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Character Death
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Member Posts: 5,050,278 Bounty Hunter
Haveing played D&D since 2nd Ed, one thing that always made the game more interesting and exciting was the possibility of the death of my beloved characters... And it happened a lot. It made "he who survived" seem that much more special. It was an important part of the experience.
So my questions are:
Will there be a "hardcore mode" where character death is permanent barring resurrection?
How will respawning be handled for Neverwinter?
How do my fellow future Neverwinter players prefer respawning be handled?
So my questions are:
Will there be a "hardcore mode" where character death is permanent barring resurrection?
How will respawning be handled for Neverwinter?
How do my fellow future Neverwinter players prefer respawning be handled?
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On a related topic what about looting the corpses of fallen comrades or pvp opponents? I could see more of this on a permanent death type scenario vs a normally respawning character.
Imagine how u gonna feel if u lost connection or if u are lagging bad.....
I think it would be a bad idea to take an MMORPG designed for free or low-cost respawns and change just the death mechanics to permadeath, but I think that an MMORPG designed to have permadeath from the beginning could be a lot of fun. I don't think making the mobs easy would be a good idea though... it would be better to have challenging encounters but to do away with the excessively long XP curves that most MMORPs use. So, death would not be a rare occurrence, but it wouldn't mean years of grinding gone to waste.
But yes, lag would be the biggest concern and should be addressed proactively.
If I missed a thread I apologize, but the fact remains that I would interested in a permanent death type setting.... If you can minimize lag...
If you die you should delete your account and reformat your harddrives!
That said, Permadeath is always available at the discretion of the player. There are many Permadeath guilds in DDO and I am sure there will be here as well.
Bashing would leave a skull that can be used for true res or trophy.
After a certain time, abandoned bodies (more likely those killed by NPCs) could be collected up by a wandering cleric spawn and delivered to a temple for a true ress - at an increased XP cost.
It would be easier to RP one's return from the dead with such behind it, than a magical "it's not your time... zammm!", which is usually better designed for the chosen one, over an entire server of players.
And thats how D&D supose to be folks .
In fugue plane u can add mini games so players wont get bored
& if you alow some how to get wish spell for casters it can be great way for him to become rich.
Is good this is just "loosely based" on DnD then.
A milestone is any approved (by the DM/Game in the case of this MMO) two encounters. So, any game-activity considered approved completed (no saying "hello" and call that an encounter,) would be an encounter, and six successful encounters without dying again negates the DP.
Finally, do search the forums (see top where it says "Search Forums") before making a new thread. If you want to talk about an existing topic, post in that and restore the thread.
The subject returns with a death penalty: -1 to all attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks. This death penalty fades after the subject reaches three milestones.
You can't restore life to a creature that has been petrified or to a creature that died of old age.
The subject's soul must be free and willing to return to life. Some magical effects trap the soul and thus prevent Raise Dead from working, and the gods can intervene to prevent a soul from journeying back to the realm of the living. In all cases, death is less inclined to return paragon and epic heroes; the component cost is 5,000 gp for paragon tier characters and 50,000 gp for epic tier characters."
Well, I see much potential for Perma Death in game here...
1) "You can't restore life to a creature that has been petrified"
Of course, after being unpetrified, they could be raised again.
2) "Some magical effects trap the soul and thus prevent Raise Dead from working."
Make a Trap the Soul Spell pretty damn devastating, doesn't it.
3) "The gods can intervene to prevent a soul from journeying back to the realm of the living."
I wonder how this one will be implemented, if at all?
It seems to me, the Gods would not want to keep wasting their energies on losing propositions. I can see one of them saying "Really, that is what, 10 times this week? Why should I bother to bring you back again, when I got other worshippers that I rarely if ever have to save their sorry arses! Maybe you can find another patron to waste their time on you, I am done with you. You are more pain than you are worth!"
and my favorite....
4) "A creature that died of old age."
Again, I wonder how they will implement this one, if at all?
After all, one of the advantages of being and Elf or Dwarf was the longevity in PnP games. All the other races had short lifespans. But we all know E.G.G. worshipped elves, as they were the best race to play in the original game by far.
But I too do *not* want the "easy button" option for coming back. Make it hurt briefly or make it hurt a while but make it hurt if you die, 'cause...YOU WERE FREAKIN' DEAD!
'Nuff said.
Death penalty and permadeath should be unrelated and separate imo.
Permadeath is a playstyle so it should be optional. Nothing much is needed to do on developers end as perma-deathing (new word? lol) depends on player playing it, much like role-playing. However, similar to rp, any support in game from devs for players playing that playstyle should be welcomed.
Death penalty is to make the game realistic and people sane. Why would someone try to do a mission with strategy if that person can be careless and die hundred times to disable the trap by throwing their body and keep coming back? Death penalty should discourage reckless gameplay and powerleveling, because it has potential to destroy fun for others too.
/fully agree
Just feel there should be a Permadeath option for players who want it without forcing it on everybody either. It's the ultimate challenge.
Also , I am strongly supporting some form of death consequence even if it's not Permadeath, thus the DP part and hating the "easy button" option on most MMOs. Sorry if anybody got confused with the apples and oranges there.
How do you remove the immortality aspect without making it too deadly as to be fun?
I like the Death Penalties in the PnP game, provided the two or three events are more than go to local graveyard, kill two or three skeletons, and remove death penalty.
I see a couple of options to removing the Immortality effect, they are:
1) You get your Constitution in Deaths, with each Death lowering your Constitution by one.
2) In addition to the Constitution Deaths, you get one "Free" Death per level, that does not affect your Constitution at all. (This could be a free Death Insurance Policy from #3 below provided by your Diety)
3) You provide an In-Game mechanic, to circumvent Constitution Point loss, that involves accessing the Temple of your Diety (Or a allied one, for instance in the case of the Triad [Tyr, Ilmater and Torm]), and purchasing "Death Insurance", which costs: (At time of purchase)
1,000 Gold and 500 EXP per level
Whenever this Policy is cashed in, you are immediately teleported to the nearest Temple of your God or an Ally, unconscious but alive and stabilized (-9 HP in older versions of AD&D)
Now, for the question, what is the reason buying Death Insurance would prevent you from losing Constitution? Simple, your Diety, through clairvoyance, is able to teleport you away from trouble just mere seconds before you are to receive a damage that would have killed you, and their Priests immediately keep you from dying further when you are suddenly arrive at their altars.
Tyr is dead. Also I don't think people will like their characters to die. Some people might get frustrated if they loose connection, have technical issue with pc and their character dies. So a forced permadeath may not happen. Death penelties may - e.g. if you die, you fight with penalties, - which take 2 days or money or a prayer ritual which takes a lot of time and resource - to go away.
No kidding. It was just an example of allied Dieties for thjose who are familiar with Forgotten Realms Lore.
Got it, chalk you up to the Super Mario Immortal player set. ;-D
If you read my post, you would notice that for those who plan, perma-death is still all but impossible.
Even a first level character with an average Constitution, would have in effect 11 lives, before they reached second level. By 30th level, they would have a minimum of 40 lives, and could have as many as their gold supply allows, which at higher levels, in almost any game, including PnP tabletop games, becomes trivial, and nothing more than the cost of doing business.
A -2 death penalty really only affects low level characters. The mid and upper level ones are only slightly inconvenienced, and the penalties can be offset by spell and item buffs cheaply and readily.
A minus 2 to a character needing a 15 to hit, means they now need a 17, reducing a 1/3 change to hit to a 1/5th.
But a high level, who hits on everything 5 or above, only needs a 7. They still hit 2/3 of the time, vice 3/4.
Didn't really wanted to reply at first as me replying again would seem like an isolated debate, but I do hope you think about it with an open mind.
Fan of this way back in the death and resting thread, (and showing my age) where Con actually meant something! makes sense, that the body can only sustain so many rezz's. Or make sure the grp takes the appropriate measures for the toon need rezzing so that then actions could be taken to avoid this -1 con, i/e dont have the kit, this is where part ritual could come into play, mystic salve/ rare herbs/ sanctified incense all used, all items that could already be held in inventory from crafting and gathering.
people only see DDO permadeath as toon gets killed once then its game over.
Having said though DC's will suck, how do we stop that, i know some games are able to detect when you get DC'd and you relog and your back in same instance with your party, No penalty, hence the crawl or run thread.
In most cases toons are rolled with a decent Con to stop the Squish mages from splatting.
Also throw tomes +1 out for rewards, or Even add them to the micro transaction list, but then you start heading down the pay to win path, so somehow its gotta be controlled, IF it was implemented or something that could be switched on in game options ect.
But its just not 4e, is it so we cant have that now can we ;P
There really isn't anything that can be done to "solve" the lag problem. Sure it can be minimizex but nothing can be done about lag issues on the users end. Which is why they can't have permadeath MMORPGs.
Agreed.
If there were to be a permadeath I feel it would need to be an option, personally I don't have the time to play a character, die and wait for a rez or start over. If it was mandatory I would get fed up and soon become disinterested.
That said in hopes to make everyone happy, permadeath should be an option.
Super Mario - bad example, not RPG, not an MMO. In RPG you have savegames and infinite lives if party doesn't gets wiped off. In fact, all single player games have savegames. Most of them may be impossible to complete without one, especially the tough ones.
Except, they are more alike than a ongoing D&D Game, in that in both (Super Mario and Single PLayer CRPG's) you have an end objective, and when that is complete, the game is over.
All single player games have a save function so you can eventually "Win" the game, and defeat the Villian in the story. Once the villian is defeated however, what is there to do? Nothing, thus in effect, your character retires. (Unless they put out a subsequent game where you can bring them out of retirement. Usually always done by allowing you to access levels and other class abilities not available in the original or previous games.
In all cases, once you reach maximum level, they do not make new content for you, and you are forced to retire.
Not so in a MMO, the game is never over, there are always new villians, and worst, the ultimate bad villian keep coming back from the grave to wreak havok. In effect, you always win, and have no real repercussions for poor decisions.
I read your post carefully and understood it too. And I know what constitution is, and after that only I commented.
I did not add though, that classes with low constitution wouldn't like the idea.
Classes with Low Constitution, or Races and Characters. A Wizard can, the weakest Hit Point Character of all, is not prevented from having a high Constitution, and in fact is encourage more than a Warrior. In most classes (Barbarian excepted for their Rage duration) Constitution is a secondary or tertiary attribute at best.
Class - Prime Attribute - Secondary Attribute - Tertiary Attribute
Fighter - Strength - Dexterity - Constitution
Fighter - Strength - Constitution - Dexterity
Cleric - Wisdom - Charisma - Dexterity
Cleric - Wisdom - Charisma - Constitution
Rogue - Dexterity - Intelligence - Charisma
Rogue - Dexterity - Charisma - Intelligence
Rogue - Dexterity - Intelligence - Constitution
Wizard - Intelligence - Dexterity - Constitution
In fact, Death Penalties made based on Constitution, is more likely to make it a Secondary ot Tertiary Attribute than it is now, where in many cases, it is relegated to a minimum attribute, unless the character is looking at a certain feat tree.
Yes, unfortunately, lag is an issue, but as technology developes, it is becoming less and less so. We are not on Dial up any more.
How often do they really occur any more? Really.
That is why I put mechanisms in to mitigate them, and to allow players a chance to plan for such eventualities.
As a casual gamer (< 1 hour a day on average), yes it sucks that there is bad lag when I happen to be able to play. However, even now, when I find such laggy times, I do not adventure where it will be deadly. I find something else to eat up my leisure time.
It is after all, just a game, and if my toon dies permanently, oh well. Guess I need to try another concept. I cannot tell you how many characters I must have made, and have died in the most ignoble ways in PnP games. Sometimes the dice are against you, just like lag spikes.
I remember one instance, when I literally rolled 5 Fumbles in a row, and my 1st AD&D Monk, fell several thousand feet to his death.
I started by rollinga Natural 20 on a Dexterity Check (Under Dexterity), falling off the single rope bridge across a "Bottomless Chasm".
Then I failed to grab the rope as I fell, rolling a 1 on a ThAC0 check against AC 10.
I failed a third time to grab a small ledge handhold that the DM had in place as a third escape epic save option, again rolling a 1 on a ThAC0 check against AC 5.
When I failed that, the rope around my waist failed a saving throw the fourth time, when I rolled a 1 on the Saving throw. The party held fast, but they could have easily been pulled along with me to my demise, and all had to roll Strength Checks, which even the 8 strength Wizard made...
I finally failed to grab the rope with one last ThAC0 roll against AC 10.
Worst thing is, I had a 18 dex, so only a 10% chance of the first fail. And all others, I only failed on a natural 1. So, my odd of all those rolls happening was .0000625%, or 6.25 in a million.
The difference however, in a PnP game, you had to keep playing, despite bad dice. In a CRPG/MMO, you can always get up and walk away, and come back later, when the lag is not as bad.
So, once you beat a single player game, you don't make a new character up and do it over in another style? Isn't that what a "Permanent Death/Forced Retirement" in an MMO would replicate?