> @hadestemplar#9918 said: > And I as expected such answer. > I asked have you done demonic heroic encounters. yet instead answering yes or no, or even I have done it loong time ago. > You simply put wall of text with tale about your guild past. > > For most forum members it's become hard to talk without putting lines like: > I play this game since it's start or since x module. > I have founded and max out x quantity of guilds. > > Like that would be a matter. What was done in past, it's remain in past. The matter is what it is now. > > > There are x3 main reasons why guilds are founded and why players join. > > 1) social active guild - such guilds predate Stronghold expansion(mod 7), its not matter if there is stronghold or not, they do content together. Cuz for them guild is place where gather same minded players. > > 2) boons, items and etc - in such type guilds, social activity is nearly dead stuff. Players join guild for boons, but never do content with their own guild or alliance.. They do them with other alliances or with pugs in general. > > > 3) Storage purpose - name explain,, guild founded just for guild bank. No one bother to upgrade such guild. > > > The type two become more common, cuz you no longer need be part of x guild or alliance to have chat with them or do content. The custom chat like > NW_Legit_community or ToMM/Zarial_completed. There you look for players to form parties. > > Some guilds still hold on type one, but for how long it will last? > > As long there is no decent guild/alliance content in stronghold, then guilds become less relevant. > > The current quests in stronghold mostly done solo. > Dungeons? join in random q with pugs. > Heroics? Average player walk over any minor heroics without any problems. > Big heroics ? Giants, Twin devils( No Sypahy), and even beholders all is require some foot work, but even they bring no challenge. > Kill 100 enemies in sttronghold? > > Fights which bring no challenge, gameplay which is mostly done solo. How many times you do till it's become boring? > > My first 5 mmorpg games where eastern ones, so for me heavy grind in not new, not mentioned repeatable grinding. > But at least in there it was more fun and more content done as guild, not solo.
I can see you didn’t read or comprehend what I said. Yes demon heroic done multiple times, in fact on ANY map it scales harder with more people.
You have a set idea of what a guild is. For MY Alliance is a place to find help for content and do RTQ or the like. Stronghold content needs refreshed, but not made harder or scaled. We need a place to check numbers unscaled with out instance worries and with people there to help. The T1 heroics SHOULD be able to be done solo by a level 80. PERIOD. That’s what they were made for. Not everyone has time to do ALL content in a group. If it’s made into that PEOPLE WONT PLAY.
You take solo out of the game, you kill it. And NO, just because it’s an MMO does NOT mean everything HAS to be a group activity. Times have changed and people don’t have the ability to group and just want to finish basic quests so they can do RTQ’s and the like with a group later. It’s not that hard a concept.
The entire game is scaled, even the New Mod will be scaled... there is ZERO need to scale an area that "ONLY" guild members and Alliance members can go. How much time do you need to spend there... like, all day?? It is there solely for the purpose of building a stronghold. This is not part of the questing areas like Dread Ring or Avernus, it should be accessible to ALL Guild mates of LvL 50 and above. With the decline of the player base, which is affected my guild and alliance ( we lost 3 Guilds and 20 guild mates already) there just isn't enough players to earn Influence in a timely manner, and our last Mara failed also, only had 8 people show up. Making it harder will KILL all influence completely for MY guild. FACT!!!
As to your answer of Demonic HE"S.. wtf do you think? It is such a ridiculous question that it warrants no answer.
I'm a guild leader of a lvl20. We are moving our last structure to lvl10, then we are done, done, done with building.
We are both an active social guild, and people arrive initially for the boons and benefits. These are symbiotic and not mutually exclusive. Guilds need things to attract new members, but pitching social benefits is harder than pitching things like great boons and helpful vendors for things like masterworks.
Broadly scaled content is generally an awful concept in this game, and the last several weeks have exposed this in very obvious ways. Whether people want to admit it or not, this is primarily a progression and farming game. It's closer to building a puzzle than playing chess. It doesn't involve a ton of critical thinking, and the stakes are generally low. Puzzles are relaxing, fun, and generally easy to complete.
In a farming game (much like puzzles), the main currency is time. If gaining a certain reward takes too long, people check out. If gaining a reward is quick, people stay engaged. The key for farming games is not to scale up the small tasks (like completing an HE), but to scale up the big ones. Masterwork is a perfect example of this at the extreme scale. Campaigns are a more reasonable unit of progression scale. The Redeemed Citadel was an example of somewhere in the middle. It seemed to hold my guild's attention up until January.
When things are made harder, things slow down, and this has caused people to complain about the miniscule rewards at the end of basic dungeons (not named Frozen Heart). Turns out, steam rolling mobs and collecting rewards is a lot of fun for a large part of the player base! That's what this game has been for a looooong time, and I contend that is what has kept folks around. The juxtaposition of fast-paced gameplay with long-term progression goals seems to be this game's sauce.
NWO cannot well serve two masters and we are seeing that play out. If someone here is looking for a challenging MMORPG, they are looking in the wrong place.
The devs would be wise to keep SH content solo playable for all guildies who can reach around 20,000 ilvl and avoid broad scaling. As someone previously pointed out, the SH itself is a playground for guilds, and we use it for running events. If those mobs become too challenging we will have fewer tools for being creative as movement in the SH becomes more restricted. I also don't recommend increasing the GH beyond lvl20. It is challenging enough for most new guilds to make it to lvl20. Increasing that finish line is unnecessary. New kinds of guild structures that allow for more customization of benefits and abilities would be welcome. We'd like to build more.
An alliance msg board has been mentioned several times in this forum. That would also be welcome.
That's not the point of my idea. I don't think there sould be more availability, and I don't think we should be able to upgrade it faster. It's just that donations are still linked to outdated content. For example, it seems they're replacing resources from old sharandar with vallenhas. That's great.
My idea is just that we can make resources from current or more relevant campaigns useful with a simpe trade system while we can't completely rework the stronghold.
The problems are, for sure, more deep. But it's been said by devs that this rework will take a lot of work and could take some time to go live. I just thought of some practical solutions for the meantime, so we don't have to wait. Cause the gap keeps getting bigger. More content being released, older content becoming less relevant, people seeing no point in doing them.
Few years ago, we used to farm for those treasures in maps that had interesting items for player development. It's about bringing that feeling back. We don't need "more" resources (in my opinion, at least), but we need them to stay relevant as the game itself progresses.
I am not fan of quick progress either.. Cuz faster and easier you gain, then you reduce it's value. And the content is quickly ends and everone leave it.
Now I mentioned scaling and everyone instantly goes bOOoooo, And ignored rest of message.
When comes small and medium heroic encounters. I suggested use demonic heroic encounters scaling system.
Demonic Heroic Encounters added in Module 8: Underdark. These encounters scale with the number of players participating, with more players bringing increased difficulty and rewards. Demonic Heroic Encounters exist in Stronghold, Dread Ring, Icewind Pass, Dwarven Valley, and Well of Dragons. If 9 or more players complete an encounter a Demonic Overload Heroic encounter is spawned where a powerful demon must be defeated
In this case you can do them solo, and it would work as current heroic encounter. No changes. But once more players step in, it become harder but in same time you are gain better rewards. When you have 9 or more players, dificulity goes max, but also you gain highest rewards.
For big heroic encounters, I suggesting to add Master expedition runes mechanic as scaling option. Thats mean, players can choose how much increase difficulity by themself.
You want default( non scaled) fine, do it. But reward also will be default as current one. But if you want better reward, well you had to fight for it. And the best part, you can choose how much you want increase difficulity. It's optional, not demand to do on max dificulity.
So I don't simply give vauchers to guilds, I give them extra ways to get them. So players still have to grind out them anyways..
Note: This comment is to give some explanation why I picked demon encounter and master expedition scaling mechanics.. As for other who commented about my suggestions. Well I can simply answer . This is not debates. I am not interest in it.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
DEV pls update the Dragonflight gears and event in SH. I miss and love it so much. It was fun doing it with all the active alliance's members. Pretty pls.
As someone previously pointed out, the SH itself is a playground for guilds, and we use it for running events. If those mobs become too challenging we will have fewer tools for being creative as movement in the SH becomes more restricted.
I don't believe the game devs or the community managers either care or know what to do with strongholds anymore. This new mod now is proof positive of that: ANY structure that needs Feywild is completely screwed. The new currency is put in at a ONE TO ONE ratio?? Are you out of your damned minds???? You removed, without really NEEDING TO, a whole campaign with currency required for upgrading stronghold structures. THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This shortsightedness of yours means that all the growing guilds in our alliance can safely tuck in and wait it out until such time as you decide whether or not you actually CARE about strongholds anymore, because now they are up the creek without a padde. Nothing has been done to improve strongholds in YEARS. Seriously, did you even consider this when you were coming up with this awesome mod? /s In case you didn't get it, I'm not impressed.
I have read most of the posts here about how 'easy' it is with the "right" people.... that was just cringeworthy really. Elitist even. I do not believe that 3 years to get a stronghold up from nothing to lvl 20 is acceptable anymore. It wasn't acceptable to begin with. So much neglect and letting things slide over the past 5+ years since mod 8 introduced them that I truly believe either just junk them or FIX THE PROBLEM. I, as a guild leader and officer in my alliance, have resorted to doing weekly and monthly events just to get things flowing. We have a lot of great people here in our guilds too, it's just TOO MUCH! Streamline it, for the sake of all that's good. Stop breaking things that were actually working (seriously, why change the quickling, are you THAT bored????) and work on the stuff that is going to cause you to go the way of Wildstar. LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS! This is as 'constructive" as I can be considering how just PISSED I am right now. Truly, you wrote to us after Mod 16 aplogizing... yet here we are again, history repeating itself. You should be ashamed.
Comments
> And I as expected such answer.
> I asked have you done demonic heroic encounters. yet instead answering yes or no, or even I have done it loong time ago.
> You simply put wall of text with tale about your guild past.
>
> For most forum members it's become hard to talk without putting lines like:
> I play this game since it's start or since x module.
> I have founded and max out x quantity of guilds.
>
> Like that would be a matter. What was done in past, it's remain in past. The matter is what it is now.
>
>
> There are x3 main reasons why guilds are founded and why players join.
>
> 1) social active guild - such guilds predate Stronghold expansion(mod 7), its not matter if there is stronghold or not, they do content together. Cuz for them guild is place where gather same minded players.
>
> 2) boons, items and etc - in such type guilds, social activity is nearly dead stuff. Players join guild for boons, but never do content with their own guild or alliance.. They do them with other alliances or with pugs in general.
>
>
> 3) Storage purpose - name explain,, guild founded just for guild bank. No one bother to upgrade such guild.
>
>
> The type two become more common, cuz you no longer need be part of x guild or alliance to have chat with them or do content. The custom chat like > NW_Legit_community or ToMM/Zarial_completed. There you look for players to form parties.
>
> Some guilds still hold on type one, but for how long it will last?
>
> As long there is no decent guild/alliance content in stronghold, then guilds become less relevant.
>
> The current quests in stronghold mostly done solo.
> Dungeons? join in random q with pugs.
> Heroics? Average player walk over any minor heroics without any problems.
> Big heroics ? Giants, Twin devils( No Sypahy), and even beholders all is require some foot work, but even they bring no challenge.
> Kill 100 enemies in sttronghold?
>
> Fights which bring no challenge, gameplay which is mostly done solo. How many times you do till it's become boring?
>
> My first 5 mmorpg games where eastern ones, so for me heavy grind in not new, not mentioned repeatable grinding.
> But at least in there it was more fun and more content done as guild, not solo.
I can see you didn’t read or comprehend what I said.
Yes demon heroic done multiple times, in fact on ANY map it scales harder with more people.
You have a set idea of what a guild is.
For MY Alliance is a place to find help for content and do RTQ or the like.
Stronghold content needs refreshed, but not made harder or scaled. We need a place to check numbers unscaled with out instance worries and with people there to help.
The T1 heroics SHOULD be able to be done solo by a level 80. PERIOD. That’s what they were made for. Not everyone has time to do ALL content in a group. If it’s made into that
PEOPLE WONT PLAY.
You take solo out of the game, you kill it. And NO, just because it’s an MMO does NOT mean everything HAS to be a group activity.
Times have changed and people don’t have the ability to group and just want to finish basic quests so they can do RTQ’s and the like with a group later.
It’s not that hard a concept.
As to your answer of Demonic HE"S.. wtf do you think? It is such a ridiculous question that it warrants no answer.
We are both an active social guild, and people arrive initially for the boons and benefits. These are symbiotic and not mutually exclusive. Guilds need things to attract new members, but pitching social benefits is harder than pitching things like great boons and helpful vendors for things like masterworks.
Broadly scaled content is generally an awful concept in this game, and the last several weeks have exposed this in very obvious ways. Whether people want to admit it or not, this is primarily a progression and farming game. It's closer to building a puzzle than playing chess. It doesn't involve a ton of critical thinking, and the stakes are generally low. Puzzles are relaxing, fun, and generally easy to complete.
In a farming game (much like puzzles), the main currency is time. If gaining a certain reward takes too long, people check out. If gaining a reward is quick, people stay engaged. The key for farming games is not to scale up the small tasks (like completing an HE), but to scale up the big ones. Masterwork is a perfect example of this at the extreme scale. Campaigns are a more reasonable unit of progression scale. The Redeemed Citadel was an example of somewhere in the middle. It seemed to hold my guild's attention up until January.
When things are made harder, things slow down, and this has caused people to complain about the miniscule rewards at the end of basic dungeons (not named Frozen Heart). Turns out, steam rolling mobs and collecting rewards is a lot of fun for a large part of the player base! That's what this game has been for a looooong time, and I contend that is what has kept folks around. The juxtaposition of fast-paced gameplay with long-term progression goals seems to be this game's sauce.
NWO cannot well serve two masters and we are seeing that play out. If someone here is looking for a challenging MMORPG, they are looking in the wrong place.
The devs would be wise to keep SH content solo playable for all guildies who can reach around 20,000 ilvl and avoid broad scaling. As someone previously pointed out, the SH itself is a playground for guilds, and we use it for running events. If those mobs become too challenging we will have fewer tools for being creative as movement in the SH becomes more restricted. I also don't recommend increasing the GH beyond lvl20. It is challenging enough for most new guilds to make it to lvl20. Increasing that finish line is unnecessary. New kinds of guild structures that allow for more customization of benefits and abilities would be welcome. We'd like to build more.
An alliance msg board has been mentioned several times in this forum. That would also be welcome.
Now I mentioned scaling and everyone instantly goes bOOoooo, And ignored rest of message.
When comes small and medium heroic encounters. I suggested use demonic heroic encounters scaling system.
In this case you can do them solo, and it would work as current heroic encounter. No changes.
But once more players step in, it become harder but in same time you are gain better rewards.
When you have 9 or more players, dificulity goes max, but also you gain highest rewards.
For big heroic encounters, I suggesting to add Master expedition runes mechanic as scaling option.
Thats mean, players can choose how much increase difficulity by themself.
You want default( non scaled) fine, do it. But reward also will be default as current one.
But if you want better reward, well you had to fight for it. And the best part, you can choose how much you want increase difficulity. It's optional, not demand to do on max dificulity.
So I don't simply give vauchers to guilds, I give them extra ways to get them.
So players still have to grind out them anyways..
Note: This comment is to give some explanation why I picked demon encounter and master expedition scaling mechanics.. As for other who commented about my suggestions. Well I can simply answer . This is not debates. I am not interest in it.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
An exemple of what a playground means :P
(sorry for all the french gibberish :P)
I have read most of the posts here about how 'easy' it is with the "right" people.... that was just cringeworthy really. Elitist even. I do not believe that 3 years to get a stronghold up from nothing to lvl 20 is acceptable anymore. It wasn't acceptable to begin with. So much neglect and letting things slide over the past 5+ years since mod 8 introduced them that I truly believe either just junk them or FIX THE PROBLEM. I, as a guild leader and officer in my alliance, have resorted to doing weekly and monthly events just to get things flowing. We have a lot of great people here in our guilds too, it's just TOO MUCH! Streamline it, for the sake of all that's good. Stop breaking things that were actually working (seriously, why change the quickling, are you THAT bored????) and work on the stuff that is going to cause you to go the way of Wildstar. LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS! This is as 'constructive" as I can be considering how just PISSED I am right now. Truly, you wrote to us after Mod 16 aplogizing... yet here we are again, history repeating itself. You should be ashamed.