about gear), just forget about it, theres no way to compare them.
Let me show u some one example:
Holy Avenger Level 25+
The most prized weapon of any paladin.
Lvl 25 +5 625,000 gp Lvl 30 +6 3,125,000 gp
Weapon: Axe, Hammer, Heavy Blade
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 radiant damage per plus, and you can spend a healing surge
Property: A holy avenger deals an extra 1d10 radiant damage when the power you use to make the attack has the radiant keyword.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. You and each ally within 10 squares of you gain a +5 power bonus to Fortitude, Reflex,and Will defenses until the end of your next turn.
Special: A holy avenger can be used as a holy symbol. It adds its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and the extra damage granted by its property (if applicable) when used in this manner. You do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus to an attack roll when using a holy avenger as an implement.
Yup, this is a very powerfull item for epic tier, i remember in pnp 3.5 that at lvl 6 u could by a flaming weapon that gives u more 1d6dmg to all attacks u made with that weapon, this weapon at lvl 25 only give u a +10dmg to ur radiant power.
My point is, items are still is an important part of D&D but MUCH LESS than previous editions, as a pnp player dont make sense to go to an adventure get my loot/tresure and wont be able to sell it because its bind to me.....like i always did in my D&D adventures.
Like i said before put artifacts and extremly rare items cursed to ur character and make it extremly hard to find them, as an action oriented combat i think cryptic can rly make things hard and if u dont have the skill u wont get those items, not just like other MMO's where people can grind everything, in here if u dont know how to play u cant even grind for them :P
For me, no bind items unless is extremly rare or artifacts and even those..... Think i need more info how the game will work to have the right judgement about this topic. (loot tables?, static instances loot?, which propreties will items have?, random propreties on items ?, etc...etc....etc....)
It is true that items in 4e are different, (a bit simpler than 3e which had a very complex item system) however if you see the demo, the damage was like -1098 -2049. That would mean numbers may be treated a bit differently in the game than pnp. Balance in pnp is much different than MMO - pnp is slow and enjoyable while MMO is fast and tense.
So items must have been having different modifiers in the NW game itself compared to pnp.
@vindicon
Coming back to topic, if X feature causes Y problems, it doesn't means you should just remove the X feature altogether. Instead of finding faults against X, you should try to suggest improvements to X so it becomes X' which doesn't causes the Y problem.
So if you think bounded items are bad as Zeb said, instead of saying if they are not there it would cause market apocalypse, I would suggest you to devise an idea of improvisation together with Zeb so that market apocalypse does not occurs. That would be constructive addition to the ongoing discussion. Debunking a whole feature because of a probable problem is not very reasonable.
just my two cents
And - for the third time - I've already said that a system that allows you to break old gear into parts that can be used as materials or catalysts may do the trick just as fine if not better than gear binding...
The only thing gear binding really has for it is the fact that it is a direct solution that will always work - though it's not exactly the best thing in the world from other standpoints. Indirectly controlling the used gear market via the ability to salvage old items is somewhat unreliable, as it totally depends on where the economy is swaying towards, but if they do manage to make a proper system that incentivises breaking your gear into parts rather than reselling them - which is not particularly hard to do - and keep the balance then I'm all for no gear binding.
At any rate, once the beta begins we will have a good idea on what they did with it...
How about combining both - i.e. items having durability which break down after repeated repairs. When they break down, they can be converted into parts from junkyard - which can then be used as component for crafting.
Also npc can buy the weapons at reduced price of 10% of actual price. That way if you want to rid of an item you always can. Regarding flood of high level weapons in market, make it so that you can't sell the item at a lower price than it actually is. Or at least about 60%. That will prevent exploitation of low levels by high geared toons.
Gear being destroyed as a result of too much usage is an absolute no-no for me. Gear should be infinitely usable, whether through repairs or not. Changing your gear should be a decision of the player, not something forced upon them by the game. When I get myself a new sword, I wanna think "Damn, that's a nice sword", not "Damn, I only have a month before this thing breaks".
Also, as far as gaming economies are concerned, if the economy is player driven then NPCs buying and selling gear can only do harm. People might just prefer the instant money from NPCs and as a result cause a halt of trade. Besides, who can put a standard price on an item when the economy is constantly changing?
Ofc we don't even know if the economy is player-driven or not yet, but if by chance it's not player-driven then this whole conversation is null, as gear binding is pointless in a non-player driven economy...
and why MMOs are filled with it.
it reduces recycling of loot. 1 toon gets it, out grows it and it goes away.
That makes players spend more in game money and provides a money sink.
for normal rare loot drops
as for bound store items, by making them unsellable, you make more
money from cash sales..since players can't buy them in game at AH.
so bound gear will be there.
Item wear can be okay, but I hate how it works in DDO. It's one of my least favorite wear systems. Anytime you have unavoidable wear and loss of item power then that isn't fun to me. I don't mind paying to keep up an item, but then that is more about gold sink and less about item bloat.
I really like the idea of item deconstruction or use in crafting. This is one of my favorite ways to remove items, because you still get something out of it. It's not like the item and the effort to obtain it is a total loss.
Strict binding is an economy killer. Compare a few approaches: one for LotRO, one for EQ2, and one for the old game Lineage.
LotRO has strict binding, no deconstruction, and essentially no item market. There is a small crafting market, but most trade has nothing to do with items. It's all food buffs, potions, dyes, and the like. Its auction house style trade system (also very restrictive) has an anemic quality to it at best.
EQ2 has a moderate binding on equip but one can sell world drops and deconstruct items for crafting. It has a reasonably healthy trade system with a robust broker and crafting system.
Lineage had a very simple system with nearly no crafting and absolutely no binding. There was no auction house, but there were unattended player stores that could be placed in instanced market areas. Items could be lost by "blowing them" - that is a critical failure when trying to upgrade the item. They could also be lost, but not destroyed, by dropping them when a character died while they had a lawless status. Lineage had a wildly robust economy where people traded rare items for millions of gold and traded common items for a reasonable price while still profiting.
My preference is somewhere in between EQ2 style and Lineage. But it all depends on game design. I can say that the LotRO very locked down model is stifling and not very fun at all. It kills any life to a game economy and severely inhibits that living breathing world feel that makes mmos special.
Pretty much this^
But I still would kill for a MMO that didn't rely on gear. Where your sword may indeed look awesome but it is basically a sword like any other sans a rare minor enchant here and there.
Or something that has a never ending story which hopefully will be provided by the foundry.
Yeah my dream MMO would have the latter an open end personalized story that happened to you instead of running through the maze to get the banana....technology for that kind of game is still a ways off.