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New weapons from Crown of Keldegonn trial - mod22

aster#8001 aster Member Posts: 83 Arc User
Hello @nitocris83 @cryptic39#8917 @noworries#8859

I can remember the huge amount of threads, made by players, when celestial weapons were released on preview server and live server. People were arguing about the bonus set, especially for the casting power by encounters and daily.

Most of the classes have 3 encounters to use at the beginning of the fight. Only CW's and HR's got 4 and 6 respectively. This new weapons seem worse than celestial ones when they were proccing only using 5 encounters/daily. (And FIVE was already an high digit).
In addition, the idea of getting the same bonus from the weapons of the previous trial, is not very original.




I would like to suggest the following ideas:

1) Reduce the cast to only 3 or 4 encounter/daily in order to balance the benefits given by the weapons for all classes.
2) Remove the cast and let us have the bonus immediately.

Please fill up the conversation with your ideas and remember to be polite.
Thanks in advance.
AsteR
"The more I care for life, the more everything around me dies."

AsteR (Barbarian)
Asterina Happy Heal (DC healer)
Saber (Paladin Healer)
AsteR Lezenfan (CW)
PepinAsteR (Bard healer)

Mod22-Mod23 -Mod24 Alphatester

жShinigamiж Guild Leader



Comments

  • mparcher#3106 mparcher Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    These weapons are DoA. Sad that we have waiting 19 months for this dissapontment. Nobody that will be farming for this day 1 will even equip these things.
  • dracory1#6808 dracory1 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    The new weapons are extremely underwhelming. They removed weapon modifications, meaning we lose over 2.5k in ratings from loss to Combined Rating and keeping old ratio of 100% ilvl, 90% CR, 70% 2x random rating.

    The 6% to recharge and action point gain is negligible. If they want the weapons to be even remotely comparable to Mirage, the bonus should have reduced requirement to 4 as you said, but:

    Give 2.5% damage per stack and 5% AP and recharge speed.
    At reaching 4, stacks are consumed but the damage bonus increases to 15% and both recharge speed and action point gain are gained as well, at 10%
    Adding higher values to damage is not a bad thing as... well, the damage % values are being diminished more and more with how many sources we have already. In CoK some people will have less than half effectiveness.

    In case of number 2, I think they could just add a damage multiplier like with combat enchants. Otherwise, again, mirage will outperform the new weapons even with so much lower item level. 6% recharge, 6% AP gain and even just 5% damage multiplier would be enough considering item level increase.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    The issue with these main hands with that type of bonus is it HEAVILY favors short cooldown type abilities.
    For instance, my barbarian uses Frenzy, IBS/punishing charge and bloodletter.

    I'm not counting dailies cause they're way too slow now.

    All of those abilities have huge cooldowns, and I'd have to swap to something sub-optimal to get the bonus, because by the time the duration of the cooldowns goes down, I'd have lost most of my Ire stacks. Specifically, my punishing has 16.4s CD, frenzy 14.5s, and bloodletter 11s (plus the cast times, plus the fact that Frenzy is still buggy as hell so it doesn't always work). Yeah I'm never gonna be proccing Wrath.

    Compared it to SW healer, they can just spam one encounter 6 times and instantly get it basically. Same as the other classes mentioned by Aster.
  • sugartamalessugartamales Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    A better set bonus would be gaining up to 3 charges of 2.5% role based stat and 2% Recharge Speed/Ap Gain per encounter for 10s and refreshs on each encounter. The bonus benefits everyclass and would be sought after. This would be something that would actually make the players grind for instead of just completing it once just to say they did it. I am not too happy with the weapons as they stand and I feel like quitting after seeing them. All this waiting for a new trial and for it to be too easy with weapons that aren't worth chasing. I was expecting something like Day 1 ToMM where BiS people were struggling to complete it and the loot was actually rewarding. I doubt it matters much but I took down all my Bard videos in protest until something's done.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,190 Arc User
    Yes we need more creative bonuses that allows new builds. This bonus is booooooring.

    For example,
    - "after using 3 encounter powers you gain 100% recharge speed",
    - "when you are hit by 25% of your total HP you release an astral shield in your position for 10 secs, cooldown 40 secs.
    - "when you do a critical heal, there is a 20% chance to heal all nearby allies for XX magnitude"
    - "when your stamina is lower than 25% you get +20% action point gain



    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • vasile1991vasile1991 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited January 19
    Healers will stick to Lionheart. Some mod 17 weapons. And we're in mod 22...
    This weapon set is disappointing and the effect simply not worth bothering.

    What healer is gonna spam their encounters 6/5/4 or even 3 times to gain an effect? Nobody in their right mind will be willing to lose so much divinity to proc that set effect. Sorry but this design is horrible for healers.

    Here's my suggestion, similar to others':

    Whenever you strike a target or heal an ally gain a stack of Offense:
    +1% damage for DPS roles
    +1% healing for Healer roles
    +1% stamina regen for Tank roles
    Whenever you get struck you gain a stack of Defense:
    +1% defense for DPS roles
    +1% awareness for Healer roles
    +1% critical avoidance for Tank roles
    Gaining 1 stack of Offense, reduces 1 stack of Defense and vice-versa.
    The maximum number of stacks at any given time is 10.


    Of course, this combination of stats might not be the greatest but I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree it's already a better set effect than the one we got with this module's weapons/
    Post edited by vasile1991 on

    Viperion - DragonTribe guild leader.
    Playing Healers (Cleric, Bard & Paladin) and DPS (Warlock & Wizard).
  • boo#1439 boo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Shameless bump, Aster is right, they're gimped for most classes and unimaginative with the set bonus. Mirage will still be king of the dps and support will still run masterwork or lionheart.
  • thomasisalonethomasisalone Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    I actually don't mind the bonus; they are different in that the stacks now give you a boost whereas Celestial doesn't give anything. Admittedly it does favour warlocks and wizards on the dps side (but then again, wizards need every bone they can get!) . 5 sec shield throw spam also makes them work well for GF tanks, and OP tanks are divinity-based (sucks to be a GWF).

    At the same time, the strangeness of some of the old weapons (like mirage) is more fun. My biggest issue though is restricting set bonus based on role. It's going to get harder to hold aggro as a tank against the very high dps of 70k+ dps roles. I could swap comps and gear around to compensate, but forcing the 7.5% damage resistance onto my "serious" tank is unfortunate. And besides I like running and tinkering with my dps-tank to maximise it's damage. Of course, I could just use older weapon sets, but I like options. Elemental Evil and Cloaked Ascendency were good for having all options be available regardless of role - useful as well for the variety of content available, such as pvp or RC; the difficult those campaigns present is an long farm for just 1 weapon, let alone multiple.

    There is a shift towards having role specific bonuses, such as the Bard artifact, as well mount and comp bonuses, and now the weapons. In moderation, I guess it's fine as it reduces the amount of stuff a player needs to have to get two different roles going - which is a factor that has stopped players from choosing support roles as they need completely different from a dps - but I hope it's not going to be a long term change moving forward.
  • dracory1#6808 dracory1 Member Posts: 124 Arc User
    I think you are all forgetting about something.

    We are losing on weapon modifications. That means my bleed does 10% less damage as it's affected by Duellist's Flurry modification, we lose on up to 2.5k ratings, we lose on permanent 2.5% recharge/AP gain... Overall all we gain is more item level and more diminished ratings.

    They said there are no weapon modifications because new weapons are higher item level... but that doesn't excuse from giving them no real bonus to counter that.
  • gweddeoran#4924 gweddeoran Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    How is any Tank class with long as hamster cooldowns gonna proc this bonus even once?
  • erevel09erevel09 Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    Personally I think it should be done like this:



    This part should be changed to the following:

    "You are empowered with Scalebreaker's Wrath granting the following, depending on your role:
    DPS: +7.5% Outgoing Damage
    Tank: -7.5% Incoming Damage
    Healer: +7.5% Outgoind Healing

    Basically make it work like lionheart, but without the stamina part. It's mythic quality, celestial weapons were never used by vast majority simply because of the condition that was needed to be met. There is a reason why lionheart remain one of the best weapon sets in the game. Also, without weapon modifications it is just fair to have flat % bonuses.

    As for this part:



    It can stay as it is. Extra bonus for using more encounter and/or daily powers is decent really and provide some utility without being overpowered. Stacking up to 6 times is also alright from my perspective.
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    Some classes have more encounters (rangers, wizards), clerics and paladins have encounters without cd, making the celestial-like trigger system is very unfair.
    Stamina based (lionheart) is unfair as well, since tanks consume stamina much more than other classes.

    I think the best system is based on how many people in party have the weapon set equiped (like MW set). Or make the stacks appear randomly on hits dealed/taken.

    For the moment, the mirage set remains the best set, despite an item level below half of latest sets.
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    Absolut trash.. cya next mod. This tank is not rebuilding anything.
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited January 21
    Anyway, weapon set from any new trial should be obviously bis, in the same way that the Band of Air rules them all.

    And nerfing the mirage weapons to make others look better isn't a good solution.
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    They could at least have tried to give players a reason to rebuild their characters. (Buy some zen)
  • flinnty#9711 flinnty Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    Yeah, these weapons are a big disappointment, I cannot really see myself using them, maybe on my hunter but even there I would not get the fully stacked buff until after I finish the encounter section of my rotation (which is the hardest hitting portion) so it seems a bit useless. Please try to find something more creative, this bonus is dead on arrival. Oh, and please please add a mount to the trial to replace that ugly cloak, my paladin cannot even wear cloaks because they clipp through the shield and it's unsightly.
    Even if it is just a reskin of an existing mount that is fine.
  • dielonely29#7417 dielonely29 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Most classes that are top dps still prefer mirage over this weapon. Cryptic keeps on copy pasting the set bonus and im still wondering why we dont have an end game weapon with the same bonus as mirage. Id rather have a trial with droppable weapons same as the set bonus of mirage rather than mindlessly farming river district just to get mirage. If they dont bother having new ideas regarding set bonuses just copy the most use items today, paste it and increase its item level then call it a day.
  • fritz#8093 fritz Member Posts: 282 Arc User
    Think this is the typical veteran vs. new player problem. Cryptic first and foremost has to cater to incoming players and the weapons seem to be designed as "bis" for those that have recently joined and never participated in the trials of former mods. It often feels each mod has it's own little item progression and very rarely can you clearly upgrade from something of a much older mod. Another example are the new chase items. Yeah sure you might have additional balancing options switching from Rib Cage to the new armor, but it's not an obvious upgrade of former bis. And the rest pretty much stinks.

    Let's leave Mirage out of the discussion btw. because the power of the set was an unintended side effect of the combat changes. I don't think it was supposed to be that good, confirmed by the fact that Mirage initially wasn't a valid option when it first came out in Mod 11 (iirc).

    Speaking of Mod 11, I liked how the weapons had very distinct set bonuses with niche effects. Now with most of the Armor and Weapon Enchantments going away, I think the devs missed an opportunity to give players (self)healing, CC, and group buffs/bonuses through different weapon set choices.

  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    bump. Make the weapons better, and maybe some players will come back.
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 417 Arc User
    Recycling the celestial buff and adding a stack is quite lazy for bonus. Also, the weapons are not bad on a warlock if using executioners gift feat, but if using creeping death it breaks the feat. What really gets me is how can a weapon set that has no modifications break a class feat causing continuous 0 damage and mobs to always dodge the damage?
  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    They are good...For appearance weapons ;)
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