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nCoK in RTQ???

thomasschwandathomasschwanda Member Posts: 11 Arc User
edited June 2022 in General Discussion (PC)
Are you serious? 90% of the players never set foot in CoK and now you throw it in RTQ? I tried a couple runs just to see, and yes most ppl have no clue how to finish it and do mechanics? Its a 30k IL to do RTQ, and how many did you think did CoK at 30k??? Can you please pass what you are drinking, it must be pretty good. I just wanna know what you are thinking when you make so stupid changes.... REMOVE IT!!! And PS, yes i can finish CoK Master on my 77k TR. But this is just stupid. Its gonna be Demogorgon in RTQ all over, all abandonned instances and ppl will start only bringing HDPS and exp players for RTQ... RTQ shout be for new players learning the game and their character. Ty for breaking RTQ once again....

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    mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    New raids will always be a mess when they add it to RTQ. Yet I am happy they DO add new stuff.

    We gotta give it a few months to see how it works out. It was the same with Demo, it took some time to figure out the mechanics. Problem with Demo was that it turned out the mechanics was too ill suited for a basically PUG team, so it is being reworked and tuned down.

    Let's see in a few months how nCoK works out.
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    thomasschwandathomasschwanda Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    > @mentinmindmaker said:
    > New raids will always be a mess when they add it to RTQ. Yet I am happy they DO add new stuff.
    >
    > We gotta give it a few months to see how it works out. It was the same with Demo, it took some time to figure out the mechanics. Problem with Demo was that it turned out the mechanics was too ill suited for a basically PUG team, so it is being reworked and tuned down.
    >
    > Let's see in a few months how nCoK works out.

    Yeah saw what happened when demo dropped. 80% of the time an abandonned instance. And demo has more or less no mechanics. Kill portals, kills boss. In CoK you have much more mechanics that can kill the group from a bomb, miasma everywhere. Tanks need to swap aggro, so we dont lose a tank and cant separate drake and valindra. And why is demo not back in rtq then? Its been out for a long time. I dont live in a fairytale world where i expect pugs to nail Cok mechanics in a rtq.
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    aslan3775aslan3775 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 295 Arc User
    Not to hijack the post, but on a similar concept to releasing nCoK is the release of the new Tiamat. Already we have people leaving the instance as soon as they get Tiamat. People have no idea that if you die, you are behind a wall, just like the other trials. The mechanics are all new etc. But it definitely brings back the "rage quit instance" like Demo did several months ago.

    But I would like people to just give it a chance--this is an opportunity to try something new. Prepare to take some time and not necessarily smash buttons to get your 40K rAD.
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    chaderickrax#3780 chaderickrax
    chaderickrax#3780
         Member Posts: 245 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    Devs also want to change how players approach Trials in general. They don't want new players to be able to dive in blind, they want players to interact with each other more. If you want easy mode rAD, RDQ and RSQ had their rewards increased, or even RADQ if you are higher item level. It will take a few weeks for players to realize the shift, but hopefully you'll start to see more engaged players in trials in a few weeks.

    This feels like a double-edged sword. On one hand, it feels like a lot of players are coming at the game with the perspective of, "If it challenges me, I'm out of here." On the other hand, players who know mechanics seem to take the approach of, "If you don't know as much as me, you shouldn't have come along."

    I only started at the end of 2020, but even a year ago, people were willing to help me through a random queue. I don't know what caused the shift. Maybe it's just all these needless changes by Cryptic poisoned the well, and everyone who still logs in is just bitter.
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    lolilevebylolileveby Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    I'm a bit of an introvert so I tend to pug a lot of dungeons I do when my guild aren't around but to me it's somewhat depressing to go into a random and find people giving up as soon as they go in. I spend a lot of my game time teaching in the dungeons I do and find that at least rewarding but the trials, I always saw them as a bit of fun with a few mechanics thrown in. Now, with CoK and the new Tiamat it's just offputting. Even endgame players I've spoken to are saying they're just not enjoying the new content. It's not fun anymore.
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    mintmarkmintmark Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 407 Arc User
    Seems a good time to mention a related problem... the inability to even enter the fight if you arrive late. For example, you get a disconnection loading the map for the trial... your next login attempt times out ("player is still logging out"), your next attempt works, but by then the team has started... and all you can do is watch. I've had this with cradle and svardborg. Not had the new ones yet.
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    mignon#7663 mignon
    mignon#7663
         Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    The solution to this is to give players somewhere to learn the mechanics in game, like when doing the campaign to unlock the dungeon/trial. Not everybody goes to Youtube and listen to content creators that sometimes "most of the time in my opinion" have no clue what they are saying, just to learn mechanics of certain content. I like challenging content and have been looking forward to these new trials, I would even like to see nCOK being a bit harder so ppl are forced to play mechanics. In normal Zariel everybody just ignored all mechanics from when it was released and its been too easy to complete from the start. Keep in mind i'm only 59K IL, but have completed all content thus far except Master Tiamat.
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    arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    Or you could just say in chat, hey I don't know this trial, any tips would be great. There won't be a whole bunch of new mechanics, just more "hey focus damage on adds when they spawn or the dragon gets buffed", or other similar short explanations. Players in trials should already know that standing in red is bad, group up with Hypo, move movable AOE attacks away from the group, etc.
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    zaxturi#8203 zaxturi
    zaxturi#8203
         Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I think having ncok and ntiamat in rtq is good gives us something new to do outside of the same old svardborg and codg. Also i have done both in the new rtq and they seem to be well balanced to me maybe a bit easy in ncoks case. The problem with demo was that it needed too much damage for most rtq groups to complete it in a timely manner. Also the bugs didint help with completing it.

    If people would just open their mouths if they dont know any of the mechanics that would be very helpful but for some reason people seem to think they can do all random que content without knowing any mechanics or saying anything to anybody.
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    plan009plan009 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    zaxturi#8203 said:

    If people would just open their mouths if they dont know any of the mechanics that would be very helpful but for some reason people seem to think they can do all random que content without knowing any mechanics or saying anything to anybody.

    That’s because of the toxicity. You take your chance on getting yelled at, bullied or kicked. Yes, someone might help, but how many new players want to deal with that possibility? Run with friends, sure, run with randoms, no. People see the toxicity even without asking questions, so why would they want to invite that?

    I mean, I had someone calling me stupid just because I was dead, the timer ran out and I went to the campfire. He was going on about how he can’t believe someone would just “release” (before he could get to them). Apparently he didn’t notice I couldn’t be rezd and prefers to be rude rather than just be quiet. Even if I had released early, what he said didn’t help anything but his ego.

    Another time I was enjoying slipping and sliding on ice in IG and suddenly found myself back in PE. I was the strongest there, but I guess not being serious at all times is a kickable offense. And these two examples were some of the nicer things that have happened, mentioned because I got grief when I knew what I was doing. I’ve had people actively try to get me killed and tell me to die, not just leave, die, because I was using tactics they didn’t understand and didn’t want to understand. I sat out for a while and let them work for it while I reported them. Even then, the tank was trying to drag mobs to me (oh, no, I’ll die and go back to the campfire, lol). It was Spellplague and at the end, even after sitting out some, I was top dps. They would’ve had a much easier time if they hadn’t acted like psychotic children, lol.
    "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." - Socrates
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    starrlight#7491 starrlight
    starrlight#7491
         Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    arazith07 said:

    Or you could just say in chat, hey I don't know this trial, any tips would be great. There won't be a whole bunch of new mechanics, just more "hey focus damage on adds when they spawn or the dragon gets buffed", or other similar short explanations. Players in trials should already know that standing in red is bad, group up with Hypo, move movable AOE attacks away from the group, etc.

    Just want to say that I did this the first time I got CoK and got no response.

    I don't think there's anything wrong with having more difficult mechanics in random content, but I do agree that it would be nice to have a space to learn them where it doesn't come at the detriment of the entire 10-person group. Especially if missing one mechanic results in pretty disastrous effects, or if a lot hinges on the tanks/healers knowing a specific strategy. (I may be biased, though - with a paladin I don't have much choice around only having 1 other backup if I mess up)

    Relying on players to communicate is never going to be as effective in a random group as it is in private queues. using the chat is hard when you are in the middle of a fast-paced encounter and no one uses the in-game vc. IMO, there shouldn't be any mechanics like tank switching in random queues. things like that require a level of communication that isn't possible (well) outside of voice chat.

    If they DO want to use the above mechanics, then there should be a clear visual indicator (like with the shared hypos) so that the switch can be timed without needing to see the other player's buff bar.
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    orangenee#2931 orangenee
    orangenee#2931
         Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Speaking as a newbie who participated in trials for the first time today (both fails).

    One there was a lovely OHK, though somebody did try to warn me, but a few seconds too late. Couldn't glide my way behind cover, it was out of juice and I have the movement speed of a glacier currently. Dead, no pick up, leaver penalty it is.

    One was Death God's vault, that was a mess and a half. Two guys scarpered before we even started, got to the tentacle phase, died due to one shot by trash (I swear trash mobs are the actual bosses in this game), guy tried to get me up, couldn't make it. I stuck around, next guy died, then it was downhill from there.

    Either get rid of the leaver penalty or let me back in. STO isn't this harsh.

    Anyway, lesson learned, no trials for a year or two while I gear up.
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    cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Trials are now more difficult but they also increased the random dungeon and skirmish queues rAD rewards for those looking to get your rAD for the day. There are also more ways to get rAD in the normal content that is available such as completing the adventure zones you haven't done and places like zok in avernus, bel, under mountain hunts, seal trader, etc... Campaigns should be the focus for more early game players as there are different ways to progress. Eventually, in a short period of time you can move from adventures to campaigns to Random Advanced Dungeons and Trials. The minimum item level of content I believe for all content can be done but that minimum value is going to require you to be an expert at playing your toon for it to work unless other players in the group pick up the slack. I think minimum item level for everyone in a group with all new players in new content is too much for a trial to be successful. If you get that minimum group and lower knowledge of the game/class group your going to find the content to be as hard as the end game trials. The best thing for it is to reach out to a guild and find someone who will help you understand what is wrong or what help you need. This might mean watching some videos on what you need to do to improve before you can get to that next stage in completing content. This is an mmo so your no supposed to come into it and next day be doing the hardest content in the game. If the content was that easy everyone would leave after the first day. I think that the trials are at a good place right now in terms of difficulty as they have essentially 3 tiers of content now. Random dungeon and skirmish are the starter places for multiplayer content. This is where those that are building up should be running a least once daily. Random advanced dungeon and Random Trial queues are the next step up. This requires a few players in the group to at least know what to do in terms of mechanics. If your learning hear expect to fail on these as it isn't supposed to be a guaranteed victory like the earlier content. The master versions are then the end game and just harder to complete. They require players to have the gear, potions, scrolls, etc. to finish the content.

    Main thing is don't get discouraged if you fail when you try to step up in difficulty of content. The point of that is to show you what you need to work towards. Just start with reachable goals and move forward a little bit at a time.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
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    mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited July 2022
    orangenee#2931 said:

    Speaking as a newbie who participated in trials for the first time today (both fails).

    One there was a lovely OHK, though somebody did try to warn me, but a few seconds too late. Couldn't glide my way behind cover, it was out of juice and I have the movement speed of a glacier currently. Dead, no pick up, leaver penalty it is.

    One was Death God's vault, that was a mess and a half. Two guys scarpered before we even started, got to the tentacle phase, died due to one shot by trash (I swear trash mobs are the actual bosses in this game), guy tried to get me up, couldn't make it. I stuck around, next guy died, then it was downhill from there.

    Either get rid of the leaver penalty or let me back in. STO isn't this harsh.

    Anyway, lesson learned, no trials for a year or two while I gear up.

    You were in Svaborg and CoDG. While there must be some dps in team, key to both is knowing the tactics. Gearing up won't really help you. I suggest reading up on the tactics for both on the Web.. from there on all you can do is practice.

    The same goes for CoK really. I had a run where half the team died to missing personal skills. 5 of us kept whacking at the dragon for some 20 minutes, but we eventually had to give up since we had too low dps with half the team gone. The key takeaway is we survived and kept smacking him for 20 minutes because we knew what we were doing.

    Currently RTQ CoK wipes is a mix if inexperienced players/missing tactical understanding and low gear. It will get better.

    But when that is said: Cryptic always set the required IL to access these events way too low. Add +10k at least before going into them.
    Post edited by mentinmindmaker on
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    wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    Or you could just say in chat, hey I don't know this trial, any tips would be great. There won't be a whole bunch of new mechanics, just more "hey focus damage on adds when they spawn or the dragon gets buffed", or other similar short explanations. Players in trials should already know that standing in red is bad, group up with Hypo, move movable AOE attacks away from the group, etc.

    There is an announcement when there is a new player in the trial. That's your cue to speak up.
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