Enchantment Change Coming Up?

jana · February 2023

I so hope your not planning on doing a major revamp with the enchantments again. The last time was horrible and horrific really. I heard about it on youtube and hope you really aren't going to make all my maxxed enchantments worthless!

mithmyrr · February 2023

They are not revamping the enchantment system, you will still be able to use your current enchantments. They are introducing new enchantments into the current enchantment system, and a bunch of people are trying to get likes on youtube by making people feel outrage about what amounts to a non-issue.

The new enchantments are slightly higher item level. Very slightly. At green, they are +20 item level, mythic should be about 100. If you switched all 9 current enchants out for new enchants, that would be 900 item level total. For a 45k item level character, that is 2% difference in item level. It is slightly over 1% increase for people at 80k.

rockster · February 2023

...and as they have said for min-maxers this is a huge issue considering how dedicated they have always been to maxing every single stat. 1k IL is a lot when you are endgame and have maxed stats.

tchefi · February 2023

jana#2651 said:
I so hope your not planning on doing a major revamp with the enchantments again.

So, we had a system with 1stat enchant, 2stat-enchant, 3-stat enchant up to rank15.
They changed it for 1 stat enchant and basically forced us to trade our old 3stat enchants into a currency to get new 1stat enchant.
A bit more than 1 year later they are adding "new" 2stat-enchant.
I'm predicting we will see "new" 3stat enchant somewhere during the 2nd semester of 2024.
Then maybe 2-4 years and a rank 6 later, and we will ultimately see the inevitable "new new" system, as the cycle must continue ^^.

You still have time.

mwk · March 2023

mithmyrr said:
They are not revamping the enchantment system, you will still be able to use your current enchantments. They are introducing new enchantments into the current enchantment system, and a bunch of people are trying to get likes on youtube by making people feel outrage about what amounts to a non-issue.

The new enchantments are slightly higher item level. Very slightly. At green, they are +20 item level, mythic should be about 100. If you switched all 9 current enchants out for new enchants, that would be 900 item level total. For a 45k item level character, that is 2% difference in item level. It is slightly over 1% increase for people at 80k.

The two stat enchantments are not slightly higher item level! The community went outrage over it so much, it changed to item level 1500.

mintmark · March 2023

Well yes, but aren't they now the same item level but with more total stats? So still better, but in a different way.

The developers definitely seem to want the new enchantments to be better than the old, to encourage us to use them.
But being better means people will want to upgrade everything so that they have the best, so the situation is still there.

And if people converted their existing enchantments to account wide and bound versions... then they can't recover much value from those if they are not being used.... so there's that.

Anyway, it will probably change again... looking forward to see what actually gets released.

plasticbat · March 2023

IMO, increasing stat without increasing item level is a mistake.
1. it breaks its item level calculation formula.
2. having higher stat without increasing corresponding item level makes the 2 slot enchantment even better than the original proposal.

The #1 alone makes the situation worse than before. I am hoping that was just a typo and will be fixed properly (to follow the item level calculation formula).

jana · March 2023

I am so sick of having to use some wierd form of virtual reality calculus to figure this game out. "IMO, increasing stat without increasing item level is a mistake." Plasticbat I thought the exact opposite was true. Increasing your item level without really increasing stats lead me to harder area than I could play until I concentrated on the states. Or am I crazy and belong on a funny farm for old adventurers?

mentinmindmaker · March 2023

jana#2651 said:
I am so sick of having to use some wierd form of virtual reality calculus to figure this game out. "IMO, increasing stat without increasing item level is a mistake." Plasticbat I thought the exact opposite was true. Increasing your item level without really increasing stats lead me to harder area than I could play until I concentrated on the states. Or am I crazy and belong on a funny farm for old adventurers?

We are stepping into the middle of the not-so-obvious stat system here.

The effect from gear is split in two:
* The IL effect on base damage and hp. This applies only for unscaled content
* The effect of shifting stats from useful to less useful stats. Across the 15 stats, the general rule is that the net effect of a gear item is 0(the zero sum rule) - if you increase for instance power by 1000, you have a reduction across the other 14 stats of 1000.

* For scaled content lowering the IL without lowering the stats amounts to a solid power boost. They are breaking the zero sum rule and giving the items a net plus points value.
* For unscaled content you get the same positive effect on stats, but you lose the effect from increased IL on base damage and hp. Generally 1 point of base damage is always worth more in combat damage than a stat point. The stat point increase will not compensate for the IL loss. So for unscaled content the item will experience a combat power loss.

milehighxr · March 2023

They need to make them easier to get and refine than what I last saw on preview.

plasticbat · March 2023

jana#2651 said:
I am so sick of having to use some wierd form of virtual reality calculus to figure this game out. "IMO, increasing stat without increasing item level is a mistake." Plasticbat I thought the exact opposite was true. Increasing your item level without really increasing stats lead me to harder area than I could play until I concentrated on the states. Or am I crazy and belong on a funny farm for old adventurers?

For you to perform effectively across all content, you want to keep the percentage of the useful stat of your character (e.g. for DPS , 90% power, 90% critical strike, etc) high.
To have your item level high alone is not useful in scale content. A lot of people complained why their high IL character does a lot worse than low IL character in scale content. This is the reason. Those perform well in scale content because they have better stat. The higher IL you have, the harder for you to tune to have good stat.
To have your useful stat in high percentage is useful in both scale and non-scale content.

The known formula of calculating item level is:

item level = (sum of all stat + combined rating x 15) / 15

You once talked about you were told Armor kit has a bug. Do you know what the bug you complained about is? The bug is about it does not obey the above formula.

e,g, This character has item level 72926 and power: 64965, 79.4%

I remove 2 rings. Item level is now 70,226 and power is: 62805 (dropped by reduced combined rating of the rings) but 80.2%.

The power rating (in terms of percentage) increased although item level and absolute value of power decreased. Of course, I am not suggesting doing this because of other type of negative effect offsetting the gain of power %. This is just used to demonstrate how higher item level could have negative effect to some stat.

rockster · March 2023

I always see it this way - when you raise your IL to a higher number, you do not raise your stats, you raise three other things. You raise your damage output, you raise your total hitpoints, and you raise the ceiling to which you can increase your other stats which always have a hard cap on them. The percentage figure represents how close to that hard ceiling you are. So if you have 70% power stat (just the percentage not the actual stat) it means that you have only 20% room left to increase your power stat before you hit that ceiling and reach the hard cap and can't increase it any more. The green and orange colours are simply a handy rough indicator of how close to that hard cap ceiling you are before you can't go any further. So if it's green you're getting close, if it's orange you hit that cap and can't go any further and also have some part of that stat not being used now because the stat is higher than is allowed for your IL. When you raise your IL your ceiling raises and you can now increase your stats a little higher for better power, crit, def, etc, but the stats do not go up that much themselves, they do go up somewhat do to some calculation I never understand as was pointed out to me on here recently, but generally they don't move that much so because your stats are around the same but the ceiling has now moved upwards, you have more room to increase them so the percentage it will show will be lower now because the stats you have are now less of the overall 90% allowed as you have more room to go up now and the limit has been increased. But the stats aren't going down and you're not getting weaker because the percentage is less, it just means you have more room now to add extra than you did before.

jana · March 2023

OMG I understood what both you guys wrote and thank you both. I had to read them both I wont admit how many times. And you get no information when you start playing this game, but I guess all the mistakes is what makes it entertaining? I think they scale it down way to far in a lot of the dungeons, it would be nice to be with a group that could finish to the end more often-there isn't always anyone I know playing to make a group. And it is just to high anyway (the scaling down).

rockster · March 2023

jana#2651 said:
OMG I understood what both you guys wrote and thank you both. I had to read them both I wont admit how many times. And you get no information when you start playing this game, but I guess all the mistakes is what makes it entertaining? I think they scale it down way to far in a lot of the dungeons, it would be nice to be with a group that could finish to the end more often-there isn't always anyone I know playing to make a group. And it is just to high anyway (the scaling down).

Scaling is very unpopular amongst players, many people wish it didn't exist. It used to be that no matter what power you were you stayed that way in every single place in the game, this meant when you entered an area you were suited for it was normal gameplay and it took some effort to kill things and to survive, but if you went to much lower areas where people were much weaker, you could basically one-shot everything and annihilate things in two seconds.

This had a good and a bad side. The good side (and I agree with this myself) is that if you work to become "a god" in the game, you deserve to be able to enjoy it. You worked hard to increase everything and invested a lot of time, effort and money into getting to the high standard you are at, so you deserve the rewards and you should be able to express that power no matter where you are or what you are doing. It also meant that you could carry much weaker players and get them through content they were having trouble with, so it was common to hear people in PE zone chat asking for help with an early quest like vault of the nine (which no-one could complete when they first unlocked it but you got your first artifact and it was a huge deal the way the game was arranged back then so you really wanted to do it ASAP in those days) and people would go and help them get their first arti as a regular occurrence, or in other cases people would be struggling with a dungeon run except the fact that there would be one player in there who was much more powerful and able to carry the rest of the team and everyone got through it and got their gear etc to progress, it helped them all they were very grateful and the person helping felt good helping them, so it was good all round. Extremely strong players helped weaker people out and it worked nicely.

The bad side was that it was abused by players who spoiled dungeon runs for everyone and thought it was so funny to kill everything themselves and deny the rest of the weaker players a chance to actually fight. So you had the experience of a group of people running through an empty dungeon with one player way ahead killing everything themselves and waiting for them at the boss fight entrance. No fun for anyone apart from the sociopathic git.

Like most things, 'one bad apple spoils the whole barrel' as the saying goes, and a few idiots forced changes that affected everyone mostly for the worse. They tried to fix this issue so that no matter how strong you are you have to still fight normally and it still should take some kind of effort. I understand the logic behind it, but it doesn't make most of the players happy and I personally wish scaling would go away.

edit If ur having trouble finishing things, we should hook up in the game and I can try and help you out I'm in there all the time. I have a healer (DC), a dps (Wiz) and I'm currently working on a tank (GF).

plasticbat · March 2023

rockster#6227 said:

The bad side was that it was abused by players who spoiled dungeon runs for everyone and thought it was so funny to kill everything themselves and deny the rest of the weaker players a chance to actually fight. So you had the experience of a group of people running through an empty dungeon with one player way ahead killing everything themselves and waiting for them at the boss fight entrance. No fun for anyone apart from the sociopathic git.

Like most things, 'one bad apple spoils the whole barrel' as the saying goes, and a few idiots forced changes that affected everyone mostly for the worse. They tried to fix this issue so that no matter how strong you are you have to still fight normally and it still should take some kind of effort. I understand the logic behind it, but it doesn't make most of the players happy and I personally wish scaling would go away.

I would say the 'bad side' is the byproduct of Random Queue. Without implementation of Random Queue, players would not be 'forced/encouraged/tuned/(pick a word you like)' to running a dungeon they did not care, in a public queue, with strangers, with the mind set of speed run.

Before RQ, they could do private queue. They could do that in solo without bothering other random players who were in different level and different mind set.

Of course, without RQ to 'force/encourage/tune/(pick a word you like)' stronger players to 'help', the new player are not able to do that without 'help'. However, RQ was/is not the proper solution, or was/is an incomplete solution.

rockster · March 2023

I think that sort of player behaviour existed on the game before randoms were introduced but I know what you mean. It's just some people love doing that and they do it in any content because it makes them feel special and powerful in a world where they probably sit at home and are picked on by everyone and feel worthless so they use an MMORPG to make themselves feel powerful, lord it over others, and compensate for RL.

Enchantment Change Coming Up?

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