Make real random queues

onlymat · August 2021

What I mean is: The random queues is now only a random dungeon or skirmish.
Cool would be to have a random queue where you can not queue up as a group so you have to queue alone.
It should give more AD and it would help lower Ilvl players to get in queues more often.
Because people make premade groups the queues have very high waiting times to pop.
If you are single player or new player and can't get into dungeons then you will quit the game after a while. Noone wants to wait forever to run a dungeon.

rockster · August 2021

And this is only going to get worse now that undergeared new players are in random queues for advanced content and the fail chance is higher. Players were already forming groups for daily randoms so there was less chance of failure before the rollout (those in my alliance usually form groups to do them for example) but it's worse now. I always queue solo because I want to choose the moment I accept the queue to get the healer bonus and have seen lately that the wait time has blown out considerably even being a healer, I assume because less people are queuing solo than ever before. Being a healer I wait less than most people for a queue (only second to tanks which are always the most scarce and finding one causes the most delays) so if I now have to sit there for well-over half an hour to get a queue it's pretty bad. I think the average max time for me waiting was no more than 15 minutes and usually much less, sometimes within 5.

pherrow · August 2021

onlymat said:
What I mean is: The random queues is now only a random dungeon or skirmish.
Cool would be to have a random queue where you can not queue up as a group so you have to queue alone.
It should give more AD and it would help lower Ilvl players to get in queues more often.
Because people make premade groups the queues have very high waiting times to pop.
If you are single player or new player and can't get into dungeons then you will quit the game after a while. Noone wants to wait forever to run a dungeon.

Getting into dungeons is one thing, Being able to complete the content as a new player is another thing entirely.

So you think people will just be like "damn, I can't que with my friends. Might as well just que in and carry new players"? I think those folks will quit instead. Or whatever content that remains outside of your above requirements will be qued as a premade. And before you reiterate on giving more AD...AD isn't worth it if you have to spend over an hour to get even 50k running with nothing IL level 5s. Even if your ques popped instantly, some might just find that an hour+ run isn't worth the trouble. Especially for rough AD.

But at least you think like cryptic. Force people to help precious new players.

pherrow · August 2021

Actually, thats probably too harsh as you are just trying to find fun in the game like anyone else. Yes the situation sucks and cryptic needs to do better. I don't think your suggestion is the fix, however.

armadeonx · August 2021

I would like to remind Cryptic that when they had Mod 20 on preview and had announced that Defence was going to change from 90% effectiveness to 50% (when at 90% on the player stat) the feedback was that a lot of people would stop playing as tank and the RQ would suffer dramatically.

This prediction has come true and is the sole reason the RQ now lists Tanks instead of Healers as the bonus class.

rockster · August 2021

Healers are still included as the bonus class, it alternates back and forth between tanks and healers according to what the system thinks are most needed and keeps re-calculating, but as tanks are the most needed most times you look at it it has tanks displayed as the bonus. But if you wait long enough it changes to healers periodically, lights-up white for me and offers the same bonus as tanks get.

greywynd · August 2021

Sometimes even the DPS pops up. A lot less often now, but it does.

rockster · August 2021

Yea, I used to quickly change loadouts to DPS to get the bonus and not wait any longer, but have not seen DPS show for a very long time now.

armadeonx · August 2021

My top 2 toons are a pally tank and a healer cleric so I always queue for the bonus - tank is up about 2/3rds of the time where it used to mostly be healer.

The fact that the stamina bar goes down fast now is also a problem for tanks and makes me appreciate @wilbur626 saying that deflect is a good stat to slot for - but you need to have a very highly specced toon to get maxed defence & awareness AND high deflect chance & severity.

This creates a cost & capability gap for new players trying the tank path, especially as other players are very unforgiving of an under-geared tank in their group. I suspect many now switch to other classes early on.

rockster · August 2021

I have also seen tanks get a lot of aggro from other players because it's a very unforgiving class to play, if you get it wrong or do things which aren't all that smart, everybody notices immediately and comments. I don't think any other classes have this happen.

callumf · August 2021

rockster#6227 said:
I have also seen tanks get a lot of aggro from other players because it's a very unforgiving class to play, if you get it wrong or do things which aren't all that smart, everybody notices immediately and comments. I don't think any other classes have this happen.

Agree - its why I ditched tanking 2+ years ago.

So much hate for tanks running FBI in the old days, trying to get up that hill

xenocide · August 2021

The queue times are only long for dps classes.
My advice to players who want to run dungeons is to make an alt in a tank or healing spec for dungeon farming
With the gear you can get from seals and new leveling up rewards you can slap an alt together pretty quickly and have him ready to farm your random dungeon and trial queue.

Of course if you are set on playing a dps role finding an active alliance to play in can really help to fill some of those tank/heal spots for a faster pop

mushellka · August 2021

callumf#9018 said:

rockster#6227 said:
I have also seen tanks get a lot of aggro from other players because it's a very unforgiving class to play, if you get it wrong or do things which aren't all that smart, everybody notices immediately and comments. I don't think any other classes have this happen.
Agree - its why I ditched tanking 2+ years ago.

So much hate for tanks running FBI in the old days, trying to get up that hill

The problem you raised is the a tip of the iceberg. Lately I've had the questionable pleasure of observing a chat room that was set up (as it was intended) to help young tanks. Unfortunately it is often used to express hate towards dpses and healers. Many times this chat turns into a tutorial on how to kill a "stupid dps" who dared to outrun a tank in dungeon. Disgusting. No advice, lots of venom. If you want to be treated without aggression, treat others as you wish to be treated.

azarael87 · August 2021

^^ This is the way. (I know what channel you are referring to, I am myself a part of it). And the talk there usually turns to how to kill a dps instead of how to tank is because of the dps running ahead of tank. But that, I believe does not happen a lot now a days. I do pretty fare amount of PUG randoms and I barely see a dps running ahead of me. So I really don't know why is it like that. I saw one conversation, some tank mentioned he raised the heal and did let all other dps die in first boss VOS. I simply asked one question, were you actually able to finish that boss off? Well to my expectations there was no answer and the chat turned to something else.
Thing is, I main almost all the classes in the game. I have dps main as well as tank main, and if anyone knows how to play their class there will be no issues with runs. The present condition is such cause of the game is slapping advanced dungeons with heavy mechanics to completely new players who does not have proper gears, set up or understanding of class or mechanics.

armadeonx · August 2021

mushellka said:

callumf#9018 said:

rockster#6227 said:
I have also seen tanks get a lot of aggro from other players because it's a very unforgiving class to play, if you get it wrong or do things which aren't all that smart, everybody notices immediately and comments. I don't think any other classes have this happen.
Agree - its why I ditched tanking 2+ years ago.

So much hate for tanks running FBI in the old days, trying to get up that hill
The problem you raised is the a tip of the iceberg. Lately I've had the questionable pleasure of observing a chat room that was set up (as it was intended) to help young tanks. Unfortunately it is often used to express hate towards dpses and healers. Many times this chat turns into a tutorial on how to kill a "stupid dps" who dared to outrun a tank in dungeon. Disgusting. No advice, lots of venom. If you want to be treated without aggression, treat others as you wish to be treated.

That's terrible. I get why a lot of tanks have negative feelings toward other classes but getting ppl killed and/or ruining a run is totally not the answer.

The only way to avoid getting HAMSTER from others is (1) to research an unfamiliar dungeon/trial beforehand so you know the mechanics and (2) understand your class mechanics/powers well enough to just maintain aggro. I mean, it really is just a case of 'stand in the right place, maintain aggro, don't die' and whilst 'don't die' is where the stats come in, the 'stand in the right place' is all about gaining that knowledge beforehand.

But an inexperienced tank stands out like a wart on the nose. An inexperienced/poor dps can hide behind the others - in fact, many random queues have 1 good dps and 2 'and also' players. A poor healer also gets more forgiveness.

mushellka · August 2021

Some people never learn.
We all know (at least from stories) Mr."I-never-loose-aggro-because-I-never-hold-aggro". Ever since vos showed up, he's been gathering people in the enclave on various channels for this dungeon. Several times a day.
By the now he probably tested the entire PC community, when it comes to dps and healers. And what turned out? Everyone, without exception, is bad, terrible and sucks. Especially healers. It usually gets to the first boss and the pt falls apart. The percentage of vos completions in his performance oscillates around 0,5% which is similar to the chance of winning in shitbox

What I'm getting at. A bad tank, just like a healer will always be more visible than a bad dps. Those two paragons have to learn a new dungeon, which always happens at the expense of the rest of the pt. If people consciously playing with that person, everything is ok. If you start by cheating and pretending to be experienced, you're ruining the reputation of other tanks/healers. People are then afraid to go with random supports, it creates a vicious circle. And a lot of hate.

That's why i'm against selling rings from vos, and weapons from tomm/zariel, among other things. Because this is the only indication of experience in the dungeons at the moment. Now it's easy to make a 50+ k char for money. It's harder to know your class and do the right thing.

rockster · August 2021

The tanks which grate on me the most are the ones who run ahead and leave everyone else behind but can't tank and then die immediately and then complain that there are no heals. I will remind any tanks reading this that the actual name 'tank' comes from an actual armored tank in modern war. They are impenetrable and can almost take any damage thrown at them without suffering too much. That's where the name comes from. (This is similar to the term 'glass cannon' which means a DPS who has high damage output but minimum defense, meaning that they are like a cannon made out of glass, they can do massive damage like a cannon, but hits from enemies shatter them like glass. They basically can dish it out but they can't take it themselves.) A tank who cannot in effect tank, is not imo a tank at all. The correct role of a tank is first to hold aggro and draw all enemies away from others so everyone else doesn't get attention from enemies who can only focus on one player at a time, and therefore do not suffer damage, the tank then holds them in place in one spot keeping them busy and is able to survive without dying (yes, even without heals) while others do all the damage. If they can't take the damage they are not doing their job. And if they run far ahead like kamikazes leaving everyone behind this is impossible for the party and they're useless to everyone.

armadeonx · August 2021

As someone who mostly runs tank or healer and loves playing that support role, I always feel bad if anyone in the team dies if it's my fault (rarely happens these days!).

I absolutely cannot understand the mentality of someone who runs a support role and then plays like a prima donna.

pherrow · August 2021

The recent posts by Mushellka, Rockster, and Armadeonx illustrate perfectly what the game has become and it's my biggest gripe. It's too easy and new players are given too big of a crutch. Learn to play IS a thing. No matter the class, what you doindividually IS important for the team's success. Especially in more difficult content.
And when we talk about support classes, that, inho, is an art. It's the control of the environment and the smoothing of chaos that's makes a tank a tank. The healer's intuition and perception is the glue that keeps it all in check. Those smooth runs just don't seem to happen often in a pug these days. But it's awesome in the small occasions when it does.

armadeonx · August 2021

arkhadiam#2543 said:

armadeonx said:

The fact that the stamina bar goes down fast now is also a problem for tanks....
It is a problem if tanks are not builded correctly or dont know how to manage their defensive resources.

Very true - but it's also highly dependent on item level now that HP is directly tied to it. Tanks between the 30-40k range getting put into harder dungeons means they have a very hard time.

Make real random queues

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