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M21 Vaulted Content
eminnerdev
Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 32Cryptic Developer › Cryptic Developer
The removal of some zones will be covered in an upcoming blog but it will be a major topic for a lot of players so I wanted to take the chance to provide some direct information here.
These are the zones we have removed from the leveling flow:
Blacklake District
Tower District
Blackdagger Ruins
Helm's Hold
Pirate's Skyhold
Rothe Valley
Mount Hotenow
We did not make this decision lightly and we know there are players out there that enjoyed each of these spaces, so here are some of the reasons behind this selection. Some of these zones were selected because they are later reused in the Elemental Evil content, which is now a more accessible Adventure. Some, like Pirate's Skyhold, were selected because we didn't feel the visual fidelity and content flow were up to standards and there was real potential to reimagine these spaces in the future. And others showed that many players would not complete them according to our analytics.
With the new Adventure system, it will be much easier for us to reintroduce content as we identify the opportunity or need. Compared to the new Sharandar, bringing these zones back would look more like a new Epic Adventure at level 20 that has refreshed rewards, a smoother questing experience, various fixes, and more polished visuals. We currently have no plans to evolve other existing adventure zones the way we did with Sharandar.
We understand these kinds of changes have a cost, but we believe we are moving the game in a positive direction for all of our players.
Thank you for playing!
These are the zones we have removed from the leveling flow:
Blacklake District
Tower District
Blackdagger Ruins
Helm's Hold
Pirate's Skyhold
Rothe Valley
Mount Hotenow
We did not make this decision lightly and we know there are players out there that enjoyed each of these spaces, so here are some of the reasons behind this selection. Some of these zones were selected because they are later reused in the Elemental Evil content, which is now a more accessible Adventure. Some, like Pirate's Skyhold, were selected because we didn't feel the visual fidelity and content flow were up to standards and there was real potential to reimagine these spaces in the future. And others showed that many players would not complete them according to our analytics.
With the new Adventure system, it will be much easier for us to reintroduce content as we identify the opportunity or need. Compared to the new Sharandar, bringing these zones back would look more like a new Epic Adventure at level 20 that has refreshed rewards, a smoother questing experience, various fixes, and more polished visuals. We currently have no plans to evolve other existing adventure zones the way we did with Sharandar.
We understand these kinds of changes have a cost, but we believe we are moving the game in a positive direction for all of our players.
Thank you for playing!
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Comments
Besides, I don't even remember when I walked on these maps, that everything you planned was pleasant.
That goes a long way towards explaining what the design team values when it come to story vs. combat. These were the adventure zones where we got to experience the region of NeverWinter, where the setting became a character in the ongoing story, and bonds were forged with recurring NPCs that took part in multiple storylines.
I started playing NeverWinter in December 2020, and the list above is specifically the list of adventure zones that kept me playing as I hit later content that shifted the focus towards "grinding" for restoration gear, rare items, etc.
This is a massive disappointment, coming from a relatively new player. I'm grateful that I at least got to experience the parts of NeverWinter that were steeped in character and story, before the current phase of hunter-killer, bounty-fest, and endless heroic encounters that do nothing to drive any sort of plot.
For six months I've heard people say that they remember when NeverWinter was fun. I always laughed and said, "This is like asking, When did SNL stop being funny?" I didn't expect to have a personal answer this soon.
If you can alienate long-term players and also someone who just started playing six months ago with the same decision, you rolled yourself a natural 20 with this one.
How will this impact Maze Engine and Tyranny of Dragons? Rothe Valley is one of five key areas for the Tyranny of Dragons campaign, and Maze Engine relies on visiting at least one of these locations (Blacklake).
Additionally, I would like to agree with Emese regarding the graphics note you provide above. SKYHOLD IS VISUALLY STUNNING. It's the example I use of the high point of what Neverwinter is capable of showing us. It's also got a complex plotline that goes from pillaging natural resources to breaking the curse of an undead pirate captain, and it does it all without resorting to the same repetition of quests that plague the four chapters of Elemental Evil or...shudder...New Sharandar.
To echo Esme's question--and at the risk of never getting an answer to my questions above--it feels as though the reasons above were manufactured in the hope that people won't care enough to call them out as outright lies. None of the regions listed above fit into the reasons you provided, excepting of course the fact that we cannot access the analytics that you reference. All I can say regarding analytics is that I have personally completed every one of the adventure zones listed and found them to be among my favorites.
The ones you're keeping - especially Whispering Caverns and Vellosk - are among the least visually appealing, the weakest in terms of overall narrative, and the most combat intensive. It genuinely feels like your true motivations are far removed from those you list.
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you are taking out most of the good stuff.
The stuff that stood the test of time and was always refreshing to run through on a new character.
You are taking out the bits from the years that i enjoyed the game the most.
All those interesting stories just gone.
you Better edit together something good because i am so tired of the current trend of sloppily cutting pieces out and and barely bothering to sew up the holes.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
Here is my serious FAQ for you.
Does this mean module 15 "Heart of Fire" aka Acquisitions Incorporated is gone or just broken? The reason I ask, this campaign uses Blacklake as the starting point. Without Blacklake, new players have no exposition of this area. This removal kills an otherwise humorous historical point of the plot. The Nashers are pivotal in Cloaked Ascendancy as they attack the celebration. New players again have no exposition to understand their connection to the crown of Neverwinter and what their objection to Lord Neverember has to do with the plot. In short, I think you are digging plot holes you just cannot fill.
Why is Vellosk not on that list of vaulted content? I think that is maybe the only one I never fully played even 10%. I did return several times to do Maze Engine, but never to complete the werewolf versus Netherese campaign. This content appeals to someone, I don't desire to play it, but someone out there does. If you based this vaulted content solely according to your analytics, Stardock should be gone too. I haven't seen more than 5 to 10 players in that broom closet you call a campaign. As small and unattractive as it is, I would not wish it to be deleted.
I think I will reserve the remainder of any questions for a later date. At this point, I seriously believe Champions Online will out number the population of all 3 platforms, once players get back from summer vacation, and find this steaming pile you plan to pass off as something better.
Good job, I bet anything everyone at Cryptic Studios is posting their resumes about now.
Just killing time...
Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
I'm tired.
Tbh, I haven't enjoyed playing in a while.
I can't justify leaving with a r20 guild.
Why..why do you Cryptic insist on deleting content so you can....call it special at a later date?
Been here since start of 2014.
Here today.... goin tomorrow.
Don't buy from the zen store as it may be junk in a day or so.
I very much still dislike what you did to castle never...freaking demons...we liked a dungeon you could actually have fun in and.....explore.
You are going to try and force us to go do content....we prefer choice!
- The Explorer's Charts for Pirate's Skyhold and Mount Hotenow still point to the now removed content.
So if you want to make the game feel more like D&D keep the mentioned areas inside Neverwinter City
> My view: Keep Blacklake and Tower district as they have a very strong D&D feel and have a connection to the Canon of the Realms. Remove the Chasm instead - the Spellplague stuff is an irrelevant historical footnote in the current Realms....
>
> So if you want to make the game feel more like D&D keep the mentioned areas inside Neverwinter City
Pleading or asking them to keep certain areas is already moot. It's already on Preview, the course is decided and they have yet to yield to player concerns, even with highly unpopular decisions. Once something is on preview, they're looking to polish it and receive feedback, there is no option to scrap the content in favor of another course of action. This is the content they are offering moving forward, it's our choice as players whether to participate in it or not.
Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
NeverWinter used to be such a well-constructed story. Valindra had an arc that led through to the end of Dread Ring. What you did in Rothe Valley led into Whispering Caverns. There was an actual story where you were fighting to defend NeverWinter from actual enemies that had motivation and organization.
With these pieces removed you have a series of disjointed encounters ("adventures") without an overarching plot...
When I was 14 years old my players told me that they wanted more out of their game. As DM, they expected me to provide more than just "monster of the week." The bedrock of Neverwinter was the absolutely enthralling introductory content that captured all of our imaginations and made us care enough to suffer through uninspired nonsense like Acquisitions Incorporated and the mindless grind of bounties, heroic encounters, and two-missions-at-a-time-but-they're-all-really-the-same that is New Sharandar.
Tear out those first 200 pages of the book and you're left with actions scenes that bring neither investment nor satisfaction.
Still baffled by the decisions of what to keep and what to cut. Baffled.
Who chooses to cut the story out of a story?
My 2 cents.
I've played this game since mod2 and have rage quit several times over the years due to what I perceived to be my character and hard work and individual character creation made lovingly over long periods of time being torn to shreds and feeling severely violated as a result. But you know what always brought me back? Against my better judgement? I missed the place. I missed just being there. I missed the environments, the artwork, the atmosphere they create when you are in them, to me Neverwinter PC has been more of a real place to spend time and escape rl than just a game to play. When you are dealing with a 3D environment it becomes more than just combat skills, mechanics and items, it is the place itself. This is all the maps and locations contained in the game. There are many of us who don't just go to locations when we have quests there, we run around our favourite areas and soak it in just happy to be there, marveling at the artwork people worked so hard to painstakingly create (I've done builds myself and know how tedious and hard it is to place every single prop and create something out of nothing which feels real to be in and I do certainly appreciate the artwork that has been created in Neverwinter by some extremely talented people, to say it doesn't have 'visual fidelity' is a bunch of hogwash), this game really is (soon to be was) a thing of extreme beauty. It feels like home and we are familiar with the places we go and it brings us much joy. Other people park their characters in certain places when offline so that map which they particularly like is the first thing they see when they come back in. The locations themselves ARE what keeps people playing and what gives this game its heart. And you are ripping it apart. You are taking away what makes Neverwinter unique and why people play it, checked it out in the first place and decided to commit to it because what they found set it apart from all other games they looked at, you're ripping out the very heart of it, aside from what others have already said about things such as storyline and context which I firmly agree with also, you are in my view removing what actually makes Neverwinter Neverwinter. The locations in the game. I don't think you guys there are in touch with reality and certainly not in touch with the players. To delete half of it? Wtaf. What are you on? Are you in such an echo chamber there you have completely lost touch with what this game is about and why players stay?
And for what? To save a few bucks on server space because there are less players now and less $$$ coming in than before due to terrible decisions you guys made in the past, that's on you, it's not the fault of the players. You're denying existing players the experiences they deserve and new players the opportunity to also experience those wonderful places and things. Sure, you save a few more bucks by re-packaging old places as new mods which is lazy and cheap and requires less financial outlay to hire the appropriate talent to do it, but you are making a terrible terrible mistake because by ripping the game to pieces to 're-work' it, you're destroying what makes it a loved game to old and new alike.
No-one should be deleting any content, you should be adding more new content on top of what is already there, but if that is financially prohibitive due to past decisions made by the company and the way it has affected the dwindling playerbase and the shrinking financial bottom line, then speaking only for myself, I would prefer the game would just stay static and never have any new content than to have it slowly eaten-away like some horrible cancer and end-up a completely different place to that which it was.
I honestly can't wrap my head around how an 8 year-old game which has maintained popularity long after it logically should have (hmmm... might be the artwork, storylines and locations you're deleting) is suddenly cutting all sorts of content OUT of it thinking it's going to make the game better. You're actually just slowly killing it. I hope you're all happy.
P.S. "With the new Adventure system, it will be much easier for us to reintroduce content as we identify the opportunity or need." Translation: 'Our priority is us, not the experience of the players.'
Just killing time...
Avernus introduced a very nice and polished dust storm - and ever since my game looks ugly as hell because I was forced to switch all the graphic settings to minimum just to enable my sight to barely function in that location.
It perfectly reflects the fact that in a real dust storm you cannot see a hamster even if it stands right in front of you... however...
What I wanted to say: The whole game graphics are now completely desolated just because you introduced "more polished visuals". No more grass, no more shadows, no more anything at all... it is bare - because you decided to enrich the visual experience. That improvement had completely opposite effect for me.
May be less is more sometimes?
If not, this game is more and more turning into an another 13 in in a dozen hack and slash game....
D&D can be that, but that is not the game I want to spend money on or even play.
oh and just a thought, what happens to all the class and race specific quests in those areas?
Tower District: You help thwart a band of marrauding orcs that have a strong tie to the history of the realms, and help the gaurd reclaim tactically valuable territory, showing your worth to the gaurd and the military.
Blackdagger Ruins: You help bring down pirates who have been scourging the coasts and sailors of the area. You also get introduced to the Harpers, who become recurring allies. You prove your worth to the common sailors as well as the Harpers who are sworn to protect the realms.
Helm's Hold: You fight off fiends terrorizing the sick and help the last priest of a missing god care for the downtrodden. You prove your worth to the weakest and most desperate citizens of the area.
Pirate's Skyhold: A fun change of pace fighting undead pirates and lizard folk a thousand feet in the air.
Rothe Valley: You litterally save peasents from slavery and defeat the forces of an evil spider god. You show your worth to the commoners of the areas surrounding and supporting neverwinter.
Mount Hotenow: i admit i just breezed through this area and didn't care much about the story, but a lot of other peole seemed to be having fun.
Cutting all these out undercuts your title of "hero of neverwinter" you aren't called that because you did a favor for the crown, you positively impacted the lives of almost every sector of the city's populace. Without many of the stories the title of hero of neverwinter will ring hollow and have much less meaning. Given that all the foundational story is being excised i have to wonder is someone is pulling a "This isn't the Old Dev team's game anymore, it is mine!" and disregarding the players and the foundational story that kept this game going, and is the starting point for so many other stories.
It is a bad idea, and i am not just wasting my time being mad on the internet, i am trying to love this game dispite all the bad decisions the Devs are making, and i love it enough to tell the people who can nuke my account with the snap of a finger, that they are wrong.
i love this game, and you harming it is wrong. I hope you reconsider.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.