So what you are saying is other people get an advantage that I don't take advantage of, therefore change? OK...
Sounds about right lol.
@strathkin@hadestemplar your suggestions are overbearing and selfish. Why? You are NOT negatively effected by them in any shape or form while others with considerably more characters than you, are negatively effected. To be honest you are NO WHERE near the position to suggest limiting anyone, especially those with considerably more characters and time to play than you. Quite the nerve and gall you have there to even think about doing so, let alone parading the suggestions as benefiting the player base while still benefiting the players they are aimed against.
Your suggestions will be easily circumvented. How? It would simply take creating “x” more accounts to get back to the number of Celestial Coins gained prior... Did you even think about that at all? Probably not. People will STILL be getting the SAME AMOUNT OF CELESTIAL COINS AS BEFORE, so what will those suggested limits actually do? Nothing really... All of those thoughts and ideas of how to limit/punish players with more characters tossed to the side…
Now what?...
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
That's a bold statement. You do understand the word, it's often syn·on·y·mous with those who mostly take things in excess; while being critical of others. "Therefore, we can say that selfishness is self-interest carried to excess." taken from Wealthful Mind. This is what the other poster tried to explain, politely, just as I'm trying to do.
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――― Excess might be considered by some having: ╘ 2 Celestial coins x 57 Character (limit) to receive 57 Celestial Chests every 6.5 days, or 42 characters just to pray. ╘ that's 263 (max) Celestial Chests a month per account, or 789 every quarter.
Therefore (∴) 3 Coal's (average) per 100 chest, identified by another who earned (325 chest) every 3 months. So that is certainly less than half the possible 789 chests if (max) is 58 Characters. ╘ is 3 (100) + 3 (200) + 3 (300) + 3 (400) + 3 (500) + 3 (500) +3 (600) +3 (700) + 2/3 (68 to 89) = 23 or 24 isn't excess? ―――――
That's a very valuable reward, and you think possibly 24 Coal's at 1,000 ZEN (base cost) each or 24,000 ZEN is fair for one person to receive every 3 months? Some even take things farther with 2, or 3 accounts. That # maybe even smaller %, yet suspect some take it that far. That's based on an initial investment of < 4750 ZEN, if they even paid for it, some just waited to earn Diamonds then waited DZE to acquire the ZEN.
They won't increase the drop chance even 1-2% without limiting how many Celestial Coins &/or Ardent Coins are earned by those who go to extremes. They also couldn't offer Highest Blessings of the God's (0.5% - 0.7%) stacking chance each prayer, to receive a extra Potion, or perhaps Gem, unless they limit prayers to no more than 9/12/15 Character's in a day. Besides who actually likes rotating to an extra 57 Character's. While I said we've all known several who burn out in 1 or 2 years that way with half that many, unless they botting which also violates the Service agreement.
So limiting it to 18/24/30 Celestial Coins &/or 9/12/15 Ardent is about the only way, to rewards the more frequently played Character's people use, rather than those who just login for 2 seconds to pray, and doing nothing else on those characters.
You'd still be welcome to run Sybella's quests for Heroic Metals, 2 quests each day.
――――― Update:
The decision however isn't yours or mine to make, all we can do is express an opinion, hopefully being respectful. I just wanted to mostly come to support someone else, as I thought their position was very fair and reasonable position to make.
Post edited by strathkin on
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
That's bold statement. Clearly you don't understand the word, it's often syn·on·y·mous with those who mostly take things in excess. "Therefore, we can say that selfishness is self-interest carried to excess." or people taking far more than their fair share. This is what the other poster tried to explain, politely, just as I'm trying to do.
Excess: ╘ 2 Celestial coins x 57 Character (limit) or excess case, see's 57 Celestial Chests every 6.5 days. ╘ or 263 (max) Celestial Chests a month per account, or 789 every quarter.
Therefore (∴) at 3 Coal's (average) per 100 chests, identified by another, having maybe half (max) # of character's he could. ╘ that's 3 (100) + 3 (200) + 3 (300) + 3 (400) + 3 (500) + 3 (500) +3 (600) +3 (700) + 2/3 (68) = 23 maybe 24 isn't excess?
That's a very valuable reward, and you think possibly 24 Coal's at 1,000 ZEN (base cost) each or 24,000 ZEN is fair for one person to receive every 3 months? Some even take things farther with 2, or 3 accounts. That # maybe even smaller %, yet suspect some take it that far.
They won't increase the drop chance even 1-2% without limiting how many Celestial Coins &/or Ardent Coins, can be earned by those character's who are reasonably actually played. They also couldn't offer Highest Blessings of the God's (0.5% - 0.7%) stacking chance each prayer, to receive a extra Potion, or perhaps Gem, unless they limit prayers to no more than 9/12/15 Character's in a day. Besides who actually likes rotating to 57 Character's, as I said before I known several who burn out in 1 or 2 years that way, unless they botting which also violates the Service agreement.
So limiting it to 18/24/30 Celestial Coins &/or 9/12/15 Ardent is about the only way, to rewards the more frequently played Character's people use, rather than those who just login for 2 seconds to pray, and doing nothing else on those characters.
You'd still be welcome to run Sybella's quests for Heroic Metals, 2 quests each day.
Why should people who have that many alts, who PAID for those characters suffer from this suggestion of yours? Why is your way of playing the game any less than another player's way of playing the game.
Just because you know some people who got burned out from playing with a lot of alts, doesn't mean that others don't and are in no way represents a majority. I know many players who have played for 5+ years with armies of characters that get rotated every mod to keep them current. Some people also 'retire' older characters and it would make sense that a retired person would still be earning income in real life, so why not in a game?
There should not be some arbitrary limit to account wide celestial coins generation. There isn't some limit to how many coins there are in the game, so there is not a fair share that has limits either. This is just an unnecessary limit to punish established players, which is an already diminishing population.
True, but as I said I'm not wanting to debate it, and per the update (above) I mostly wanted to support someone else. Because I thought their arguments were very fair and reasonable in fact.
The cost for character's is cheap, it's 250 ZEN for 2 (normal cost) and at 35% off (black friday) is less than 170 ZEN. So 10 Characters is less than 850 ZEN, and 40 more be barely less than 3400 ZEN, then last 3 (6) more to top it off be another 510 ZEN, it not be even 4750 ZEN if done on one of the two 35% off sales, mostly when those users buy them.
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――― Therefore (∴) at 3 Coal's (average) per 100 chests, identified by another, having half (max) # of character's he could. ╘ that's 3 (100) + 3 (200) + 3 (300) + 3 (400) + 3 (500) + 3 (500) +3 (600) +3 (700) + 2/3 (68 to 89) = 23 maybe 24 isn't excess?
As I said you could possibly earn a (max) of 789 Celestial Chests each quarter, if fully maximized... ―――――
Now if someone invested (less than) 5000 ZEN, yet is getting 24,000 (free) ZEN in value every 3 months, or 96,000 ZEN a year. Some may not even have invested anything, just sold 5,000 ZEN worth of diamonds. Yet you made far more than your investment back in the first year alone, in fact it's possibly paid itself almost 20x that in the first year alone! Yet a few have suggested then, they should get a refund after year's of grand payouts? Why, they can still play the character's...
They've allowed this perhaps oversight, for 5-9 years, as they've slowly clawed back some features, which have mostly penalized the more moderate who very fair, and reasonable. I just think rewards should be focused on those who have more moderate character limits, rather than someone who is logging in 1-2 seconds on (max) # of Character's or Alt Armies as they call them. They could still do Sybella's quests for Heroic Metals, however that would take 15-25 minutes per mission and some people don't like that. Yet were the ones being called selfish, all cause we'd like slightly more for the character's we play more often?
Instead of a simple couple of keystrokes - why not make it more 'engaging' by having players do the same stupid craptastic finger twisting motions they do while 'fishing'?
Remember when they 'enhanced' the Winter Fest fishing this way? It's probably going to be something similar for invoking.
Why should people who have that many alts, who PAID for those characters suffer from this suggestion of yours? Why is your way of playing the game any less than another player's way of playing the game.
Just because you know some people who got burned out from playing with a lot of alts, doesn't mean that others don't and are in no way represents a majority. I know many players who have played for 5+ years with armies of characters that get rotated every mod to keep them current. Some people also 'retire' older characters and it would make sense that a retired person would still be earning income in real life, so why not in a game?
There should not be some arbitrary limit to account wide celestial coins generation. There isn't some limit to how many coins there are in the game, so there is not a fair share that has limits either. This is just an unnecessary limit to punish established players, which is an already diminishing population.
I know at least 24 ~28 players, who have their VIP for next 2 years, though they don't even play this game anymore. And they didnt paid for game. All VIP"S where secured by farming ZAX, and AD gained by gained via bots and Barovia hunt glitch.
So what kind payment you talk about?
Also I want to repeat my very first message from first post in this thread.
The system should reward players who actually play, not one who have largest alt farms.
I am not against players who have alts. I am for players who have alts, and actually even getting better rewards. But I am against those who have hordes of alts who nevere ever ever step outside of Protector enclave, never done quest, campaign, or done any dungeon. While their whole purpose is just invoke farming.
You say that change would insult players who spent time, build their alts and played with them. Actually it would be opposite.
What I aim is that, repalce this old system and implement new one, which would reward players who actually play with alts.
The current situation is more and insult to those who spent their time with alts.
Some of my previous games had system, that if you spent x time in game, you receive gift. Also if you play with multiple characters( alts) reward is increased. But condition is to play with them, not just have them.
Now tell me how much you are you rewarded for playing Neverwinter? Or how much you are rewarded if you have one or two alts?
As you can see I am not against alts, I am for players who have dedication and spent time to build them. But I am against those who run multiple alt account and use them only for invation farming.
See the difference.
So tell me, do you want get better rewarded for spending time in game and for that you have multiple alt chracters, or not?? Or you prefer current system and rewards?
Choose.
Same goes for you @trinity706#8838 And safe to say, rest for playerbase. Time to pick. We keep this old system and rewards or we get over with it, and try make something better.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,224Arc User
edited August 2022
I personally have no problem if it needs to do more to get certain reward. I have problem with the account cap idea proposed above. Even that, it is about I have a principal problem instead of a real personal problem.
Invocation gives me at least 2 major rewards and some minor rewards at the moment. Major reward 1: the coffer. Major reward 2: 50% AD bonus.
The 2nd one was already nerf'ed. Cryptic reduced that amount not too long ago. In addition, you can't take advantage of it unless you did at least 5 invocations and you play. I viewed the 2nd reward is more important than the 1st to my game play.
Do I want to have better reward? Yes. However, 'better' is in the eye of the beholder. Their 'better' usually do not translate to my 'better'. When they say change, I expect a nerf. When they say 'better', I expect a nerf.
As I said, it is their game. What I want/like does not really matter. My tolerance level is pretty high too. So, they can bring it on for whatever reward/nerf it will be.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
The system should reward players who actually play, not one who have largest alt farms.
...
I am not against players who have alts. I am for players who have alts, and actually even getting better rewards. But I am against those who have hordes of alts who never ever ever step outside of Protector enclave, never done quest, campaign, or done any dungeon. While their whole purpose is just invoke farming.
I agree whole heartedly here. That was more the approach they took with Sybella, as I mentioned before.
As I eluded too as well earlier, I believe @plasticbat still fits in the more moderate realm, and may only have slightly more than 20 characters, as with my (9) if I maxed all prayers each week, I could earn at most (40.5) Celestial Chests a month; even though I often don't. He indicated he earns a little more than 100, and may only have 24 Characters to earn (108) Celestial Chests each month, which is still a reasonable limit; if many were created before Loadouts! He also spends considerable time helping those on the forums as well.
――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――― So maybe they adapt what we have so after each invocation, the God depending on (alignment) or how he's feeling each day may on some prayer's ask you to do 1 &/or 2 special tasks/missions after a prayer is heard, one that is time-gated at the time it is given. If you complete the task then you receive approval, or high approval, while if you fail (mission) he might be slightly disappointed, or greatly disappointed if you never even attempt it. Depending how you approach the issue, as some missions may even involve choices based on what was discovered. Some days God's might ask you more, others sometimes might ask less, that might also be based on how much you ask of them as well. Still there are many ways they could implement this... Might not always be a fight, could be to speak to a NPC's and learn the concerns of your God or his/her followers, similar (aligned) God's may have (some) similar quests with others more unique, depending on their beliefs.
The focus would be though, those who want lots of the best rewards (quick & easy) may now have to actually work to earn their God's approval. That sort of thing... Those decisions aren't up to us though, and they will do what they think is best, and fair.
That's one way they could implement it without limiting Celestial Coins &/or Ardent Coins (with daily / per account) limits. ―――――――
So do you pray (often) ignoring the asks of your God making him more disappointed, or do you more often answer his/her call making them more pleased? That might even indicate how it might influences your chance of various rewards, each month or quarter as well. That might tie into the Wrath of the God's idea, &/or Highest Blessing of the God's from the OP as well.
There are certainly different ways to consider, how to approach this for sure!
Post edited by strathkin on
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Yet there are people who have the character cap and can't participate in the levelling event because all their toons are already well equipped and they don't want to delete any of them to start all over again. We aren't talking about those with mules, but people who actually use that many characters.
Sybella is something not related to invocations btw.
I know, yet it also requires playing the character to earn the rewards, where currently Invocations does not; as the other person said playing a character isn't logging in 1-2 seconds 6x a day. Especially when the cost to max Character's is less than 5,000 ZEN yet could possibly award 20x over a year.
So perhaps assigning time-gating missions following some prayers might require more playing. Giving (sometimes) time gated Missions following a prayer, would give you something to actually do! Do you earn their favor, attempt it yet perhaps answer some questions wrong earning a neutral response, or slightly disappoint them because you never attempted it! This could be based on many Factors... Sometimes tasks may be smaller, others a few might be more moderate task at different intervals, sometimes larger tasks are asked for those who request the most of the God's.
Keeping your God happy though will be influenced on many factor's, so learning all we can about each could be a more central part of the story, and linked to the Adventuring Guild quests as you level as well.
It might also be fun learning more about each God in relation to D&D Lore, might also offer something unique during the Gift of the God's event based on your chosen God too!
Having the invocation system being reasonably more “involved” for rewards, fine, though capping what players can get from the system itself because some players choosing not to utilize more characters don’t like the benefits of those that do, not fine.
Also if “they” actually put the effort in to disable/minimize botting on PC, console players wouldn’t keep getting all the trash updates/changes while the bots keep botting and the changes stay regardless…
You see, as long as the bots are left alone and are able to effectively bot, there is a scapegoat to blame for overbearing changes made to the game…
But I am against those who have hordes of alts who nevere ever ever step outside of Protector enclave, never done quest, campaign, or done any dungeon. While their whole purpose is just invoke farming.
Players that only invoke on characters don’t have boons (that can’t be acquired with genie’s gifts/campaign completion tokens), don’t have dungeons unlocked, etc. The stats on a character without boons (even with purchased high iLvl equipment) suffers because the boons bring stats up so that they are not reduced as much by scaling. Sure they can probably purchase enchantments, companions, mounts, artifacts, weapons, some equipment, etc. though some of the best rewards/items in the game CANNOT BE BOUGHT WITH AD so saying “invokers” get more from just invoking than players that “play” the game simply isn’t true.
With AD alone you can buy absolutely NOTHING from the campaign stores...
In actuality a player that only invokes will more than likely spend more AD overall, because they pretty much have to lol…
Now tell me how much you are you rewarded for playing Neverwinter? Or how much you are rewarded if you have one or two alts?
A player with 1-2 characters can get the SAME things in the game as someone with 50 so what is your point exactly? The difference here being that although the player with 50 characters can get Celestial Coffers faster, the player with 1-2 characters has a LOT more time to run content and get rewards that in total not only out value the Coalescent Motes the player with 50 can get faster, but also get rewards that can't be bought with AD…
I know, yet it also requires playing the character to earn the rewards, where currently Invocations does not; as the other person said playing a character isn't logging in 1-2 seconds 6x a day. I also don't like when I want to play a character I have to wait at least for the first invocation to be done of 9, while others may have 5-6x that to do, then when your done the first cycle go to rotate again.
Please stop trying to dictate how people play their characters… on an account they created… with Zen they spent… Also please stop comparing your consciously and willfully limited capacity of play/rewards of 9 characters with someone with more characters/time to play than you…
You don’t have to wait for anything:
1.) Invoke on them all. 2.) Play a character(s) until the timer is up. 3.) Repeat the process.
By the time you get done invoking on 9 characters (whether it is x1 or x6) a player with 20+ characters probably won’t even be halfway done... In other words, while you are running around after getting done invoking, getting rewards, doing whatever, they will probably still be switching characters/loading in if they were to invoke the same number of times on all their characters…
***Not including the time between invokes, only the time to load in and out of the game*** - It takes about 6 minutes total to invoke on 2 characters 6x each. - It would take about 1 HOUR total to invoke on 20 characters 6x each. - It would take about 2.5 HOURS total to invoke on 50 characters 6x each.
That would leave a 2 character player with: - 54 minutes over the player with 20 characters to do whatever... like run all 4 RQ's and get around 100k AD... - 2.24 HOURS over the player with 50 characters to do whatever... that's 2 days worth of running all 4 RQ's...
The rewards from the current invocation system outside of Coalescent Motes, 50% BRAD (bonus rough astral diamonds) and some particular coupons, are pretty much trash (the bags can STILL drop marks of potency that are no longer used and the refinement total from dozens and dozens of bags can be dwarfed by the refinement dropped from a “few” groups of enemies or one dungeon chest).
The rewards combined over pretty much ANY length of time in regard to the time spent ONLY invoking arguably does not really amount to what a player can get from running content in the same amount of time AND also invoking...
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Well they've clearly heard from people on both sides, so all we can do now is wait, and see what they eventually come up with. Cryptic is often very fair, especially to those who don't go too far...
Comments
@strathkin @hadestemplar your suggestions are overbearing and selfish. Why? You are NOT negatively effected by them in any shape or form while others with considerably more characters than you, are negatively effected. To be honest you are NO WHERE near the position to suggest limiting anyone, especially those with considerably more characters and time to play than you. Quite the nerve and gall you have there to even think about doing so, let alone parading the suggestions as benefiting the player base while still benefiting the players they are aimed against.
Your suggestions will be easily circumvented. How? It would simply take creating “x” more accounts to get back to the number of Celestial Coins gained prior... Did you even think about that at all? Probably not. People will STILL be getting the SAME AMOUNT OF CELESTIAL COINS AS BEFORE, so what will those suggested limits actually do? Nothing really... All of those thoughts and ideas of how to limit/punish players with more characters tossed to the side…
Now what?...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
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Excess might be considered by some having:
╘ 2 Celestial coins x 57 Character (limit) to receive 57 Celestial Chests every 6.5 days, or 42 characters just to pray.
╘ that's 263 (max) Celestial Chests a month per account, or 789 every quarter.
Therefore (∴) 3 Coal's (average) per 100 chest, identified by another who earned (325 chest) every 3 months. So that is certainly less than half the possible 789 chests if (max) is 58 Characters.
╘ is 3 (100) + 3 (200) + 3 (300) + 3 (400) + 3 (500) + 3 (500) +3 (600) +3 (700) + 2/3 (68 to 89) = 23 or 24 isn't excess?
―――――
That's a very valuable reward, and you think possibly 24 Coal's at 1,000 ZEN (base cost) each or 24,000 ZEN is fair for one person to receive every 3 months? Some even take things farther with 2, or 3 accounts. That # maybe even smaller %, yet suspect some take it that far. That's based on an initial investment of < 4750 ZEN, if they even paid for it, some just waited to earn Diamonds then waited DZE to acquire the ZEN.
They won't increase the drop chance even 1-2% without limiting how many Celestial Coins &/or Ardent Coins are earned by those who go to extremes. They also couldn't offer Highest Blessings of the God's (0.5% - 0.7%) stacking chance each prayer, to receive a extra Potion, or perhaps Gem, unless they limit prayers to no more than 9/12/15 Character's in a day. Besides who actually likes rotating to an extra 57 Character's. While I said we've all known several who burn out in 1 or 2 years that way with half that many, unless they botting which also violates the Service agreement.
So limiting it to 18/24/30 Celestial Coins &/or 9/12/15 Ardent is about the only way, to rewards the more frequently played Character's people use, rather than those who just login for 2 seconds to pray, and doing nothing else on those characters.
You'd still be welcome to run Sybella's quests for Heroic Metals, 2 quests each day.
―――――
Update:
The decision however isn't yours or mine to make, all we can do is express an opinion, hopefully being respectful. I just wanted to mostly come to support someone else, as I thought their position was very fair and reasonable position to make.
Just because you know some people who got burned out from playing with a lot of alts, doesn't mean that others don't and are in no way represents a majority. I know many players who have played for 5+ years with armies of characters that get rotated every mod to keep them current. Some people also 'retire' older characters and it would make sense that a retired person would still be earning income in real life, so why not in a game?
There should not be some arbitrary limit to account wide celestial coins generation. There isn't some limit to how many coins there are in the game, so there is not a fair share that has limits either. This is just an unnecessary limit to punish established players, which is an already diminishing population.
The cost for character's is cheap, it's 250 ZEN for 2 (normal cost) and at 35% off (black friday) is less than 170 ZEN. So 10 Characters is less than 850 ZEN, and 40 more be barely less than 3400 ZEN, then last 3 (6) more to top it off be another 510 ZEN, it not be even 4750 ZEN if done on one of the two 35% off sales, mostly when those users buy them.
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Therefore (∴) at 3 Coal's (average) per 100 chests, identified by another, having half (max) # of character's he could.
╘ that's 3 (100) + 3 (200) + 3 (300) + 3 (400) + 3 (500) + 3 (500) +3 (600) +3 (700) + 2/3 (68 to 89) = 23 maybe 24 isn't excess?
As I said you could possibly earn a (max) of 789 Celestial Chests each quarter, if fully maximized...
―――――
Now if someone invested (less than) 5000 ZEN, yet is getting 24,000 (free) ZEN in value every 3 months, or 96,000 ZEN a year. Some may not even have invested anything, just sold 5,000 ZEN worth of diamonds. Yet you made far more than your investment back in the first year alone, in fact it's possibly paid itself almost 20x that in the first year alone! Yet a few have suggested then, they should get a refund after year's of grand payouts? Why, they can still play the character's...
They've allowed this perhaps oversight, for 5-9 years, as they've slowly clawed back some features, which have mostly penalized the more moderate who very fair, and reasonable. I just think rewards should be focused on those who have more moderate character limits, rather than someone who is logging in 1-2 seconds on (max) # of Character's or Alt Armies as they call them. They could still do Sybella's quests for Heroic Metals, however that would take 15-25 minutes per mission and some people don't like that. Yet were the ones being called selfish, all cause we'd like slightly more for the character's we play more often?
*sigh* :*
Instead of a simple couple of keystrokes - why not make it more 'engaging' by having players do the same stupid craptastic finger twisting motions they do while 'fishing'?
Remember when they 'enhanced' the Winter Fest fishing this way? It's probably going to be something similar for invoking.
So what kind payment you talk about?
Also I want to repeat my very first message from first post in this thread.
The system should reward players who actually play, not one who have largest alt farms.
I am not against players who have alts. I am for players who have alts, and actually even getting better rewards. But I am against those who have hordes of alts who nevere ever ever step outside of Protector enclave, never done quest, campaign, or done any dungeon. While their whole purpose is just invoke farming.
You say that change would insult players who spent time, build their alts and played with them.
Actually it would be opposite.
What I aim is that, repalce this old system and implement new one, which would reward players who actually play with alts.
The current situation is more and insult to those who spent their time with alts.
Some of my previous games had system, that if you spent x time in game, you receive gift. Also if you play with multiple characters( alts) reward is increased. But condition is to play with them, not just have them.
Now tell me how much you are you rewarded for playing Neverwinter? Or how much you are rewarded if you have one or two alts?
As you can see I am not against alts, I am for players who have dedication and spent time to build them. But I am against those who run multiple alt account and use them only for invation farming.
See the difference.
So tell me, do you want get better rewarded for spending time in game and for that you have multiple alt chracters, or not??
Or you prefer current system and rewards?
Choose.
Same goes for you @trinity706#8838 And safe to say, rest for playerbase. Time to pick. We keep this old system and rewards or we get over with it, and try make something better.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Invocation gives me at least 2 major rewards and some minor rewards at the moment.
Major reward 1: the coffer.
Major reward 2: 50% AD bonus.
The 2nd one was already nerf'ed. Cryptic reduced that amount not too long ago. In addition, you can't take advantage of it unless you did at least 5 invocations and you play. I viewed the 2nd reward is more important than the 1st to my game play.
Do I want to have better reward? Yes. However, 'better' is in the eye of the beholder. Their 'better' usually do not translate to my 'better'. When they say change, I expect a nerf. When they say 'better', I expect a nerf.
As I said, it is their game. What I want/like does not really matter. My tolerance level is pretty high too. So, they can bring it on for whatever reward/nerf it will be.
As I eluded too as well earlier, I believe @plasticbat still fits in the more moderate realm, and may only have slightly more than 20 characters, as with my (9) if I maxed all prayers each week, I could earn at most (40.5) Celestial Chests a month; even though I often don't. He indicated he earns a little more than 100, and may only have 24 Characters to earn (108) Celestial Chests each month, which is still a reasonable limit; if many were created before Loadouts! He also spends considerable time helping those on the forums as well.
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So maybe they adapt what we have so after each invocation, the God depending on (alignment) or how he's feeling each day may on some prayer's ask you to do 1 &/or 2 special tasks/missions after a prayer is heard, one that is time-gated at the time it is given. If you complete the task then you receive approval, or high approval, while if you fail (mission) he might be slightly disappointed, or greatly disappointed if you never even attempt it. Depending how you approach the issue, as some missions may even involve choices based on what was discovered. Some days God's might ask you more, others sometimes might ask less, that might also be based on how much you ask of them as well. Still there are many ways they could implement this... Might not always be a fight, could be to speak to a NPC's and learn the concerns of your God or his/her followers, similar (aligned) God's may have (some) similar quests with others more unique, depending on their beliefs.
The focus would be though, those who want lots of the best rewards (quick & easy) may now have to actually work to earn their God's approval. That sort of thing... Those decisions aren't up to us though, and they will do what they think is best, and fair.
That's one way they could implement it without limiting Celestial Coins &/or Ardent Coins (with daily / per account) limits.
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So do you pray (often) ignoring the asks of your God making him more disappointed, or do you more often answer his/her call making them more pleased? That might even indicate how it might influences your chance of various rewards, each month or quarter as well. That might tie into the Wrath of the God's idea, &/or Highest Blessing of the God's from the OP as well.
There are certainly different ways to consider, how to approach this for sure!
Sybella is something not related to invocations btw.
I know, yet it also requires playing the character to earn the rewards, where currently Invocations does not; as the other person said playing a character isn't logging in 1-2 seconds 6x a day. Especially when the cost to max Character's is less than 5,000 ZEN yet could possibly award 20x over a year.
So perhaps assigning time-gating missions following some prayers might require more playing. Giving (sometimes) time gated Missions following a prayer, would give you something to actually do! Do you earn their favor, attempt it yet perhaps answer some questions wrong earning a neutral response, or slightly disappoint them because you never attempted it! This could be based on many Factors... Sometimes tasks may be smaller, others a few might be more moderate task at different intervals, sometimes larger tasks are asked for those who request the most of the God's.
Keeping your God happy though will be influenced on many factor's, so learning all we can about each could be a more central part of the story, and linked to the Adventuring Guild quests as you level as well.
It might also be fun learning more about each God in relation to D&D Lore, might also offer something unique during the Gift of the God's event based on your chosen God too!
Also if “they” actually put the effort in to disable/minimize botting on PC, console players wouldn’t keep getting all the trash updates/changes while the bots keep botting and the changes stay regardless…
You see, as long as the bots are left alone and are able to effectively bot, there is a scapegoat to blame for overbearing changes made to the game… The system does reward players that play their characters, if you run content you get 50% BRAD (bonus rough AD). If you only invoke, you don’t. Players that only invoke on characters don’t have boons (that can’t be acquired with genie’s gifts/campaign completion tokens), don’t have dungeons unlocked, etc. The stats on a character without boons (even with purchased high iLvl equipment) suffers because the boons bring stats up so that they are not reduced as much by scaling. Sure they can probably purchase enchantments, companions, mounts, artifacts, weapons, some equipment, etc. though some of the best rewards/items in the game CANNOT BE BOUGHT WITH AD so saying “invokers” get more from just invoking than players that “play” the game simply isn’t true.
With AD alone you can buy absolutely NOTHING from the campaign stores...
In actuality a player that only invokes will more than likely spend more AD overall, because they pretty much have to lol… A player with 1-2 characters can get the SAME things in the game as someone with 50 so what is your point exactly? The difference here being that although the player with 50 characters can get Celestial Coffers faster, the player with 1-2 characters has a LOT more time to run content and get rewards that in total not only out value the Coalescent Motes the player with 50 can get faster, but also get rewards that can't be bought with AD… Please stop trying to dictate how people play their characters… on an account they created… with Zen they spent… Also please stop comparing your consciously and willfully limited capacity of play/rewards of 9 characters with someone with more characters/time to play than you…
You don’t have to wait for anything:
1.) Invoke on them all.
2.) Play a character(s) until the timer is up.
3.) Repeat the process.
By the time you get done invoking on 9 characters (whether it is x1 or x6) a player with 20+ characters probably won’t even be halfway done... In other words, while you are running around after getting done invoking, getting rewards, doing whatever, they will probably still be switching characters/loading in if they were to invoke the same number of times on all their characters…
***Not including the time between invokes, only the time to load in and out of the game***
- It takes about 6 minutes total to invoke on 2 characters 6x each.
- It would take about 1 HOUR total to invoke on 20 characters 6x each.
- It would take about 2.5 HOURS total to invoke on 50 characters 6x each.
That would leave a 2 character player with:
- 54 minutes over the player with 20 characters to do whatever... like run all 4 RQ's and get around 100k AD...
- 2.24 HOURS over the player with 50 characters to do whatever... that's 2 days worth of running all 4 RQ's...
The rewards from the current invocation system outside of Coalescent Motes, 50% BRAD (bonus rough astral diamonds) and some particular coupons, are pretty much trash (the bags can STILL drop marks of potency that are no longer used and the refinement total from dozens and dozens of bags can be dwarfed by the refinement dropped from a “few” groups of enemies or one dungeon chest).
The rewards combined over pretty much ANY length of time in regard to the time spent ONLY invoking arguably does not really amount to what a player can get from running content in the same amount of time AND also invoking...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen