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Concerning issues with the Threat/Aggro system
masteryoda
Member Posts: 267 Arc User
Here's another post about the ridiculous threat system Ok so as a Paladin main we literally have a mechanic that increases threat, it gives no percentage, no proc condition just say increases threat generation, that is not something that can be turned off.
aside from that certain encounters and at-wills state, increased threat generation, does not state amounts.
And than you have a class feature which increases or decreases threat this has a percentage and is the only point as a Paladin interms of abilities where percentage is mentioned.
Next for threat generation is the ring of the condemned which also doesn't state any amount just says generate threat around you when you have been running for 1 second no mention of stacking or anything either.
Now we have the jewel of the north set which states 15% threat generation, but doesn't state a proc condition.
Soo here is the crux of the matter, 15% of what? When? Where does neverwinter provide this information for tanks to properly control threat? How are we meant to realistically test these things when there is other variables to consider? How much threat does any and all heals generate or any and all attacks for the DPS and healers?
the information that is available is so vague and mostly not even provided by the Devs but players trying to work it out themselves, and even than it can be difficult to find, not only good info but up to date info about a vital core mechanic.
So again finally it's hard to judge weather anything and everything that states increased threat generation works and if it states percentage it's difficult to understand what that even means when we can't see these actual numbers anywhere.
The only thing I can say I know for certain works is the ring and hard taunt abilities that instantly put you at the top of the threat list, even than I couldn't tell you the effectiveness of the ring I can just say it appears to do as it says.
Moreover if you start the game as a tank there is nothing that teaches you about threat at all again this is the core mechanic for tanks and we do not get any help working it out other than from other players, everyone gets taught about combat advantage but no one is taught about threat, I have seen so many tanks who do not have any understanding of the threat system and not just new players but yes new players will struggle the most performing their role as a tank.
I can't emphasize enough the ridiculousness of haveing a core mechanic for the past 7 years that is as vague as the threat system, literally all we have is a tiny little box with a traffic light system to judge threat with which doesn't apply to every monster around just the ones you have managed to pull.
Ways to rectify this issue could be add a threat stat to the stat page, make it more clear how much threat is generated by things that say increase threat generation, give us some solid numbers to work with, make the combat log a group combat log so tanks can see how much threat everyone is generating, and add a monster counter next to the treat bar so the tank can have at least a rough Idea of how many enemies are focused on him and how many enemies are focused on someone else.
I'll add that without some actual solid numbers as tanks we can't even say what is the best way to focus and balance treat generation or for us to balance offense stats and damage to prevent DPS and healers grabbing the aggro.
I expect as always the Devs will remain silent about this glaring issue. But seriously it's ridiculous that this hasn't already been sorted out across all these years.
It would be nice to hear some sort of response guys something to say you have seen our issue, or some answer to these problems, I know your busy with all the new mods and character reworks but this is a major system concerning an entire class role, might want to fix this before reworking character, but I don't know what do you think @cryptic39#8917 @nitocris83
aside from that certain encounters and at-wills state, increased threat generation, does not state amounts.
And than you have a class feature which increases or decreases threat this has a percentage and is the only point as a Paladin interms of abilities where percentage is mentioned.
Next for threat generation is the ring of the condemned which also doesn't state any amount just says generate threat around you when you have been running for 1 second no mention of stacking or anything either.
Now we have the jewel of the north set which states 15% threat generation, but doesn't state a proc condition.
Soo here is the crux of the matter, 15% of what? When? Where does neverwinter provide this information for tanks to properly control threat? How are we meant to realistically test these things when there is other variables to consider? How much threat does any and all heals generate or any and all attacks for the DPS and healers?
the information that is available is so vague and mostly not even provided by the Devs but players trying to work it out themselves, and even than it can be difficult to find, not only good info but up to date info about a vital core mechanic.
So again finally it's hard to judge weather anything and everything that states increased threat generation works and if it states percentage it's difficult to understand what that even means when we can't see these actual numbers anywhere.
The only thing I can say I know for certain works is the ring and hard taunt abilities that instantly put you at the top of the threat list, even than I couldn't tell you the effectiveness of the ring I can just say it appears to do as it says.
Moreover if you start the game as a tank there is nothing that teaches you about threat at all again this is the core mechanic for tanks and we do not get any help working it out other than from other players, everyone gets taught about combat advantage but no one is taught about threat, I have seen so many tanks who do not have any understanding of the threat system and not just new players but yes new players will struggle the most performing their role as a tank.
I can't emphasize enough the ridiculousness of haveing a core mechanic for the past 7 years that is as vague as the threat system, literally all we have is a tiny little box with a traffic light system to judge threat with which doesn't apply to every monster around just the ones you have managed to pull.
Ways to rectify this issue could be add a threat stat to the stat page, make it more clear how much threat is generated by things that say increase threat generation, give us some solid numbers to work with, make the combat log a group combat log so tanks can see how much threat everyone is generating, and add a monster counter next to the treat bar so the tank can have at least a rough Idea of how many enemies are focused on him and how many enemies are focused on someone else.
I'll add that without some actual solid numbers as tanks we can't even say what is the best way to focus and balance treat generation or for us to balance offense stats and damage to prevent DPS and healers grabbing the aggro.
I expect as always the Devs will remain silent about this glaring issue. But seriously it's ridiculous that this hasn't already been sorted out across all these years.
It would be nice to hear some sort of response guys something to say you have seen our issue, or some answer to these problems, I know your busy with all the new mods and character reworks but this is a major system concerning an entire class role, might want to fix this before reworking character, but I don't know what do you think @cryptic39#8917 @nitocris83
Post edited by masteryoda#6623 on
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Not sure if you have done so but searching for "Tank threat" in this forum returns many posts of interest and good reads, esp the one where Devs responded. Could help answer some of your concerns but alas there are more unanswered from the Devs that players care the most.
> Nicely written but you can tag the Devs/CM to your post so they may take notice.
>
> Not sure if you have done so but searching for "Tank threat" in this forum returns many posts of interest and good reads, esp the one where Devs responded. Could help answer some of your concerns but alas there are more unanswered from the Devs that players care the most.
Hi yeah I have no idea how to do that any advice is appreciated thank you
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
I think what an updated NWO HUD needs for Sentinel,Palladin and Fighter tank mode is digital VU meter style display addition, replacing the current red /green pill above our charname
(probably just 2;
one for a combined team/group/party threat level and one for the player character.)
If doable probably the best bet would make it possible for all classes to assign a stat possibly could make it 3 more, to a total of 5 meters that show ,say for a tank, as well as 2 threat DEF,awareness,deflect ,dps classes could also do with % assignable meters to stuff they want to keep track of on screen ,especially stuff like critical chance (that currently has no readout in the c-key info)
something that players can see changing in real time when actually playing..It would be nice to see some cool update to all that info and how we see it on the screen.. a readout for threat and critical chance or any of the other important stats that we could assign to even just 2 little ,standard VU ,green to(amber?) red ..like is on most audio devices, stereo,mixers etc.
forgive me if you think this would be useless.. just an idea I thought I would share after reading the thread.
> I have a feeling the real issue is that the developers that know how threat works in the game all left Cryptic Studios.
From the lack of response or acknowledgement from @cryptic39#8917 or @nitocris83 I'm guessing you're probably right 😞
> > @wilbur626 said:
> > I have a feeling the real issue is that the developers that know how threat works in the game all left Cryptic Studios.
>
> From the lack of response or acknowledgement from @cryptic39#8917 or @nitocris83 I'm guessing you're probably right 😞
>
I think tagging @rgutscheradev is our only hope for getting threat calculation insights
A revamp is on my list of things I want to do. Unfortunately that list is getting pretty long. But I do agree the threat system, and above all its readability, needs some love.
Sorry, not a great answer, I know. But I wanted to at least say we were aware.
Maybe you mean tanks from equal item level should have mechanics to hold agro better, but no way tanks get 100% agro no matter what the other players do lol
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> I agree that threat is not in a great place now, especially in terms of clarity, and double-especially for newer players.
>
> A revamp is on my list of things I want to do. Unfortunately that list is getting pretty long. But I do agree the threat system, and above all its readability, needs some love.
>
> Sorry, not a great answer, I know. But I wanted to at least say we were aware.
Thank you for the responce . I do appreciate the acknowledgement of the issue and hope you get the time to really focus this core mechanic. I can't imagine the length of that list but I do hope the threat system isn't near the bottom of that list 😉 thanks again for taking the time to respond.
It would eliminate a huge part of tanking mechanics and skill requirement and make tanking a lot less fun to do. all of our powers would then just be focused on survivability, and tanks would have no reason to contribute at all to damage. I think this is the problem that is seen with a lot of healers, and giving it to tanks would make the divide between support and dps even higher.
Also, sometimes strategy requires losing threat (or prioritizing targets). Tanks can't just be taking 100% of hits 100% of the time by default - dps do sometimes, in situations, manage mobs or field a specific enemy. hardcore content especially would be a nightmare with automatic tank threat priority.