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Vanguard Level 20 feats (Shake it Off compared to Deep Breathing)
wilbur626
Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
I have been playing with a "DPS" tank setup lately, and I have been looking at the less used powers/feats in the Vanguard arsenal. I found that some of the unpopular powers (Kneebreaker for example) can be extremely good, and that some powers are just really bad for all build variations (Knights Challenge and Shield Slam).
When testing different feat setups, I found something that puzzles me :
Im having a real hard time figuring out when a Vanguard tank should be using the feat "Deep Breathing".
For this feat to reach its maximum potential I have to Dig In for 9 seconds. 9 seconds with zero damage dealt or threat generated is "rewarded" with a damage increase of a whooping 12% for 10 seconds.
The alternative feat that unlocks at level 20 "Shake it Off" increases the Vanguards hardest hitting threat generator damage by 60%
As Retaliate can be used every 10 seconds, effectively making it the Vanguards 4th encounter power, increasing its damage by 60% is a huge boost.
Comparing the two feats up against eachother in a timeframe of 1 minute yields the following results :
Slotting the feat "Shake it Off", increases the damage dealt in the test window by 15,7%
Slotting the feat "Deep Breathing" DECREASES the damage dealt in the test window by -17%
Difference in damage dealt when comparing the two feats : 32,7%.
This means that slotting "Deep Breathing" is ALWAYS a bad choice, both for traditional tanks and tanks focusing on offensive stats.
Since @noworries#8859 has stated several times that they are willing to make adjustments to classes based on feedback I'm hoping that this particular feat will get some attention.
I would suggest changing the feat to give a flat damage boost of 20% that is activated after Retaliate hits an enemy. This would make "Shake it Off" the optimal choice for tanky tanks due to low offensive stats, and "Deep Breathing" the goto alternative for the offensive focused tanks.
When testing different feat setups, I found something that puzzles me :
Im having a real hard time figuring out when a Vanguard tank should be using the feat "Deep Breathing".
For this feat to reach its maximum potential I have to Dig In for 9 seconds. 9 seconds with zero damage dealt or threat generated is "rewarded" with a damage increase of a whooping 12% for 10 seconds.
The alternative feat that unlocks at level 20 "Shake it Off" increases the Vanguards hardest hitting threat generator damage by 60%
As Retaliate can be used every 10 seconds, effectively making it the Vanguards 4th encounter power, increasing its damage by 60% is a huge boost.
Comparing the two feats up against eachother in a timeframe of 1 minute yields the following results :
Slotting the feat "Shake it Off", increases the damage dealt in the test window by 15,7%
Slotting the feat "Deep Breathing" DECREASES the damage dealt in the test window by -17%
Difference in damage dealt when comparing the two feats : 32,7%.
This means that slotting "Deep Breathing" is ALWAYS a bad choice, both for traditional tanks and tanks focusing on offensive stats.
Since @noworries#8859 has stated several times that they are willing to make adjustments to classes based on feedback I'm hoping that this particular feat will get some attention.
I would suggest changing the feat to give a flat damage boost of 20% that is activated after Retaliate hits an enemy. This would make "Shake it Off" the optimal choice for tanky tanks due to low offensive stats, and "Deep Breathing" the goto alternative for the offensive focused tanks.
Elite Whaleboy
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Comments
They only help players that didn't do their tank homework for learning the designated moments to block, or in exceedingly rarer circumstances where you have a bunch of debuff stacks and need the instant stamina to not overtax healer resources.
But you can avoid the former moment by simply learning when to block better, the latter moment usually comes from making mistakes (like getting hit by things with debuffs) or if you're playing the game NOT as designed (I don't think "use KC to regain stamina to absorb Halaster's Magic Missiles while having 5+ debuff stacks in solotank ToMM" was part of the original Mod 17 design).
Knight's Challenge has an additional problem that the added effect is terrible, since it only works on (regular) block and is based around enemies hitting you rapidly.
If you're going to block attacks, you are going to use Dig In for its superior stat bonus and stronger portion of HP blocked.
Most enemies don't hit you that rapidly enough to proc the bonus.
Only reason KC is in the state that it's in is because asterdahl was so scared of the 3 hit Conqueror that he had to fully kill off KC, just to be sure.
... Even though he already made enough systemic changes that ensured you would never be dealing 50x your expected damage and certaintly not on a tank spec either.
Derp. Shield Slam and Shield Bash/Guarded Strike feel outdated due to being made for a different game and different priorities.
As a power, Frontline Surge (the original name of Shield Slam) was a translation of a 4e D&D concept where the power would be useful for pushing back enemies trying to slip past you.
This made sense in a turn based tactics game where the DM can make the adds ignore you and go attack your party's squishies, but not in a post Mod 6 NW where aggro solves everything and there are next to no adds to meaningfully control.
Guarded Strike and Shield Bash, once upon a time, were vital for holding aggro and for helping new players maintain their Guard meter. But with the advent of Dig In and the systemic changes to tanking in Mod 16, there is no tactical reason to use the blocking at-wills anymore.
If you're going to block, you use Dig In for how numerically overtuned it is.
If you're going to attack for single target aggro, you are going to spam Threatening Rush and/or Shield Throw.
if you're going to attack tor AoE aggro, you are going to use Cleaving Bull with Cleave, Retaliate, and/or Linebreaker.
Seemingly not.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Barbs have versions of most f the old GF attacks, and no squat. Try them.
The proc chance of Melvin's ring is only 5%. For AOE this could work but generally the damage adds do is small (further reduced I think by your mitigation - I could be wrong), and you're only doing 50% of the damage you take which is then mitigated to at least 2/3's of that damage. So in practice the damage is only 1/3 of the damage you take on 1/20 incoming hits, which isn't worth it. Doing a quick retaliate than digging in again is more effective.
Armando's Dueling Boots have a 30% proc chance on a deflection to send back 5% of the incoming damage. Ignoring the tiny damage you send back, deflect is a statistic that is not particularly helpful - it's hard to get a lot of it without sacrificing other more useful stats; it's utility depends on having high deflect severity which is very difficult for GF; and you can't deflect when using Block or Dig In - so it's usually a dump stat. That last point is a killer though, and it makes the boots useless for the massive hits that require Dig In. Lastly, in PvP having a low deflect is important because if your deflect sev is lower than your opponent's accuracy, you take more damage when you deflect an attack than if you didn't.
There are also quite a few encounters in the GF arsenal that are useless. I can think of situations where Shield Slam might work if mobs are grouped up as a quick cc power, but it's nothing amazing. It's also not going to help with aggro of mobs. Ideally I'd want to see an extra aoe power added to the GF encounter list. Without Ring of the Condemned, it's pretty difficult to hold aggro of lots of mobs, and I would like the option to not use RoC (same is true for GWFs too). Paladin's get a few AOE powers - Vow of Emnity, Bane, Burning Light, and Templar's Wrath - the first two of which are ranged! Of course, there are benefits to a GF over an OP, but one useful AOE encounter would be nice.
Edit: Enforced Threat is aoe, but it's buggy and only puts you at the top of the threat list so you can immediately lose aggro with it; this is somewhat helped with Cleaving Bull but 40 mag is still going to be easy to lose. I would rather have something that does damage ~300 mag and increases threat.
For comparison, Templar's Wrath puts OPs at the top of the Threat List for all mobs in the AOE, is ranged, and does 160 mag.
As a preview server beta tester for this skill a few years ago, it's interesting to see how it evolved.
So different from the "potty squat" from it's initial release.
Glad tanks like Wilbur are forcing the devs to make it better.
Keep fighting the good fight for tank equality.
Cheers.
The Took
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.