This is disgusting, what's even the point of investing in character development if every mod we're going to have to START FROM SCRATCH?! I would have been fine with enchantments rank 6+ but blatantly introducing objectively superior ones that disregard all our prior efforts?! And let's not talk about gear new better weapons/rings/gear? Most of us aren't even done getting mod 24 stuff and we're already behind...
This is disgusting, what's even the point of investing in character development if every mod we're going to have to START FROM SCRATCH?! I would have been fine with enchantments rank 6+ but blatantly introducing objectively superior ones that disregard all our prior efforts?! And let's not talk about gear new better weapons/rings/gear? Most of us aren't even done getting mod 24 stuff and we're already behind...
LMAO. "START FROM SCRATCH?!" You do realize that you can complete any and all content in the game with gear that came out two years ago (Sharandar), right?
All the whining min/maxers like you, Aragon, are the reason these are going to be slightly higher item level. All those players that say "you have the second best in slot for everything, then you suck" are the reason these enchants are like that. I miss when you made actual quality videos.
LOL at the players saying I DONT WANT TO BUY NEW STUFF! I WANT FREE TRADE INS FOR LIFE!
This is especially true for the streamers who make cash from videos of this game, then complain the game that supports them won't give them more free stuff.
The game supports you. Why don't you support the game?
This was inevitable. If you bound your enchants, WTF did you think would happen? There would never be better? Did you expect free trade ins for life?
Wake up and smell the wards.
This is a for profit business. They have to sell SOMETHING.
You want them to keep the same item level on enchants? For how long? Forever? Or just until/unless you can obtain them for free?
It was obvious that binding your enchants and having them on EVERY character on your account MUST come at a cost.
Well, now you see. This is it.
This is not the first time. This will not be the last time.
I suggest you don't bind your new enchants. I personally won't be buying them. I'm waiting for the inevitable triple stat stones.
Adapt and overcome.
All your base are belong to Cryptic.
Sad Bad True, but moves like this are making player base smaller and smaller, and it will be much smaller if changes in this condition will hit live + remember Ashes of Creation are comming live, what do you think, how much players will stay in this game?:)
It's also not like they just came up with these new objectively superior enchantments, they knew there were coming when they added the mythic enchantment choice pack to the zen store a couple of months ago... If they feel comfortable enough playing with us like that what's the point of sticking around?
I think the addition of another set of enchantment options is great! Thank you, Cryptic!
I think the Neverwinter Community members who have held the attitude of “instantly min/max your toon(s), or never get invited to content running” are out of line. They were out of line years ago, they’re out of line now, and they’ll sadly be out of line in the future. I refuse to be put under the yoke of that crowd.
Min/max builds, themselves, are great things. Theory crafting these builds into existence is a great service. Making them the only builds others can run, or else be excluded from content, though, is the real problem.
Not to be praising everything Cryptic is doing: It’s about time you stop tuning the newest queued content and such to the maximum tanking, maximum damage dealing, maximum healing crowd as the only reasonable chances of completion crowd, for end-game content. It’s one thing to have reasonable mechanics in fights. It’s something else, entirely, to make mechanics so unreasonable that the community of your players feel compelled to push a “min/max or bust” strategy at every turn, even to the point that there’s virtually no room, presently, for proper grind habit. Worse yet, making end-game this fraught with an admittedly high volume of toxicity tends to discourage the main group of players you need for survival: new - intermediate players. If end-game access means putting up with toxicity (yes, gatekeeper behavior to enforce meta compliance does qualify as such, even if the devs have over tuned the dungeon/skirmish/trial difficulty of end-game), end-game suddenly becomes unimportant. When end-game loses its appeal, the gear up drive diminishes. When that happens, no amount of monetization can save the company coffers from suffering.
As such, focusing my efforts in enjoyable early- to mid-game content on my army of alts, and finishing any of the few remaining structure upgrades/buildings in my guild seems to be the reasonable course, only opting into the new campaign zone grind and ignoring the new queued content thing. Are the trial weapons enticing, absent gatekeeperism induced by the devs tuning choices? Yes. Are they enticing with the inevitable toxicity? No. There isn’t one thing needed from this new stuff for me to enjoy the rest of the game, so that’s that.
Cryptic needs to consider this: Only when your end-game is absurdly easy for 80%-100% meta, challenging, though reasonably completeable, for 60%-80% meta, and tough as nails for the rest, will the game tuning of the queued content of end-game be proper, for the purposes of feeding your monetization strategy in an appealing way. That sort of tuning overcomes the possibility of gatekeeperism taking hold in the new queues, while making the meta appealing for the right reasons. Stop listening to the end-game crowd that is already sporting 80%-100% meta gear choices. Start listening to the 60%-80% meta gear crowd. They’re the winning ticket.
I think the addition of another set of enchantment options is great! Thank you, Cryptic!
I think the Neverwinter Community members who have held the attitude of “instantly min/max your toon(s), or never get invited to content running” are out of line. They were out of line years ago, they’re out of line now, and they’ll sadly be out of line in the future. I refuse to be put under the yoke of that crowd.
Min/max builds, themselves, are great things. Theory crafting these builds into existence is a great service. Making them the only builds others can run, or else be excluded from content, though, is the real problem.
Not to be praising everything Cryptic is doing: It’s about time you stop tuning the newest queued content and such to the maximum tanking, maximum damage dealing, maximum healing crowd as the only reasonable chances of completion crowd, for end-game content. It’s one thing to have reasonable mechanics in fights. It’s something else, entirely, to make mechanics so unreasonable that the community of your players feel compelled to push a “min/max or bust” strategy at every turn, even to the point that there’s virtually no room, presently, for proper grind habit. Worse yet, making end-game this fraught with an admittedly high volume of toxicity tends to discourage the main group of players you need for survival: new - intermediate players. If end-game access means putting up with toxicity (yes, gatekeeper behavior to enforce meta compliance does qualify as such, even if the devs have over tuned the dungeon/skirmish/trial difficulty of end-game), end-game suddenly becomes unimportant. When end-game loses its appeal, the gear up drive diminishes. When that happens, no amount of monetization can save the company coffers from suffering.
As such, focusing my efforts in enjoyable early- to mid-game content on my army of alts, and finishing any of the few remaining structure upgrades/buildings in my guild seems to be the reasonable course, only opting into the new campaign zone grind and ignoring the new queued content thing. Are the trial weapons enticing, absent gatekeeperism induced by the devs tuning choices? Yes. Are they enticing with the inevitable toxicity? No. There isn’t one thing needed from this new stuff for me to enjoy the rest of the game, so that’s that.
Cryptic needs to consider this: Only when your end-game is absurdly easy for 80%-100% meta, challenging, though reasonably completeable, for 60%-80% meta, and tough as nails for the rest, will the game tuning of the queued content of end-game be proper, for the purposes of feeding your monetization strategy in an appealing way. That sort of tuning overcomes the possibility of gatekeeperism taking hold in the new queues, while making the meta appealing for the right reasons. Stop listening to the end-game crowd that is already sporting 80%-100% meta gear choices. Start listening to the 60%-80% meta gear crowd. They’re the winning ticket.
You think cryptic shouldn't consider people's long term investments but they should consider your lack of skill, you don't get invited to content cause you're bad, that's not what we're here to discuss.
I'm gonna keep it 100, as I always try to: This is irrelevant. I'll repeat: this 900 item level increase outcry is irrelevant in the long run. Why do I say such? Because the gear is marching up at a higher IL rate than the enchants. We've gone from 1550 average IL armors to now something around 2k in about a module and a half. Even the dragon hunt armors can no longer be considered BIS for various trials, dungeons, and skirmishes. Remember that Eclipse's goal to begin with was, in fact, getting players to a 100k IL endgame, as was stated before the various overhauls before/since M22. Keeping that factoid in mind, I don't find it worth time to raise rancor over tuning enchantments, when the devs are already on record stating they intend to do far more than just enchantments to reach that 100k goal. This isn't to say I don't empathize, but it IS to remind most of you they have a working plan for the next few years of Neverwinter's life.
Stating such, back to the gear. Between the seals gear and the Underdark pieces, we're enjoying a 600+ IL jump, as well as various effects to maximize how we fight in our roles. Now, granted I'm under assumption that most veteran and even new endgame players can functionally run all current content with negligence to a theoretical 1% increase in stats. In which case, why the outcry? Further, we've already jumped into this rabbit hole. The time for outcry, I believe, should have been before 22, when they overhauled the enchantments. Then, it could have meant something. Now, I seriously doubt the playerbase's ability to pause momentum of this bolder already three-quarters down the mountain.
I could be wrong. I'll be pleasantly surprised if I am. But for now, it's just another carrot to chase. I'm more interested in the new map than I am the enchantment issues.
You've literally been commenting the same stuff on the forums for years now. Every time they do something like this you come here to cheer while the game ends up losing more players than what it gains...
Well, aren't people overreacting a bit over 900 IL? Min/Maxing has always been a caveat emptor sort of thing. Like mythic collars. It's there but you don't have to get 5 mythic collars for every character you play. Leave those for some whale to finance the game for you.
I was already thinking of taking a break from the game, but with this bs I think I will take the chance to quit altogether. I'm aware that the meta in games has to change for the players to always have something to grind for, but not like this... This is similar to the reason why I quit Destiny 2. They do something similar. Make weapons op that you can only get with paid DLC expansions and after a few months they nerf them and make a new one. It's a loop that yeah can give you a lot of money at first, but once the players start getting tired of it, all you do is kill your game. And I don't know if they care so little to realize, but the game has been dying for quite a bit now so it seems that they really want this game to die once and for all and get the most out of it while it still has some players willing to pay. My advice for whoever reads this and is getting started in the game or is thinking about investing real money on it, just leave the game already. It can be a bit fun but it's not worth playing if it's gonna die in less than 2 years most likely. Go for a newer game where devs actually care about their community. Neverwinter is doomed thanks to poor decisions made throughout the years.
To the point with out being redundant $400 its to much for an under performing MMO-rpg with a player base on decline that let the PvP system and its community die, have the worst help desk ever that cant resolve an issue. no new content more classes or races like the other MMO-RPGS, customization is limited to null on build or characterization on playable character. alternative is 30 million Astral Diamonds aka 340 paying full days of converting AD and at least 2h a day that means 680h, this is for a END GAME player. mid games well all your farm and questing for enchants to run the newest dungeons or trails are now obsolete that means all previous inversions in time playing or money was worthless in less 13 months.
with that $400 I can buy 3-4 triple A games with more than 800h of the BEST content available or subscribe to an MMO that its stable and will not make this a throw out cash more like an long term investment to continue playin for years.
now to the ramble I just reach end game took me a wile was awesome I spend time and money here its my hobbies and I fully support the idea to expend in it reasonable amount that I will spend in a game, but with this well its de 3time in my 1.5 years here that I have to start fully over again. time in Avernus haunting for my rib cage wasted my class (wizard) was full of bugs, dragons were hard as hell because I was not doing as much dmg as all other dps. then rework finally damage could stop buffing and have fun get sets and all. have the best run ever on MTOS with a guild that make me stay when i was planning to move to another mmo-rpg after the last enchantments rework. Yesterday my best friend how plays with me get his las enchantment and we were getting ready to hit MTOS and new content to start doing new dungeons... but well now its gone to be impossible. I will not put that many hours in a game that will not reward its players consistently through my play, nor go to the cash grab option with the subpar. its sad because the community its the best and what its happening its that this changes are killing the players that start return and want to reach that content.
Its sad but as my friend said if see this changes implemented in the game well its time for me to leave search for a game that provide what its failing here.
Well, we had single/double/tripple stat enchantments before, not a huge surprise that they plan on digging the missing ones up and trying to reanimate them as another money pit - they might as well bring Enchantment Choice Packs back into all lockboxes again.
And i think i'll grab Hogwarts Legacy when it goes on sale, and start spending some time with that one instead of sinking more time into the next module of Neverbedonewithrefiningsomethingelse Online.
Not to mention that it looks like one has to spend AD plus a good amount of time grinding other things for the new enchantments? No, thank you. I'll wait for the tripple enchantments to drop into the game, and then decide how i'll change my setup with the resources i've banked by then.
Anyway, i bet they thought they had chosen the perfect time for this "surprise", assuming that players would spend more money on the current ZEN sale to prepare for the new module - well, you know what they say about assuming something...
I literally started playing 9 months ago and yes i have spent some money and this is ridiculous. A casual player will never get to ever play end game if this is how you change things and I am not a casual player so you just made it harder for them. Its like we where set up. I would have never bound my enchants if i would have known this, I feel like i was just robbed. At least let us upgrade the enchants we have to new enchants and new bound enchants for like a coal mote or something. ARGHHHHHH
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
WOW. really wow.
So much drama because they released something a bit better. Really need more math and less overreact.
You say you need 400$ for a 1% dmg increase. Really 1% dmg increase is worth it? Dont talk like your actual enchants are nerfed or useless, they will be the same as now, and your characters will do the same.
Having the best of the best is allways costly, they do that on purpose, because some people cant use simple math and conclude that it doesnt worth it or at least not instantly. You can take this as a long term goal like mount collars.
People paid 40M AD for a mythic collar just for 1% increase in critical severity. YES, this people is the people who complains. I usually follow your videos and like the informative ones. But this is just pure sensationalist trash. And the players that follow you and doesnt have a brain, take all of this like truth, and some of them leave the game.
Content creators should be more objetive with the information they give, not this pathetic overreaction.
PD: If you binded your enchants, you knew the risks, but you enjoyed the enchants in multiple characters, so you actually spent less that having unbound enchants in all of them. You cant have everything.
I literally started playing 9 months ago and yes i have spent some money and this is ridiculous. A casual player will never get to ever play end game if this is how you change things and I am not a casual player so you just made it harder for them. Its like we where set up. I would have never bound my enchants if i would have known this, I feel like i was just robbed. At least let us upgrade the enchants we have to new enchants and new bound enchants for like a coal mote or something. ARGHHHHHH
YOU DON'T NEED THEM! wtf! The difference is miniscule. This has no effect on you playing end game. Stop embellishing and making up stuff. As OP said, this is a complaint from obsessive min/maxers only (which I can understand).
Again, changing what was just changed, omg, are they trying to close the game down?? SO many working for a long time to get the current and for what!! I have stuck thru tons of changes over the many years, but this, this is enough to make me rethink it, and i have 700 plus people with me, think about what you are doing cryptic, NOT GOOD!!! How do i explain to new players that what you are working hard for is gonna be pointless soon, that is terrible, and i do pay for some things, not happy at all very very displeased, how about fixing some known issues instead of dumping new changes that are not needed.
Please keep the total number of stats and the IL the same as the current enchantments. People will appreciate the balancing afforded by multi-stat enchantments, but making the total amount of stats and IL greater actually detracts, and does not add to that flexibility, as people will move towards using only multi-stat enchantments. This is exactly what happened before when multi-stat enchantments were introduced into the prior combat system.
If the goal is truly to increase the flexibility of builds by providing more enchantment options, the only viable approach is to make the new multi-stat enchants have the same total number of stats and IL as the current enchants.
This is disgusting, what's even the point of investing in character development if every mod we're going to have to START FROM SCRATCH?! I would have been fine with enchantments rank 6+ but blatantly introducing objectively superior ones that disregard all our prior efforts?! And let's not talk about gear new better weapons/rings/gear? Most of us aren't even done getting mod 24 stuff and we're already behind...
LMAO. "START FROM SCRATCH?!" You do realize that you can complete any and all content in the game with gear that came out two years ago (Sharandar), right?
Have you actually completed Master Tiamat and mTOS in a trial group using only Sharandar gear?
There is no point to having mythic enchantments with different ILs. Either keep the IL the same for old and new enchants or make a new color beyond mythic and let us upgrade our account bound enchants using only one coal rather than make us start over again from scratch. You still make some zen without completing obsoleting our existing enchants. Trying to say that combined enchants are different from single stat enchants is not true. Having 2 CA/CS enchants is the same as having 1 CA and 1 CS single stat enchant. It's not even like there is any good reward to grind for in the new mod or many endgamer players left to run the new trial. Don't HAMSTER off the few that are left.
Also where is Brett Norton these days? He was very good at communicating before the holidays. Haven't seen a single stream in 2023 even w the new mod dropping soon.
I totally agree with aragorn's original post. But I would like to add my point of view as a healer. None of the new enchantments are relevant for a healer because there is on each enchantment, a useless stat for a healer (accuracy, combat advantage, control bonus...). We could as a healer use enchantments in defensive slots but the cost to upgrade these enchantments is way too expensive. It's way too expensive to get more item level in addition to not getting the most useful defensive bonus combinations.
At first glance, this mod looks very boring for a healer.
I agree with Aragon. I understand that the game economy needs to keep evolving and we need players to spend their AD and not hoard them, but please give us an opportunity to at least trade in some of our investment in the old enchantments. I invested a LOT in them, and every time I'm forced to realize I have to throw so much investment in the trash, it makes me want to play this game and invest in it a little less. Please reconsider, Cryptic.
Not unexpected and akin to the Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast creep. It's a cash grab that alienates not only old school players but new ones that may have just gotten their first mythic to share with characters and are instantly behind the curve even more so. My guild is already having trouble getting peeps to do high end content because the investment in ilvl is bonkers not to mention the complexity of maximizing your character without investing loads of cash on the side. ;-(
There are players who literally quit this game because of the original enchantment change. Now they try to bring this? What's the purpose to reduce the game population even more?
I don't think they want to lose players, they want to lose those who have been playing for the longest time to make room for the new ones, more inexperienced and inclined to spend money unnecessarily, I have examples right now in my guild.
"Siamo solo delle piadine in mano hai potenti della terra" (Cit. Complottista Anonimo Facebook)- Professional AoE Tester - Doom of Healers and Tanks
Comments
Am I happy about it? Nope. Will I quit over it? Doubtful.
I think the Neverwinter Community members who have held the attitude of “instantly min/max your toon(s), or never get invited to content running” are out of line. They were out of line years ago, they’re out of line now, and they’ll sadly be out of line in the future. I refuse to be put under the yoke of that crowd.
Min/max builds, themselves, are great things. Theory crafting these builds into existence is a great service. Making them the only builds others can run, or else be excluded from content, though, is the real problem.
Not to be praising everything Cryptic is doing: It’s about time you stop tuning the newest queued content and such to the maximum tanking, maximum damage dealing, maximum healing crowd as the only reasonable chances of completion crowd, for end-game content. It’s one thing to have reasonable mechanics in fights. It’s something else, entirely, to make mechanics so unreasonable that the community of your players feel compelled to push a “min/max or bust” strategy at every turn, even to the point that there’s virtually no room, presently, for proper grind habit. Worse yet, making end-game this fraught with an admittedly high volume of toxicity tends to discourage the main group of players you need for survival: new - intermediate players. If end-game access means putting up with toxicity (yes, gatekeeper behavior to enforce meta compliance does qualify as such, even if the devs have over tuned the dungeon/skirmish/trial difficulty of end-game), end-game suddenly becomes unimportant. When end-game loses its appeal, the gear up drive diminishes. When that happens, no amount of monetization can save the company coffers from suffering.
As such, focusing my efforts in enjoyable early- to mid-game content on my army of alts, and finishing any of the few remaining structure upgrades/buildings in my guild seems to be the reasonable course, only opting into the new campaign zone grind and ignoring the new queued content thing. Are the trial weapons enticing, absent gatekeeperism induced by the devs tuning choices? Yes. Are they enticing with the inevitable toxicity? No. There isn’t one thing needed from this new stuff for me to enjoy the rest of the game, so that’s that.
Cryptic needs to consider this: Only when your end-game is absurdly easy for 80%-100% meta, challenging, though reasonably completeable, for 60%-80% meta, and tough as nails for the rest, will the game tuning of the queued content of end-game be proper, for the purposes of feeding your monetization strategy in an appealing way. That sort of tuning overcomes the possibility of gatekeeperism taking hold in the new queues, while making the meta appealing for the right reasons. Stop listening to the end-game crowd that is already sporting 80%-100% meta gear choices. Start listening to the 60%-80% meta gear crowd. They’re the winning ticket.
Stating such, back to the gear. Between the seals gear and the Underdark pieces, we're enjoying a 600+ IL jump, as well as various effects to maximize how we fight in our roles. Now, granted I'm under assumption that most veteran and even new endgame players can functionally run all current content with negligence to a theoretical 1% increase in stats. In which case, why the outcry? Further, we've already jumped into this rabbit hole. The time for outcry, I believe, should have been before 22, when they overhauled the enchantments. Then, it could have meant something. Now, I seriously doubt the playerbase's ability to pause momentum of this bolder already three-quarters down the mountain.
I could be wrong. I'll be pleasantly surprised if I am. But for now, it's just another carrot to chase. I'm more interested in the new map than I am the enchantment issues.
It was fun while it lasted. Ty everyone.
-Misfit pancake
alternative is 30 million Astral Diamonds aka 340 paying full days of converting AD and at least 2h a day that means 680h, this is for a END GAME player. mid games well all your farm and questing for enchants to run the newest dungeons or trails are now obsolete that means all previous inversions in time playing or money was worthless in less 13 months.
with that $400 I can buy 3-4 triple A games with more than 800h of the BEST content available or subscribe to an MMO that its stable and will not make this a throw out cash more like an long term investment to continue playin for years.
now to the ramble I just reach end game took me a wile was awesome I spend time and money here its my hobbies and I fully support the idea to expend in it reasonable amount that I will spend in a game, but with this well its de 3time in my 1.5 years here that I have to start fully over again. time in Avernus haunting for my rib cage wasted my class (wizard) was full of bugs, dragons were hard as hell because I was not doing as much dmg as all other dps. then rework finally damage could stop buffing and have fun get sets and all.
have the best run ever on MTOS with a guild that make me stay when i was planning to move to another mmo-rpg after the last enchantments rework. Yesterday my best friend how plays with me get his las enchantment and we were getting ready to hit MTOS and new content to start doing new dungeons... but well now its gone to be impossible. I will not put that many hours in a game that will not reward its players consistently through my play, nor go to the cash grab option with the subpar.
its sad because the community its the best and what its happening its that this changes are killing the players that start return and want to reach that content.
Its sad but as my friend said if see this changes implemented in the game well its time for me to leave search for a game that provide what its failing here.
And i think i'll grab Hogwarts Legacy when it goes on sale, and start spending some time with that one instead of sinking more time into the next module of Neverbedonewithrefiningsomethingelse Online.
Not to mention that it looks like one has to spend AD plus a good amount of time grinding other things for the new enchantments? No, thank you. I'll wait for the tripple enchantments to drop into the game, and then decide how i'll change my setup with the resources i've banked by then.
Anyway, i bet they thought they had chosen the perfect time for this "surprise", assuming that players would spend more money on the current ZEN sale to prepare for the new module - well, you know what they say about assuming something...
So much drama because they released something a bit better. Really need more math and less overreact.
You say you need 400$ for a 1% dmg increase. Really 1% dmg increase is worth it? Dont talk like your actual enchants are nerfed or useless, they will be the same as now, and your characters will do the same.
Having the best of the best is allways costly, they do that on purpose, because some people cant use simple math and conclude that it doesnt worth it or at least not instantly. You can take this as a long term goal like mount collars.
People paid 40M AD for a mythic collar just for 1% increase in critical severity. YES, this people is the people who complains. I usually follow your videos and like the informative ones. But this is just pure sensationalist trash. And the players that follow you and doesnt have a brain, take all of this like truth, and some of them leave the game.
Content creators should be more objetive with the information they give, not this pathetic overreaction.
PD: If you binded your enchants, you knew the risks, but you enjoyed the enchants in multiple characters, so you actually spent less that having unbound enchants in all of them. You cant have everything.
Caturday Survivor
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Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
If the goal is truly to increase the flexibility of builds by providing more enchantment options, the only viable approach is to make the new multi-stat enchants have the same total number of stats and IL as the current enchants.
Also where is Brett Norton these days? He was very good at communicating before the holidays. Haven't seen a single stream in 2023 even w the new mod dropping soon.
But I would like to add my point of view as a healer.
None of the new enchantments are relevant for a healer because there is on each enchantment, a useless stat for a healer (accuracy, combat advantage, control bonus...).
We could as a healer use enchantments in defensive slots but the cost to upgrade these enchantments is way too expensive. It's way too expensive to get more item level in addition to not getting the most useful defensive bonus combinations.
At first glance, this mod looks very boring for a healer.
Eila@nayiru