Are tanks having fun

thordet91 · January 2022

The best way to tank is to run around like clowns and have high stats.. I don’t blame anyone for stop playing tank.

Also 7k more ad for tanks does not justify the scrolls and callouts in pug demo (for the tanks that even queue solo anymore)

There is to many mechanics that can 1 shot in this game compared to just be punishing and tanks and healers can be blamed for them all. and that says a lot about how fun we are having..

I have to mute my friends and concentrate so hard to see the black/purple line on the first boss vos, I can wipe the whole team on second boss in vos if I’m to fast or to slow (cross fingers for not getting the stack mark also) Second and fourth phase in zariel…

This is a job, giving 95% is not good enough in endgame as a tank.

Maybe I will dust off my dps mod 22, I’m tired

armadeonx · January 2022

Yeah, all the mechanics these days seem to be focused on the tank but less people are playing them. My pally is currently at 51k but I refuse to run him in dungeons now and take my healer instead.

Due to the short supply, the better tanks are now mostly PM'd directly into private groups, meaning you usually see less experienced & under-geared tanks taking the lead in RAQ/RTQ. They have a harder time (nerfed survivability) and are often subject to abuse - meaning they often quit the tank role.

Healing is waaay more boring than it used to be (due to Divinity Gain restricting encounter power choices) but it's a lot less pressure than tanking.

I'd love to be able to run dps when I want to but the waiting times for the queues are just stupidly long now (due to the lack of support players).

wilbur626 · January 2022

Tanking, like healing, is just a different playstyle, even if the design of aggro is a bit flawed; I’ve got massive amounts of armor and low DPS, but I “taunt” you so you are compelled to attack me even though I’m not really a threat at all.

Neverwinter does overall well in making me feel awesome when tanking, even if I'm not the one doing the most damage. Tanking also feels like a more important and essential role vs DPS, mostly because DPSers are always a dime a dozen. It just feels good to be that guy at the front of a fight, soaking the damage and keeping the attention of enemies on you.

There are however things that make tanking in Neverwinter feel dull at times.

Common factors that make tanking feel tedious :

- Tanks are too reliant on threat modifiers, all tanks should have their damage output increased. The m16 design goal was to have tanks do 70% of DPS damage. We are currently operating at 25ish%. Lacking damage will be more and more visible for tank paragons as item level increases, already extremely noticeable in M22.
- Itemization for tanks is horrible, and its getting worse with M22. The Charging Bull ring variations is trying to compensate for obvious tank design flaws, almost forcing tanks to use 1 spesific item. In my opinion this is the very definition of boring "progression".
- Content design is very boring for tanks. Tank swapping is not very exciting. The Royal Gardener in VOS is as close as we get to tanks having to do anything besides being at the top of the threat table. Mod20 (VoS first boss) and M22 (Trial) have boss fights with multiple targets, this brings some additional "entertainment" for the tank paragons that have lacking AOE threat generation. The removal of the Lightning weapon enchant adds to this problem.
- Bad decisions made during the M16 class rework/Combat Ratings Rework makes the different tanks feel unfinished, we see tank paragons having feats/class features that made sense before last minute changes were made. One example of this is the changes done to tanks forte ;

Orignal forte stats :

Current forte stats :

Keep these forte stats in mind when reading the class breakdown below :

Class spesific pros/cons :

Fighter :

+ Self protection encounter (Iron Warrior)
+ Mobility At-Will (Threatening Rush)
+ Mobility Encounter that can be feated for actual utility (Bull Charge)
+ Good single target threat gen (Threatening Rush + Shield Throw + Feated Retaliate)
+ Good party protection (Knights Valor + Phalanx)
+ Very strong TAB (60% HP Shield, 15% awareness, 10% critical avoidance and CC Immunity)
+ Immortality Daily (Feated Determination)
+ Stat boost daily (Bladed Rampart, +30% awareness +30% defense)
+ Party damage buff (Enforced Threat = +10% party dmg)

+/- Unique At-Wills during shielding, no utility

- Lacking self-healing (10s from Second Wind daily only)
- Very bad AOE threat generation

? Class Feature and Feat based on Deflection (Ferocious Reaction + Critical Deflection). Investing in Deflection on a Figther Vanguard is counterintuitive due to CURRENT forte stat distribution.
? Deep Breathing feat utterly useless in current content due to long charge timer
? Enduring Warrior has no place in current combat system
? AOE Threat feats (Rising Tide and Cleaving Bull) are both extremely lackluster.

Paladin :

+ Self protection encounter (Absolution)
+ Mobility At-Will (Radiant Slam)
+ Good single target threat gen (Oath Strike + Templars Wrath + Smite)
+ Good party protection (Shield of Faith + unfeated Divine Protector + Divine Champion/Divine Palisade)
+ Immortality Daily (Feated Determination)
+ Extremely strong stat boost daily (Feated Divine Protector, +30% awareness +30% Damage Resistance)
+ Very good AOE threat generation
+ Both lvl 20 feats worth considering

+/- Unique TAB (50% HP Shield/60% feated, CC Immunity, Party damage reducion and Party healing). Divine Palisade design conflicing with current Combat Advantage fight "meta", party never behind tank.
+/- Binding Oath encounter reflecting damage is a nice idea, but poor execution. Too low damage/uptime to be worth considering.
+/- Unique self/party healing threat generation (Divine Touch + Divine Palisade). Poor execution of what could be a major positive side of the Paladin Justicar. Divinity cost, targeting and area of effect needs adjustment.

- Mobility Encounter can not be feated for utility (Relentless Avenger)
- No party damage buff
- Auras are all underwhelming

? Divine Champion design
? The only tank without deflect based class features / feats AND the only tank with deflect based forte ???

Barbarian :

+ AWESOME blocking at-will that increases threat generation (Feated Sentinels Slash)
+ Mobility At-Will (Bounding Slam)
+ Mobility Encounters that can be feated for utility (Punishing Charge + Mighty Leap)
+ Extremely good self healing/single target threat generation (Bloodletter + Feated Primal Fury + Indomitable Battle Strike)
+ Good AoE threat generation (Mobility at-will/encounter + feated Sentinels Slash + Come and Get It + Not so Fast)
+ Very strong TAB (60% HP Shield, +10% critical severity, increased at-will attack speedand CC Immunity)
+ Immortality Daily (Feated Primal Instincts)
+ Stat boost daily (Primal Instincts, +30% awareness +90% critical avoidance)
+ Party damage buff (Feated Takedown = +10% physical damage)
+ Party movement speed buff (Feated Not so Fast)

+/- Enemy damage dealt reduction (Feated Savage Advance), not useful in endgame

- Zero Party protection
- No viable option to Blood Fury lvl 20 feat

? 2 class features with Deflect focus (Raging Bladeturn + Bravery). Investing in Deflection on a Barbarian Sentinel is counterintuitive due to CURRENT forte stat distribution.
? Sure Slam feat makes Sure Strike increase Bounding Slam magnitude by 100, Bounding Slam increasing Sure Strike magnitude would make more sense

rjc9000 · January 2022

Yeah, I'd agree, tanking is not really that much fun when you figure out how it works.

wilbur626 said:
Neverwinter does overall well in making me feel awesome when tanking, even if I'm not the one doing the most damage. Tanking also feels like a more important and essential role vs DPS, mostly because DPSers are always a dime a dozen. It just feels good to be that guy at the front of a fight, soaking the damage and keeping the attention of enemies on you.

Going to disagree with you here.

I dislike how surviving as a tank is more about the numbers in your stat sheet, rather than your ability as a player to think and use class specific mechanics to approach your tanking/surviving differently in combat.

wilbur626 said:

- Content design is very boring for tanks. Tank swapping is not very exciting. The Royal Gardener in VOS is as close as we get to tanks having to do anything besides being at the top of the threat table. Mod20 (VoS first boss) and M22 (Trial) have boss fights with multiple targets, this brings some additional "entertainment" for the tank paragons that have lacking AOE threat generation. The removal of the Lightning weapon enchant adds to this problem.

This is a general problem with post Mod 16 content in general: the game forces you to arbitrarily get a tank to check a box for specific moments, not because I am naturally building a team that needs the capabilities and toolset of the tank.

I also dislike how the role is just designed to be an unkillable wall of meat and nothing else.
You don't get to contribute in combat, so some poor DPS doesn't get a bruised ego for being bad at playing the game.
You don't get to apply meaningful buffs, because the Mod 16 designers were scared of the math that made a mockery of their fight programming.
And In two tank scenarios, there is almost nothing to do as a second tank when it's not "your turn" to take hits to the face.

Then again, considering the same guy who designed the tanks also thought fun gameplay is to hold down one button to sit down on the toilet and do nothing, I probably should not be surprised.

wilbur626 said:

Class spesific pros/cons :

Except that there isn't that much mechanical distinction between the classes.

Aside from some stupid design oversights (Paladins losing their immortality panic button), every class gets two flavors of hard taunt, one encounter (and one daily) power restores 20% of your max HP and raises their eHP by 20%, one power that restores 50% of your Stamina, one power, so on and so forth.

There is also no mechanical distinction in how you approach your survival: all the classes stack the minimum required defensive stats to survive tank checks, make sure your item level is just high enough to let you survive mechanics, press block when the game does ~~Asterdahl~~ Simon Says, and then take everything else to the face to check off the healer role.

The biggest mechanical distinctions I can say there are right now are the Paladin's ability to spam hard taunts (making them better suited for new players) and Barbarian having less tools but being filled with enough cheese to become literally too angry to die (because memes).

But the tank "classes" ultimately end up being the same, just with a different name and flavor text to justify small differences.

wilbur626 said:

+ AWESOME blocking at-will that increases threat generation (Feated Sentinels Slash)

At will implies you actually care about it for damage or for aggro purposes.
Sentinel Slash isn't so much an attack as it is an excellent source of Action Points.

silente07 · January 2022

Pugging as a Tank is worse than lugging as a healer. Players don’t know any mechanics and just rush forward and it’s somehow your fault the dungeon fails. Too many messages about the Tank not being able to do their job, say when the Dps empower all of Trobriands Scorpions they then arnt strong enough to kill.
I only Tank for Alliance or friends.

stark760 · January 2022

Change the feats we pick, to actually make it seem like its a choice, and work with things in the build. As it is, I think only 4 feat choices out of 10 go with at wills/encounters(we have 16?) If want to keep it 5 feat choices, add a 3rd or 4th option on each of the 5, and match them up to at wills/encounters/dailies more, so people can at least feel like they have choices on their build.

rey007 · January 2022

thordet91#6067 said:
The best way to tank is to run around like clowns and have high stats.. I don’t blame anyone for stop playing tank.

Also 7k more ad for tanks does not justify the scrolls and callouts in pug demo (for the tanks that even queue solo anymore)

There is to many mechanics that can 1 shot in this game compared to just be punishing and tanks and healers can be blamed for them all. and that says a lot about how fun we are having..

I have to mute my friends and concentrate so hard to see the black/purple line on the first boss vos, I can wipe the whole team on second boss in vos if I’m to fast or to slow (cross fingers for not getting the stack mark also) Second and fourth phase in zariel…

This is a job, giving 95% is not good enough in endgame as a tank.

Maybe I will dust off my dps mod 22, I’m tired

No, for all of the issues you have mentioned. I have stopped running HC VoS as a paladin because of this and I still do not have all of the reagents to make even one ring. My guildies have lucked out and have theirs, so I'm ok with it. I now just run a daily Reaper Q with my wizard since I have the "I am the Reaper" title with my paladin. Looking forward to Mod 22.

xaltius · January 2022

Paladins need a serious buff in threat generation. The highest dps in game will steal aggro if even momentarily and most likely at very unfortunate moments. Our at-wills do 0 dmg. The fighter has a 80 magnitude at-will for aggro generation and with tides of iron they can increase the multiplier further for anything they do for 10 seconds. The paladin on the other had gets a 25 magnitude crappy at will with no way to increase the multiplier, unless they pick the intimidating presence boon which basically destroys one of their strenghts and makes it so that palisade will only block attacks from the front if using shift. Fighters get the same dr and it works 360. Not to mention the 15% awareness as long as they are using dig in. And they can ofcourse use dig in even without stamina. And they get the 800 magnitude with retaliate the moment smthng touches their shield, every 10 seconds, which they can also buff up with tides of iron to increase the multiplier on the threat generation.

All in all, the paladin class feels very unfriendly, and even experienced tanks are having issues. Add the new artifact set that is basically lostmauth set on steroids and soon the paladin will be reduced to a cheerleader in dungeons. Somone said in mod 16 tanks were supposed to be doing about 70% of the dmg that dps do. And it is true, as a paladin I was doing a ton of dmg and it was fun holding aggro even though templar's wrath was bugged at the time and only smite really worked. Now, paladins do at best a 5% of the dmg the dps are dishing out (talking about endgame content) and their low aggro generation makes it a very unappealing class to play. I see a lot of people asking in PE what tank class they should pick and even as a paladin main I tell them to go for fighter because frankly, paladins are kinda weak and unrewarding.

When mod 20 hit, paladins lost 80% of the dmg they had. Combined with the 0 threat generation, it just turns paladins to cheerleaders, reduced to either w8 for a smite/vow steal or hope they crit everything and the bosses do not deflect. The fighter just needs to apply his rotation once and thats it. Aggro for ever. The paladin even with the band of air is starting to have issues now in mod 22. Of course it all started in mod20 when the devs basically nerfed paladins to oblivion. It is now that we are seeing the worst effects. They did fix templar's wrath and buffed it up slightly so it was decent until now, but it is not enough anymore with their low multipliers/damage. Unless we see a serious buff of the class, I cant see many people using the class for anything more than random q. And a lot of previously paladin mains have switched to fighter, basically leaving the class in the dust.

Well I just hope we get some big buffs soon, because at the moment we need to use at least one slot for batiri/minsc to make sure we keep aggro effectively, while fighters can just stroll into tomm/zariel with 0 gear and hold aggro 3 times better than pallies and without any offensive comp powers like the ones I mentioned.

Cheers!

thordet91 · January 2022

Agree about paladin need som mag/aggro buff.

But let’s not forget the barbarians, they need it even more.

Let’s see how many players that will rebuild their tank after the enchantment change. Offf

sagakaiyume · January 2022

I think a lot of issues with pally is people not understanding how it creates aggro; Using shift cancel you create same or more aggro than a fighter's at will. Pair it with Sacred weapon and you're doing 3k magnitude threat in first 10 seconds of any combat, without the use of Templar's wrath. Again, paired with bane for the extra divinity gained through Baneful strikes and Divine pursuit, aggro isn't an issue.

Guard canceling also allows you to use your daily every 18-20 seconds, which adds a 30% damage reduction and 30% awareness buff. Remember; this was what made fighter the go to tank for tomm in mod 17-19, which was taken away from fighters and given to pally.

Many use smite, which ends up a waste of divinity compared to templar's wrath, as smite doesn't get the increased threat bonus.

You don't need intimidating presence, I can run all content up to vos without it, so that's just saying you're taking a class feat to make it seem like you're worse off.

There is no problem with asking for buffs or changes to how tanks work; but plain ignoring strengths of your class, down playing them and crying about fighter just makes you seem extremely dishonest.

thordet91 · January 2022

> @sagakaiyume#0847 said:
> I think a lot of issues with pally is people not understanding how it creates aggro; Using shift cancel you create same or more aggro than a fighter's at will. Pair it with Sacred weapon and you're doing 3k magnitude threat in first 10 seconds of any combat, without the use of Templar's wrath. Again, paired with bane for the extra divinity gained through Baneful strikes and Divine pursuit, aggro isn't an issue.
>
> Guard canceling also allows you to use your daily every 18-20 seconds, which adds a 30% damage reduction and 30% awareness buff. Remember; this was what made fighter the go to tank for tomm in mod 17-19, which was taken away from fighters and given to pally.
>
> Many use smite, which ends up a waste of divinity compared to templar's wrath, as smite doesn't get the increased threat bonus.
>
> You don't need intimidating presence, I can run all content up to vos without it, so that's just saying you're taking a class feat to make it seem like you're worse off.
>
> There is no problem with asking for buffs or changes to how tanks work; but plain ignoring strengths of your class, down playing them and crying about fighter just makes you seem extremely dishonest.

Totally agree, weird how old and new players don’t know using aoe encounters on singletarget is the best way to play paladin..

And solo play is so fast and rewarding with them!

This post was never about this topic though. Are you having fun tanking? Or is it just rewarding because people need you?

sagakaiyume · January 2022

@thordet91#6067 I have fun playing tank; but that's because I do so with a semi-set group. There's a group of 5 of us, but we bring in people from the alliance to help them out. All the while, we're on discord laughing away and don't take what actually happens too seriously (always funny to hear a solo dps cry in maze hc vos "they're jumping me, help!").

I don't think the game is fun in general; since things currently are scaled weirdly where we're either able to fall asleep tanking, or have to kite or else be one-shot by a group of mobs hitting 300k+.

thordet91 · January 2022

> @sagakaiyume#0847

The scaling is absolutely hilarious, I can get 1 shot by imps in reaper if I don’t use my shield but I rarely use it in vos and not more then needed in tomm/zariel

Maybe one of the problems with tanking now is that it’s all about aggro, and not surviving.

I’m not having much fun atm, tanking feels like a battle against the dps aggro and not the bosses them selves. And right now I can keep any dps at yellow, so what is left? Other then protecting others from a 1 shot now and then?

armadeonx · January 2022

On the fun aspect of running my Pally, I have some issues when soloing.

Divinity Regen. In combat, the amount of regen I get from attacking or shielding is pitiful unless I'm being attacked by a big mob of enemies. This means that after 3 or 4 encounter attacks I'm just shielding up and trying to avoid CA while I gather up more divinity for another encounter use.

Damage absorption v Divinity regen. Standing in a group of enemies (e.g. a minor HE) with no divinity and shield up. You notice that the stamina bar goes down a lot faster than the Divinity bar goes up AND your HP is going down whilst doing this.

At the very least, Divinity Regen should match Stamina Loss 1 to 1. I mean, shielding is supposed to be the main source of Pally divinity gain, but the ratio appears to be more like 5 to 1. The feat Divine Pursuit should also be looked at here.

Out of combat, divinity refills very slowly compared to my DC and my Bard's performance bar. My DC can hurry it along and the Bard refills within 3 seconds out of combat (which is perfect) but my OP just stands around before attacking the next group - sooooo tedious.

Outgoing damage. When soloing in open content (e.g. Sharandar) my DPS is so low that it's painful. This is with a full suite of Mythic DPS companions (at 100% bolster) and gear and with Blessed Wandered turned on for its 5% boost (when away from a party). This is a HUGE turn off for anyone who'd like to run a Paladin.

So running a pally in solo content is too painful to bother imo. In group content, tbh I cba anymore - I run heals mostly, since they nerfed the survivability.

Being a tank in groups now puts all the pressure on you but without the resources we used to have, that gave us build flexibility and FUN.

xaltius · January 2022

Oh i know about animation canceling. I use it all the time to increase attack speed, procs and ap regen. I can usually get full ap within 15 seconds. I dont use smite for aggro generation. Actually i only use smite in zariel for the aggro swaps. Templar's wrath all the way. And trust me it is not enough atm. I am fairly certain i know how to play paladin correctly. And in comparison to fighters we are basically dead weight. I dont exactly like to rely on aggro steals for the 1st burst when everything is going out. Templar's wrath barely makes it atm. And im not a low lvl pally either nor are my offensive stats low. 50% power and 56% combat advantage with band of air, lh weapons, and even batiri slotted and it barely keeps the big boys in check. Saga you say you run all content up to vos but vos is childsplay. Im talking about running tomm/zariel/cok where the debuffs on the boss are stacked like crazy. The dps literally hitting for 5 million on a daily or TV and encounters that also do upwards 1.5 million dmg on a bad day. Im not worried ill lose aggro in vos lol. Im worried ill run out of divinity and a dps will burst so high, that they will steal aggro even after ive done 2+ million dmg. (I even keep vow slotted for that scenario) Ofc that 2+ million dmg means the boss has not deflected any of my attacks. Which is a coin toss on every hit since everything now has 50% deflect chance. Our accuracy as paladins is garbage. I have asked for this before but we need a new forte (accuracy would work but even a 3rd defensive would not hurt in place of critical strike) Critical is fine if u are playing healer but for tank, eeeh. Not really the best option to rely on crits to do dmg.

Intimidating presence sucks. I only pointed it out because it sucks. It drains your divinity very fast, gives less dr, only on block and the aggro generation increase is quite frankly pathetic.

For solo content, it doesnt matter. You can literally play anything for solo content and complete everything with ease. It isnt even worth talking about. I 2-shot everything. My dps loadout has 84% power and 62% + crit and sev. But u cant exactly spam bane in trials even with the baneful strikes feat and you cant ignore defensive stats either.

Saga, I am not downplaying paladins. They quite literally suck atm for endgame content. Thats what my post was about. They have been getting nerfed for years and now it has become worse than ever. Pugable content isnt an issue. Trust me when I say that, 2 weeks ago I had no issues holding aggro against bigppdps and I had never used band of air or batiri for that. It was tough sure, but I did not worry. I knew my rotation would be enough to hold aggro long enough until an aggro swap (whether it is the offtank in zariel or the horn to clear stacks in tomm). As I previously said, I am not a fan of aggro steals to take aggro back from the dps. Mainly because in endgame, it means at least 1 dps will die. Soon the dps will be getting the new and improved version of lostmauth, basically proccing band of air non-stop. That is when HAMSTER will hit the fan.

My point still stands that paladins need a big aggro/dmg boost. Am I having fun playing paladin? I used to. Lately not so much. Ater mod 20 we lost too much dmg. I was consistently in the top 3 paingiver spots in most group content except for tomm/zariel (I started doing tomm late mod 19) and tanky as hell. With mod 20 paladins were reduced to mere meatshields. Its fine I guess. Ill be the meatshield. But damage is linked to aggro. And right now we got neither. That is why I am complaining, when I see fighters just strolling in with shield throw, tides of iron and retalliate and basically generating 3 times more aggro than paladins. I dont want fighters to be nerfed. I want paladins to match that. I also have a lowbie fighter tank (54k 0 mounts/insignia/collars/comps/gear

) and she is absolutely fantastic. In radq she generates as much aggro as my paladin (70k and well built) if not more. (probaby more since my fighter doesnt even have any manticore's mane)

sagakaiyume · January 2022

When I say up to VoS, that's by release date, meaning everything before hand included; I've not had a chance for the new trial yet as I don't have that unlocked. I even had forum posts offering to bring people into trials a while back as I hosted them. So yes, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to holding aggro on both pally and fighter, as well as surviving not being an issue in any shape or form.

I also mentioned in another post once that new artifact set goes live all tanks will have issues; fighters do have knight's valor to counter it, but its complete rng who it latches onto. If it picks a healer, its worthless. There are dpsers that do 2-3 times more dps than other dpsers in endgame content, so latching on to the lower ones again is worthless.

rikitaki · January 2022

The worst thing about being tank is that you are standing against everything and everyone. Devs are trying to design instances difficult for the tanks - and it often ends up like that. And then... explain to others your struggle/justify your position.

I had my fair share of runs in VoS. Not too many like others, but I ventured there a few times. It is a hostile place - only to - tanks.
At the first boss, I used to get scolded for not intercepting the black line (while being locked on the ground by the beast, or simply ignored by the connecting line and bypassed by the blast), ramping up at the second boss where I used to be scolded for party taking too much of damage (they refused to move away from the ice), the third boss was usually the cherry on the top - being scolded for losing agro and having slotted the hard taunt in one sentence (come and get it), accused of not knowing the mechanics and kicked out (party insisted on committing suicide by attacking the golem out of the correct well - sadly bosses do not follow tank anywhere if someone keeps attacking them; called an idiot when I was forced to walk around the edge as I could not survive crossing the black well with a broken block.)
VoS is much easier to run with starting group when you explain everything - when they listen. The advanced DPS masters with Band of Air are just PITA to run such content with. (oh, not all of you of course, my dear gentleman, who even asked if the aggro is ok)

The thing is, having fourth dps instead of tank usually brings better experience for everyone. Mechanics punishing tanks is usually harmless to skilled dps class. The RC is a clear example - any CC capable class can do tanking better than even the best tank around. Bosses are harmless and if mobs hit you, they will kill you regardless of your specialization. Easy choice then.

gweddeoran · January 2022

xaltius#7326 said:
Oh i know about animation canceling. I use it all the time to increase attack speed, procs and ap regen. I can usually get full ap within 15 seconds. I dont use smite for aggro generation. Actually i only use smite in zariel for the aggro swaps. Templar's wrath all the way. And trust me it is not enough atm. I am fairly certain i know how to play paladin correctly. And in comparison to fighters we are basically dead weight. I dont exactly like to rely on aggro steals for the 1st burst when everything is going out. Templar's wrath barely makes it atm. And im not a low lvl pally either nor are my offensive stats low. 50% power and 56% combat advantage with band of air, lh weapons, and even batiri slotted and it barely keeps the big boys in check. Saga you say you run all content up to vos but vos is childsplay. Im talking about running tomm/zariel/cok where the debuffs on the boss are stacked like crazy. The dps literally hitting for 5 million on a daily or TV and encounters that also do upwards 1.5 million dmg on a bad day. Im not worried ill lose aggro in vos lol. Im worried ill run out of divinity and a dps will burst so high, that they will steal aggro even after ive done 2+ million dmg. (I even keep vow slotted for that scenario) Ofc that 2+ million dmg means the boss has not deflected any of my attacks. Which is a coin toss on every hit since everything now has 50% deflect chance. Our accuracy as paladins is garbage. I have asked for this before but we need a new forte (accuracy would work but even a 3rd defensive would not hurt in place of critical strike) Critical is fine if u are playing healer but for tank, eeeh. Not really the best option to rely on crits to do dmg.

Intimidating presence sucks. I only pointed it out because it sucks. It drains your divinity very fast, gives less dr, only on block and the aggro generation increase is quite frankly pathetic.

For solo content, it doesnt matter. You can literally play anything for solo content and complete everything with ease. It isnt even worth talking about. I 2-shot everything. My dps loadout has 84% power and 62% + crit and sev. But u cant exactly spam bane in trials even with the baneful strikes feat and you cant ignore defensive stats either.

Saga, I am not downplaying paladins. They quite literally suck atm for endgame content. Thats what my post was about. They have been getting nerfed for years and now it has become worse than ever. Pugable content isnt an issue. Trust me when I say that, 2 weeks ago I had no issues holding aggro against bigppdps and I had never used band of air or batiri for that. It was tough sure, but I did not worry. I knew my rotation would be enough to hold aggro long enough until an aggro swap (whether it is the offtank in zariel or the horn to clear stacks in tomm). As I previously said, I am not a fan of aggro steals to take aggro back from the dps. Mainly because in endgame, it means at least 1 dps will die. Soon the dps will be getting the new and improved version of lostmauth, basically proccing band of air non-stop. That is when HAMSTER will hit the fan.

My point still stands that paladins need a big aggro/dmg boost. Am I having fun playing paladin? I used to. Lately not so much. Ater mod 20 we lost too much dmg. I was consistently in the top 3 paingiver spots in most group content except for tomm/zariel (I started doing tomm late mod 19) and tanky as hell. With mod 20 paladins were reduced to mere meatshields. Its fine I guess. Ill be the meatshield. But damage is linked to aggro. And right now we got neither. That is why I am complaining, when I see fighters just strolling in with shield throw, tides of iron and retalliate and basically generating 3 times more aggro than paladins. I dont want fighters to be nerfed. I want paladins to match that. I also have a lowbie fighter tank (54k 0 mounts/insignia/collars/comps/gear ) and she is absolutely fantastic. In radq she generates as much aggro as my paladin (70k and well built) if not more. (probaby more since my fighter doesnt even have any manticore's mane)

One issue with your post- Accuracy is the WORST stat for DPS increase. Critical Strike is in fact better than Accuracy for raising DPS, but even better would be a Forte in Combat Advantage or Power which are the 2 best stats for DPS boost. Only class in the whole game that invests in Accuracy is the Barb for the Overpenetration buff.

rikitaki · January 2022

gweddeoran#4924 said:

xaltius#7326 said:
Oh i know about animation canceling. I use it all the time to increase attack speed, procs and ap regen. I can usually get full ap within 15 seconds. I dont use smite for aggro generation. Actually i only use smite in zariel for the aggro swaps. Templar's wrath all the way. And trust me it is not enough atm. I am fairly certain i know how to play paladin correctly. And in comparison to fighters we are basically dead weight. I dont exactly like to rely on aggro steals for the 1st burst when everything is going out. Templar's wrath barely makes it atm. And im not a low lvl pally either nor are my offensive stats low. 50% power and 56% combat advantage with band of air, lh weapons, and even batiri slotted and it barely keeps the big boys in check. Saga you say you run all content up to vos but vos is childsplay. Im talking about running tomm/zariel/cok where the debuffs on the boss are stacked like crazy. The dps literally hitting for 5 million on a daily or TV and encounters that also do upwards 1.5 million dmg on a bad day. Im not worried ill lose aggro in vos lol. Im worried ill run out of divinity and a dps will burst so high, that they will steal aggro even after ive done 2+ million dmg. (I even keep vow slotted for that scenario) Ofc that 2+ million dmg means the boss has not deflected any of my attacks. Which is a coin toss on every hit since everything now has 50% deflect chance. Our accuracy as paladins is garbage. I have asked for this before but we need a new forte (accuracy would work but even a 3rd defensive would not hurt in place of critical strike) Critical is fine if u are playing healer but for tank, eeeh. Not really the best option to rely on crits to do dmg.

Intimidating presence sucks. I only pointed it out because it sucks. It drains your divinity very fast, gives less dr, only on block and the aggro generation increase is quite frankly pathetic.

For solo content, it doesnt matter. You can literally play anything for solo content and complete everything with ease. It isnt even worth talking about. I 2-shot everything. My dps loadout has 84% power and 62% + crit and sev. But u cant exactly spam bane in trials even with the baneful strikes feat and you cant ignore defensive stats either.

Saga, I am not downplaying paladins. They quite literally suck atm for endgame content. Thats what my post was about. They have been getting nerfed for years and now it has become worse than ever. Pugable content isnt an issue. Trust me when I say that, 2 weeks ago I had no issues holding aggro against bigppdps and I had never used band of air or batiri for that. It was tough sure, but I did not worry. I knew my rotation would be enough to hold aggro long enough until an aggro swap (whether it is the offtank in zariel or the horn to clear stacks in tomm). As I previously said, I am not a fan of aggro steals to take aggro back from the dps. Mainly because in endgame, it means at least 1 dps will die. Soon the dps will be getting the new and improved version of lostmauth, basically proccing band of air non-stop. That is when HAMSTER will hit the fan.

My point still stands that paladins need a big aggro/dmg boost. Am I having fun playing paladin? I used to. Lately not so much. Ater mod 20 we lost too much dmg. I was consistently in the top 3 paingiver spots in most group content except for tomm/zariel (I started doing tomm late mod 19) and tanky as hell. With mod 20 paladins were reduced to mere meatshields. Its fine I guess. Ill be the meatshield. But damage is linked to aggro. And right now we got neither. That is why I am complaining, when I see fighters just strolling in with shield throw, tides of iron and retalliate and basically generating 3 times more aggro than paladins. I dont want fighters to be nerfed. I want paladins to match that. I also have a lowbie fighter tank (54k 0 mounts/insignia/collars/comps/gear ) and she is absolutely fantastic. In radq she generates as much aggro as my paladin (70k and well built) if not more. (probaby more since my fighter doesnt even have any manticore's mane)
One issue with your post- Accuracy is the WORST stat for DPS increase. Critical Strike is in fact better than Accuracy for raising DPS, but even better would be a Forte in Combat Advantage or Power which are the 2 best stats for DPS boost. Only class in the whole game that invests in Accuracy is the Barb for the Overpenetration buff.

Accuracy is not the worst stat for DPS increase, there is a label "conditions apply". In the tank situation, if you allow your % to drop down to about 30%, one point to accu has significantly better impact than one point to crit. (and vice versa - if your stats are high, it is better to invest to crit/crit severity)

The tanks were hit by the enchant rework hard. First: the tenebrous used to be our dominant side over the DPS classes (power and crit did not apply). Next: the lightning and elven battle enchantments (add your favourite here

) got exterminated... both were making tanking notably better experience. And last: the new combat enchants have now ridiculous IL still without CR, which means if you slot them, you lose 5% stats across the board. As tank should be able to survive - and needs to deal dmg to gain aggro, he is bound to make a choice to sacrifice one of those things (or ignore the rework).

I do not know about the end game content, but in general, this rework deprived tanks from items they used to strive for without giving any reasonable substitution. Tanks got punished, dps have some goodies on the horizon once again. No, tanks do not need adjustment in damage, the system which makes you worse with IL increase needs to go. That is the core issue.

edit: ...and of course, the broken item "Band of Air" needs a fix. There should not be a ring that boosts your damage by 20+%.

chucknorris · January 2022

thordet91#6067 said:
Are tanks having fun

well ... at first : Hell yeah, started about a year now.

But now, since i've reached endgame .. its really frustrating to just see other party members play like a tank is useless, and yeah tanks are useless 95% of the time.

admiralwarlord · January 2022

rikitaki said:

gweddeoran#4924 said:

xaltius#7326 said:
Oh i know about animation canceling. I use it all the time to increase attack speed, procs and ap regen. I can usually get full ap within 15 seconds. I dont use smite for aggro generation. Actually i only use smite in zariel for the aggro swaps. Templar's wrath all the way. And trust me it is not enough atm. I am fairly certain i know how to play paladin correctly. And in comparison to fighters we are basically dead weight. I dont exactly like to rely on aggro steals for the 1st burst when everything is going out. Templar's wrath barely makes it atm. And im not a low lvl pally either nor are my offensive stats low. 50% power and 56% combat advantage with band of air, lh weapons, and even batiri slotted and it barely keeps the big boys in check. Saga you say you run all content up to vos but vos is childsplay. Im talking about running tomm/zariel/cok where the debuffs on the boss are stacked like crazy. The dps literally hitting for 5 million on a daily or TV and encounters that also do upwards 1.5 million dmg on a bad day. Im not worried ill lose aggro in vos lol. Im worried ill run out of divinity and a dps will burst so high, that they will steal aggro even after ive done 2+ million dmg. (I even keep vow slotted for that scenario) Ofc that 2+ million dmg means the boss has not deflected any of my attacks. Which is a coin toss on every hit since everything now has 50% deflect chance. Our accuracy as paladins is garbage. I have asked for this before but we need a new forte (accuracy would work but even a 3rd defensive would not hurt in place of critical strike) Critical is fine if u are playing healer but for tank, eeeh. Not really the best option to rely on crits to do dmg.

Intimidating presence sucks. I only pointed it out because it sucks. It drains your divinity very fast, gives less dr, only on block and the aggro generation increase is quite frankly pathetic.

For solo content, it doesnt matter. You can literally play anything for solo content and complete everything with ease. It isnt even worth talking about. I 2-shot everything. My dps loadout has 84% power and 62% + crit and sev. But u cant exactly spam bane in trials even with the baneful strikes feat and you cant ignore defensive stats either.

Saga, I am not downplaying paladins. They quite literally suck atm for endgame content. Thats what my post was about. They have been getting nerfed for years and now it has become worse than ever. Pugable content isnt an issue. Trust me when I say that, 2 weeks ago I had no issues holding aggro against bigppdps and I had never used band of air or batiri for that. It was tough sure, but I did not worry. I knew my rotation would be enough to hold aggro long enough until an aggro swap (whether it is the offtank in zariel or the horn to clear stacks in tomm). As I previously said, I am not a fan of aggro steals to take aggro back from the dps. Mainly because in endgame, it means at least 1 dps will die. Soon the dps will be getting the new and improved version of lostmauth, basically proccing band of air non-stop. That is when HAMSTER will hit the fan.

My point still stands that paladins need a big aggro/dmg boost. Am I having fun playing paladin? I used to. Lately not so much. Ater mod 20 we lost too much dmg. I was consistently in the top 3 paingiver spots in most group content except for tomm/zariel (I started doing tomm late mod 19) and tanky as hell. With mod 20 paladins were reduced to mere meatshields. Its fine I guess. Ill be the meatshield. But damage is linked to aggro. And right now we got neither. That is why I am complaining, when I see fighters just strolling in with shield throw, tides of iron and retalliate and basically generating 3 times more aggro than paladins. I dont want fighters to be nerfed. I want paladins to match that. I also have a lowbie fighter tank (54k 0 mounts/insignia/collars/comps/gear ) and she is absolutely fantastic. In radq she generates as much aggro as my paladin (70k and well built) if not more. (probaby more since my fighter doesnt even have any manticore's mane)
One issue with your post- Accuracy is the WORST stat for DPS increase. Critical Strike is in fact better than Accuracy for raising DPS, but even better would be a Forte in Combat Advantage or Power which are the 2 best stats for DPS boost. Only class in the whole game that invests in Accuracy is the Barb for the Overpenetration buff.
Accuracy is not the worst stat for DPS increase, there is a label "conditions apply". In the tank situation, if you allow your % to drop down to about 30%, one point to accu has significantly better impact than one point to crit. (and vice versa - if your stats are high, it is better to invest to crit/crit severity)

The tanks were hit by the enchant rework hard. First: the tenebrous used to be our dominant side over the DPS classes (power and crit did not apply). Next: the lightning and elven battle enchantments (add your favourite here ) got exterminated... both were making tanking notably better experience. And last: the new combat enchants have now ridiculous IL still without CR, which means if you slot them, you lose 5% stats across the board. As tank should be able to survive - and needs to deal dmg to gain aggro, he is bound to make a choice to sacrifice one of those things (or ignore the rework).

I do not know about the end game content, but in general, this rework deprived tanks from items they used to strive for without giving any reasonable substitution. Tanks got punished, dps have some goodies on the horizon once again. No, tanks do not need adjustment in damage, the system which makes you worse with IL increase needs to go. That is the core issue.

edit: ...and of course, the broken item "Band of Air" needs a fix. There should not be a ring that boosts your damage by 20+%.

Your post is very dramatic. The changes weren't that bad for the Tanks, I think for the healers it must have been a lot worse.

The current problem you are referring to is something already known, Immortal Tanks and no aggro due to the low % of offensive stats.

Another thing that caught my attention is about asking for "fix" on the Band of Air ring, for a player who doesn't have it, I don't agree with your argument, because the players who have it, really tried hard to get it. The game has a decent meritocracy, if you strive to farm items like Mirage or Band of Air, you are rewarded by being a better dps than the others.

rikitaki · January 2022

admiralwarlord#3792 said:

rikitaki said:

gweddeoran#4924 said:

xaltius#7326 said:
Oh i know about animation canceling. I use it all the time to increase attack speed, procs and ap regen. I can usually get full ap within 15 seconds. I dont use smite for aggro generation. Actually i only use smite in zariel for the aggro swaps. Templar's wrath all the way. And trust me it is not enough atm. I am fairly certain i know how to play paladin correctly. And in comparison to fighters we are basically dead weight. I dont exactly like to rely on aggro steals for the 1st burst when everything is going out. Templar's wrath barely makes it atm. And im not a low lvl pally either nor are my offensive stats low. 50% power and 56% combat advantage with band of air, lh weapons, and even batiri slotted and it barely keeps the big boys in check. Saga you say you run all content up to vos but vos is childsplay. Im talking about running tomm/zariel/cok where the debuffs on the boss are stacked like crazy. The dps literally hitting for 5 million on a daily or TV and encounters that also do upwards 1.5 million dmg on a bad day. Im not worried ill lose aggro in vos lol. Im worried ill run out of divinity and a dps will burst so high, that they will steal aggro even after ive done 2+ million dmg. (I even keep vow slotted for that scenario) Ofc that 2+ million dmg means the boss has not deflected any of my attacks. Which is a coin toss on every hit since everything now has 50% deflect chance. Our accuracy as paladins is garbage. I have asked for this before but we need a new forte (accuracy would work but even a 3rd defensive would not hurt in place of critical strike) Critical is fine if u are playing healer but for tank, eeeh. Not really the best option to rely on crits to do dmg.

Intimidating presence sucks. I only pointed it out because it sucks. It drains your divinity very fast, gives less dr, only on block and the aggro generation increase is quite frankly pathetic.

For solo content, it doesnt matter. You can literally play anything for solo content and complete everything with ease. It isnt even worth talking about. I 2-shot everything. My dps loadout has 84% power and 62% + crit and sev. But u cant exactly spam bane in trials even with the baneful strikes feat and you cant ignore defensive stats either.

Saga, I am not downplaying paladins. They quite literally suck atm for endgame content. Thats what my post was about. They have been getting nerfed for years and now it has become worse than ever. Pugable content isnt an issue. Trust me when I say that, 2 weeks ago I had no issues holding aggro against bigppdps and I had never used band of air or batiri for that. It was tough sure, but I did not worry. I knew my rotation would be enough to hold aggro long enough until an aggro swap (whether it is the offtank in zariel or the horn to clear stacks in tomm). As I previously said, I am not a fan of aggro steals to take aggro back from the dps. Mainly because in endgame, it means at least 1 dps will die. Soon the dps will be getting the new and improved version of lostmauth, basically proccing band of air non-stop. That is when HAMSTER will hit the fan.

My point still stands that paladins need a big aggro/dmg boost. Am I having fun playing paladin? I used to. Lately not so much. Ater mod 20 we lost too much dmg. I was consistently in the top 3 paingiver spots in most group content except for tomm/zariel (I started doing tomm late mod 19) and tanky as hell. With mod 20 paladins were reduced to mere meatshields. Its fine I guess. Ill be the meatshield. But damage is linked to aggro. And right now we got neither. That is why I am complaining, when I see fighters just strolling in with shield throw, tides of iron and retalliate and basically generating 3 times more aggro than paladins. I dont want fighters to be nerfed. I want paladins to match that. I also have a lowbie fighter tank (54k 0 mounts/insignia/collars/comps/gear ) and she is absolutely fantastic. In radq she generates as much aggro as my paladin (70k and well built) if not more. (probaby more since my fighter doesnt even have any manticore's mane)
One issue with your post- Accuracy is the WORST stat for DPS increase. Critical Strike is in fact better than Accuracy for raising DPS, but even better would be a Forte in Combat Advantage or Power which are the 2 best stats for DPS boost. Only class in the whole game that invests in Accuracy is the Barb for the Overpenetration buff.
Accuracy is not the worst stat for DPS increase, there is a label "conditions apply". In the tank situation, if you allow your % to drop down to about 30%, one point to accu has significantly better impact than one point to crit. (and vice versa - if your stats are high, it is better to invest to crit/crit severity)

The tanks were hit by the enchant rework hard. First: the tenebrous used to be our dominant side over the DPS classes (power and crit did not apply). Next: the lightning and elven battle enchantments (add your favourite here ) got exterminated... both were making tanking notably better experience. And last: the new combat enchants have now ridiculous IL still without CR, which means if you slot them, you lose 5% stats across the board. As tank should be able to survive - and needs to deal dmg to gain aggro, he is bound to make a choice to sacrifice one of those things (or ignore the rework).

I do not know about the end game content, but in general, this rework deprived tanks from items they used to strive for without giving any reasonable substitution. Tanks got punished, dps have some goodies on the horizon once again. No, tanks do not need adjustment in damage, the system which makes you worse with IL increase needs to go. That is the core issue.

edit: ...and of course, the broken item "Band of Air" needs a fix. There should not be a ring that boosts your damage by 20+%.
Your post is very dramatic. The changes weren't that bad for the Tanks, I think for the healers it must have been a lot worse.

The current problem you are referring to is something already known, Immortal Tanks and no aggro due to the low % of offensive stats.

Another thing that caught my attention is about asking for "fix" on the Band of Air ring, for a player who doesn't have it, I don't agree with your argument, because the players who have it, really tried hard to get it. The game has a decent meritocracy, if you strive to farm items like Mirage or Band of Air, you are rewarded by being a better dps than the others.

Yes, I tend to be dramatic to point out the flaws - and by no means I wanted to say everything is bad, but there are flaws that needs to be pointed at.

The Band of Air is a broken item though - and there is kinda no way to deny that if you look on the alternatives. It does not mean I want to remove things "put and effort, get a good reward". The problem is in being too good. When Demogorgon set was in its prime, it offered less than 10% average dmg increase over the alternatives. And it was labelled as "too much" even by devs and nerfed down significantly. That was a 3 part set doing smaller damage boost than this ring now.
Now, lets see what alternatives do we have in the game now - oh, sure, we have for example a ring adding 10% damage against undead. If BoA procs would sum up to "universal" 10% damage in the log, it would still be the best ring out there. Still the best under every condition. But it does much more than that... under every condition. Actually, more than what it does as a part of the set, which does not make even sense. Or would you like to say that meritocracy applies only to owners of BoA, but not of the Ring of Darkness (even though the process of obtaining them is the same) - and everyone who gets both should be punished?

edit: One more thing about the immortal tanks... and this is my personal experience: People do not like when tanks lose the aggro, but they do not like when tanks die either. "Tanks" are at fault whatever happens. You are just making choices what are you about to be guilty of, but the finger will be always on the tank.

And the problem with the system is IL without CR is a net loss. DPS chars (which care only about dmg output) can somehow offset this with the additional bonus (eg, combat enchantment 10% dmg increase) and ignore the demerit, but tank is in a different situation. Tanks do care about both damage and survivability - and that way the items that give IL without CR are twice as harmful to them.

admiralwarlord · January 2022

I don't think anyone should be punished more than they already have. Since the rework of mod 16, many good things have been implemented, but there has been a lot of suffering too. I just wanted things to work as described in the tooltips and have some stability after this last rework. Something new now, just bug fixes and new content to make everyone happy again. Nerf is removing someone's merit and that I don't agree with.

rikitaki · January 2022

@admiralwarlord While I do understand it is pain to see a nerf, that does not mean that nerf is not necessary. In the ideal world Cryptic would abandon the strategy of releasing obviously broken items just to nerf them once the acquisition ratio is good enough, but I do not see that happen. As the nerf is unavoidable anyway, I would prefer it now. Less people angry, less stretching of the inconsistent system.

crusthelvete · January 2022

I have fun

/PowerPuff

kev · January 2022

Yes, but could be better. Tank is a role I have enjoyed, it is my main character but have never done end game content with. It definitely needs better equipment than the current run round like an idiot equipment we have at the moment, and would certainly be better if there was equipment that would help us feel that we could could survive a bit longer if we played it correctly.

wilbur626 · January 2022

The current itemizarion is killing build diversity for tanks. The current content is killing the actual need for tanks. The current self-heals (potions, stones, scrolls) is killing the tank role. I do not understand why the devs think that gearing a toon to perfection for surviving mechanics that can be boiled down to pressing a single button (top of threat list) can be considered a fun playstyle.

Introducing engaging content, diversity in builds, and even reducing DPS self-heal potential in grouped content would greatly improve tank role fun.

To me it seems like the designers have no idea how a tank in NW is played, what a tank is expected to do or what tank gameplay should feel like.

Stacking stats to the bare minimum for survival + pressing hard taunt at the right moment IS NOT FUN.

admiralwarlord · January 2022

Killing Tanks diversity how @wilbur626 ?

There are several options to build Tanks, many of them already had and were or are little used. Some friends told me, GF will use Butterfly and OP Cat, and I don't understand how this would fit with the new tank enchant that gives a significant amount of % defensive stats. To be honest, my GF Tank hardly felt any difference with the changes, and I'm waiting for the Tarmalune Trade Bars discount event to finish it again, but it's almost certain that I'll use the summoned companion Ioun Stone of Radiance and that some of my numbers offensive players will be even bigger than they were in the previous module. A positive point, now I can invest in Deflect Severity, something that was impossible until then.

thordet91 · January 2022

> @admiralwarlord#3792 said:
> Killing Tanks diversity how @wilbur626 ?
>
> There are several options to build Tanks, many of them already had and were or are little used. Some friends told me, GF will use Butterfly and OP Cat, and I don't understand how this would fit with the new tank enchant that gives a significant amount of % defensive stats. To be honest, my GF Tank hardly felt any difference with the changes, and I'm waiting for the Tarmalune Trade Bars discount event to finish it again, but it's almost certain that I'll use the summoned companion Ioun Stone of Radiance and that some of my numbers offensive players will be even bigger than they were in the previous module. A positive point, now I can invest in Deflect Severity, something that was impossible until then.

Dont agree with this. We are all the same no mater what tank we play. And There is only the aoe or singletarget way to play the class. (The best way to hold aggro and best way to take less damage)

Only diversity between tanks is forte and a few companions because of forte.

Boring in my opinion

But that goes for dps this days also, dps even have the same rings now, boa and 5% power and 2% accuracy (red eyes glare?)

The devs have successfully removed diversity. Congrats!

admiralwarlord · January 2022

@thordet91#6067 you have a definite opinion and it seems that no other argument is acceptable for you, so I won't waste my time showing differences between the GF's I know and even an OP friend with whom I discuss builds a lot.

silente07 · February 2022

What diversity?
Same gear same powers for every class.
The ones that don’t have them haven gotten the yet.
Tanks: Turban, Craig, and choice of two boots. Artifacts only change when coordinating for trials.
Dps: goriostro or powrie cap or sky blazer, ribcage or midnight
Demo set with books rings are band if you can get and red eye
Healer: hood and hopefully chest piece of percip
Artifacts and neck waist twinkling gear unless they can support lower item Tiamat
Companions. Succu, spines devil, myst or wayward wizard, helemite pallly, dedicated squire or augment or choice. Hero’s of the hall seem to be out of favor in the new mod.
Just inspect folks, they all have the same gear and the end gamers and those with RNG have the bands.

Diversity has been gone for ages.
Tanks are bored and miserable because they get blamed for failing runs that the dps can’t do or screw up mechanics.
And if you know the mechanics and the dps is high enough, you don’t need tanks for content.
We used to be support and buffers
Now we are meat shields. I argued with dps that the rock phase of bore worm is there dps check. Their job to kill rocks to keep gigawats manageable. Got laughed at.

No, Tanks are not having fun.

Are tanks having fun

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