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Numbers inflation <- Don't do it Cryptic.
bunnyfocker
Member Posts: 35
One of the big negative points that was from DDO, was the unrealistically huge numbers they were dealing with which eventually got them into a lot of trouble especially with AC.
People in that game were literally running around with thousands of hitpoints, which gods don't even have. They also had ACs in the 100's and had obscene damage numbers which were again, in the thousands.
This isn't Final Fantasy or Pokemon, this is DnD, where 20 points of damage will make people gasp in horror around the gaming table. Lets please please please keep it that way. Don't ruin it by power amping the game, and make it ridiculous and childish.
People in that game were literally running around with thousands of hitpoints, which gods don't even have. They also had ACs in the 100's and had obscene damage numbers which were again, in the thousands.
This isn't Final Fantasy or Pokemon, this is DnD, where 20 points of damage will make people gasp in horror around the gaming table. Lets please please please keep it that way. Don't ruin it by power amping the game, and make it ridiculous and childish.
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That being said, 4e is known for providing a nice, healthy amount of HP to characters. They really wanted to get away from the early-level one-hit-kills that was present in earlier editions. This means that your Wizard is likely start off with around 15-20 HP, and Fighters more around 30. By allowing survivability in characters, it promoted activity on behalf of the players, rather than absolute timidness and caution.
Although on one hand having thousands of adventurers running around with near godlike gear might not be super realistic- DnD has always had a large area for gear advancement- you just won't hit it often in a PnP game because you won't generally get to the point where you'll have a +5 luck, +5 dodge, amulet of natural armour and ring of protection +7 bonuses to AC on top of a tower shield +7 and +7 adamantine displacement armour of spell resist... but in theory such things are possible with enough time and money- and since the game capped you at 20, you can't keep levelling but upping your gear was the next best thing.
That said- I'd like to see gear be reasonably reigned in. Progression's a good thing if it doesn't become both a grind and something you need to min/max at all times just to get ahead- and when gear matters far more than skill does. I'd rather see gear not being what lets you do the top end stuff- but what either lets the average players work to so they can do the top end, or let the best players have more lenience in their playstyle to enjoy the game.
Challenges are good- but ultimately it is a game, and people want a challenge they can overcome, and they'll feel more satisified if they have to overcome it with skilled play rather than because they spent a hundred hours farming dragon scales from easy to kill mobs in order to make that must have suit of armour.
And by challenges, there must be many challenges to keep playing. They keyword here is MANY. The more you have, the longer people will play. This will negate the need to "farm" the same quests hundreds of times for one rare item.
The Foundry needs to be sold as a solution to grind.
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I agree. If the foundry is anything like I hope, it will open up the community to create challenges and compelling stories to experience alone and with each other. Eliminating the pointless grind of the same 3 quests over and over. The people that take the time to learn it will no doubt have a much more enjoyable experience. I am interested to see how it will all translate. Will there be limitations on who can play certain campaigns? And what items can be brought back and forth? Is it truly limitless creation? I see myself spending a lot of time with it.
While the game itself looks and plays very well(from playing the E3 demo). I believe it is the foundry that will really set this game apart from others. ::crosses fingers and knocks on wood::
And to the OP, numbers are just that. It really should make no difference on how well you play or enjoy the game.
My point is, looking for combar the game seems fun to me but as an MMO and pnp player i also like to set my own goals, getting loot, defeat that hard boss or complete that epic dungeon, guilds objectives, faction events or objectives (if implement), ect... etc... etc... That said, i just dont want easy mode content that i can finish in 1-2 runs and just to the next one and do it all over again, even with endless dungeons/quests.
So to be honest im more worried about all the game features than how great the foundry will work and about that we dont have any clue how its gonna work
Anyway, the one and only reason PnP D&D has low number values is exactly because it's PnP. You can't have people doing calculations with 3 and 4-digit values each time they want to do something, and the d20 dice are already pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
However, when you have the computer doing all the boring work, then you can and should increase the values. Why should you do that? Because higher numerical values allow for more detailed and varied stuff. For example, with the original D&D values, any damage over time effects are some form of tick every x seconds, because the numbers don't allow any more flexibility. Increase the values however and you have the flexibility to make smaller and faster ticks, as well as continuous bleeds. That allows you to more realistically differentiate the way someone is damaged from, say, being set aflame vs bring attacked by an insect swarm vs being hit by magic tentacles spawned by a warlock. It also allows for other things that the original D&D values do not properly allow - fine tuning, small side effects and, most important of all, steadier progression. In D&D characters' power level makes big leaps between a small amount of levels - but that doesn't matter because the leveling is very fast. With higher number values you can break that progression into smaller bits, smoothing the leveling curve. And, as this is an MMO, the leveling curve is VEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRY important, because it takes much, much more to level.
So you think the AC cap should be low just because DnD uses d20? This is an action mmo, we don't have to roll initiative checks anymore. Although there has been no official information on this, I seriously doubt weapons will display as 1d8 or 1d6. In fact I have a feeling Saves aren't going to be implemented either.
This game is loosely based on 4e rules. It's an action mmo with the D&D label on it so get away with using the words "magic missile" and "Neverwinter" with out being sued.
D&D is the setting and the lore, not the mechanics. WotC themselves change the mechanics in every new edition, and at any rate, they are the rules of a tabletop turn-based strategy-RPG. How in the 9 Hells can they be the appropriate mechanics for a computer real-time action-RPG?
Yeah, the d20 and the rest have a sentimental value, but if it works better another way when you take it from paper to computer, then you should always go with what is best.
Or we could just roll a bunch of d20 at once and keep those too if you so desire
Well, we can surely say that the Reflex save has become a bit more... manual, considering you have to dodge away from the attacks yourself.
When you start jacking the gear unnaturally..you pay the price later.
Kobalds that have 500 hp, and throw 10d6 lightning bolts
<not joking>
They do this to keep their customers happy. Powergamers.
If they don't see a huge increases in power each level, they are not happy.
You can also expect that from now on, that game will release new
epic level content 99% of the time.
As for the foundry as a game changer...from my experience it is,
for all players..except the powergamers. They will hate it.
If it can't be used to power level or twink a toon, it is useless to them.
and
they will hate to see resources put into 'useless' content.
Just ignore them b:chuckle
Problem would be if they increase difficulty by just increasing HP of boss, which just means resource spending and attrition. But those stuff are a concern after a few updates, not at release.