Some of that has to due with what the average play session is for the type of gameplay. PVP is usually a get in get out affair. Where as PVE usually ends up being more of a time sink hole for a large variety of reasons (both good and bad). Obviously there are exceptions, but that is something I have observed.
I am more of a PvP player since PvE is all about tactics and its easy once you know the tactics.I hope PvE will be different here ,no tactics lets say like at 60% of hp boss will do some aoe skill and once you know when he will do it it's easy.I want bosses to do their stuff at random so that no one can know what he will actualy do,this will be interesting and you will always be on your toes.
Actually it depends on the game. What you said is correct for old D&D games we have seen already. The only reason PvP entered in D&D video games was because of lack of content. Very few games which were worth. And in those few games, people get bored doing same thing. But it never became popular or sustainably popular.
But there are games that are PvP based. Like FPS games. Or dota like games. In those games, average playtime in PvP does exceed time in campaign by a large multiplier(hypothetically speaking, its over 9000!!!). But yes, in regular MMORPG(stress on RPG part, like D&D) games, PvP will remain a small portion, maybe even behind crafting and pets. Take out crafting from a true MMORPG, and there would be more blood shed on forums than taking out PvP.
Another thing is where in these games which are not PvP based, PvP tends to become annoying or boring after a few weeks very quickly. This is irrespective of whether PvP is done good, balanced or something. The population dwindles or people go PvP if they can't PvE.
If they are making this game as semi-FPS rather than RPG, I guess PvP might become important. But I can't imagine many of D&D fans would be crazy about it. If they don't want to mess it up, the rewards from PvP better not be applicable for PvE. Infact, all stats for PvP and PvE should be different, like two games. This would mean twice the work and twice the pain.
So maybe, PvP can become a good part of the game. But also keep in mind that devs in recent interview have implied that it is more of end-levels sort of thing. So it has to be optional or something.
~~~~
And feels good to see PvP vs PvE wars again on this forums. Gives something interesting to pass free time and laugh at till game is released. who started it again btw
EDIT: @plamgar PvP can be much more boring and frustrating than PvE. The standard combos and strategies etc. also exists for PvP. And the imbalance issues are quickly found and slowly fixed in PvP. Add to that a single annoying PvP player can ruin the fun of playing a game. So PvE and PvP are not that different - just depends on how much time the game designer was allowed to spend on that section.
Thing is for all you anti php folks. The combat system shown in NWO screams PVP friendly.
Also as far as PVP being boring. If I can play the same shooter for (looks at TF2 stats) over 1020 hours (cause I played in beta and played before they even started counting play time) then obviously there is something to this player vs player conflict thing. ;D
Of course I am not saying anything I haven't said before.
If they are making this game as semi-FPS rather than RPG, I guess PvP might become important. But I can't imagine many of D&D fans would be crazy about it. If they don't want to mess it up, the rewards from PvP better not be applicable for PvE. Infact, all stats for PvP and PvE should be different, like two games. This would mean twice the work and twice the pain.
I would imagine you get your stuff in PVE and then you can use it in PVP. With exception to a few items that are very specific to PVP.
People who believe that PvP will not be a major element to Neverwinter are only fooling themselves. PvP is a major element to MMO gaming as many will judge a game by it's PvP alone.
Wow. This may have been true back in the early 1990s, but in the modern era, gaming is primarily casual gamers, who care little for the intricacies of PvP. The average age of a gamer is 30, and most gamers have work to take priority. In these cases, PvP ends up being more a distraction from repetitive content found elsewhere in the game. Fact is, there are a few games dedicated to the idea of PvP-focused game play. Fewer of those are MMOs, and almost none of them are large. Where as games that cater to casual play tend to become popular and have long since become standard.
Why many quit said new MMO when if fails. Head Devs have already indicated that PvP will be a major element if you can interpret their words and actions.
I'm not trying to be a killjoy with this, but.. source please? I'd like to see where they've stated that PvP was going to be any element of the game, nor have I seen a single hint that PvP will be focused as a major component. From what I can see, they seem to be focusing more on action-based content and the foundery as major elements. PvP arenas, areas, or servers seem to be oddly missing from all the news. I would think that with something as 'important' as PvP would be given equal measure.
The fact that they want to do PvP right and are holding it off till after launch is a tell tale sign that it will be a significant aspect of Neverwineter. Not an end all be all aspect but will have a definite presence if they follow through. Which they are very tight lipped atm about just like how their tight lipped about the foundry atm. While I'm not saying it will be a juggernaut aspect of the game, it's presence will definitely be there.
Most of a game's revenue comes from the first month of sales, and drops of swiftly after that. Interest in an MMO can swiftly crash and burn, especially if there's major portions left out of the game upon launch. Based on how they handled PvP with CO and STO, which happened after launch, it's likely to be a feature implemented because without it, a small percentage of players won't try the game, and I'm certain PWE would want to have as many people trying the game as possible. Honestly, if it's not part of the original design of the game, something as big as PvP will not be done right. The balance between PvP and PvE style gaming is vasty different from the other.
If done right they can do an awesome PvP system, the potential is tremendous here between all the different kinds of factions or guilds. Especially in the Neverwinter setting where people are scrambling to gain power and come out on top.
I'll agree 'if done right' a PvP system could be good, but I'll give you a dirty little secret too: Neverwinter, nor Dungeons and Dragons nor PWE or Cryptic are very PvP focused entities. The idea of integrating it into the game seems anathema to me, simply because... there's nothing there to support it. I'd rather them focus on providing a more exceptional game without worrying about appeasing the people who can get the same thrills better elsewhere.
Well, concern is not pro- or anti-PvP. Concern is what is best of game. Someone will always be sad if they include shiny pets like unicorns and fat bunnies - and this same change will make some happy too.
However, D&D players are their faithful base which can be relied on. So for the sake of game, I predict they won't risk loosing a lot of them. So PvP would at most be like CO. But they would have standard stuff like crafting, pets and maybe mounts etc to attract more people. But loosing a sure shot player base than a predictable player base by having forced PvP would be bad for game (like a bird in bush idiom).
Also as far as PVP being boring.
And the whole point was that both PvE and PvP can be boring. It depends on design of game. They can both be interesting too. However, there is a difference that a badly designed PvE may still become profitable.
I'am more of a PvP orientated player but when i played DC Universe mostly i played PvE because it is really interesting.So Neverwinter can be a great game without PvP.Abeir-Toril is rich in lore and story so the PvE should be REALLY interesting and as a fan i know i wont be .
Wow. This may have been true back in the early 1990s, but in the modern era, gaming is primarily casual gamers, who care little for the intricacies of PvP. The average age of a gamer is 30, and most gamers have work to take priority. In these cases, PvP ends up being more a distraction...
....
PvP can be important in this particular game beacuse of its fps like aspect, but I am at wits end how will they have PvP specific nerfs to balance out the classes. Kind of curious because I believe if they stick to D&D rulesets, it can't be done with same setup as fighting PvE.
EDIT: Forgot to add my opinion. :-)
I believe PvE will be more important in this game than anything else. Afterall D&D is all about building the character in fantasy world the realistic way
I'm not trying to be a killjoy with this, but.. source please? I'd like to see where they've stated that PvP was going to be any element of the game, nor have I seen a single hint that PvP will be focused as a major component. ...
You are right, devs have never stated that. What they have stated is that
PvP won't be in at launch
they want to do PvP right. (may just mean they want to check balancing issues)
It will be more of end-game content.
EDIT: Actually ryvvik already mentioned it in this post before me.
Comments
But there are games that are PvP based. Like FPS games. Or dota like games. In those games, average playtime in PvP does exceed time in campaign by a large multiplier(hypothetically speaking, its over 9000!!!). But yes, in regular MMORPG(stress on RPG part, like D&D) games, PvP will remain a small portion, maybe even behind crafting and pets. Take out crafting from a true MMORPG, and there would be more blood shed on forums than taking out PvP.
Another thing is where in these games which are not PvP based, PvP tends to become annoying or boring after a few weeks very quickly. This is irrespective of whether PvP is done good, balanced or something. The population dwindles or people go PvP if they can't PvE.
If they are making this game as semi-FPS rather than RPG, I guess PvP might become important. But I can't imagine many of D&D fans would be crazy about it. If they don't want to mess it up, the rewards from PvP better not be applicable for PvE. Infact, all stats for PvP and PvE should be different, like two games. This would mean twice the work and twice the pain.
So maybe, PvP can become a good part of the game. But also keep in mind that devs in recent interview have implied that it is more of end-levels sort of thing. So it has to be optional or something.
~~~~
And feels good to see PvP vs PvE wars again on this forums. Gives something interesting to pass free time and laugh at till game is released. who started it again btw
EDIT: @plamgar PvP can be much more boring and frustrating than PvE. The standard combos and strategies etc. also exists for PvP. And the imbalance issues are quickly found and slowly fixed in PvP. Add to that a single annoying PvP player can ruin the fun of playing a game. So PvE and PvP are not that different - just depends on how much time the game designer was allowed to spend on that section.
Also as far as PVP being boring. If I can play the same shooter for (looks at TF2 stats) over 1020 hours (cause I played in beta and played before they even started counting play time) then obviously there is something to this player vs player conflict thing. ;D
Of course I am not saying anything I haven't said before.
I would imagine you get your stuff in PVE and then you can use it in PVP. With exception to a few items that are very specific to PVP.
Agreed.Those few items should be fun to use maybe like some capes tabards or titles.Nothing drastic to devide the game in to two like WoW
EDIT:They can make some items to be bought with some tokens that are from PvE and PvP.But still lets wait and see if they gonna release PvP
Wow. This may have been true back in the early 1990s, but in the modern era, gaming is primarily casual gamers, who care little for the intricacies of PvP. The average age of a gamer is 30, and most gamers have work to take priority. In these cases, PvP ends up being more a distraction from repetitive content found elsewhere in the game. Fact is, there are a few games dedicated to the idea of PvP-focused game play. Fewer of those are MMOs, and almost none of them are large. Where as games that cater to casual play tend to become popular and have long since become standard.
I'm not trying to be a killjoy with this, but.. source please? I'd like to see where they've stated that PvP was going to be any element of the game, nor have I seen a single hint that PvP will be focused as a major component. From what I can see, they seem to be focusing more on action-based content and the foundery as major elements. PvP arenas, areas, or servers seem to be oddly missing from all the news. I would think that with something as 'important' as PvP would be given equal measure.
Most of a game's revenue comes from the first month of sales, and drops of swiftly after that. Interest in an MMO can swiftly crash and burn, especially if there's major portions left out of the game upon launch. Based on how they handled PvP with CO and STO, which happened after launch, it's likely to be a feature implemented because without it, a small percentage of players won't try the game, and I'm certain PWE would want to have as many people trying the game as possible. Honestly, if it's not part of the original design of the game, something as big as PvP will not be done right. The balance between PvP and PvE style gaming is vasty different from the other.
I'll agree 'if done right' a PvP system could be good, but I'll give you a dirty little secret too: Neverwinter, nor Dungeons and Dragons nor PWE or Cryptic are very PvP focused entities. The idea of integrating it into the game seems anathema to me, simply because... there's nothing there to support it. I'd rather them focus on providing a more exceptional game without worrying about appeasing the people who can get the same thrills better elsewhere.
Well, concern is not pro- or anti-PvP. Concern is what is best of game. Someone will always be sad if they include shiny pets like unicorns and fat bunnies - and this same change will make some happy too.
However, D&D players are their faithful base which can be relied on. So for the sake of game, I predict they won't risk loosing a lot of them. So PvP would at most be like CO. But they would have standard stuff like crafting, pets and maybe mounts etc to attract more people. But loosing a sure shot player base than a predictable player base by having forced PvP would be bad for game (like a bird in bush idiom).
And the whole point was that both PvE and PvP can be boring. It depends on design of game. They can both be interesting too. However, there is a difference that a badly designed PvE may still become profitable.
PvP can be important in this particular game beacuse of its fps like aspect, but I am at wits end how will they have PvP specific nerfs to balance out the classes. Kind of curious because I believe if they stick to D&D rulesets, it can't be done with same setup as fighting PvE.
EDIT: Forgot to add my opinion. :-)
I believe PvE will be more important in this game than anything else. Afterall D&D is all about building the character in fantasy world the realistic way
You are right, devs have never stated that. What they have stated is that
EDIT: Actually ryvvik already mentioned it in this post before me.
Sit back and enjoy :-)
And if you post, remember to cast the special 'Rage immunity spell'. And always sanitize the posts with acid (for troll immunity)
Acid is nice but i prefer fire