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Please just get rid of the RTQ
feanor70118
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
There is no longer any point to the RTQ.
Crown of Keldegonn is too difficult for PUG groups to complete it. It is therefore just a waste of time and space.
Tiamat is gone, replaced with a pointless harder version that no one wants and no one asked for.
Demo is gone, because it was also replaced with a pointless harder version that no one wants and no one asked for.
Adding TOMM would be even worse than adding CoK, because TOMM is unbelievably tedious with its endlessly repetitive, dull and overpowered mechanics, and its pointless high difficulty.
A version of VOS that PUG groups can actually complete would be useful, since all the gear players want still comes from there, but of course that won't happen.
So now the only trials left that actually fulfill the purpose of the random queues - allowing players to get their daily RAD - are Svardbord and whatever the tedious push-pull thing is called. There are two left.
So just get rid of it. Add those two to the the skirmish list and increase the rewards to those currently obtained from the RTQ.
And redistribute rewards so that players can obtain worthwhile gear form any skirmish.
The people whose idea of a good time is spending 20 minutes organizing a raid and then 20 minutes on discord organizing everyone's different artifact and mount powers and checking their gear before entering an instance can still play all the pointlessly difficult, exclusionary content, and welcome to it.
Crown of Keldegonn is too difficult for PUG groups to complete it. It is therefore just a waste of time and space.
Tiamat is gone, replaced with a pointless harder version that no one wants and no one asked for.
Demo is gone, because it was also replaced with a pointless harder version that no one wants and no one asked for.
Adding TOMM would be even worse than adding CoK, because TOMM is unbelievably tedious with its endlessly repetitive, dull and overpowered mechanics, and its pointless high difficulty.
A version of VOS that PUG groups can actually complete would be useful, since all the gear players want still comes from there, but of course that won't happen.
So now the only trials left that actually fulfill the purpose of the random queues - allowing players to get their daily RAD - are Svardbord and whatever the tedious push-pull thing is called. There are two left.
So just get rid of it. Add those two to the the skirmish list and increase the rewards to those currently obtained from the RTQ.
And redistribute rewards so that players can obtain worthwhile gear form any skirmish.
The people whose idea of a good time is spending 20 minutes organizing a raid and then 20 minutes on discord organizing everyone's different artifact and mount powers and checking their gear before entering an instance can still play all the pointlessly difficult, exclusionary content, and welcome to it.
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Ruin it for everyone else? You obviously don't remember what this game was like back when the dungeons and skirmishes were actually well designed and fun, so no one needed to spend ten minutes or a half hour scraping their alliances and chat channels to put together a party. You could just queue up and wait a minute or two.
Compared to that, this game has seriously been ruined for just about everyone. Or are you going to pretend that it's fun to spend large amounts of time organizing every time just to farm VOS over and over and over again until you finally get your band of air?
All I'm saying is stop the years-old terrible idea of requiring players to queue for content above their pay grade that guarantees failure and frustration, which, to borrow a phrase, ruins it for everyone.
Then we can get around to restoring the missing dungeons, rolling back the awful changes to SC, CN, and so on, undoing a lot of pointless power creep, eliminating all the arcane stats like forte, awareness and accuracy, making different ability scores relevant to different characters again, and even fixing years-old screwups like +1 items in mastercrafting, making it possible to use artifact abilities on all artifact weapons.....
To ruin something is to destroy, you are asking to remove a type of random queue, one that you can just as easily ignore. There are players who do want to use this feature as the devs intend for it to be used. Just because you don't want to deal with failure or you don't want to miss some rAD, doesn't mean it should be removed. There are several different ways you can earn rAD, trials are no longer the easy rAD that it used to be.
No one is forcing players to queue for "content above their pay grade". It's up to the player to recognize what they can handle. If they only want to face roll content, then they should only do easy content, and not try and nerf everything to their level. Multiple levels of content exist and wanting to remove those levels should never be answer when the players who don't want the harder content can just not play it.
That will never happen.
And you still haven't attempted to explain how it would harm you or anyone to remove CoK from the RTQ and move the mere two remaining trials to the skirmish queue where they belong. It's amazing you actually care so much about the 1/3 of your daily RTQ rewards that now come from the one of three trials that doesn't belong in the pathetic remnants of that queue.
I don't have to explain why it should be kept beyond what I've already said...that I enjoy that level of difficulty. And no you don't need to watch a video, but just communicate in the game if you don't know the mechanics and people will normally be fine with saying simple things like, split up into party group to protect the clerics or to stay with your party and we need to kill the claws at the same time. And if you fail, just try again.
It's totally fine to not be into certain content. You don't have to do it. You may think that RTQ is ruined because they added more trials to it, others think it's been enriched, in fact people have been asking for baby Zariel to be added and for baby CoK and ToMM to be created and added (ToMM still hasn't been created ofc).
Devs should have made clearer that they want RTQ NOT apropiate for new players and that they gave alternative methods to get AD in RDQ / RSQ / RADQ
Most players only will complain that they cant do what they were doing for long time to get AD, and they wont notice this change, still is devs fault to not comunicate better. We know players are very resistance to change their routine.
Also, another error IMO is that if RTQ is not apropiate for new players, why it rewards RAD? It should reward other thigs more apropiate to the level of chars that would complete it for example companion tokens, greater shards or even rare coal wards for example.
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I remove myself to do RQ and it is the same as removing RQ.
Just because I hate RQ, it does not mean all other players feel the same way.
And baby Zariel is just a slightly-less-tedious version of TOMM crossed with IG. It's boring and badly designed, like every dungeon and trial since Avernus.
The problem, as ever since mod 6 (with the tiny exception of the time a dev took players' grievances seriously and then immediately got fired for it, resuliting in Unasked For Temporary Piercing Damage II for rangers and no real fixes ever since), is that the devs don't play the game, certainly don't play all classes, and have been designing content for a precious few while ignoring the experience for most players, practically never fixing bugs and rarely admitting to even the tiniest of their many longstanding screwups.
Which have resulted, among other things, in an RTQ with only two playable raids.
I really dunno why the complain. The only RTQ I never could finish with randoms is Tiamat. Every time it pops up, moany players just leave.
Maybe elitists who've spent fortunes and months of their lives on being able to faceroll master trials should stop resenting people who think something called playing a game should actually be fun.
Not sure who you mean when you faceroll master trials. I've personally have only even stepped into a Master Trial on the preview server. My average stats in combat are only 60-70%. I just don't think that content should cater to players that are practically braindead.
You are the one wanting to completely get rid of RTQs, ruining a feature that some to want to keep. You could just as easily just not run it and that effectively achieves your goal, but without affecting other's gameplay.
They REMOVED the normal Tiamat Trial at 36k or what it used to be only 21k; that I wish they would return even if it was 50k, as a precursor for those on their way to the new (reduced) 70k not 65k Master Trial!
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11519953-patch-notes:-version:-nw.137.20220522a.12
I mean at least then you'd get a chance diffreent Artifacts, even if they only drop the original Tiamat set. Maybe they still are reworking the Normal Tiamat, so I can only hold out HOPE they are spending more time on that!
Got to hold out HOPE, as I used to always enjoy Tiamat! Yet not seen any improvement on Queue times of Random Dungeons, Random Adv. Dungeons, or especially Random Trials. Be nice if they also awarded some Rough Astral Diamonds for Heroic's or Big Heroic's, say like 125 Rough Diamonds, or 250 for BHE to give people an alternative method to earn them, while encouraging more to do them! Be also nice to see a little Silver for them as well...
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1265291/heroics-should-drop-silver-125-250-r-diamonds-so-more-to-do-or-help
I am not saying add Tomm and Zariel to the RTQ or perhaps maybe create a baby version and add that, but the full master versions simply cannot be done by random groups. In may cases it takes communication which just is not available to all players, It takes everyone having an idea of the phases and mechanics. These will always be done by those using guild parties or regular friends to support, especially on console.
There are other alternative ways of earning AD as well, these get easier as one empowers their main character and can "share" items with their new alts to farm adventures for AD
for rtq or radq I will attempt that solo with my DC healer (main) if it is still the first one of the day and the additional bonus is in play otherwise it is a big no on even trying.
I know I have 20 million rAD already but for some reason I still like earning extra rAD.
Hah. This is what happens when game papering community for too long.
It's not that pugs can't complete this adjusted version of Crown of Keldegonn trial, simply most pugs don't want, others simply expect to be carrier through.
The issue is not just the trials, the issue if the situation with player base mentality.
For most part players get used to be carried by one or two stronger players, there for it was not needed to learn game mechanics. Actually in most cases your presence as player was not even requried, all was needed to follow party through and in the end of dungeon/skirmish/trial claim rewards.
No thinking, not even try learn how play this game.
About 10 days ago I where in RC with pugs, it where Throne of Dvarven God.
From very start players rush in group of enemy, don't ignore fact that enemies suround players and there for they gain CA and do more damage against them.
Also other party members failed to learn that each class have dodge/evade/block feature, I mean they all just sit and eat all incoming hits, and latter complain that healer is bad.
In finall boss fight time instead fighting near throne and get surounded by enemies, you can lure away, somewhere in corner and don't have to take much damage. DId the do that ? nop. At that moment their brain activity where in offline mode. All what they where capable at that moment is keep doing power rotation. Not try kill adds, just keep hitting boss without realising that adds wipe them all. Eventually me as heal I had not only heal these zombies( players), but also kill adds and tank boss. Even through better geared players failed their tasks.
So is Crown of Keldegonn problem? Trials over all? Or Castle of Ravenloff? The answer is no. Theissue is that players get used easy mode gameplay.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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The RQ were designed to motivate players to fill incomplete groups, by design it is a match-making tool. But in the current state of things people often go in with all slots already filled.
So, to some extent, it would be reasonable to not just require public queuing, but at the same time to limit the maximum amount of slots that can be pre-arranged to reach the bonus rAD.
If you pre-fill all the slots, you do not serve the purpose why the RQ was implemented = you should not be eligible to any bonus reward at all.
edit: As I think about it, the bonus reward would ideally follow this design: "You gain XrAD for each empty slot you queued up with."
It is kinda about exploiting the system. If the system is mainly used for a completely different purpose, not even touching the original idea, it should be adjusted.
We used to have 5 DC runs, 5 whatever runs to the dungeon of our choice to earn rAD. That was fun. With RQ, you have to have a proper role combination. You can't choose a specific dungeon. With RQ, people mostly would say they "needed" to do RQ first, like a job. After they finish their RQ of the day (fulfil their 'quota'), they don't have time to do other specific dungeon. They logoff. Go to sleep, etc.
The "merit" of RQ is to use rAD to bait/force people to do RQ by removing the rAD from the regular user choosing dungeon run. They knew that if two type of run provide the same/similar rAD, nobody would do RQ.
They also did not need to invest time/resource to build RQ (if rAD is not a bait) because "RQ" existed before RQ. One could just choose all the dungeons and join public. The first one it pops would be your random dungeon to help others.
The random Queues system where introduced with Jungles of Chult expansion( Mod 13).
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10697924-patch-notes:-version:-nw.90.20171009a.3
The purpose of this system is rather simple, it's to reuse old content. In short words, you as player got paid to play old content. That's it.
All Theme Park RPG mmo games have same issue, the latest two expansions are center of the game, while older expansions become irrelevant and abandoned by players.
If lets say developers remove this random queue system, most game content would not be even used. Playerbase would focus just on last two dungeons, and maybe one or two trials.
This random q system, while it's not perfect, it's better than nothing.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Prior the random queues, a new guy might not manage to put up a group to do a quest dungeon for days... RQ allowed them to just queue up and let the system fill up the rest of the party. (that did not work with direct select, because... e.g. Pirate retreat was chosen so rarely that a full party never met at the same time)
Devs actually want everyone to be focused on the new content, the new content is the drive to invest and improve. However, they simply cannot have a new player experience be "the game is a completely desolate place".
I seriously doubt that any player successfully passing in the latest dungeons and trials have any need for a special rAD reward. At least, they should not be fed by easy rAD anyway - but if a million rAD thrown away prevents one soul from leaving the game after two days of shouting in various places lfg Ice Throne, well, it served the purpose. But that purpose is gone if you queue up for a RQ as a full group...
Removing other sources of RAD from the game (salvage, regular queues) has forced the everyone to run random queues. We can all see the effect that has on the game. I think we can conclude that random queues did not meet the original goals and that developer changes since then have made the problem worse IMO. The recent mod 23 queue changes are evidence of that fact; only time will tell if queue health improves. But if you enter a random queue as a complete group, that helps no one but your group.
We can argue solo tagging RQ is nothing else but kind of a "personnal choice".
I can't consider being social in a MMORPG, taking the time to organize/join/communicate with some other players building a complete party, as an "unfair advantage" in earning ingame ressources, especially compared to just press "k" 2 clics wait for an algorythm to automatically paradrop a group on me and not even have to say anything to them before, during or after the run. What I understand about this idea is : a group of 5 friends would have to play separately and probably with complete strangers, rather than enjoying the RADQ together, all that in order to get the same bonus as a player queuing solo.
It wouldn't fit with what a MMORPG is for me, especially one based on a D&D background.
But that's only my opinion ^^.